215 bodies possibly found

According to ground search radar, there might be as many as 215 bodies if not more buried at the Kamloops Residential School.
The questions not being asked or answered anywhere on MSM, is are all of these bodies a surprise find, if not, how many were already known about, was their a pandemic at the time that forced the hasty burial? Just what was the cause of all these deaths?
All I hear about is these bodies being found as if this is a mass grave similiar to those found in Serbia or Syria due many times to the slaughter of unarmed minorities and I'm pretty sure this is not the case.
If this is a case of genocide, whether negligent or intentional, then heads should roll, but media is again just hyping numbers, not causes.
Just looking for some answers, not fanning the flames.
John

Left wing media was real quick to jump on the mass burial site bandwagon. I've seen reports from a band chief that specify that it was in fact not a mass burial grave. Still bad news regardless.

Yes the terminology was purposely used to inflame the rhetoric.

It was clarified by an Indigenous leader that they are 'unmarked' graves sites, to bury children that died at the school from illness, diseases, accidental and possibly nefarious means.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Yes the terminology was purposely used to inflame the rhetoric.

It was clarified by an Indigenous leader that they are 'unmarked' graves sites, to bury children that died at the school from illness, diseases, accidental and possibly nefarious means.

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Yes, but let’s see if their rhetoric can top the read on a Papal Bull which was issued by Pope Alexander VI in 1493 to justify the oversight of discovered lands by Christian European:

“Should the original occupants insist on claiming that the land is theirs, the ‘discoverer’ can label the occupants’ way of being on the land inadequate according to European standards. This ideology supported the dehumanization of those living on the land and their dispossession, murder, and forced assimilation. The Doctrine fueled white supremacy insofar as white European settlers claimed they were instruments of divine design and possessed cultural superiority.”

You don’t stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

Atrocities have been committed for eons and orphanages all throughout Europe and the world were always bad very bad. Even today the ball drops often with CAS. Who is really to blame, I'm not nor will I accept the blame. It's something that happened and we can only learn from it but we cannot blame the people of today.

I have Irish blood the Irish did much of the building of the Rideau Canal and many died they were treated like garbage and often were kicked into the river if they died while working so where is my apology?

We can continue this blame game or we can reconcile but if anyone thinks I should pay the price sorry I am not.

Atrocities have been committed farther back then 1000 years, by all people on this earth.

Soon the organized worldwide pedophile atrocities will be revealed. This is not an isolated incident.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npaV5c7WvpY

I was driving today and the scan picked up CBC talking about it, listened for about 15 minutes to see what they would say... Justin Trudeau making huge promises, white privilege and horror stories.... just what you would expect. The school was open before 1900 from what I heard and had over 500 students often , that was before Penicillin, Polio vaccine and things like the Spanish flu, scarlet fever and no antibiotics come to mind, abuse, neglect, accidents, violence also come to mind .... I am sadly sure they are in there to in the 3/4 of a century.

Will it be a fact finder and evidence based or rhetoric and distortion, seems trending toward the second. This is the 21st century, time to throw the race based sh** in the garbage! There are those that need help, sounds like little of that but lots of money for bureaucracies, chiefs and government workers though, there are lots of handicapped and others of all races that need help yet this gov't wants to divide people up over the money. Just look at the millions they just announced for black owned businesses, US vs Them, distortion, fear, anger, hatred... Liberal's must be happy they have spin room that might get them votes.

Maybe they can get clean water soon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

Atrocities have been committed for eons and orphanages all throughout Europe and the world were always bad very bad. Even today the ball drops often with CAS. Who is really to blame, I'm not nor will I accept the blame. It's something that happened and we can only learn from it but we cannot blame the people of today.

I have Irish blood the Irish did much of the building of the Rideau Canal and many died they were treated like garbage and often were kicked into the river if they died while working so where is my apology?

We can continue this blame game or we can reconcile but if anyone thinks I should pay the price sorry I am not.

Atrocities have been committed farther back then 1000 years, by all people on this earth.

---

Unfortunately GW, you and I and everyone (who works and pays taxes) will be paying whether you agree with it or not.

I’d like to see the Catholic Church pay for their sins, and if they don’t have the money in Canada there’s plenty of it in Rome.

Who are/were the idiots in government that oversaw this ?? Most of them are dead of course, but they and their successors were well paid for it and well pensioned later. It’s infuriating.

It remains to be seen what killed those kids. At the end of the 19th century,there was the Spanish Influenza pandemic that killed millions and the early 20th century where Typhoid,Typhus,Tuberculosis and Polio killed hundreds of thousands more in Canada. The left wing media would have us believe that every one of those kids were murdered by Nuns and Priests. It's quite possible that there may be some cases of that,but,that,too,will remain to be proven.

It wouldn't matter now, even if some diseased did kill them and they were buried that way it will be considered the same thing.

People all need to move on from this. We need to learn from the pass and we are but move on in life.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

It remains to be seen what killed those kids. At the end of the 19th century,there was the Spanish Influenza pandemic that killed millions and the early 20th century where Typhoid,Typhus,Tuberculosis and Polio killed hundreds of thousands more in Canada. The left wing media would have us believe that every one of those kids were murdered by Nuns and Priests. It's quite possible that there may be some cases of that,but,that,too,will remain to be proven.

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

It wouldn't matter now, even if some diseased did kill them and they were buried that way it will be considered the same thing.

People all need to move on from this. We need to learn from the pass and we are but move on in life.

---

It really doesn’t matter what these youth succumb to.. The crime, in this case, was making an effort to assimilate them, by cutting them off from their families and the norms of their indigenous culture in order to convert them to a superior white European culture. For all intent and purpose they were being subject to a form of conversion therapy. In today’s world when conversion type therapy is aimed at members of the .LGBTQ2 community .They are toying with reforms of such conversion therapies being subject to the criminal code..

You don’t stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

None of us were around when this assimilation started and consequently, we don't know all the reasons it was being done. History suggests there many cases where children were starving, were mistreated in their homes, suffered diseases that went untreated all while in their homes. Back in the day their lifespan was something like 40 years of age? The original intent of removing them from this environment for their own protection was likely the best solution at the time but obviously the situation deteriorated once in the schools. It is for this that the government and churches of the day should be held accountable. The question is how??
Like others have said I don't feel one bit responsible for this history and I will not apologize nor do I want todays government apologizing on my behalf. Regardless of the outcome of this story, we'll still be apologizing 100 years from now for percieved land grabs, for the reserve system, for their poor water etc etc etc.

Pretty damning report.

Upon taking the job, Bryce began (in his words) the “systematic collection of health statistics of the several hundred Indian bands scattered over Canada.”1 In 1907, Bryce released a report drawing attention to the fact that, according to his surveys, roughly one-quarter of all Indigenous children attending residential schools had died from tuberculosis: “of a total of 1537 pupils reported upon nearly 25 per cent are dead, of one school with an absolutely accurate statement, 69 per cent of ex-pupils are dead, and that everywhere the almost invariable cause of death given is tuberculosis.”2,3

Bryce’s report named poor ventilation and poor standards of care from school officials as the primary cause of deaths as opposed to the racial susceptibility hypothesis rather popular at the time. Put simply, Bryce “exposed the genocidal practices of government-sanctioned residential schools, where healthy Indigenous children were purposefully exposed to children infected with TB, spreading the disease through the school population.”4

Importantly, it was not only the Canadian government but the broader population that learned of Bryce’s

Which the govt of the time also ignored. And further ordered him to stop.

https://www.cmaj.ca/content/192/9/E223

Do I feel responsible?
No

Just as I don’t feel responsible for a few thousand dead students in Tiananmen Square.

