What is the oldest gun you have ever shot?

I ask the question because history is important and keeping the old girls running is huge.

I bought an old rifled musket through a guy on this forum, saved it from the OPP and a chop saw. I was finally able to shoot it yesterday, the gun needed a shim on the hammer to line up properly and a thorough check from the gunsmith up here. There is a ringed barrel but it is about 6in back from the muzzle and I was told it would not be unsafe and should not do anything to the accuracy.

Tried round balls first, found out how high the gun shot then changed over to conicals. This 58 cal enfield does not like the 500gr+ conicals, key holing happened at 25 and 50 yards and not much of a group, I will have to try some 465-485gr conicals next time.

The crazy thing was, with the age, the sandpaper bore and taking it out for the first time I was able to stack round balls at 50 yards with it. 60gr of FFFg and a 0.575in round ball with a center to center group of about 3/8 of an inch :O. It really likes round balls, but hopefully the lighter conicals will work too.

Anyway, yes I kept the model and age until the end, the gun is an 1856 Model Enfield 58 cal rifled musket, Volunteer version with checkering and the lock is stamped 1860. A 161 year old rifle, beats my last oldest which was 138 years old.

Lets keep these old girls running and enjoy the history of them.

Here is a video, better than I could ever put together on these rifles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6o-dTB3kLtY

Oldest gun I've managed to shoot which I'm fortunate enough to own is my model Winchester model 1886 chambered in 40-82. It was manufactured in 1910 which really is not that old, she is a black powder cartridge that throws a 255 grain bullet. It makes the trip deer hunting usually every 2nd year as its something I love to carry in the bush being the 4th owner. If only they still made levers as nice as they did then people would know they are shooting quality.

My oldest are all handguns. 1863 being the oldest 3 from 1863-1864-5 .36-.44 cap and ball
Remington 1858 new model Army made September 1864 have two cap and ball cylinders plus a conversion cylinder for this one takes.44 Russians
2 cartridge guns 1873-76 S&W model 3 Russian
Have bulldog have to look up papers but think it’s 1886 takes shortened .44 Russians
All shooters

Fired a blackpowder Mauser action built pre1900 unfortunately that's all the details I have. Thing is a God damn Lazer beam, and softer on the shoulder than you'd expect.

I have a Snider Enfield 2 band from 1863 that I shoot.

Not nearly as old as some of you guys have played with, but my brother owned a Winchester Model 94 in 30-30 that had the RCMP markings on it and it was from around 1914 I believe. It was accurate enough for being a century old. He got good value for it on a deal for another rifle.

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Terrible_E

Fired a blackpowder Mauser action built pre1900 unfortunately that's all the details I have. Thing is a God damn Lazer beam, and softer on the shoulder than you'd expect.

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Blackpower is a push rather than a punch, I was warned about the recoil of 70gr of FFFg and a 525gr slug, was not that bad, nothing like a 12ga slug.

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Originally Posted by GuyJR

I have a Snider Enfield 2 band from 1863 that I shoot.

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Too bad you cannot use that for the Controlled hunt. I used a 50 cal round ball gun at Dads a couple years back, the plan is to use this one soon, if Covid allows.

My sons Winchester '73 .44-40. According to the serial number,It was built in the early 1880's. With a cleaning and oiling,it worked flawlessly and is still deadly accurate and in very good condition being officially appraised at $4K USD. The very elderly neighbor that gave it to him hunted with it and took a Deer with it off his back porch the year before he passed in 1985 at 96 years old. It has since been retired.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

My sons Winchester '73 .44-40. According to the serial number,It was built in the early 1880's. With a cleaning and oiling,it worked flawlessly and is still deadly accurate and in very good condition being officially appraised at $4K USD. The very elderly neighbor that gave it to him hunted with it and took a Deer with it off his back porch the year before he passed in 1985 at 96 years old. It has since been retired.

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The deer must be tougher now, apparently those will not kill a modern deer :D

I had a chance to shoot an old 38-40, a well worn in winchester lever gun is a joy to shoot.

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Originally Posted by Fox

The deer must be tougher now, apparently those will not kill a modern deer :D

I had a chance to shoot an old 38-40, a well worn in winchester lever gun is a joy to shoot.

