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Almost annually, the topic of the requirement for hunter orange helmet or helmet cover comes up. This issue was answered in this months Out of Doors magazine, by Dave Critchlow, MNRF Enforcement.
Its a good read ! The nuts and bolts of the article are that if you are riding your ATV, looking for game, which you would get off the bike and shoot, you are hunting, and hunter orange helmet or helmet cover is required.
Do you have a link? Something with that doesn't quite sound right. I would like to read his interpretation because I don't think that's established case law. He might be mistaken.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
No link, it’s in the magazine. It goes to what I’ve said all along. Maybe someone with a digital edition can supply a link…Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
Well if you look at the definition of hunting, searching, laying in wait, and a bunch of other things, driving around with a weapon to complete the act, that's hunting. We have always worn either an orange helmet cover or orange helmet. Rather than taking the helmet off to change to an orange hat or toque, you're already good.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
I read that in the magazine. Now did i read it right a reg colour helmet over hunter orange hat was legalQuote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
I've never worn an orange helmet simply because there's no helmet on the market that match color swatches carried by CO's. I get off my ATV,switch my helmet for an orange cap before starting to hunt. That's not an offense and where I think Mr.Chritchlow might have erred in his answer.
Well what if I leave the ATV in the back of my Truck and then go get it to retrieve the deer I shot? Technically I am not hunting.
Some people drive a truck or car to their stand or hunting area, do they wear an orange hat while driving?
I always wear my orange but at some point they need to use a bit of sense and consider the purpose of the law. Non hunting ATV riders can wear whatever they like during hunting season.
I always understood when your unloaded gun is in cased your not hunting ? Same for crossbow
Correct, but not what the question is about.Quote:
Originally Posted by js4fn
It boils down to what you are doing. Cruising cutovers looking for game from an ATV, you are hunting and orange is required. Driving from camp to your stand on a roadway, you are not hunting. No orange required. I know of guys charged for driving blocks looking for moose in their truck without orange on.Quote:
Originally Posted by dean.f
I should have quoted greatwhiteQuote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
So say a side side with cab I drive around my own property some time with a unloaded gun in a closed boot is actually mounted in the boxQuote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
Coyote raccoon
Same for deer in cased gun in box. Maybe 3 three guys in cab if one takes their hat off throws it on the dash ?
Royal Distributing has these, mentioned as legal for hunting. https://www.royaldistributing.com/hi...lmet-skin.html And this is the helmet I use, got checked by MNR and they said it was acceptable. https://www.royaldistributing.com/hi...34-helmet.html Now we all know that each CO has their personal interpretation, but I'd be hard pressed to believe the Judge would entertain a charge of being slightly off colour.
I would buy one of those skins only 10 bucks seems very cheap to me.
Actually I buy as much of my camping stuff orange then it's easier for me to find.
The only bad thing about the skins, you need a half helmet or McGuyver a way to hold it on a full helmet.Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
dont need a helmet when on private property just throwing that out there.
Even if you are the camp cook going out to help the lift a buddy's deer into the truck, better make sure you are wearing orange. Tracking shot deer and removal from the woods is still part of the hunt.Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
Only if you are the owner/occupier of the property..Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowjob
Tracking , yes…you are hunting. Recovering game is not hunting, as advised by a CO…..Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Tuna
Above the the FWCA section that I think applies to using a vehicle to hunt. It is illegal to do that so if I'm riding my ATV which I can't use to hunt then I shouldn't need an orange helmut .... unless I get right off my bike and shoot a critter without putting on my orange cap. If he's saying I need the orange helmut while on the ATV because I'm hunting then he must be saying it is legal to use a vehicle to do those things above. Can't have it both ways!!Quote:
Vehicles, boats and aircraft, use for hunting, etc.
Vehicles
24 (1) A person shall not use a vehicle for the purpose of killing, injuring, capturing, harassing, pursuing or chasing wildlife.
Boats
That's my understanding,too. I was in court when a case came up on the docket exactly like that. The hunter was charged with "fail to wear proper orange........." His defense was that he wasn't hunting from his ATV because that was illegal. He was riding his ATV where orange helmet wasn't required until he got off his ATV,loaded his rifle and began to hunt. The judge bought it and dismissed the charge. Granted,that was quite some time ago,but,it's still simple common sense. That's why I'm quite surprised that the CO would state that the way he did.Quote:
Originally Posted by redd foxx
not sure about that one.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
what difference does it make its still private property.
ride the atv all the time on buddys farm.
CO has never said anything about a helmet or checked if i had a driving license. (knows i dont own the farm)
X3 -You can not hunt from the ATV(can not even have a loaded gun on the ATV)Hunter orange is needed only when hunting. Thus -wearing orange while on ATV is a convenience thing, to hop off ,WALK off the road minimum 8 m !!!!! THEN load and THEN do the deed.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
With the same logic everyone in possession of an unloaded firearm ,in season,while driving truck,car etc in areas inhabited with wildlife would need to wear orange hat and vest.