But with respect to FNs and residential schools. Since when have any of us, been ok with forcibly taking children from their homes, and treating them as less than human..

https://i.imgur.com/TDpUk6e.jpg

The snowflakes are sure bent out of shape today..the Pope declined to apologize. Now they don't know what to do HaHa.

It's been done in the past and it's been accepted. The call to do it again is just a diversionary tactic to take away from the fact this government after 8 yrs has none little to nothing to achieve the promises made for reconciliation. The Village Idiot, by blaming the church, is only trying to 'deflect' from his dismal performance.


facts:

Quote:

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What then about the pope? In 2009, after years of sincere dialogue between Catholic bishops in Canada and Indigenous representatives, Pope Benedict XVI received a delegation at the Vatican. It was led by Phil Fontaine, then-national chief of the Assembly of First Nations. It was a historic moment of contrition, sorrow, reconciliation and healing. Fontaine’s address on that occasion is one of the most poignant and illuminating on the relationship between the Catholic Church and the Indigenous peoples of Canada.

At the time, it was considered the “final piece” of a nearly 20-year process of reconciliation that “closed the book,” in the words of Fontaine. So all the parties were confident that a good measure of healing had taken place: apologies were offered, and apologies were accepted.

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in fact this specific school:

Quote:

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The various religious orders that ran the schools also issued apologies. The Missionary Oblates of Mary Immaculate, which ran the Kamloops Indian Residential School, included this in their detailed four-page apology, which was issued in 1991:

“We apologize for the part we played in the cultural, ethnic, linguistic and religious imperialism that was part of the mentality with which the peoples of Europe first met the Aboriginal peoples and which consistently has lurked behind the way the Native peoples of Canada have been treated by civil governments and by the churches.”

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Quote:

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Then there are religious orders, like the Oblates and the Jesuits — who also issued an apology to Indigenous peoples in 1991 — which are not territorial. All of the dioceses that had residential schools and the religious orders involved apologized decades ago, and those expressions have been renewed in recent days.

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https://nationalpost.com/opinion/ray...ential-schools

Yes, what Bryce implied was the schools were structurally hell holes, which resulted in the relentless spread of diseases. Aside from that fact, they were institutions of indoctrination, in which indigenous children were isolate from their own cultures, in order to convert them into the mind set of a superior white European culture. To impose their will upon these children the Canadian government used the Indian Act to remove them from their indigenous culture and force them into these institutions, to impose upon them what can only be viewed as a form of cultural genocide. All those unmarked graves around the Kamloops school simply provide evidence of the unfeeling extent to which these atrocities were carried out. The founding fathers believing, the only hope they had of assimilate the indigenous peoples was to focus upon their children in isolation from the indigenous culture, into which they were born. In the world of today, what they attempt to do was criminal, and serves as an example of the deprivation of human rights, with respect to this lands indigenous people.

You don’t stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

Quote:

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

Atrocities have been committed for eons and orphanages all throughout Europe and the world were always bad very bad. Even today the ball drops often with CAS. Who is really to blame, I'm not nor will I accept the blame. It's something that happened and we can only learn from it but we cannot blame the people of today.

I have Irish blood the Irish did much of the building of the Rideau Canal and many died they were treated like garbage and often were kicked into the river if they died while working so where is my apology?

We can continue this blame game or we can reconcile but if anyone thinks I should pay the price sorry I am not.

Atrocities have been committed farther back then 1000 years, by all people on this earth.

---

Well said. The MSM unnecessarily inflames racial/ethnic tensions because as they say "if it bleeds, it leads"

My take, based on the tone of all the reporting, is just more anti-Christian rhetoric. It's been quite trendy to blame Christianity (and by association, white males) for all the evils in the world for many years now.

There is a giant tornado of misinformation circling around everyone's head and no one corrects it.

"What about the crusades, huh?! " -- They were a response to 100's of years of Jihad being waged in Europe. Raping, theft and enslaving young men in the Muslim armies (which is why their numbers were so high)

"What about Columbus?! He committed mass genocide!" -- Columbus was a devout Catholic who led his men in prayer and gave explicit instructions to not harm the native people's they came into contact with. Unfortunately they didn't always listen, but he in no way led a genocidal expedition based on seething racial hatred. The concept of race didn't really even exist back then. Columbus & Cortes basically created an entire new race of people, called Latinos, who are some of the most devoutly religious to this day.

"What about slavery?!" -- Care to be more specific? Are you referring to Muslim pirates who ransacked the Coasts of Southern Europe for centuries & enslaved local inhabitants? That's why the Marines were invented...to combat these scumbags. Or do you mean the caste system in India, which is a sickening combination of usury & biological determinism that people can never escape from, no matter how hard they work? Do you mean the Irish indentured servants, who worked under dreadful conditions and died of heat stroke. Do you mean the Eastern Europeans (Slavs), where the word slave actually comes from? Are you referring to child sex trafficking and sex slaves all throughout Asia and Africa? Perhaps you mean the Islamic slave trade, where African men were routinely castrated & killed (which is why there are so few blacks in the middle East today). Wait a second, I think you must be referring to the enslaving of other indigenous tribes here in North America. Their treatment of rival tribe members was extremely brutal.

Oh you mean the Atlantic slave trade, which wasn't a crime of racism or religion, but rather a crime of opportunity. A slave trade enabled by tribe leaders selling their current slaves from rival tribes to the Europeans. This of course often financed by wealthy Jewish merchants forever & conveniently remaining guilt-free in the background to this day. Why the hyper-focus on this one chapter in the history of human slavery? Because it was mainly perpetuated by European Christians? Guess what...that is the exact same group of people who ended slavery in the West as well. You're welcome!

In my opinion, it's this exact same rhetoric that possesses people to remove every John A. Macdonald statue, rename Universities, change street names, etc. What will this actually achieve, except a temporary satiation of the woke mob before they move on to their next target?

Why does it always only go in one direction, with one identifiable group being punished by having their culture erased for the sins of their past?
Do we do this to Turkey? The Ottoman empire was one of the largest and most brutal in history. Do we say to them they must be shamed and have their culture erased? No we don't. Trudeau passes a bill designed solely to protect Muslims from criticism and hurt feelings.

Any slight questioning or criticism is treated as a hate crime and investigated. Meanwhile a statue of the virgin Mary was vandalized and decapitated at a Toronto church last summer and Trudeau says he "stands with the Lebanese community" LOL. No mention of Christianity or Christian persecution.

Madness.