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It may not be that the deer are any tougher, it's more likely that manufactured ammunition has lower energy as it is designed to be switched between rifle and pistol, with the use of modern smokeless powder. I have a feeling with the traditional black powder charge underneath a 200 grain slug it would provide an ample force to stop a modern deer. Granted were talking a deer within 100 yards.
Modern smokeless can put quite a strain on the metal in older guns, so manufactures go out of their way to keep pressures down.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

It may not be that the deer are any tougher, it's more likely that manufactured ammunition has lower energy as it is designed to be switched between rifle and pistol, with the use of modern smokeless powder. I have a feeling with the traditional black powder charge underneath a 200 grain slug it would provide an ample force to stop a modern deer. Granted were talking a deer within 100 yards.
Modern smokeless can put quite a strain on the metal in older guns, so manufactures go out of their way to keep pressures down.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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They load smokeless loads to take into account old guns, they will be faster though, even with light loads, then their blackpowder predecessors. The 38-40 and 44-40 were both pistol and rifle cartridges back then and borderline for anything large but they put a lot of meat on the table within their distance restrictions. Magnumitis is a modern phenomenon, nobody back in the old days when people were poor and sustaining themselves would have gone out and used something with that much lead and powder and cost that much to shoot a little deer. Yes the buffalo guns existed but the average person had much smaller cartridges that were much less expensive to use.

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Originally Posted by Fox

They load smokeless loads to take into account old guns, they will be faster though, even with light loads, then their blackpowder predecessors. The 38-40 and 44-40 were both pistol and rifle cartridges back then and borderline for anything large but they put a lot of meat on the table within their distance restrictions. Magnumitis is a modern phenomenon, nobody back in the old days when people were poor and sustaining themselves would have gone out and used something with that much lead and powder and cost that much to shoot a little deer. Yes the buffalo guns existed but the average person had much smaller cartridges that were much less expensive to use.

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"Magnumitis" is an excellent observation. You wouldn't believe the heat I took for showing up on the Moose hunt with my 30-30 Marlin until after I dropped the first Bull with one shot at 75 yds. It sure quietened them down in a hurry.

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Originally Posted by Fox

They load smokeless loads to take into account old guns, they will be faster though, even with light loads, then their blackpowder predecessors. The 38-40 and 44-40 were both pistol and rifle cartridges back then and borderline for anything large but they put a lot of meat on the table within their distance restrictions. Magnumitis is a modern phenomenon, nobody back in the old days when people were poor and sustaining themselves would have gone out and used something with that much lead and powder and cost that much to shoot a little deer. Yes the buffalo guns existed but the average person had much smaller cartridges that were much less expensive to use.

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Maybe back then, they were better shoots and didn't waste a lot of ammunition. For larger game, it was about developing killing energy. With black powder bullet speed was viewed to be max around 1500 fps depending upon barrel length, to build killing energy the reliance was on bullet mass.
The shift from round ball to conical bullets provided the opportunity to build more killing energy. Or you went to guns with a larger bore diameters so you could shoot a heaver ball. I have a couple of the older ball molds one drops .75 caliber ball, the other drop a ball .66 caliber, one my grandfather had ran around .57 caliber. Lead seem to be something that was readily available and apparently cheap. Some of the stone work joints in the Greek Parthenon had poured lead to keys to strengthen them and the Roman used it for water piping. So lead on this side of the oceans was most likely in good supply as well. When came to smaller diameter bullet the 30 WCF which sported a jacketed bullet over a smokeless powder charge, was the first to rival the killing effectiveness of the larger bore diameter black powder shooters. After Winchester develop the gun, it may have well, disappeared into oblivion if not for Marlin adopting the round and calling it the 30-30. It fit the mine set of those holding to the old fashion nomenclature for rifle. The caliber first followed by powder charge level. Two small differences: a jacketed bullet as opposed to a lead bullet and a smokeless
powder charge as opposed to a black powder charge. In that respect the .30-30 was the first modern firearm.
There were smaller diameters black powder shooter, I suspect they function on deer because they were shot at short range and those that used them were able to place their shoots effectively. But if you want kill energy with black powder the option was to raise the bullet mass. