What Some Guys Gave

After WW2 ended there were a lot of guys coming back to my neighborhood after serving in the armed forces - there was one family that had 3 boys in the service during the war - all 3 came home but one of them was not the same anymore - one day I was working on my Plymouth in the driveway when I heard someone saying - help, help - I went over to the fence and saw a couple guys trying to put Johnny into a straight jacket - he was holding onto a fence and calling for help - every so often he would go off the deep end and the family would have to put him in a mental hospital for shock treatments - his brothers told us that he was in the invasion and was put on a burial detail - he and others would go around picking up dead bodies and load them on trucks - some of the bodies were all black and blown up - sometimes when they got picked up by the legs or arms they would come apart - the poor guy never got over that - war is hell - that's for sure - I often wonder if the young folks have any idea what sacrifices were made so they can be free

I think my generation has an understanding of WW2 and WW1. My old man and mother were born after WW2 in 1946. So they obviously knew quite about it. My Grandfathers told me about WW2. I think the generation after me some have an understanding probably like 20% of Kids under thirty. The generation after my kid's probably won't know much. I don't think they even teach anything in school about it anymore.

Both grandfathers joined in 1940 I think. One was wounded twice shot in the back and survived and his toe was shot off. I remember being a tyke and counting his toes and was amazed he only had 9 toes.

A lot of my uncles went. All came home. All bore scars. One uncle, that lost the lower half of an ear, lived the rest of his life with shrapnel in him.

My grandfather and his brother served in www1. The brother didn’t come home. My grandfather lived the rest of his life on 1/2 lung. He passed in 1976.

Can only recall one time, when a couple of them were pretty drunk that they ever talked about it/told a couple stories.

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Originally Posted by JoePa

I often wonder if the young folks have any idea what sacrifices were made so they can be free

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When you see the disgusting percentage that simply throw away their right to vote you can be sure they really have no clue what the generations before them went through.

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Originally Posted by FishHog

When you see the disgusting percentage that simply throw away their right to vote you can be sure they really have no clue what the generations before them went through.

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Gen "X" and "Y" millennials were never taught about WW1 and WW2 except for a cursory "Cole's Notes" version of the main talking points. By the time they were in History classes of the late '70's and 80's,the left wing revisionists had completely bastardized the history criteria in the education system. As for Gen "Z",well,I doubt any one of them could tell you anything about Korea or Viet Nam. Actually,that might not be 100% accurate because my grandson's senior class had a trip this past year to eastern Germany and Poland where they visited Bergen-Belsen,Treblinka and Dachau. They all came back dramatically changed from smart mouth little a**holes to young adults with a whole new outlook on life.

No I disagree Gen X is from 1965 - 1980 which is my age group and we were taught about WW2 also don't forget the generation before that is the War baby Boomers.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

Gen "X" and "Y" millennials were never taught about WW1 and WW2 except for a cursory "Cole's Notes" version of the main talking points. By the time they were in History classes of the late '70's and 80's,the left wing revisionists had completely bastardized the history criteria in the education system. As for Gen "Z",well,I doubt any one of them could tell you anything about Korea or Viet Nam. Actually,that might not be 100% accurate because my grandson's senior class had a trip this past year to eastern Germany and Poland where they visited Bergen-Belsen,Treblinka and Dachau. They all came back dramatically changed from smart mouth little a**holes to young adults with a whole new outlook on life.

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

No I disagree Gen X is from 1965 - 1980 which is my age group and we were taught about WW2 also don't forget the generation before that is the War baby Boomers.

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Yep,I shouldn't have included Gen "X". I'm a late "boomer/early Gen "X" myself. I remember Gr.12 history quiet well. One of my teachers was a Korean War vet who was a rabid advocate for freedom and liberty. Hell'they'd have likely run him out of town if it were today. I distinctly remember a local NDP MP attending an assembly espousing leftist politics and Marxist history talking points. Given half a chance,there was no doubt in my mind that my history teacher would have loved nothing better than to gut him like a fish.

I have all my Grandfather's war papers when they joined, rank, pay and discharge as well as their war medals, both volunteered.
But I have never been able to get in to see the war diaries to see if they are mentioned.

