COVID-19 is drastically reduced

Certainly looks like covid behaves like a regular flu season to me. So why all the lockdowns?

"The risk of contracting a second case of COVID-19 is drastically reduced for up to 10 months following a first infection, according to a study of more than 2,000 home care residents and staff"

“It’s really good news that natural infection protects against reinfection in this time period,” said Maria Krutikovl, the study’s lead author from University College London in England. “The risk of being infected twice appears to be very low. The fact that prior COVID-19 infection gives a high level of protection to care home residents is also reassuring, given past concerns that these individuals might have less robust immune responses associated with increasing age."

https://www.healthing.ca/diseases-and-conditions/coronavirus/study-of-covid-reinfection-risk-is-really-good-news

"Certainly looks like covid behaves like a regular flu season to me. So why all the lockdowns?"

Impact, medical studies are great, but they don't necessarily come up with full prove results. That is why they are put under the microscope by several research teams, that test and retest the finding, On occasion they find out where mistakes may have been made in the original trails and analysis.
We like to think that science is a sure thing, but a lot of variables can come into play and possibly be overlooked. Early on I heard the former Medical Officer for Ontario say essentially the same thing, "No big deal, this virus is behaving like any flu." The kicker is its capacity to progress rapidly into a sever protraction of viral pneumonia. I'm not sure that has been the case of other flu viruses that have been doing the round over the past number of years. This virus seems to have made the headlines because it has had such an ability, and has spread across the world, chalking up quite a body count.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

IMO, we will see if all the vaccines have made a difference come November. Last year during the summer (no vaccines) we had less than 100 cases a day. Lets see what happens this fall.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

"Certainly looks like covid behaves like a regular flu season to me. So why all the lockdowns?"
This virus seems to have made the headlines because it has had such an ability, and has spread across the world, chalking up quite a body count.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

---

It got a headline because politicians decided to give it one. The Great Reset.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by impact

It got a headline because politicians decided to give it one. The Great Reset.

---

Politicians favorite motto: "Never let a good crisis go to waste."

https://i.imgur.com/DUnyElB.jpg

Is it?
“Just the flu”?

We peaked in March, fell off. Peaked again May. Does the “flu” do that? Don’t know, but don’t think so.

The UK.
Peaked in Jan/Feb. Mid winter. Has drastically fallen off since.

Brazil. Influenza fatalities around or under 1,000/year Covid. Almost 500,000 despite Ivermectin being popular.

Italy.
Fairly temporate climate. One study I had read (done before 2020) reported 70,000 influenza deaths. Covid is around 130,000.
That study, was over a 4 year period.

New York.
I can’t recall a winter in my life, where refrigerated trucks were used as morgues.

GTA
I can’t recall a regular flu season when the army was called in. And no mayor Lastman calling them to clear snow doesn’t count.

Why are lockdowns continuing now? That is a good question, given summer is “here”, people have received one dose, and an unknown amount of the population will have natural immunity. How much, who knows. Just keep in mind, only about 4% of the population has tested positive, even with false positives.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JBen

Is it?
“Just the flu”?

We peaked in March, fell off. Peaked again May. Does the “flu” do that? Don’t know, but don’t think so.

The UK.
Peaked in Jan/Feb. Mid winter. Has drastically fallen off since.

Brazil. Influenza fatalities around or under 1,000/year Covid. Almost 500,000 despite Ivermectin being popular.

Italy.
Fairly temporate climate. One study I had read (done before 2020) reported 70,000 influenza deaths. Covid is around 130,000.
That study, was over a 4 year period.

New York.
I can’t recall a winter in my life, where refrigerated trucks were used as morgues.

GTA
I can’t recall a regular flu season when the army was called in. And no mayor Lastman calling them to clear snow doesn’t count.

Why are lockdowns continuing now? That is a good question, given summer is “here”, people have received one dose, and an unknown amount of the population will have natural immunity. How much, who knows. Just keep in mind, only about 4% of the population has tested positive, even with false positives.

---

It's because the better part of the population of ages 65 and over were protected from the flu.

It they were not there would be great numbers from the influenza virus.


This virus has proven to hit the elderly population.

About 95% of all covid deaths are above the age of 60 over 50 percent of them them died from less than 0.5% of the population or long term care homes.

In Ontario over 4 thousand dead came from just 626 long term care homes.


We are not seeing trucks full of bodies still it was just the in the beginning as it was a new virus it will eventually stabilize .

If we didn't vaccinate the majority of our elders and save thousands of lives each year it would look alot different.



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My Son Inlaw's best friend died from Covid and had no underlying conditions. He was 30 years old.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishfood

It's because the better part of the population of ages 65 and over were protected from the flu.

It they were not there would be great numbers from the influenza virus.


This virus has proven to hit the elderly population.

About 95% of all covid deaths are above the age of 60 over 50 percent of them them died from less than 0.5% of the population or long term care homes.

In Ontario over 4 thousand dead came from just 626 long term care homes.


We are not seeing trucks full of bodies still it was just the in the beginning as it was a new virus it will eventually stabilize .

If we didn't vaccinate the majority of our elders and save thousands of lives each year it would look alot different.



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---

I know all that FF.

Yes, the vast majority are older and or have underlying issues. The same could be said of heart failure and strokes. How many people healthy people under 45 have massive coronaries….nor do we “argue”, yeah but they were obese, or yeah but they ate fast food, and grease all their lives. They are fudging heart attack numbers because A or B. Nope, we accept heart attack as CoD..Despite a family history of Angina, or arteries clogged with cholesterol, or dozens of other reasons people have them, or don’t survive them…

Lots of people get flu shots every year without all the hoopla or fear mongering/agendas/conspiracy theories from either side too…

There’s a thread about WWWii and what they gave. More people in the US have died of Covid in a year , then were killed in action during wwwii.

Etc and so on.

Is it possible, just possible, that there are 3 sides to every story? And the truth….

and yes, the warm weather without a doubt is part of it. I’m sure exactly why they decided to give people 1 shot instead of two. Two words, or two countries. Brazil, and or the UK. And or possibly Sweden, who did nothing, treated it like any other flu, and were punished for it. And are now, like most other countries. Requiring mask, scrambling to vaccinate, (and I think requiring vaccine passports??) etc etc

Quote:

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Originally Posted by impact

Certainly looks like covid behaves like a regular flu season to me. So why all the lockdowns?

"The risk of contracting a second case of COVID-19 is drastically reduced for up to 10 months following a first infection, according to a study of more than 2,000 home care residents and staff"

“It’s really good news that natural infection protects against reinfection in this time period,” said Maria Krutikovl, the study’s lead author from University College London in England. “The risk of being infected twice appears to be very low. The fact that prior COVID-19 infection gives a high level of protection to care home residents is also reassuring, given past concerns that these individuals might have less robust immune responses associated with increasing age."

https://www.healthing.ca/diseases-and-conditions/coronavirus/study-of-covid-reinfection-risk-is-really-good-news

---

Because this was never about protecting people's health. You can't trust the numbers...so many false positives and they can manipulate the tests to suit whatever agenda they choose. Now it looks like we will need 15 different booster shots, just to be able to leave our homes.

Why are many states completely open with no cases? And no it's not "because they are more vaccinated" as many will claim...they opened long before that. Why can politicians dine together, galavant around the globe and gather mask-free? Meanwhile everyone who has had 2 vaccine doses still can't do much of anything...so what was the incentive? The goal posts keep shifting and everyone has very short memories.

Based on what factual, empirical data can you claim it’s not because of vaccines…

Fairy dust?

I don’t get it.
Despite virtually the entire world, read that again. The entire worldseeing drastic fall offs (now and during winter months) after starting to vax the population….Just because some few believe otherwise, doesn’t make it so….and it would go a long way, a long long way, if people could just a few countries, that aren’t showing/experiencing the same. Or even just 2 or 3 countries like Sweden. Who, didn’t/aren’t and can show better.
they don’t exist..

it’s like “arguing” the world is flat, but I got nothing. Or climate change, when the vast vast vast majority of experts….Say it real ( man made vs natural a separate debate).

Quasi related.
NYC is almost back to “normal”. Office towers on Wall Street about to reopen thanks to close to 70% being vaccinated.

No doubt, the evil, far right, captilist CEOs are in on all the fake news, falsifying data, gullible sheep too.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/16/inves...ice/index.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bushwhacker

Why are many states completely open with no cases? And no it's not "because they are more vaccinated" as many will claim...they opened long before that.

---

Well that isn't actually true. They had 14,000 cases on June 16th, but that is drastically down from the peak of their 3rd wave, which they had before we did. And they were significantly more vaccinated than Canada when their 3rd wave started to reduce. Whether you believe in the vaccine or not, there actually is a relationship between US covid case decline and vaccine's administered, as we are now seeing in Canada.

Perhaps that isn't the reason as some believe, but they do correspond despite your claim that they don't. Perhaps just a fluke, but the relationship is there, so claiming its not isn't helping your claims.

Add on top of that the seasonal decline in these types of things, which being more southern they have earlier than Canada in a general sense, it seems pretty logical to me that they saw a decline before we did.

I get it that you don't believe in the entire thing, and that's cool, I'm not trying to change your mind, but to claim they manipulate data to match their agenda, then use false claims to support your agenda seems a bit hypocritical.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JBen

Quasi related.
NYC is almost back to “normal”. Office towers on Wall Street about to reopen thanks to close to 70% being vaccinated.

---

If you look at the vaccine tracker New York is only 58 % first dose where Ontario it up to 66%

The entire population of the USA is only 53 percent first dose. Canada is up 66 by I just read something that said Canada was up over 70.

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Fishfood.
You said much the same a week or two ago. And I had to point out the most important figure is the percentage fully vaccinated. Did you ignore that?

Yes, there are fewer people with one dose there. That’s because unlike us, they are focused on getting people fully vaxxed and have the supply.

Vaccine tracker NY
1 dose: 58% (a little less than us)

TWO doses: 51% way way way ahead of us.

Basically ONT and NY have 100 people and 100 needles.

Ont. giving everyone 1 shot.
New York. 50% two shots ( with 8% more getting 2nd dose in a week or two)

The difference is huge…astronomical..

As Fishhog said.
People can believe whatever they want. It would help, if there was something…other than just…

and for point of reference. Are the greedy CEOs of Bay streets banks and hedge funds demanding the towers be full again come Sept???

I won't deny that the vaccines help but who really needs it? What classifies as an emergency ? We shouldn't be pushing an experimental vaccine to the mass population when the mass population has 99.9 percent survival rate

Like mentioned before we can save 95 percent of the lives lost with just 20% of the population.

What I am not ok with is the short term study no pregnant women or breastfeeding women in the study or children under 18 but it's ok they can have the shot too.

How many meds get cancelled after they have been approved and put on the market ?

This vaccine has not yet been approved only an emergency use only meaning they can Skip past a bunch of steps to get it out the door faster. We are doing a big experiment and using the people as guinea pigs. Not cool .


If its going to save lives then that's cool but we need to look who needs them . About half the deaths came from less than 0.5 percent of the population. Long-term care homes were hit hard and there is less than 200 thousand living in long term care homes in Canada .

With 95 percent of the deaths coming from 60 plus . That is about 20 percent of the population with 5 % of the deaths coming from 80 percent of the population






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"In light of our findings that more than half of individuals with positive PCR test results are unlikely to have been infectious, RT-PCR test positivity should not be taken as an accurate measure of infectious SARS-CoV-2 incidence. Our results confirm the findings of others that the routine use of “positive” RT-PCR test results as the gold standard for assessing and controlling infectiousness fails to reflect the fact “that 50-75% of the time an individual is PCR positive, they are likely to be post-infectious”

"Asymptomatic individuals with positive RT-PCR test results have higher Ct values and a lower probability of being infectious than symptomatic individuals with positive results. Although Ct values have been shown to be inversely associated with viral load and infectivity, there is no international standardization across laboratories, rendering problematic the interpretation of RT-PCR tests when used as a tool for mass screening."

https://www.journalofinfection.com/a...265-6/fulltext

That kind of stuff is more subjective. Actually not unlike Climate Change stuff and what we can do about it, or do differently.

There is no way, short or antigen test, to know how much of the population has established natural immunity. If we look at Sweden……..they went that route, got punished, brought in SD and are now vaccinating people as fast as they can.

Here.
Just 4% of the population has tested positive. If you ( not you specifically) argue false positives are why case counts are so high…then we should assume only about 2.5% of the population was positive.

Estimates for a symptomatic people range from 25% to 75/80%.

Based on 200 or 300 percent. Postives might be in the area of 10-15% of the population with natural immunity.

Many also think asymptomatic are responsible for a lot of the spread. Makes sense. Sick people stay home…:)

Well if only 2-3% of the pop has developed symptoms enough to get tested….can’t be that many asymptotatic host walking around :)

At the end of the day, there’s virtually nothing that supports vaccines aren’t responsible for drastic fall offs. A ton that is, does not the least of which is virtually the entire world seeing the same, despite widely ranging variables like weather/seasonal temps. Policies around Social distancing/lockdowns ( few, moderate, strict). Social patterns, economic differences (rich or poor countries), population density and more….basically countless variables.

A common denominator.
Drastic falloffs after vaccines…

J Ben how many are actually recorded ?

I was Ill back in 2019 many people got the same thing not one of them has had it since or have had covid.

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I do know a few that has had covid but not of the people that may have thought they had it from the beginning. In tested March of last year.

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At the end of the day, stop testing healthy people, resume normal life, the people who want a seasonal flu shot can have it and end the scamdemic rhetoric. Otherwise, the governments are contributing to a "Crime against Humanity"
All 10 Nuremberg code principles have been violated with the experimental vaccines.


https://i.imgur.com/5Ww08Cz.jpg

The UK is currently experiencing an exponential increase in cases despite being heavily vaccinated.

The common denominator is no longer common...

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by GW11

The UK is currently experiencing an exponential increase in cases despite being heavily vaccinated.

The common denominator is no longer common...

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk

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Well that's odd......that's not what the media is saying......actually.....the media has been quiet on this......weird......:) Almost like it doesn't fit the narrative.......

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishfood

J Ben how many are actually recorded ?

I was Ill back in 2019 many people got the same thing not one of them has had it since or have had covid.

Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

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That in part is why estimates for asymptotic people and natural immunity are all over the map.. so be generous.

Assume for every person that is tested, and is actually positive. There’s another person ( 100%) or three. That still works out to about <10% of the population…

assume 700%
maybe around 15% with natural immunity.

Anecdotally. If you have 100 friends. How many did or think they might have had it? If just 2% of the population has tested positive. With a positivity rate about the same..

Can’t be that many asymptomatic or sick, but not tested people spreading it……

Me, I know a handful diagnosed with it or suspect they might have had it.
From hundreds.

It’s funny in a way, because there have been threads about how “serious” it is etc etc. calling everything into question. Want to choose to believe data is being manipulated? We can. But then all data, from everywhere/country is dirty bath water. Including….

so
how many people do you personally know. If a lot, that suggest a lot of people spreading it. If just a few….

which means “natural immunity”….is a long way off….

the rest is just like climate change and what can be done, should be done etc etc

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LiveBates

Well that's odd......that's not what the media is saying......actually.....the media has been quiet on this......weird......:) Almost like it doesn't fit the narrative.......

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you should perhaps watch different news. I saw coverage of that exact issue on CTV last night, saying they are holding off on their planned reopening due to this increase.

Its easy to just say stuff thinking/hoping its correct, but when its just false, then its no better then the fear mongering the media is promoting. If were going to call out the media and politicians for lies and fear mongering, shouldn't we hold ourselves to that standard as well?

Just with respect to the “Delta” variant.?

The UK peaked in late Jan. Then fell off. Data ( that’s almost becoming a dirty word ;) ) shows it’s predominantly hitting young age groups..those not vaccinated.

Isn’t it summer in the UK?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JBen

Just with respect to the “Delta” variant.?

The UK peaked in late Jan. Then fell off. Data ( that’s almost becoming a dirty word ;) ) shows it’s predominantly hitting young age groups..those not vaccinated.

Isn’t it summer in the UK?

---

I was waiting for that...lol. The UK has a vastly different climate than ours and it's not so much about "summer" as RH. The UK is at its driest in May and June.

My guess is that variants are infecting vaccinated people too, but that doesn't fit the narrative so it isn't reported. It must be just young unvaccinated people driving the spread... or so we're told.

If it isn't the Delta variant, what's next? There will be others, that's how it works.

Like so many other things with this, wait and see.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by FishHog

you should perhaps watch different news. I saw coverage of that exact issue on CTV last night, saying they are holding off on their planned reopening due to this increase.

Its easy to just say stuff thinking/hoping its correct, but when its just false, then its no better then the fear mongering the media is promoting. If were going to call out the media and politicians for lies and fear mongering, shouldn't we hold ourselves to that standard as well?