Not that i have an ATV,so i would need to worry:ashamed:
Hunting, and having a loaded firearm on a vehicle are two entirely different things. I suggest you read what the CO said.Quote:
Originally Posted by gbk
The difference is, it’s the law. You don’t need a DL unless on a roadway…..but you need a helmet, plate and insurance unless you are the owner of the property.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowjob
Helmet
[COLOR=#505050]19 (1) No person shall drive an off-road vehicle or ride on an off-road vehicle or on a conveyance towed by an off-road vehicle unless he or she is wearing a helmet that complies with the regulations, securely fastened under his or her chin with a chin strap. R.S.O. 1990, c. O.4, s. 19 (1).
Idem
[COLOR=#505050](2) This section does not apply to a person driving or riding on an off-road vehicle or on a conveyance towed by an off-road vehicle where the owner of the off-road vehicle is the occupier of the land. R.S.O. 1990, c. O.4, s. 19 (2).
I ended up spray painting my helmut orange after being warned by a CO during moose season.
Seen him the next day, he stopped us and he laughed pretty hard. I used that road orange spray can....did the visor and all complete orange. There...now I'm safe
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I’ll do that on my second skid lid, if I can find the right paint…Quote:
Originally Posted by SongDog
What about driving to my hunting spot in a truck? How is it any different? Am I required to wear orange in the truck? Often Ieave camp in the truck and drive to the other end of the property to start a drive or whatever. What's the difference?
This is exactly my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
I am riding an ATV. Not hunting. It is illegal to have a loaded gun and discharge from an ATV.
Guess the key word is the term "searching".Quote:
Originally Posted by redd foxx
My Interpretation if the FWCA is you can't use the vehicle to physically interact with the animal however searching for an animal is allowed so not pretenent to the question at hand.
Searching for is covered under the definition of hunting and thats what is used for the determination.
So driving to your hunting spot with no intent to stop and kill game.... not hunting. Cruising a loggingh road looking for game with the intent to kill it ....hunting.
If you possess permission to be there you fall under the definition of occupier.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
From the ORVA… occupier” includes,Quote:
Originally Posted by onelessarrow
(a) a person who is in physical possession of the land, or
(b) a person who has responsibility for and control over the condition of land or the activities there carried on, or control over persons allowed to enter the land,
even if there is more than one occupier of the same land; (“occupant”)
So to simplify, when a CO stops you on your ATV and asks if you are hunting, you say NO. If I'm driving a trail and come across a moose and its going to stand there and wait for me to get off the machine, get the gun out of the boot, and load the gun it can wait for me to throw my orange hat on to, which is always hanging off the handlebar anyway.
In my case I was hauling a deer on the back rack of the quad going down an old rail way bed. We own both sides of the tracks and had hunter orange coat on and black helmet. Camp lane way was about 300 yards away. Didn't get charged, but was still considered hunting(gun on front rack unloaded in case) thats why I spray painted the helmet for the rest of the week lol
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The big difference is, you are basically driving to your hunting spot. It will depend on where and what you are doing. Like I said, cruising cuts looking forward moose with an ATV….you are hunting, by definition….Quote:
Originally Posted by blasted_saber
This is the same discussion every year, I figured CO Critchlow’s response would solve the issue….but apparently not !!
I take zero chances...despite the yelling, hootin' and hollerin' or what the other guys say at camp....I wear my hunter orange thong just to be on the safe side.......
Whether you're a tenant, a worker or a hunter, (b) is applied.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
If I have permission to hunt on said land, l am responsible for the activities carried out on the land.
Occupant.
Plowing my neighbor's driveway with my ATV without a helmet is not breaking any law.
Do they slip fivers in the elastic?Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveBates
Apparently not is right. It seems like it's one of those charges a CO would lay on a hunter that's 200 miles from home and wouldn't spend the time nor money to go all the way back to contest the charge,so,he/she just pays it. I also found it strange that he would advise that wearing an orange cap under a helmet was allowed. Well,under the Highway Traffic Act and the ORVAct,improper wearing of a helmet is also an offense. I think Mr.Critchlow was talking through his hat.........:DQuote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
I don’t know what offence you are referring to, as long as the helmet is securely fastened under the chin…. Lots of guys wear toques etc, under their skid lids….Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
IMHO, this charge is applicable to someone that, their first words out of their mouth, after being stopped, was, “ WTF do you want.”…..
I’m sure you know what I mean ….!