I know both my Grandfathers had a lot of bad memories. According to both of my parents my Grandfather's would sometimes wake up screaming in the night about the war.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

Gen "X" and "Y" millennials were never taught about WW1 and WW2 except for a cursory "Cole's Notes" version of the main talking points. By the time they were in History classes of the late '70's and 80's,the left wing revisionists had completely bastardized the history criteria in the education system. As for Gen "Z",well,I doubt any one of them could tell you anything about Korea or Viet Nam. Actually,that might not be 100% accurate because my grandson's senior class had a trip this past year to eastern Germany and Poland where they visited Bergen-Belsen,Treblinka and Dachau. They all came back dramatically changed from smart mouth little a**holes to young adults with a whole new outlook on life.

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I will agree, being an 80s "millennial" they didn't teach much about WW2 most of compulsory history class was focused on WW1 and only the relevant Canadian contribution. It wasn't until adulthood that I learned the real details of many major world events.

I have never been able to associate the concept of having the right to vote because Canadians fought in WWII. Nor could I wrap my head around the idea that one was a hero just because they served. Maybe thats more of an American ideal. Probably the majority went overseas because there was little work at home and many did go for the adventure. But I do read everything I can get my hands on when it comes to both world wars, watch the history channel more than anything. I'm sure that with time both those conflicts will disappear and will be little more than a blurp in our schools teachings.

I don’t understand why some are placed on pedestals and some aren’t. To me, dead is dead.

Will say, those that died in war, did sacrifice. Ours is not to wonder why, ours is but to do or die…

My uncles didn’t fight for our right to vote. They fought, because a country with expansion in mind….was steamrolling much of Europe.

The US sat on the sidelines until the Japanese foolishly poked a bear…

Gen X and onward.
My Grandfather, if I recall was around 80 when he passed in 76. Imagine living on 1/2 a lung for 50 years….So he could have been anywhere between 16 and 20 something when he spilled blood…..

My dad was born in 31. So too young. But not by much. Both sides of my parents families were large. I had a lot of Aunts/Uncles. Large families were common back then…..

What I know, I learned some from school, some from family.

Any kid born after say 1970? Learn from Hollywood. And we know how accurate that is. Not very. And for a country that sat on the sidelines, likely would have continued to…..

My Grandfather fought in WWI as a signalman. He was never issued a rifle, just grenades and a .45 revolver. Probably a .455 Webley, or similar. It was his job to let HQ know whether their troops were advancing or retreating. When he found a telegraph bunker he was to identify which side was using it. If it was occupied, and identified as German, he through in a grenade, let the smoke clear, repair the lines if needed and report to HQ his position so they would know how the battle was going. He served through the war unscathed other than losing a tooth in a baseball game. He saw many horrible things and paid the price mentally and spent a year or two in Whitby Psych. PTSD wasn't a recognized thing back then. I have his complete service records showing his pay and medical records.

One of his sons, my Uncle served in WWII and was killed a day or two after D DAY by shrapnel. He is buried in France and my grandmother used to get a picture every year of his grave sent to her by the young woman that helped look after the grave sites. My late wife's father and I were talking one night about his service and I told him about when and approximately where my Uncle was killed. Very ironically, my father in laws job was cleaning up after battles. He was almost certain that his group or possibly himself probably picked up my Uncle's body to be sent for burial. I have to say, it gave me an eerie feeling hearing him talk about it. I never knew my Uncle, but his story and what I learned about a young man that died at twenty years of age for his country has always made me respect him.

I think the concept of young people not knowing is ridiculous, sacrifices were made and are still being made so that they can be free including WWII but also many other internal and external conflicts that have gone on and continue to go on.

People keep bringing up the right to vote and people throwing that right away, I have to admit I want a repeal on your tax return or something like that, not a large amount but something that is meaningful if you refuse to exercise your ability to vote, even if you take the time to vote no confidence in the options.

Remember that the voter turnout actually has not changed much since WWII, in the late 50s and 60s were the highest voter turnout by percentage of electors but those numbers were lower than the total population, probably because there was not universal suffrage yet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout_in_Canada

Remember, in 1944, June 6th, quite a number of indigenous men went to fight, and die for your freedom but they were not allowed to vote until as late as 1969.