---

Sure....sounds great....please list off the news I "Should" be listening too.....I will add it to the all the others I don't listen to. You have to realize, from what I've seen over the last year and a half, I don't believe any of them. I look into reports when I need to once every few weeks, but other than that, I'm usually fishing or boating. As far as I'm concerned....all media lost they're standards long ago.......and in an odd way, I kinda' feel bad for those that dedicate majority of the time believing what the hear on mainstream......

There was supposed to be a smiley after that.

Their climate is temperate. Compared to us, they don’t get the extremes. Warmer winters ( well above 0) and cooler summers. Their traditional flu season is exactly like ours, Dec-Mar.
Their case counts fell drastically in Feb. Their spring is a lot like ours though with average temps in the teens…..just like us. They are also far more densely populated.

Can we think of reasons why they might be so different from us. Other than vaccines or a world wide manipulation of data?

They are around 50% fully vaccinated. That’s still half the population not.

I guess one thing to look for is fatalities. If fatalities flatline, but new cases spike. That might suggest fewer people 50+ are getting it, and it is predominantly younger people. Cases up, deaths down.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JBen

There was supposed to be a smiley after that.

Their climate is temperate. Compared to us, they don’t get the extremes. Warmer winters ( well above 0) and cooler summers. Their traditional flu season is exactly like ours, Dec-Mar.
Their case counts fell drastically in Feb. Their spring is a lot like ours though with average temps in the teens…..just like us. They are also far more densely populated.

Can we think of reasons why they might be so different from us. Other than vaccines or a world wide manipulation of data?

They are around 50% fully vaccinated. That’s still half the population not.

I guess one thing to look for is fatalities. If fatalities flatline, but new cases spike. That might suggest fewer people 50+ are getting it, and it is predominantly younger people. Cases up, deaths down.

---

No worries JBen, I caught the tone that time... all good.

That might be the case. We'll see it unfold there over the next few weeks. It's definitely the angle of the MSM.

I'm mostly curious about how it will be reported and how many infections are truly just amongst unvaccinated younger people. If enough older people are already vaccinated (or were previously infected), shouldn't the cycle of transmission be interrupted to the point that we no longer see huge spikes? They haven't hit numbers like that yet, but it's headed in that direction.

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If there’s some good to come of this. Maybe 3-5 years down the road, it’s that there is a sort of reset. But one driven by soceity not political groups. One where people are treated a little more “equally”, and one where MSM and journalism is less sensationalism (fear mongering) because that’s what sells to the respective bases ( both vote and readership)….The dog wags the tail, not vice versa.

If I had to bet my house today. There will be yearly boosters, or like flu shots, made and delivered to deal with the different strains.

With respect to younger people. Makes sense regardless of strains. If the majority of those 45+ Which in Canada is more than 50% of the population. We are an aging population ( birth/death ratios)…

Well, what’s the big deal…
As long as those that might flood ICUs/Hospitals and “the curve is flattened”…

Or have they forgotten that.
:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LiveBates

Sure....sounds great....please list off the news I "Should" be listening too.....I will add it to the all the others I don't listen to. You have to realize, from what I've seen over the last year and a half, I don't believe any of them. I look into reports when I need to once every few weeks, but other than that, I'm usually fishing or boating. As far as I'm concerned....all media lost they're standards long ago.......and in an odd way, I kinda' feel bad for those that dedicate majority of the time believing what the hear on mainstream......

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Your initial post said "Well that's odd......that's not what the media is saying......actually.....the media has been quiet on this......weird...... Almost like it doesn't fit the narrative......."
I replied that the news is in fact covering it and you reply with the above???

Not sure what part of your initial post I miss understood, but clearly I missed something based on your reply as it makes no sense based on what I quoted.

If you don't listen to the media then why in the world would you post about what the media isn't covering ?

100,000 fans at indy, 17,000 ufc, no masks are we awake yet....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by canadaman30

100,000 fans at indy, 17,000 ufc, no masks are we awake yet....

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Good old Canada...last one out of the gate in dealing with an emerging Pandemic and now floundering trying to find the finish line.

Must be poor leadership :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by canadaman30

100,000 fans at indy, 17,000 ufc, no masks are we awake yet....

---

They have more vaccines in arms lol.

Jk [emoji13] we have the same or more as they did when they opened lol. But we are closed and can't open yet as it is to risky lol.





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Covid Vaccine serious side effects happened to hundreds it says in the report. If its happened to hundreds of people covid has only killed hundreds of people under the age of 50. Is it worth the unknowns.

Government will only pay out of its caused life long or permanent damage. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/fri...tion-1.6052222

Was with an old pall today he said he knows of a person who is paralyzed from the shot. His parents just came back from Mexico without any shots. He said people at work only got it to travel he will not get the vaccine either LoL.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by FishHog

Well that isn't actually true. They had 14,000 cases on June 16th, but that is drastically down from the peak of their 3rd wave, which they had before we did. And they were significantly more vaccinated than Canada when their 3rd wave started to reduce. Whether you believe in the vaccine or not, there actually is a relationship between US covid case decline and vaccine's administered, as we are now seeing in Canada.

Perhaps that isn't the reason as some believe, but they do correspond despite your claim that they don't. Perhaps just a fluke, but the relationship is there, so claiming its not isn't helping your claims.

Add on top of that the seasonal decline in these types of things, which being more southern they have earlier than Canada in a general sense, it seems pretty logical to me that they saw a decline before we did.

I get it that you don't believe in the entire thing, and that's cool, I'm not trying to change your mind, but to claim they manipulate data to match their agenda, then use false claims to support your agenda seems a bit hypocritical.

---

Do you honestly doubt the msm's ability/desire to manipulate information? That is an incredibly naive position...

There have been many false positives recorded. Many of the covid 'deaths' were people dying with covid, not of covid. They never mention the comorbidities. There are billions on the line and Johnson & Johnson has been in some legal hot water over their baby powder causing cancer. Moderna was in a lot of trouble before the covid vaccines came out. Many stand to benefit from selling & promoting the vaccines. Almost every major media outlet in the US shared at least 1 board member with at least 1 pharmaceutical company. Drug companies spent 5 billion a year advertising with these media outlets.

100's of doctors & medical professionals who dared question the narrative have been banned. Cases of vaccine-related deaths/complications have been downplayed. Why all is this if there is no agenda?

I still haven't heard 1 common sense public health message or commercial reminding people about the importance of healthy lifestyle & building their immune system naturally. The effectiveness of vitamins & zinc, etc. Instead it's just people endlessly obsessing over case counts alone. Gyms closed, parks closed, kids sports cancelled. Father ticketed in Oakville last year for taking his young boys outside to rollerblade. It's absurd.

I'm not saying that the vaccines are completely ineffective. They very well could be. I am saying there is no evidence to support the theory that they are responsible for many places being completely open. We are still the most locked-down despite many people being vaccinated here.

I also never claimed to disbelieve the entire thing. I believe the virus exists. I am simply questioning the severity of a virus with a 99% survival rate, the hypocrisy, as well as the embarrassing & tyrannical response from our leaders. We should all be questioning these things & standing up for our freedoms.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JBen

Based on what factual, empirical data can you claim it’s not because of vaccines…

Fairy dust?

I don’t get it.
Despite virtually the entire world, read that again. The entire worldseeing drastic fall offs (now and during winter months) after starting to vax the population….Just because some few believe otherwise, doesn’t make it so….and it would go a long way, a long long way, if people could just a few countries, that aren’t showing/experiencing the same. Or even just 2 or 3 countries like Sweden. Who, didn’t/aren’t and can show better.
they don’t exist..

it’s like “arguing” the world is flat, but I got nothing. Or climate change, when the vast vast vast majority of experts….Say it real ( man made vs natural a separate debate).

Quasi related.
NYC is almost back to “normal”. Office towers on Wall Street about to reopen thanks to close to 70% being vaccinated.

No doubt, the evil, far right, captilist CEOs are in on all the fake news, falsifying data, gullible sheep too.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/16/inves...ice/index.html

---

Based on what evidence can you claim it is? The onus would be on you to prove the efficacy of the vaccines in relation to reopening. And to prove the reporting on cases is accurate and non-falsifiable. Factual & empirical are two different things.

What if there are additional variants? Do we stay locked down forever? The trouble here is that we have been conditioned to view our freedom as selfish & just submit to the so-called 'experts', regardless of their dubious interests & tenuous connection to reality.

1) where could we look for an example or illustration that would strongly suggest ( not prove) that vaccines are mainly responsible or only partly responsible.

I personally don’t know if that place exist. Because the world isn’t a lab, where all variables, and anomalies can be controlled or accounted for ( as with moving averages which are good for smoothing something out, but only do so much.

Climate
The Southern Hemisphere is entering their winter. If no vaccines we should see spikes soon, if not by now. Brazil’s typical flu season is about 1,000 deaths, (could be off it’s been a long time since I looked). Their Covid fatalities are extreme, way more and that despite widespread use of ivermectin.

Sweden?
They tried the no SD approach and got punished, but can we look there? Not really, no SD…

US states with climates similar to ours? They are way ahead of us where it would matter. Two doses

S. Africa?
Ok, how’s Israel doing?
India? Holy hades that place is hot..most of the year….getting crushed.But also densely populated and many places impoverished ( we know it hits the disadvantage hard, they generally don’t eat well…….

Co-morbities
“Fair enough”
But why is it, when we argue it’s no different than the flu. We aren’t discounting a lot of flu deaths. What the flu kills young healthy people…….”just saying”. Or do we just accept that the flu killed them.

MSM/profits/people taking advantage of this or that.

Lol, when has that never been the case….and for that matter how many of us, wouldn’t jump at a chance to make bazillions, or 100k.
We’re many people not jumping all over the game stop short squeeze……

The only, only way to really know, are antigen test..good luck with that. Most people will see that as more stripping of freedoms and proof of some other conspiracy.

All that said.
Despite 1,000 variables and anomoloies ( maybe some country had an unseasonably warm/cold fall winter)…

There are very few, if any places, not seeing serious drop offs, whether June is the start of summer, or winter, whether strict or loose with lockdowns, etc.

Re the flu -- that's a good question.

I would say that in the absence of any overt & desperate politicization, we should assume statistics are accurate. But with so many smoking guns piling up and people explicitly stating that the tests aren't accurate, it becomes suspect. The shifting goal posts and lack of consensus. The back-pedalling & flip flopping.

The 'fake news' has been brilliantly exposed during the past few years thanks to the Trump administration. It was never like that before, and people are waking up to that. People always knew reporters spun stories to a certain degree to make them more palatable or exciting, but there was such a thing as journalistic integrity & commitment to the truth once upon a time. We now live in a completely simulated 'post-truth' era, where ​whoever shouts the loudest is right. It's unfortunate, because it has become increasingly more difficult to find the truth.
​
The flu does not often kill healthy, young people. It DISPROPORTIONALLY (there's that word liberals don't seem to understand) affects older people with underlying health conditions...Furthermore, The flu hasn't been politicized like Covid. It's maybe 30-40% in terms of who gets the flu shot, and it's completely optional...with no warnings about not being able to travel, etc. It's also suggested for more elderly people. Not kids like they are doing with this one, without parents consent. But hey, at least they get free ice cream!

Life has risks. There is a very small % you can die from a bad cold, but many don't. There is small % you will get hit by a drunk driver while you are walking the dog down your street. But most people don't. You don't ban dog walking for 15 months because of this. 300 new cases in a province of 14.6 million is negligible by any metric, and of those cases many are false positives and very very few will see serious complications or death. Time to open up.

/smile

That’s a main reason, even though it has very little to do with the discussion surrounding vaccines and are they, are they not mainly responsible. I “inserted” that in the middle

We don’t when talking about or comparing to the flu, say “yeah it kills X number per year, but half of those have underlying issues”. We just accept the flu killed them. And yet, in 2020/2021.

That’s one thing worth a lot of thought.

In the Delta thread, which seems to be spiking…in late June…when has the flu ever done that? Never?

Is there a 3rd possibility, that might, just might. Explain why the flu that isn’t a flu, functions ( key word) oh so much like the flu?


Proof? Or things that suggest…including “possibly” why vaccines are working well…..

So in Stage 2, Level 2 ... whatever the government is calling it now ... restaurants STILL cannot have indoor dining.
Is this head doctor on crack or something??

We have like 5 covid cases a day in the entirety of Halton ... and you are keep restaurants closed for indoor dining, not
even with distancing, and all the hygiene they are practicing?? This Ontario head doctor is a full on dumb moron. Many restaurants, when
it rains, cannot host people on their patios. This is just blatant abuse of power.

Not the flu, it's caused by influenza viruses.

Coronaviruses are common cold viruses.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GW11

Not the flu, it's caused by influenza viruses.

