"Landescapes" Ben Samaan has bought old Domtar property and is renegotiating leases. If you can't come to an agreement the camp has to remove or pay to have removed all buildings. Some camps have been there for 35+ years.
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Well,that's progress,isn't it? A new owner with a new broom sweeps clean. At 67K acres,it'll be interesting to see what they do with it. Where is this old Domtar property? What is Landescape and who is Ben Samaan?
If it's private property and has been since before the camps were set up where's the problem. Just a land owner exercising his/her legal rights. Sure it sucks for those that are going to lose their leases but that is always a risk with leasing - nothing new. Pros and cons to leasing vs owning - this is one of the cons where leasing is concerned.
Thinking this might be land somewhere north east of Madoc. If so lots of old established camps in the area.
What price per acres would that have went for
I think IIRC, Gilroy either had or has a camp up there. I wonder if he was given a notice?Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaman30
Not quite as cut and dried as you suggest. The links I supplied below are from a landowner/lease dispute for an area just north of the Sault. The lessee's won! In fact, the landowners got a spanking, as well they should have, and slithered away.Quote:
Originally Posted by Species8472
http://campgrounds.pgtto.com/?page_id=555
https://www.mondaq.com/canada/landlo...es-corporation
Hunt camps are a lot different than cottages or trailers used as a cottage by a single family where the law is concerned. Cottagers in the affected area would have a case though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushmoose
Hunt camps would have to prove that they are in fact residences as defined by the Residential Tenancies Act to have a chance - pretty unlikely.
Up here, the term "camp" refers to cottage. In fact, using the word "cottage" up here will identify you as a southerner and probably exclude a person from being invited to the evening fire? LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by Species8472
I was close to being involved with this case but I had sold my place a year prior. Nevertheless, the term hunt camp, fish camp or summer camp was a common term used by most of the folks that won this case. The term used to identify ones camp or cottage, if you will, I don't think had a huge bearing on the outcome?
Camp, cottage, trailer etc whatever you call it is irrelevant. What matters is whether the definition of "residence" as defined in the Residential Tenancy Act applies. A camp, cottage, trailer etc used in multiple seasons by the same family for multiple recreational purposes qualifies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushmoose
A makeshift shack used for hunting only by 12 different guys for 2 weeks in November - not so much and in the area in question that is the norm.
So those camps used year round for multiple purposes by one family probably have a chance anything else not so much. It will also depend on who is listed on the lease agreement. Less and from one family is better.
And for the record I only mentioned cottages because that is what the northerners called them in the legal decisions that you linked.
Also in my mind having lived in Peawanuck for several years anybody from South of Pickle Lake lives in Southern Ontario.
No harm, no foul meant. But being a northerner, it gives me glee to jab the southern folks at every opportunity that rolls along. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Species8472
Regardless of the term used, it will probably come down to the wording of the lease. That's "if" the lessee's group together and challenge it.
None taken. I know you love to jab southerners. But in riposte the Sault is southern Ontario as far as i'm concerned:moose::moose:. Spent more time in traffic jams on 17 along the north shore than i ever have on the back roads around here and for the record i actually spend more time at my place outside North Bay than any where else - but it too is Southern Ontario as far as I'm concerned. Unless ice out is after May 31 it is Southern Ontario:D.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushmoose
As for how it plays out neither of us actually has a clue as to whether they have any legal legs to stand on. But my guess is if they are 2 week camps they are screwed as the RTA specifically says those type of seasonal stays are not protected. Actually have given testimony at RTA hearings as a professional witness on behalf of some big bad landlords regarding infrastructure provided to renters.
If you are ever out around Markdale/Flesherton shoot me a pm and we can throw back a few wobbly pops around the fire at my deer camp (owned not leased).
This covers blocks of wooded land mostly in Hastings county. Lease costs traditionally were around $4.50 per acre. So a 500 acre lease was appox. $2250/yr. Now it could be as much as $5000/person/yr. These camps had rules, respected the land and kept poachers off. Approximately 1000 hunters effected. I guess the underlying concern here is that the Feds gave this private citizen an extremely large grant to proceed. Effectively ending hundreds of hunters ability to hunt.
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The feds gave a private citizen a grant to buy the property? I smell a politician or a relative with the fingers in the cookie jar. A 67K acre windmill farm,maybe,or to offset The Algonguin Land Claim? As soon as the word "grant" or "politician" gets involved,I smell a stinkin' outhouse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted
i was talking to a few different people that know a few members that hunt there.
One said they have to be out of there by September 1 other one said they will be allowed to hunt there this fall but that's the end.
There are some very nice camps in there.
I grew up in the south, not my fault, and we always went to camp, friends would call it the cottage but they would be wrong, ha ha ha.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushmoose
Sorry, but not sorry - you are correct Private Property rights are paramount and take precedence over the camps. Crummy situation, but I agree with new land owner. MY FIL and his 30 yr deer group just got told by the owner no more deer hunting on the property. They have done years of improvements and work on the property and the husband was part of the group, he passed last spring. The widow just decided it would be too painful to have the boys back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Species8472
Update: I've done a little more research. This new owner seems to have an understanding of the concerns and history of these camps. He has shown a willingness to work with camps at least in the short term. Leases can be extended at least through this years hunting seasons. Renegotiating will continue next year. [emoji1696] Being a conservationist his main concern is the few camps that have shown disrespect for the land they have been charged with ( old vehicles, garbage and the like) again proving that the few can ruin it for everyone... Hoping for the best
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Talked with my local sources only yesterday before reading this post as I am just back from up north. So all the Domtar lands south and east of me are gone to this guy. I knew something was wrong as he has set up a gate post's on a Township Road and has posted Private property on both sides of the "road allowance", so the Township has done "nothing" about that aspect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted
The other info is that the land base extends right across to Limerick and the money came from the Federal Government and the owner will be declaring this land a nature Preserve, no hunting. I cannot verify if this is accurate or not or just local talk.