I know a lot about history, my one grandpa was too young but wanted to fly in the air force, he flew a trainer plane after the war. My one uncle was in the reserves but his dad kept the boys out to run the farm. I had 3 great uncles that fought, one of which had a chunk of his stuff blown off in Holland.

Remember what they were fighting for but please don't work that in to any agenda, we have millennials fighting for freedoms right now as part of the Canadian Armed Forces and they should be as respected as any others who put on the uniform.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

Gen "X" and "Y" millennials were never taught about WW1 and WW2 except for a cursory "Cole's Notes" version of the main talking points. By the time they were in History classes of the late '70's and 80's,the left wing revisionists had completely bastardized the history criteria in the education system. As for Gen "Z",well,I doubt any one of them could tell you anything about Korea or Viet Nam. Actually,that might not be 100% accurate because my grandson's senior class had a trip this past year to eastern Germany and Poland where they visited Bergen-Belsen,Treblinka and Dachau. They all came back dramatically changed from smart mouth little a**holes to young adults with a whole new outlook on life.

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I’m a GenX-er and we certainly didn’t learn anything about the two world wars in history class. If we had, people would be more appreciative.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

Yep,I shouldn't have included Gen "X". I'm a late "boomer/early Gen "X" myself. I remember Gr.12 history quiet well. One of my teachers was a Korean War vet who was a rabid advocate for freedom and liberty. Hell'they'd have likely run him out of town if it were today. I distinctly remember a local NDP MP attending an assembly espousing leftist politics and Marxist history talking points. Given half a chance,there was no doubt in my mind that my history teacher would have loved nothing better than to gut him like a fish.

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I am early GenX and we learned a lot in history and at home. Both my parents lived through the occupation. At 12 my dad was a courier for the resistance as kids were less likely to get bothered by the Germans. His dad was captured by the Germans during a raid on their resistance cell and was tortured in an attempt to get him to give up names. He eventually escaped and went well into hiding until the end of the war but would never discuss details of what happened.

My mom's dad was captured by the Germans after being injured during the handful of days that the Dutch forces fought before they surrendered. He was found naked in a ditch after the concussive force of an explosion actually blew all his clothes and tags off. Spent 6 months in a coma and they actually didn't know who he was or if he was Dutch or German until he woke up. He suffered mild depression for the remainder of his life.

One of my mother's uncle's was awarded the gentile honor of "Righteous among the Nations" by the Israeli government for the Jewish people he rescued during the war. Came with Israeli citizenship and full pension and healthcare if he ever decided to live in Israel. He just recently passed at 109 years old. Find memories of him spinning me around as a kid on a roundabout in a Rotterdam park.

Is culture taught in schools? Or passed down through families? Well I guess we could look at certain FN issues………….

Late stage Gen Xers, missed the boat. Though would still have some appreciation. While perhaps unfair, consider many “memes”. Pictures of young adults about to land on D-Day vs young people today complaining about 1st world problems and not being able to golf……go to bars, hang out….”they went to war. All were asking is for you to sit on the couch”…

Who thinks life in London during the Battle of Britain was fun..

Then to. Those left at home, worked in factories churning out munitions…lived off rations, and bought war bonds to help…Today, people gripe about taxes and fines…and no one, no one that’s unaffected is stepping up to help those sacrificing……

As I got older and started reading more, particularly from the British and European perspectives. I had family that both faught and lived through it. Not passed down, direct first hand…parents, aunts/uncles…I had some taught in school, and I had John Wayne.

Canada’s contribution, role etc. Nothing like Europe’s. Were our cities being bombed? Were US factories?

And the reality is, at least for us, and for people born after say 1970. Most of what they get taught is heavily skewed by “Hollywood”.

And maybe, it’s worth considering. That people that lived through it, might remember it, say those born around 1930-1935.

Are today, in their 80-90s.
Many of them, caged like lab rats and paying the prices…just as they did 75-80 years ago….

So.
When it comes to the generations, after Boomers.