Anyhow, I'll end the rant with a great book recommendation.
War Before Civilization: The Myth of The Peaceful Savage -- https://www.amazon.ca/War-before-Civ.../dp/0195119126

Quote:

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

Atrocities have been committed for eons and orphanages all throughout Europe and the world were always bad very bad. Even today the ball drops often with CAS. Who is really to blame, I'm not nor will I accept the blame. It's something that happened and we can only learn from it but we cannot blame the people of today.

I have Irish blood the Irish did much of the building of the Rideau Canal and many died they were treated like garbage and often were kicked into the river if they died while working so where is my apology?

We can continue this blame game or we can reconcile but if anyone thinks I should pay the price sorry I am not.

Atrocities have been committed farther back then 1000 years, by all people on this earth.

---

Amen! Let’s stop blaming people from specific backgrounds who had nothing to do with these atrocities that have happened in the past. We definitely have to acknowledge what happened and reconcile, learn from the past and move on to make a better society for everyone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smitty55

Left wing media was real quick to jump on the mass burial site bandwagon. I've seen reports from a band chief that specify that it was in fact not a mass burial grave. Still bad news regardless.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Yes the terminology was purposely used to inflame the rhetoric.

It was clarified by an Indigenous leader that they are 'unmarked' graves sites, to bury children that died at the school from illness, diseases, accidental and possibly nefarious means.

---

This article gives a more unbiased report about how this story broke. The indigenous leaders never referred to this as a mass grave, and were aware that students were buried in unmarked graves.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/ter...ept-forgetting

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

It really doesn’t matter what these youth succumb to.. The crime, in this case, was making an effort to assimilate them, by cutting them off from their families and the norms of their indigenous culture in order to convert them to a superior white European culture. For all intent and purpose they were being subject to a form of conversion therapy. In today’s world when conversion type therapy is aimed at members of the .LGBTQ2 community .They are toying with reforms of such conversion therapies being subject to the criminal code..

You don’t stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

---

The crime, in this case, was making an effort to assimilate them, by cutting them off from their families and the norms of their indigenous culture in order to convert them to a superior white European culture. -- This was a complex situation that requires a lengthy & nuanced discussion, with valid points for 'both sides'. My argument here is that it was not as one-sided and malicious as most people seem to think. There was a benevolence, however misguided at the time & imperceptible by our current 20/20 hindsight to help these people.

For all intent and purpose they were being subject to a form of conversion therapy. In today’s world when conversion type therapy is aimed at members of the .LGBTQ2 community .They are toying with reforms of such conversion therapies being subject to the criminal code.. -- The jury is still out on this one. There are many cases of ex-gays 'coming back in' so to speak. Their testimonies are often glossed over or discarded because it doesn't fit the narrative. I would argue the LGBTQXYZ+ juggernaut (itself not a 'community' in any real sense, and especially threatened now by the focus on the T's) is being imposed on us at every turn: public schools flying the rainbow flag, the increasing sexualization of young children, every single corporation scrambling to change it's logo to include a rainbow, the church being bullied into proclaiming sodomy is the greatest virtue, etc. They are in no way 'oppressed' today.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bushwhacker

The crime, in this case, was making an effort to assimilate them, by cutting them off from their families and the norms of their indigenous culture in order to convert them to a superior white European culture. -- This was a complex situation that requires a lengthy & nuanced discussion, with valid points for 'both sides'. My argument here is that it was not as one-sided and malicious as most people seem to think. There was a benevolence, however misguided at the time & imperceptible by our current 20/20 hindsight to help these people.

For all intent and purpose they were being subject to a form of conversion therapy. In today’s world when conversion type therapy is aimed at members of the .LGBTQ2 community .They are toying with reforms of such conversion therapies being subject to the criminal code.. -- The jury is still out on this one. There are many cases of ex-gays 'coming back in' so to speak. Their testimonies are often glossed over or discarded because it doesn't fit the narrative. I would argue the LGBTQXYZ+ juggernaut (itself not a 'community' in any real sense, and especially threatened now by the focus on the T's) is being imposed on us at every turn: public schools flying the rainbow flag, the increasing sexualization of young children, every single corporation scrambling to change it's logo to include a rainbow, the church being bullied into proclaiming sodomy is the greatest virtue, etc. They are in no way 'oppressed' today.

---

“My argument here is that it was not as one-sided and malicious as most people seem to think. There was a benevolence, however misguided at the time & imperceptible by our current 20/20 hindsight to help these people”.

In the beginning it may not have been one-sided and malicious coming from loyalist stock my forefathers were probably appreciative of the indigenous people helping them eke out an existence in a new land after being driven out of their settlements in the south following the American Revolution, at the time the Royal Proclamation of 1763 was still up held by the presence of British governors and regulators. At some point, these safeguards began to slip away as more colonists arrive, and finally fell by the way side after the War of 1812, when the British fundamentally abandon their obligation to indigenous people and American exploitation west began. Shortly there after came the formation of Canada, and the eventual race to the west coast. At that point the indigenous people were proving more of a hindrance then a help. The American simply rode rough-shod over them. We by contrast did take a more benevolent approach choosing a pathway to assimilate them rather then simply massacre them. Apparent our approach to genocide prove to be much more of a gentler affair. . . . . .

You don’t stop hunting because you grow old.. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

“My argument here is that it was not as one-sided and malicious as most people seem to think. There was a benevolence, however misguided at the time & imperceptible by our current 20/20 hindsight to help these people”.

In the beginning it may not have been one-sided and malicious coming from loyalist stock my forefathers were probably appreciative of the indigenous people helping them eke out an existence in a new land after being driven out of their settlements in the south following the American Revolution, at the time the Royal Proclamation of 1763 was still up held by the presence of British governors and regulators. At some point, these safeguards began to slip away as more colonists arrive, and finally fell by the way side after the War of 1812, when the British fundamentally abandon their obligation to indigenous people and American exploitation west began. Shortly there after came the formation of Canada, and the eventual race to the west coast. At that point the indigenous people were proving more of a hindrance then a help. The American simply rode rough-shod over them. We by contrast did take a more benevolent approach choosing a pathway to assimilate them rather then simply massacre them. Apparent our approach to genocide prove to be much more of a gentler affair. . . . . .

You don’t stop hunting because you grow old.. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

---

Very well said.

Further point: In what sense are they natives if they originally came from Asia many many years ago? Just because there was a certain group of people within a geographical boundary does not automatically constitute a country (something they had no concept of at the time). And as you mentioned, the 'white man' was displaced from his own homeland due to tyranny & corruption.

This does not excuse the moral failings of our ancestors for crimes committed against them. But it was a 2 way street. And you raise an excellent point, that there is often more common ground between two people of humble means (regardless of race) than those of the same race but a radically different class.

Thomas Sowell's "Black Rednecks & White Liberals" and Charles Murray's "Coming Apart" cover this type of thing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sawbill

None of us were around when this assimilation started and consequently, we don't know all the reasons it was being done. History suggests there many cases where children were starving, were mistreated in their homes, suffered diseases that went untreated all while in their homes. Back in the day their lifespan was something like 40 years of age? The original intent of removing them from this environment for their own protection was likely the best solution at the time but obviously the situation deteriorated once in the schools. It is for this that the government and churches of the day should be held accountable. The question is how??
Like others have said I don't feel one bit responsible for this history and I will not apologize nor do I want todays government apologizing on my behalf. Regardless of the outcome of this story, we'll still be apologizing 100 years from now for percieved land grabs, for the reserve system, for their poor water etc etc etc.