Coronaviruses are common cold viruses.

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Accurate but a little bit simplified.

The flu is an Orthomyxo virus which is a completely different family of viruses than the Corona family.

Most Corona viruses are not common cold viruses. There are hundreds of different Corona viruses and of those only 4 cause the common cold. So only a tiny % are cold viruses. Stating they are Common Cold viruses is analogous to stating that humans are Russians when in fact only 1.9% of the humans in the world are actually Russians.

There are also 100s of viruses from different viral families that cause the common cold so additionally those 4 species only make up a tiny % of possible causes for the Cold. The majority of Common Cold viruses are Rhino viruses.

In addition to the 4 species that cause the Cold there are 3 more that cause other respiratory diseases, namely SARS with a mortality rate of 14%, second being MERS with a fatality rate of 35% and lastly the current SARS 2 aka COVID 19 with a mortality rate <1%.

Couple other things, that imo are worth thought.

We know MSM and groups with vested interest spin stuff. All media, ( they have bases they cater to), all groups have vested interest.

We always said. Numbers don’t “lie” ( quoted to denote emphasis), people do.

For the past 14 months, our heads have been filled case counts. Daily, ad nauseum. It’s been the first thing we think about, read about when we wake up, and the last thing before bed.

Flatten the curve.
I’ve mentioned that a few times. Why are our heads being inundated with a statistic that is for lack of better words meaningless. Smoke or cloudy fog…

If 1,000 people test positive “today”. So what. 950 of them don’t end up in the hospital or ICU. Stay home, drink water, sleep, take two aspirin and call me in the morning….

What was supposed to matter, does and did matter, still matters. Is hospital capacity/hospitalizations. “Flatten the curve”…

We also used to say
“Focus people” ( I don’t mean anyone here). What’s important, and what isn’t. The rest is just

Noise

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Species8472

The flu is an Orthomyxo virus which is a completely different family of viruses than the Corona family.

---

Saw an interview with the CEO of Maderna, who said their using the new mRNA technology to make a combined shot vaccine that will be used to vaccinate for both the H1N1 type flues and the Covid 'colds'....once a year shot for Humanity :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Species8472

Accurate but a little bit simplified.

The flu is an Orthomyxo virus which is a completely different family of viruses than the Corona family.

Most Corona viruses are not common cold viruses. There are hundreds of different Corona viruses and of those only 4 cause the common cold. So only a tiny % are cold viruses. Stating they are Common Cold viruses is analogous to stating that humans are Russians when in fact only 1.9% of the humans in the world are actually Russians.

There are also 100s of viruses from different viral families that cause the common cold so additionally those 4 species only make up a tiny % of possible causes for the Cold. The majority of Common Cold viruses are Rhino viruses.

In addition to the 4 species that cause the Cold there are 3 more that cause other respiratory diseases, namely SARS with a mortality rate of 14%, second being MERS with a fatality rate of 35% and lastly the current SARS 2 aka COVID 19 with a mortality rate <1%.

---

Correct, I left the post simple because I've posted it many times here already. Coronaviruses make up around 25% of common colds. Rhinoviruses make up the majority of the others. Most of us have had a coronavirus infection at some time or another. They're common enough with colds.

The point is COVID-19 is more closely associated with a common cold than anything else we know. It's time to stop the "flu" comparison, it was never even comparable.

Notice how the flu is gone but colds aren't?

The “common cold”, still has a season much like the flu. Generally from Sept to April.

It spreads easier in colder temps, when there’s less humidity, and, that’s coupled with people spending more time indoors, as well.

But yep, the flu that isn’t a flu. Which begs some questions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MarkB

So in Stage 2, Level 2 ... whatever the government is calling it now ... restaurants STILL cannot have indoor dining.
Is this head doctor on crack or something??

We have like 5 covid cases a day in the entirety of Halton ... and you are keep restaurants closed for indoor dining, not
even with distancing, and all the hygiene they are practicing?? This Ontario head doctor is a full on dumb moron. Many restaurants, when
it rains, cannot host people on their patios. This is just blatant abuse of power.

---

but dining in a tent is still 'indoor' dining lol... these 'health' regulations are just completely mental

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bushwhacker

but dining in a tent is still 'indoor' dining lol... these 'health' regulations are just completely mental

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Not if it only has 2 walls on it it's still classified an outdoor activity.

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