I would argue, each successive (Gen Xers would be 40-55ish) has less and less and less appreciation for what it was like. and willingness to , sacrifice…

My Grandfather was a partisan resistance fighter in Italy during WW2. He was executed by German soldiers on Christmas eve in 1943 in front of his family during the battle of Ortona where over 2000 Canadian soldiers also lost their lives. He was buried along with 1500 Canadian soldiers in the Moro river cemetery.
My mother was 4 yrs old when she witnessed the execution of her father by German soldiers. She grew up in an orphanage until the age of 13.
She suffered from PTSD her whole life and always spoke of the freedoms that we enjoy here in Canada.
There was A LOT of sacrifice made by Canadian soldiers to free Italy and Europe from Fascism and the Nazis.
In comparison, I had a really great childhood even though we didn't have a lot of money and we took it for granted.
I am by no means rich but considered to be middle class. We don't lack anything in our lives and have some toys to boot. By the way, I worked hard to get to where I'm at today.
Millenials today are not taught this in schools and its a shame. Instead, they are taught to check their white privilege and they act like they are entitled with out earning anything. Our government encourages this behaviour and is destroying the small businesses of the middle class.
This marxist/socialist agenda that is out there must be defeated! I am very concerned with the future of Canada and the US.

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Originally Posted by 73hunter

I’m a GenX-er and we certainly didn’t learn anything about the two world wars in history class. If we had, people would be more appreciative.

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You didn't? I am a Millennial and I did, grade 9 history class, it was with the Canadian history class. Then had the opportunity to take history as college electives and took 2 more.

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Originally Posted by Fox

You didn't? I am a Millennial and I did, grade 9 history class, it was with the Canadian history class. Then had the opportunity to take history as college electives and took 2 more.

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Nope, wasn’t in our curriculum I guess ? I was born in ‘75, and have read plenty about both world wars and watched many a history documentary but none of what I’ve learned was from school.

It was in NB and I am the beginning of GenX

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Originally Posted by 73hunter

I’m a GenX-er and we certainly didn’t learn anything about the two world wars in history class. If we had, people would be more appreciative.

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Originally Posted by 73hunter

Nope, wasn’t in our curriculum I guess ? I was born in ‘75, and have read plenty about both world wars and watched many a history documentary but none of what I’ve learned was from school.

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When I attended school in the late 60's and 70's most of the history we learned was about Canada. We learned more about the Plains of Abraham and Lundy's Lane than Normandy or El Alamein. It was as if WWII wasn't considered really "history" as many of the participants were still alive. Remembrance Day was a much bigger deal back then too.

Three of my uncles served in WWII and one didn't come home although was not killed in combat. One fought in Ortona and was captured by the Germans. We were taught a little about Dieppe in school but Canada's role in Italy was never mentioned and I only learned about it years later.

Were you living in the US?

I studied Canadian History in NB

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

When I attended school in the late 60's and 70's most of the history we learned was about Canada. We learned more about the Plains of Abraham and Lundy's Lane than Normandy or El Alamein. It was as if WWII wasn't considered really "history" as many of the participants were still alive. Remembrance Day was a much bigger deal back then too.

Three of my uncles served in WWII and one didn't come home although was not killed in combat. One fought in Ortona and was captured by the Germans. We were taught a little about Dieppe in school but Canada's role in Italy was never mentioned and I only learned about it years later.

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

Were you living in the US?

I studied Canadian History in NB

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No, lived in Canada but most of our history we learned focused on the era pre-WWI. Very little about the first and second World War, great Depression, etc.

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Originally Posted by 73hunter

Nope, wasn’t in our curriculum I guess ? I was born in ‘75, and have read plenty about both world wars and watched many a history documentary but none of what I’ve learned was from school.

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It was focused on Canada for sure but the world wars were on our list for sure. We even looked at the internment camps in WWI and WWII, the refusal of jewish refugees in the 1930s when Hitler told them to get out before he started the mass killing. We talked about the major battles of WWI and WWII with Canadian connections, Ypres, Somme, Juno beach, etc. I actually wrote one of my exam essays on the Juggernaut battleship.

We covered it in grade 7 or 8 I believe, and also did a school trip to the theater for Shindler's List. My great Uncle was home on a 2 week leave from War, where he unfortunately drown while fishing with my Grampa . He's buried in Bancroft, and although I never met him, I've visited a few times to thank him on my way to the hunt camp.

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Originally Posted by Fox

It was focused on Canada for sure but the world wars were on our list for sure. We even looked at the internment camps in WWI and WWII, the refusal of jewish refugees in the 1930s when Hitler told them to get out before he started the mass killing. We talked about the major battles of WWI and WWII with Canadian connections, Ypres, Somme, Juno beach, etc. I actually wrote one of my exam essays on the Juggernaut battleship.

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I was born in 66 and we did learn Canadian history in class but most was from the time of Confederation, war of 1812. We did touch a bit on WW1 and WW2 but not a lot of detail until high school. I remember my presentation about the battle of Ortona brought tears to my teacher’s eyes and I got an A+ on it.
We sang the National anthem every morning along with the Lord’s Prayer, even in high school which was a public school.
My kids were taught very minimal history. No national anthem and god forbid they said a prayer. No Christmas tree either We lived in a new subdivision so they went to a public school until the catholic school was built. After we transferred them to the catholic school they would have prayer but no national anthem.


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I think I did WW1 and 2 in grade 10 or 11 can't remember now. I know it was in high school.

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Originally Posted by Mauro

I was born in 66 and we did learn Canadian history in class but most was from the time of Confederation, war of 1812. We did touch a bit on WW1 and WW2 but not a lot of detail until high school. I remember my presentation about the battle of Ortona brought tears to my teacher’s eyes and I got an A+ on it.
We sang the National anthem every morning along with the Lord’s Prayer, even in high school which was a public school.
My kids were taught very minimal history. No national anthem and god forbid they said a prayer. No Christmas tree either We lived in a new subdivision so they went to a public school until the catholic school was built. After we transferred them to the catholic school they would have prayer but no national anthem.


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My kid is in kindergarten and she sings the anthem, in both french and english.

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Originally Posted by Fox

My kid is in kindergarten and she sings the anthem, in both french and english.

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I guess different schools or school boards have different policies.


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Originally Posted by Mauro

I guess different schools or school boards have different policies.


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Must be

We were lucky, one of the best teachers as a person in our high school was a history teacher, you could chat with him at lunch about anything.

I ended up finding an original book of orders from England to the Canadian troops for WWI and the consequences of disobeying and giving it to him as a retirement gift.

I am Gen X. I was taught about the war, and reasoning both WW1 and 2 started.
But there's a difference being taught out of a text book, and experiencing the war, or aftermaths.
I don't think I will ever truly understand those pains and emotions ... I imagine it had it's
good things (society straightened up a bit on moral standards?), but its minuses too (the injuries, deaths,
mental issues ... and also all the older ladies on my street growing up, that be seriously skeptical of everything!).

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Originally Posted by Fox

Must be

We were lucky, one of the best teachers as a person in our high school was a history teacher, you could chat with him at lunch about anything.

I ended up finding an original book of orders from England to the Canadian troops for WWI and the consequences of disobeying and giving it to him as a retirement gift.

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Wasn't that a great gift. Good on you.
My Dad was overseas from Dec. 1939- Spring of 1945, (Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment) . Also came home a shadow of himself, never to fully recover. Thank you Dad for your sacrifice.

PS
I remember as a child asking Dad why the Dutch farmer never made us pay for the apples we bought. He explained and I never forgot that. Dad's regiment was one of those that freed Holland from the Germans.

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Originally Posted by Sharon

PS
I remember as a child asking Dad why the Dutch farmer never made us pay for the apples we bought. He explained and I never forgot that. Dad's regiment was one of those that freed Holland from the Germans.

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Sharon, my Mom was born in Holland and lived on a farm outside of Amsterdam during WWII. When she came over to visit me in Germany, we went to visit the old family farm. She told me the folks who fleed the city would often come thru looking for food. Some asked my G'Pa, but others would sneak in and help themselves to eggs in the barn. BUT what she said, they never took more than they needed and always made sure there was some left behind.

Canadian still sends a platoon of soldiers to Holland annual for their Nijmegen march. I never had a chance to participate, but had friends who did and they say they were treated as heroes to this day.