So between this and the Algonquin land claims in the same area hunting opportunities just got a little tighter.
Oh my, you may not want to Google Bark Lake/Century LaneQuote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
Well,that was enlightening. Lifestyles of the rich and famous.Quote:
Originally Posted by contaucreek
What business does the Federal government have giving grants to a private company to purchase Canadian property?
Oh I don't know maybe that will announce that they have "preserved" x number of acres for tree planting and nature reserves and declare they are saving us from global warming and preserving wildlife. If you look at the recent Moose draw results I think these politicians are all on the same page. Pretty soon you will not be able to cut down a tree on your own property or kill an animal. LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by cath8r
I think it would be interesting to know how much money a big timber company like Domtar made from these deal's, what kind of tax write off or other inventive tax return's they will file.
In the end the Canadian taxpayer is paying to create "nature preserves" and cut down on their own hunting opportunities.
Next target will be Crown lands.....
Possibly Justin's saving trees so he has something to print the money our country is living on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
It appears with cost of lumber, there's more profits printing money instead of "building our economy",and homes for the working population.
The last many months of job number reports shows how badly Justin has failed to deliver.
A whole lot of speculation, rumour and hearsay in this thread. Any article written from local news sources?
WELL.......Quote:
Originally Posted by blasted_saber
The guy named in post #1 appears as a Director in a charity called Kawartha Land Trust which is a listed charitable organization with CRA. This link can follow some of the cash here and where it stems from https://www.charitydir.com/charities/879086718RR0001
www.kawarthalandtrust.org doesn't have his name listed as a trustee or as being on the Board of Directors that I can see. Ben Samaan is the owner of Viamede Resort on Stony Lake. If you want a real treat in Ontario,that's a beautiful place to crash for a weekend or a even week. I've been there a couple of times for various functions and highly recommend it. The trust is buying up or is having property donated to it for purely conservation projects. Several charter members are former OMNRF retired staffers. Other than many of the listed properties are open to the public while some aren't,hunting is not a permitted activity on any of them. I was told unofficially that the OFAH offered financial support in return for hunting opportunities,but,inquiries went unanswered. It sure looks like those 70 camps will be looking for new digs in the very near future.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
I picked up on that discrepancy right away but did not want to complicate the post to much, something smell's a little fishy in all this deal. "In 2016, Viamede Resort partnered with the Kawartha Land Trust to expand the trail network that runs through and around the property.'Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
Mr Samaan appears to be running a tight shift and has permit's available to allow neighboring cottage's access to their properties via his land holdings. If you look at the crowd running the Kawartha Land Trust their is no way hunters are going to get anything from them, essentially taxpayer's money is being used to cut off access to other taxpayer's i.e. hunters.
I agree. Seeing as how they have no problem using taxpayer funding no matter which convoluted way it's accessed,maybe in light of their unwillingness to allow hunting,we should,at the very least,have their charitable status withdrawn. This whole thing reminds me of Robert Shad and The Shad Foundation that tried the backdoor approach with canceling the spring Bear hunt in the late 1990's by the Harris PC's. We all remember how that worked out,don't we?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
I think Gilroy owns his land.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
I wonder........
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busi...sequestration/
I just hit their Pay Wall. Do you have the Cole's Notes version?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
Our camp is welcoming 2 displaced Domtar hunters. Their lease on the 100ac camp was to be $4000 this year.
A subsidiary of Manulife Financial Corp. lhas bought a large tract of forest in Maine to maintain as a carbon sink and source of revenue from third-party emitters seeking offsets in a growing voluntary market.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
Boston-based Hancock Natural Resource Group Inc. has acquired more than 36,000 hectares of timberland along the border with Quebec. It will use the investment to generate income from selling carbon offsets and harvesting timber.
Just another little update on this thread.
Somebody up in Bancroft just donated another 12,000 acres to this organization thought the Nature Conservancy of Canada, so it looks like that will be lost to hunters AND that is being added to another 26,000 acres that will be part of the " Hastings Wildlife Junction"
https://www.quintenews.com/2021/10/2...near-bancroft/
Nowhere in Landescapes VISION is hunting considered? https://landescapes.org/the-park/
I see that the OFAH have dipped their feet in these waters https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...-property.html
There may be good intentions but from what I am hearing from a fraternal friend, hunters will be getting shut out and this will be death by a thousand cuts.
From my information this 26,000 acres will be in addition to the already 67,000 acres which is the subject of this post. Also [COLOR=#000000]and is adjacent to more than 30,000 hectares (74,312 acres) of Crown lands that have been specially designated as enhanced management areas due to their unique feature......
The Domtar land's which have are currently leased by hunters will go from $1.00 an acre lease to $4.00 a acre.
There is pressure on hunters to remove buildings and camps?
Some of the townships are asking $400.00 for a demolition permit.
Still trying to track down where Landescapes and Kawartha Land Trust got all the cash to purchase this initial 67,000acres?
My wife says this will end up being like a Banff scenario with nature trails, bird watching, and a few big Hotel Resorts, but hunters can forget about it.
The Nature Conservancy of Canada may have been the money people behind this purchase.
Update https://www.intelligencer.ca/news/pl...dlife-junction
BINGO
“It’s our intention that there would be limited hunting on these lands in accordance with how it is occurring currently and how it has occurred historically.”
Ferguson said research into the land and its wildlife is ongoing; Samann said he also made “stop-gap” agreements for this fall with some hunting groups.
There has also been contact with owners of surrounding properties and there is “absolutely” interest in further deals with people who want to be involved in such conservation work, she said. She also said there isn’t currently a big push to acquire more land there.