YUP!! Been there too.LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
As far as his remark about the HO hat under a helmet when riding, I’m sure it refers to just riding, and not actually hunting from the ATV…Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
Loonies only........Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushmoose
LMAO
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If you are road-hunt (driving around looking for game to shoot) then technically you are hunting and should be outfitted in orange. On the other hand, if you are driving from point A (camp) to point B (stand) and have no intention to hunt/shoot along the way, then no orange required while travelling. It’s all about your intentions while driving.Quote:
Originally Posted by blasted_saber
My personal opinion is, unless everyone is required to wear orange in the woods, you shouldn’t have to wear orange until you are legally in a situation to hunt/shoot e.g. out of vehicle and off the travelled portion, or beyond the fence whatever case may be. IMO hunter orange can create a false sense of security as some hunters think that anything other than orange can be shot at. People should pay more attention of their target rather than what colour it is.
That's especially true in areas where hunters must share the forests with other users like hikers,mountain bikers,pet walkers etc. We can never let our guard down...ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Menard
Yep, so you better wear your hunter orange from your house in SW Ontario to your camp in NW Ontario because your purpose is to hunt *shakes head*. If you are going from point A to point B you are traveling, that is how I look at it. If I see a deer and I want to hunt it then I am getting off my ATV, getting my helmet off, getting my orange hat on, taking my gun out of the case and loading up before hunting. The definition of hunting is ridiculous as driving back in your truck in the dark and spotting a new set of tracks would mean you are hunting in the dark, or night hunting.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
I agree with you. There just seems to be a lack of common sense. I’m surprised they don’t mandate flashing orange lights, flags and beepers on vehicles whenever a hunter is travelling in them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Don’t give them any ideas …. LolQuote:
Originally Posted by Sam Menard
LOL How many hunters take their hats off and toss them on the dash of their vehicle on the way home or toss their B/O coat/jacket/vest over the seat? Would it surprise anyone to learn that it's all the R&PG (reasonable and probable grounds) a CO,Police Constable needs to facilitate an inspection stop? We're already visible for inspection at a glance when festooned with B/O when in the field. I sometimes wonder if the entire B/O thing was actually about "safety"(although there's no doubt high viz has reduced accidental injuries),but,some things invented by politicians just make a guy go "h-m-m-m-m-m....."Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Menard
I know I wear B/O more for my safety than the legal aspect. When you're with a hunt camp and a lot of rifles are in the area it's best they can see you and you them, regardless if the CO tells you have to or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
Totally agreed,yet again,since one has a gun in a case(or on a rack)the gun is empty, and one can not shoot from an ATV(or from or across any traveled portion of a traveled right of way) chasing hunter orange for the riders does not make sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
SAME ,as if one travels in a hunting area in a vehicle,and have no orange on........
One can step out from the vehicle as fast as the ATV guy,walk over,load and shoot.........no difference.
X2 -easier to see a hunter this way.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
But at the other hand,if one drives in an open season on ATV,in game inhabited area,with an encased gun-what else he could do,then eventually hunt.
Some regulations have a lot of questionable elements.
I do not see why the vehicle would matter, since the gun being unloaded and encased negates it from use then biking down a road, going for a jog, driving in a car or truck, etc, with a hunting license, during an open season may be considered hunting if the CO decides that you looked at the scenery as you went past. I mean, you are searching for an animal and you are a hunter and you may come back and hunt that location so therefore you are hunting by definition right?Quote:
Originally Posted by gbk
Well there are other provinces with no blaze orange requirements for hunters. I'm sure they did their research to determine the safety aspects of that legislation and decided it wasn't worth it.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
Those provinces are more often than not those with large open areas and are not hunting the bush with groups of people like we do in Ontario.Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty55
I don't buy that other than in the prairies. How about Alberta where more than half of the province in the north is all bush and not prairies. Then there's BC, sure not much flat open land there. In Manitoba orange camo is permitted but not in Ontario.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
https://www.tbcpress.com/HUNTER-SAFE...ts-Canada.html
Do you know people hunting in Alberta who run dogs and push the bush with 20 guys? The population density of hunters and hunting tactics in this province are different.Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty55
You may not buy it but Northern Alberta does not have a lot of people and only a certain percentage of them hunt, compare that to southern Ontario, central Ontario during the deer gun hunt or Northern Ontario during a moose hunt, they are not even close.
Hunter Orange is not required for small game, bow hunting, bear hunting from a tree stand, etc, just when gun hunting for moose, deer and elk is on or bear hunting from the ground.
I couldn't care less about population density, the point is whether blaze orange is a safety requirement as determined by the government.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Btw Fox, you should brush up on your regs. Blaze orange is required for all licensed hunters, including bow hunters, falconers, bear hunters and trappers during an open gun season for for deer, elk and moose. You should try reading the regs once in a while to keep up to date.