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Originally Posted by MarkB

I am Gen X. I was taught about the war, and reasoning both WW1 and 2 started.
But there's a difference being taught out of a text book, and experiencing the war, or aftermaths.
I don't think I will ever truly understand those pains and emotions ... I imagine it had it's
good things (society straightened up a bit on moral standards?), but its minuses too (the injuries, deaths,
mental issues ... and also all the older ladies on my street growing up, that be seriously skeptical of everything!).

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Finally.

It wasn’t until much later in life I started reading stuff written by the British or Europeans. And I think, gained a better understanding.

Anyone think what’s taught in American schools, is the same as what’s taught in Canadian?Are Canadian text the same as British?

In another generation if not already there, that generation will have no family to pass stuff down. And for all we know, wwwii memorials might be out of favour and torn down.

War is terrible for both sides - it is sad that a handful of people can take over a country and lead it into a war where the citizens have little to say what goes on - my parents immigrated from Germany in the late 20s - an aunt came over in the late 30s just when Hitler was taking over - many Germans did not support Hitler but couldn't do anything about it otherwise they would end up dead - I had an uncle who was killed on the Russian front - he was in his 20s - a cousin who ended up marrying an American soldier after the war told this story - she was born and raised in Bavaria - Hitler would drive through their village on his way to his mountain retreat - the children would all be brought out of school and stand along the road when he passed by - one day she was picked as the student to give him a bouquet of flowers when he stopped - there were two things she remembers when she met him - his shinny boots and his piercing eyes - she said that she was scared because he looked like he could see right through her - just think - one guy with a gun could have changed the course of history

I had 4 uncles who served
One was bomber crew shot down. Broke both ankles ended up pow in stalag # can’t remember number now
He started laying floor after the war cause he could work on his knees
Another took shrapnel lost a eye
Another bomber crew shot down Japanese pow. Ended up loosing his sight malnutrition said they feed you warm water with maybe 4 pumpkin seeds in soup
Said they knew how to hurt a man. I remember him saying in his eighties took all his power not to snap the neck Asian speaking person
Another was trainer
Two aunt were nurses I sometimes think they seen more horrors than the guys other than pow’s

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Originally Posted by Fox

My kid is in kindergarten and she sings the anthem, in both french and english.

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Glad to hear it

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Originally Posted by Sharon

Wasn't that a great gift. Good on you.
My Dad was overseas from Dec. 1939- Spring of 1945, (Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment) . Also came home a shadow of himself, never to fully recover. Thank you Dad for your sacrifice.

PS
I remember as a child asking Dad why the Dutch farmer never made us pay for the apples we bought. He explained and I never forgot that. Dad's regiment was one of those that freed Holland from the Germans.

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My great uncle was in Holland too, never met him and my moms memories are not very good. He had a chunk of his skull blown away by a shell, the red cross left him as dead but the locals took him to a hospital in Holland. They put in a metal plate to close up his head and he died back in Canada much later. He self medicated and it was obvious to my mom that he had severe PTSD.

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Originally Posted by JoePa

War is terrible for both sides - it is sad that a handful of people can take over a country and lead it into a war where the citizens have little to say what goes on - my parents immigrated from Germany in the late 20s - an aunt came over in the late 30s just when Hitler was taking over - many Germans did not support Hitler but couldn't do anything about it otherwise they would end up dead - I had an uncle who was killed on the Russian front - he was in his 20s - a cousin who ended up marrying an American soldier after the war told this story - she was born and raised in Bavaria - Hitler would drive through their village on his way to his mountain retreat - the children would all be brought out of school and stand along the road when he passed by - one day she was picked as the student to give him a bouquet of flowers when he stopped - there were two things she remembers when she met him - his shinny boots and his piercing eyes - she said that she was scared because he looked like he could see right through her - just think - one guy with a gun could have changed the course of history

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There were all those German POWs that were held in camps in the western provinces and stayed in Canada when the war ended and they were freed.


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I recall watching a documentary a few years back on the liberation of Holland. At the end of the war the Americans arranged a large celebration in Holland expounding the sacrifice of the Dutch peoples and the Americans and other allies who fought for their liberation. Canadians weren't invited to the ceremonies.