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"Regardless of the outcome of this story, we'll still be apologizing 100 years from now for percieved land grabs, for the reserve system, for their poor water etc etc etc."

Good point Sawbill. And anyone who spent time on a reserve can attest, there is lots of corruption with the chiefs.
I got to know a lot of folks down in 6 nations territory Caledonia. Pretty wild stuff.

We should be helping them to be more self sufficient. But they already receive plenty of perks. Problem is lots of the aid never makes its way to where it should go.

All in all-this topic seems a diversion attempt,to steer the public away from real issues-economy, lack of leadership in the country ,no progress with COVID,You name it.
It is indeed a sad affair,and not something we should be proud of.

At the other hand-we can not judge backwards,and apply today's laws to a 100 year old chapter in history, because it just does not work that way.
Never did. One of the key cornerstones of the Judicial System.

If we want to take away the emotions,and be a littlebit on "wild "side(and contemplating that there was no intend on killing those poor kids-which was in a way even confirmed with certain Chiefs).........we may dare to make a notion:at the time of the conception of this practice,it may very well was a novelty and a progressive thing.

BEFORE anyone throw rock at me-PLEASE read the history(not just CBC or CNN) AND realize, 100 year ago,there was a different world,where MANY MANY nations were opresssed,wiped out ,forcibly assimliated or simply relocated against their will.
Therefore judging and comparing the residential school system to today's standards is misleading at best.

Now-for all the bleeding hearts ,lets start a motion: lets ask the Moors why they destroyed half of Spain ,and ruled mercilessly AND to THEIR culture for hunders of years,Mongols to apologize for ransacking Europe 800 years ago,lets ask the Spanish to apoligoze for wiping out all the Caribbean natives(You know-there was a great nation-called Tainos)lets see what Russia will do to appease all the Siberaian natives they wiped out, or the Caucasians(Chircassians they were called-where are they now?),see why the Spanish had so easily SOO many local native allies agains the Aztecs(because the Aztecs were wiping out every other nation around them ),The Taranaki from New Zealand for wiping out the Moriori nation, or to stay locally-lets ask the Iroquois to apologize for destroying the great Huron Nation(You know-mid 1600-s)...
There is TONS of examples,and if one knows the history well enough,will understand.And will not jump on a sad bandwagon.

You see,chapeters of history are like drawers-whoever thinks he /she will find something in it,pulls one out,and starts to stir things in it, TO HIS/HER own benefit.
Especially nowadays,with all them snowflakes hate just about every piece of our history .

Peace be with the kids.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gbk

All in all-this topic seems a diversion attempt,to steer the public away from real issues-economy, lack of leadership in the country ,no progress with COVID,You name it.
It is indeed a sad affair,and not something we should be proud of.

At the other hand-we can not judge backwards,and apply today's laws to a 100 year old chapter in history, because it just does not work that way.
Never did. One of the key cornerstones of the Judicial System.

If we want to take away the emotions,and be a littlebit on "wild "side(and contemplating that there was no intend on killing those poor kids-which was in a way even confirmed with certain Chiefs).........we may dare to make a notion:at the time of the conception of this practice,it may very well was a novelty and a progressive thing.

BEFORE anyone throw rock at me-PLEASE read the history(not just CBC or CNN) AND realize, 100 year ago,there was a different world,where MANY MANY nations were opresssed,wiped out ,forcibly assimliated or simply relocated against their will.
Therefore judging and comparing the residential school system to today's standards is misleading at best.

Now-for all the bleeding hearts ,lets start a motion: lets ask the Moors why they destroyed half of Spain ,and ruled mercilessly AND to THEIR culture for hunders of years,Mongols to apologize for ransacking Europe 800 years ago,lets ask the Spanish to apoligoze for wiping out all the Caribbean natives(You know-there was a great nation-called Tainos)lets see what Russia will do to appease all the Siberaian natives they wiped out, or the Caucasians(Chircassians they were called-where are they now?),see why the Spanish had so easily SOO many local native allies agains the Aztecs(because the Aztecs were wiping out every other nation around them )or to stay locally-lets ask the Iroquois to apologize for destroying the great Huron Nation(You know-mid 1600-s)...
There is TONS of examples,and if one knows the history well enough,will understand.And will not jump on a sad bandwagon.

You see,chapeters of history are like drawers-whoever thinks he /she will find something in it,pulls one out,and starts to stir things in it, TO HIS/HER own benefit.
Especially nowadays,with all them snowflakes hate just about every piece of our history .

Peace be with the kids.

---

While the roots of the residential school system go back more than 100 years the last of these schools did not close until 1996 a mere 25 years ago and there were still many operating in the 70s and 80s. So while our ancestors may have started the system, the Church/Government perpetuated the system until not that long ago - much less than 100 years. In fact i would hazard a guess that many on this forum where were alive and past the age of majority when some of this went down - I know I was.

I know many say "i had no part in it" and feel no need to make reparations or apologize. For the most i understand and agree but at some level the electorate is responsible for the actions of the sitting government. So for some of those years when i voted there was a government in place doing this. I was totally ignorant at the time about what was happening but as the saying goes ignorance is no excuse. So even though i really had nothing to do with it i still feel some responsibility for the harm done in my lifetime as a voting adult.

S8472. We don’t always agree, but well said, good post.

“All in all-this topic seems a diversion attempt,to steer the public away from real issues-economy, lack of leadership in the country ,no progress with COVID,You name it.“

Squirrel.
Yes and should be more. Like one a month until we vote.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by glen

“All in all-this topic seems a diversion attempt,to steer the public away from real issues-economy, lack of leadership in the country ,no progress with COVID,You name it.“

Squirrel.
Yes and should be more. Like one a month until we vote.

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They always need a distraction, SNC needed a distraction, WE Charity and so many lies and spending, PPE, COVID vaccines etc.... here is an interesting quote from one news media though...

" From 1969 until 1978, control and maintenance of residential schools was in the hands the federal government of Canada.

The Liberal Party was the ruling government of Canada from 1968 to 1979. The prime minister throughout this eleven-year period was Pierre Trudeau."



The Truth and Reconciliation commission and report has brought alot of this out in the open but since it was Harper's govt that created it that will mostly be ignored by the media you can bet, it's final report is rather sad in regards to the Children.
https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia....ential-schools

Indian Act (1876), the government was required to provide Indigenous youth with an education and to assimilate them into Canadian society.
...
Nutritional deficiencies and overcrowding led to regular outbreaks of diseases at the schools. Tuberculosis and influenza were the major killers, but students were also affected by outbreaks of smallpox, measles, typhoid, diphtheria, pneumonia and whooping cough. In the winter of 1926–27, for example, 13 children died from a combination of measles and whooping cough at the Lytton school.



The report goes into the failures and there are many from goals, funding and so much more.

The final report of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, published in 2015, outlined several “undeniable” conclusions about the system:

• First, the federal government failed to set clear goals and standards for education at the residential schools.
• Second, the curriculum at residential schools was essentially an elementary curriculum, which reflected a belief that Indigenous people were intellectually inferior.
• Third, the government did not develop or implement a policy regarding teacher qualification.
• Fourth, the teaching staff was, in general, underqualified, overworked and poorly paid.
• Fifth, the curriculum (which emphasized the “four Rs” — reading, writing, arithmetic and religion) was not only basic but also largely irrelevant to the students’ needs, experiences or interests.
• Sixth, students left school without the skills they needed to either succeed in their home communities or in the “broader labour market.” Moreover, many of them left without completing their education.

In short, the education and vocational training provided by residential schools was inadequate.


Looking at the condition of the reserves in many areas, the fact the Liberal's undid the disclosure/accountability of the chiefs and reserves on their spending that Harper put in place and that clean water has got little action but billions can be sent elsewhere in the world..... like Seniors, Vets, Disabled it seems they aren't anything but votes and photo ops to the current gov't. It is time to throw out the Indian Act and race based segregation/reserves and those that need help get it instead of chiefs and bureaucrats just getting huge pays.


Looking back at the history of Canada before it was Canada you can see massacres, slavery and wars just like any other part of the world. Slavery for example, Wiki is a simple and often questionable source but even they recognize this much.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Canada

"First Nations owned or traded in slaves, an institution that had existed for centuries or longer among certain groups. Shawnee, Potawatomi, and other western tribes imported slaves from Ohio and Kentucky and sold or gifted them to alliesand Canadian settlers. Mohawk Chief Thayendenaga (a.k.a.Joseph Brant) used blacks he had captured during the American Revolution to build Brant House at Burlington Beach and a second home near Brantford. In all, Brant owned about forty black slaves."

Think the Mohawks will make an apology and reparations? An apology when you had nothing to do with it is a nice gesture but in reality an empty one and a request for payments after so much time is just greed unless it has a specific purpose to actually help, think lotto winners that end up worse off, friendless and often in legal trouble or substance abusing.

They've played the game for a long time; bring up indigenous issues and the Fed's will give them 'reparations' and an apology.

Yes 'Dad' played a big role in trying to assimilate the Natives...good article in the Nat post under the title:

Turning a blind eye to Pierre Trudeau's unseemly Indigenous assimilation plan

Quote:

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There is almost exactly a century separating the governments of Sir John A. Macdonald and Pierre E. Trudeau, but not much difference in their approach to Indigenous issues.

Trudeau’s “Statement of the Government of Canada on Indian Policy, 1969” didn’t propose separating Indigenous children from their parents and isolating them in schools where they could be abused by nuns and priests, but the strategy was the same: the best way to handle the Indian “problem” was to get rid of the idea of being “Indian” in the first place. Better to turn them into regular old Canadians like the rest of us. As Trudeau saw it, assimilation as a strategy was far from dead, it just needed updating.

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Quote:

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The proposal, known as the 1969 White Paper, was launched by one of Trudeau’s ambitious young cabinet up-and-comers, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development Jean Chrétien. It was a monumental disaster. You can date today’s activism to the backlash generated by Trudeau and Chrétien. It makes educational reading for anyone wondering why so little progress was made between 1867 and 1969 — or today for that matter — or who thinks carting off a few statues and renaming some schools is a solution to anything.

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Quote:

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Trudeau’s remedy was far-reaching. Indigenous people would lose their special status and be treated no different than other Canadians. Chrétien’s ministry would disappear, along with the Indian Act. Treaties would be eliminated and responsibility for Indian affairs would be shifted to the provinces, along with temporary financing that would eventually decline “as a matter of principle.”

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Quote:

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The view taken by Trudeau, he of the “Just Society” and later the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, was that “equality” meant everyone should be governed by the same laws. Canada was no place for one set of rules for some people, and another set for others. That concept might have fit well enough with Trudeau’s own ideas of Canada as a unified country of English and French, but it was anathema to an Indigenous population whose separate identity was fundamental to their concept of themselves.
Trudeau’s document was withdrawn a year later. Far from contrite, he delivered one of his patented insults: “We’ll keep them in the ghetto as long as they want,” he shrugged. If Sir John A. Macdonald is to be condemned, certainly Trudeau and Chrétien deserve no less, given they had an additional century of history and experience to draw on, and the knowledge, learning and insight that presumably entailed. Macdonald acted on the best advice available at the time, as did those who followed him. His thinking was rooted in 19th century cultural mores. What was Trudeau’s excuse?

---

Good to be reminded who and what political party was at the root of the problems with the indigenous people. With this chit storm swirling and an election coming this kind of article puts it all into perspective.

read more: https://nationalpost.com/opinion/kel...imilation-plan

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Species8472

While the roots of the residential school system go back more than 100 years the last of these schools did not close until 1996 a mere 25 years ago and there were still many operating in the 70s and 80s. So while our ancestors may have started the system, the Church/Government perpetuated the system until not that long ago - much less than 100 years. In fact i would hazard a guess that many on this forum where were alive and past the age of majority when some of this went down - I know I was.

I know many say "i had no part in it" and feel no need to make reparations or apologize. For the most i understand and agree but at some level the electorate is responsible for the actions of the sitting government. So for some of those years when i voted there was a government in place doing this. I was totally ignorant at the time about what was happening but as the saying goes ignorance is no excuse. So even though i really had nothing to do with it i still feel some responsibility for the harm done in my lifetime as a voting adult.

---

I like your rational Species8472:
Finishing up university in the early 70's, I can’t recall being politically active, and I really couldn’t see that much sense in voting, especially when I had no political savvy. I’m not even sure that my interest in politics develop much before the mid 80's. As for my interest in indigenous affairs it only started after reading a series of volumes on early Canada which I came across at a flea market probably, a bit after 2000. As I recall the first volume I tackled was Canada after the American Revolution, my curiosity of that period possibly arose as a result of a George III medallion I recall we found in my grandfathers old tool chest. The volume covered the date 1763, the year of the Royal Proclamation which fundamentally return much of the unsettle portion of North America back to the indigenous peoples. It was a ploy by George III to wall in his colonists close to the Atlantic coast, where they could be controlled and apparently heavily taxed. It seem to work at least for a while up until they rebelled. That when I learn the truth of the War of 1812. It was really a war fought between the Americans and the indigenous people with the support of the British, fulfilling something of an obligation which appeared to have been established through the Royal Proclamation in 1763. .It wasn’t a Canadian - American war, Canada had as yet come into existence, and wouldn’t until 1867. .


You don’t stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

This is nothing more than a racial issue creating more divide. I'm glad the church refused to apologize unlike our pathetic PM. Only a couple days ago vandals destroyed a Ryerson statue committing criminal offenses doing so, but are featured on the news for all to see. Seems hate crimes are acceptable as long as you hate on whites.

How many whites died at the hand of whites during years of insane asylums. Dont hear anybody crying or apologizing for all those atrocities to innocent mental health patients. I guess white on white crime is acceptable and no need to apologize.

What? Is that white on white crime , because of their color? How ridiculous.

I find it quite telling that while the tearing down of the statue was clearly on camera,the suspects who committed the crime where NOT televised. Things that make one go "H-m-m-m-m....."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

I find it quite telling that while the tearing down of the statue was clearly on camera,the suspects who committed the crime where NOT televised. Things that make one go "H-m-m-m-m....."

---

Just the usual with the media, a policeman kills 1 black man scream for months, a policeman helps victims of crime or the 999 blacks killed in gang violence and black on black violence... silence. The destruction and vandalism against a historical leader good, protecting the criminals from prosecution better, just look how they protected Justlied on SNC, WE Charity, all those lies on Jody W.R., firearms etc. . The race based sh** the Libs are encouraging is just dividing Canada more and more and this will help them posture and it is time to quit having so many tiers of laws based on race alone, it is probably the only thing I could agree with Pierre Trudeau, the trouble now is his son! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8igrMJ9L4po

AND the bigger issue, the people that need help, clean water and allowed an opportunity!



P.S.
I look to a day when people will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.
Martin Luther King, Jr.

More and more is being learned about the cultures that existed pre-European contact and the environmental, social and cultural impacts like the 1600's mini ice age, the warfare and slavery etc.
https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/4/12/eaav0280 and I mentioned in https://www.oodmag.com/community/sho...=1#post1163082

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mosquito

The race based sh** the Libs are encouraging is just dividing Canada more and more and this will help them posture and it is time to quit having so many tiers of laws based on race alone, it is probably the only thing I could agree with Pierre Trudeau, the trouble now is his son! !

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I agree..I was too young in the 60's to have an interest in politics and had no idea PET was on the right track with his concept for an equal and fair Canada...

The view taken by Trudeau, he of the “Just Society” and later the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, was that “equality” meant everyone should be governed by the same laws. Canada was no place for one set of rules for some people, and another set for others.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

I find it quite telling that while the tearing down of the statue was clearly on camera,the suspects who committed the crime where NOT televised. Things that make one go "H-m-m-m-m....."

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3-2-1 action!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

I agree..I was too young in the 60's to have an interest in politics and had no idea PET was on the right track with his concept for an equal and fair Canada...

The view taken by Trudeau, he of the “Just Society” and later the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, was that “equality” meant everyone should be governed by the same laws. Canada was no place for one set of rules for some people, and another set for others.

---

You mean the same Prime Minister who just recently completed a trip aboard and should be following COVID-19 protocol after doing so, that is flying down to London, Ontario to take part , in a service for the Islamic family who was intentionally mowed down by a 20 year old terrorist driving a pick up truck. Obviously he has a different understanding of the word equality than what you mentioned:
"“equality” meant everyone should be governed by the same laws. Canada was no place for one set of rules for some people, and another set for others.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
Gun Nut

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Species8472

While the roots of the residential school system go back more than 100 years the last of these schools did not close until 1996 a mere 25 years ago and there were still many operating in the 70s and 80s. So while our ancestors may have started the system, the Church/Government perpetuated the system until not that long ago - much less than 100 years. In fact i would hazard a guess that many on this forum where were alive and past the age of majority when some of this went down - I know I was.

I know many say "i had no part in it" and feel no need to make reparations or apologize. For the most i understand and agree but at some level the electorate is responsible for the actions of the sitting government. So for some of those years when i voted there was a government in place doing this. I was totally ignorant at the time about what was happening but as the saying goes ignorance is no excuse. So even though i really had nothing to do with it i still feel some responsibility for the harm done in my lifetime as a voting adult.

---

My public school was the closest to a residential school in Northern Ontario. I attended grade school classes with residential school students. I don't feel any personal responsibility but when I think of my former classmates who were taken away from their families and forced to attend school taught in language they didn't understand that was hundreds of miles away there is a profound sense of sadness. We didn't understand at the time what they were going through.

Residential school survivors deserve everything they get from the Canadian government.

If someone took me away from my family and forced me to attend a school taught in Cree on the coast of Hudson Bay when I was five I'd tear down his statue in a heartbeat and if I couldn't I'd cheer on the people who did.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Species8472

While the roots of the residential school system go back more than 100 years the last of these schools did not close until 1996 a mere 25 years ago and there were still many operating in the 70s and 80s. So while our ancestors may have started the system, the Church/Government perpetuated the system until not that long ago - much less than 100 years. In fact i would hazard a guess that many on this forum where were alive and past the age of majority when some of this went down - I know I was.

I know many say "i had no part in it" and feel no need to make reparations or apologize. For the most i understand and agree but at some level the electorate is responsible for the actions of the sitting government. So for some of those years when i voted there was a government in place doing this. I was totally ignorant at the time about what was happening but as the saying goes ignorance is no excuse. So even though i really had nothing to do with it i still feel some responsibility for the harm done in my lifetime as a voting adult.

---

I hear what you say, and everyone is free to feel the way they want.

However-making oneself feel guilty for something one had no control over is the goal of this modern hype-destroy the past, destroy people's self confidence ,make them feel guilty.
The more they feel guilty -the better !
Then they will feel obligated to listen and bow to every Tom ,Dick and Harry.

As voter-what responsibility one should have over the acts of the Government? Voting for a Party or Person is simply giving trust and perhaps authority. Nothing more.
Howerer - being in power is not a Stock Exchange affair-we all can have a share in it , and perhaps dictate outcome.
Only at election times...

No Government will ever listen or act on a single voice of concern.......never did,never will. Nowhere in the world.

And at the end-when one votes,are all the goals and acts are to be voted on?No.

What happens if one voted for the Opposing party in those days,voted for the ones they lost the election.Like 20-30 years ago?
That person still needs to feel guilty for the acts of the Government he/she did NOT vote for?


I believe in building this country.
Taking down the past ,abolishing all the normal things in life will lead us to a place we shall never be.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gbk

However-making oneself feel guilty for something one had no control over is the goal of this modern hype-destroy the past, destroy people's self confidence ,make them feel guilty.
The more they feel guilty -the better !
Then they will feel obligated to listen and bow to every Tom ,Dick and Harry.

---

Any guilt is not because i think i could have likely changed anything. It is being ignorant of what was occurring under our noses and not saying something at the time whether it could have been changed or not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gbk

Howerer - being in power is not a Stock Exchange affair-we all can have a share in it , and perhaps dictate outcome.
Only at election times....

---

Not actually true. Protest and civil disobedience by enough people for just causes has changed policy many times other than at elections. All it takes for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing - exactly what happened with the schools for many years.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gbk

What happens if one voted for the Opposing party in those days,voted for the ones they lost the election.Like 20-30 years ago?
That person still needs to feel guilty for the acts of the Government he/she did NOT vote for?

---

Who one voted for is irrelevant. As a citizen of Canada it our duty to hold our government to account whether they are your party or not. Existing in ignorance and/or not trying to change actions that are wrong and in this case possibly criminal is an abdication of that duty. Whether or not you can actually change the actions of those in power is secondary as failing to try is failing in your duty. That is where the guilt lies - we should have said/did something whether it could have changed things or not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gbk

I believe in building this country.
Taking down the past ,abolishing all the normal things in life will lead us to a place we shall never be.

---

As do I. The way to do that is to learn from history and to speak out when things are wrong. The entire residential school program was wrong and is not something we can fully blame on our ancestors. Comparing to other wrongs in history and stating well look what they did is a "strawman" and is akin to what kids do when they get caught. Like the 8 year old that says "but look what Bobby did." Compounding wrongs never works - the old saying "two wrongs don't make a right."

I haven’t heard anyone asking for an apology, what I have heard is people asking for help dismantling the systemic racism within society and the system of government that allowed this to happen in the first place.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cameracutter

I haven’t heard anyone asking for an apology, what I have heard is people asking for help dismantling the systemic racism within society and the system of government that allowed this to happen in the first place.

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Pretty sure a bunch of people were trying to the Pope to issue an apology. That aside you are correct - remedying the problems would do far more than any apology. Tall order.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Species8472

Any guilt is not because i think i could have likely changed anything. It is being ignorant of what was occurring under our noses and not saying something at the time whether it could have been changed or not.

---

People are just as ignorant today.
A year later our Military's scathing report on LTC deaths. In fact many dying from lack of care, neglect.

Nobody's crying foul now, just as nobody cried foul then.

History repeats itself, circumstances different, for sure, same end result.

I won't feel guilty of the past or the present for something I'm not involved in or responsible for. That guilt is not mine to carry imo.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Species8472

Pretty sure a bunch of people were trying to the Pope to issue an apology. That aside you are correct - remedying the problems would do far more than any apology. Tall order.

---

Good luck remedying the problem, when you have two solitudes moving in diametrically
in opposite directions. There was the settlements and agriculture and eventually industrial development of the one solitude. Versus non settlement, and wondering hunter-gathers of the other solitude with their desire to preserve the natural habitat that fed their traditional food supply. The former group reached out to assimilate the latter group into their way of thinking. To do this they attempted isolating and educating their youth, over running and destroying the natural habitat of their food supply, followed by killing off that natural and traditional food resource. Thus leaving the latter group to treaty the rights on their lands. In exchange they were herded on to reservation, promised that they would be looked after and be compensated. What I found most interesting, is it became a criminal offense for the latter group to seek legal representation in drawing up treaty arrangement which appears to account for the large amount unceded lands in British Columbia.

You don’t stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut.. .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

You mean the same Prime Minister who just recently completed a trip aboard ]

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No Gun Nut... that's the idiot Son. His dad Pierre (PET), back in the 60's, took a stand against the way we gave special treatment to the Indigenous.

The Village Idiot took after his mother and is a raging narcissist, only cares about himself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Species8472

Any guilt is not because i think i could have likely changed anything. It is being ignorant of what was occurring under our noses and not saying something at the time whether it could have been changed or not.



Not actually true. Protest and civil disobedience by enough people for just causes has changed policy many times other than at elections. All it takes for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing - exactly what happened with the schools for many years.



Who one voted for is irrelevant. As a citizen of Canada it our duty to hold our government to account whether they are your party or not. Existing in ignorance and/or not trying to change actions that are wrong and in this case possibly criminal is an abdication of that duty. Whether or not you can actually change the actions of those in power is secondary as failing to try is failing in your duty. That is where the guilt lies - we should have said/did something whether it could have changed things or not.



As do I. The way to do that is to learn from history and to speak out when things are wrong. The entire residential school program was wrong and is not something we can fully blame on our ancestors. Comparing to other wrongs in history and stating well look what they did is a "strawman" and is akin to what kids do when they get caught. Like the 8 year old that says "but look what Bobby did." Compounding wrongs never works - the old saying "two wrongs don't make a right."

---

Agree 100%.

Pick a topic, that is a popular one here on the forums.
Hydro, or McGuinty/Wynne, or Lockdowns, or JT and phase out oil, or JT and massive debt, or JT and Scandals?
What is a common "complaint". That the GTA sticks it's head in the sand per se?

Far too often, I see comments along the lines of "what will griping on social media accomplish".
Answer: Lots

All one needs to do is recall how fast politicians reacted when the public at large howled on social media about politicians that flew south for Christmas. Makes me chuckle in a sad way. The silent majority can and will "stick their heads in the sand" despite obvious "wrongs", but get their knickers in knots over fluff.

Our treatment of Indigenous people while not "brutal" to the extent of the US treatment of same, was and is "shameful" for a so called civilized, wealthy, Country. Sure, the residential school system started over a century ago. It continued in my lifetime. As have issues around clean drinking water, missing women, women being sold into the sex trade, and more.

/crickets (maybe that why they are called the silent majority???????)

I've read comments about racism, etc.
Yep, maybe that's why the silent majority......does what it does best.
Two white boys murder a few well to do tourist. We mobilized multiple law enforcement agencies, the military, used all kinds of resources tracking them across the north...

FNs?
/crickets

Are we responsible for what happened 100 years ago? Nope
Are we responsible for what's occurring today? Yep
We blame politicians all the time (pick any topic) , when really, it's the electorate at fault.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

No Gun Nut... that's the idiot Son. His dad Pierre (PET), back in the 60's, took a stand against the way we gave special treatment to the Indigenous.

The Village Idiot took after his mother and is a raging narcissist, only cares about himself.

---

I’m well aware of the father’s misperceptions, when he repatriated our constitution, he was all
for giving the Indigenous people, nothing. That is until a supreme court justice took him
aside and explained what a mistake that would be. It’s one of those occasions where it might have been interesting to be fly on the wall to hear what the justice had to say to his father, to curve his attitude problem. Whatever, perhaps Pierre may have mentioned something about it to Justin. May it was something like, you do realize our nation’s capital and the seat of our Parliament are resting on unceded land. Or maybe the justice had another trump card to play. ..

You don’t stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut.. .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JBen

A



Far too often, I see comments along the lines of "what will griping on social media accomplish".
Answer: Lots

All one needs to do is recall how fast politicians reacted when the public at large howled on social media about politicians that flew south for Christmas.

Are we responsible for what's occurring today? Yep
We blame politicians all the time (pick any topic) , when really, it's the electorate at fault.

---

JBen- i believe in what You say-only if the topic brought up fits the narrative of the day(flavour of the day -flavour of the month etc)

The politicians flying out for Christmas and "being ashamed"has nothing to do with accomplishing what the public wanted on political field.They were caught ,they were thrown in the the media big time,and they saw trouble.

Not challenging You-but please bring up a "not so popular"topic,where the Public actually made significant changes (even as a group).
Not an example as -divert the Highway different ways ,or one brought up and pushed thru by special interest groups...but one with substantial weight.Not one which goes with the flavor of the month......a hard one.


As far as blaming electorate(us)for their deeds-i am so sorry,that is exactly what they want us to belive.That is how Politicians get away with responsibility.
Collective guilt ?

I definitely do not feel guilty for any of their deeds i am not personally involved in .

Doug Ford wanted to cut funding for French language. The public made a lot of noise. He backed off, cut squat.

Harper had no plans to spend money. The NDP/Liberals who between them didn’t have enough seats to fill a small plane. The public made noise, he spent….

Last fall, Ford tried a “balanced” approach. Health officials, the public made noise. He locked down hard.

While an election is coming. The public has been howling about LTCs. Despite being “broke”, despite adding massive amounts of new debt, despite no fix for Hydro, despite people he claims to champion losing jobs/income left right and Center. Millions to be spent in LTCs.

If anyone thinks policiticians don’t listen when the silent majority makes noise. Don’t switch gears, don’t want to be re-elected….I don’t know what to say…

JT campaigned on election reform. “Last time with first past”….the public wants proportional (if anything). He wanted ranked. The public made it clear that’s not what they wanted……he backed off

yes they got caught flying south. The electorate lost its minds…and heads rolled right fast…

when we care, they care…

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JBen

Agree 100%.

Pick a topic, that is a popular one here on the forums.
Hydro, or McGuinty/Wynne, or Lockdowns, or JT and phase out oil, or JT and massive debt, or JT and Scandals?
What is a common "complaint". That the GTA sticks it's head in the sand per se?

Far too often, I see comments along the lines of "what will griping on social media accomplish".
Answer: Lots

All one needs to do is recall how fast politicians reacted when the public at large howled on social media about politicians that flew south for Christmas. Makes me chuckle in a sad way. The silent majority can and will "stick their heads in the sand" despite obvious "wrongs", but get their knickers in knots over fluff.

Our treatment of Indigenous people while not "brutal" to the extent of the US treatment of same, was and is "shameful" for a so called civilized, wealthy, Country. Sure, the residential school system started over a century ago. It continued in my lifetime. As have issues around clean drinking water, missing women, women being sold into the sex trade, and more.

/crickets (maybe that why they are called the silent majority???????)

I've read comments about racism, etc.
Yep, maybe that's why the silent majority......does what it does best.
Two white boys murder a few well to do tourist. We mobilized multiple law enforcement agencies, the military, used all kinds of resources tracking them across the north...

FNs?
/crickets

Are we responsible for what happened 100 years ago? Nope
Are we responsible for what's occurring today? Yep
We blame politicians all the time (pick any topic) , when really, it's the electorate at fault.

---

The problem appears to be that past mistakes eventually catch up with us, and create present day problem. I’ve heard it said over and over; all those lazy no good for nothing people want is more and more of our hard earn money. Imagine if you will the relationship between tenants and their landlord. Then imagine the tenants saying the exact same thing about their landlord. What is different, is a landlord needs an income to live on as well as pay taxes, and do up keep in order to stop his property from becoming run down, through the recklessness of the tenants. So where do these people get off, they do need income to live on, but they don’t pay taxes, and their only upkeep concerns are relate to continuous habitat reduction, environmental poisoning, and tenants refusing to pay up for their rights to the land, promised during past treaty arrangements.

You don’t stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut.. .

Don't disagree with that GN.
We could sum that up by saying, just as the silent majority enables polictians, we ( Canadians) have enabled first nations. How has that ever worked when dealing with 12 year olds. But, is it the child's fault, or the parents...And when you end up with 30 year old kids, that don't know how to adult, don't know how to function in the world...Whose responsibility is that?

Part of the problem, I feel, is that it's come to a point, where there is over reaction on some topics, inaction on others. Would this latest with unmarked graves, be something we might call low hanging fruit?

The answers, about what can be done now are not remotely simple. Do we not need to start somewhere?
Our friend, a GP ( currently helping with Covid because her specialty is geriatrics) spent the early part of her career in Northern Ontario on reserves. Where young mothers have to be taught it's ok to love their children. Why don't they? Well when they die young and theres no emotional attachment.....How messed is that?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JBen

Don't disagree with that GN.
We could sum that up by saying, just as the silent majority enables polictians, we ( Canadians) have enabled first nations. How has that ever worked when dealing with 12 year olds. But, is it the child's fault, or the parents...And when you end up with 30 year old kids, that don't know how to adult, don't know how to function in the world...Whose responsibility is that?

Part of the problem, I feel, is that it's come to a point, where there is over reaction on some topics, inaction on others. Would this latest with unmarked graves, be something we might call low hanging fruit?

The answers, about what can be done now are not remotely simple. Do we not need to start somewhere?
Our friend, a GP ( currently helping with Covid because her specialty is geriatrics) spent the early part of her career in Northern Ontario on reserves. Where young mothers have to be taught it's ok to love their children. Why don't they? Well when they die young and theres no emotional attachment.....How messed is that?

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We took a once proud independent people removed them from their natural elements and migratory lifestyle. Placed them on reservation and provide for their needs by putting them on what can only be described as a welfare. Because we wanted their lands on which to build a nation. You asked whose responsibility are they? If I’ve got the treaty arrangements and obligations right, it appears that it makes them primarily Canada’s responsibility...
Those unmarked graves fundamentally stand to demonstrate an unfeeling lack of concern for the children who were taken from them, and how abysmal were the efforts in attempting to assimilation them..
Where do we go from here? Good question. Some indigenous people are finding their way into our headspace, while others are choosing to stay clear. It maybe just a question of time as the elders die off, and a younger generation moves forward and eventually integrates into our lifestyle. Until then, it is what it is. It might have been interesting to see what would have resulted in following the protocol of the Royal Proclamation. I suspect a much smaller Canada and possibly a greater U.S.A.. .

You don’t stop hunting because you grow old . You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

This is the real "Truth and Reconciliation" required and Trudeau knows it. All the billions in hush money simply will no longer sweep it under the rug. They were a haven for pedophiles and predators who committed murders and atrocities.

"An estimated 5,000 people committed a sex crime at a residential school during the system's 100 year existence, but fewer than 50 have been convicted"

"For more than 100 years, if you were a sexual predator seeking child victims, there were few better places to work than a Canadian Indian Residential School."

"Schools didn’t bother performing even the most rudimentary background checks on potential new employees and they paid such piddling wages they would take almost any willing recruit. Students were kept constantly hungry and were relentlessly cowed into meek obedience through corporal punishment, both of which would be ruthless exploited by abusers."

"And as church-run institutions for much of their existence, abusers within Indian Residential Schools were protected by the same culture of secrecy that is now known to have protected sexual predators at church-run facilities around the world."

"Virtually from the outset, a shockingly large proportion of the 150,000 Indigenous children sent to residential schools were subjected to rape and molestation from principals, teachers, dormitory supervisors and even maintenance workers and janitors. At some schools, upwards of 70 per cent of students faced some form of sexual abuse."

“The Canadian legal system failed to provide justice to Survivors who were abused,” read the final report of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. “When, in the late 1980s, that system eventually did begin to respond to the abuse, it did so inadequately and in a way that often re-victimized the Survivors.”

https://ottawasun.com/news/canada/wh...ped-punishment

First school to be excavated under the basement of pine creek turned out to be piles of rocks.
Wonder how many churches burned to the ground for rock piles underground.




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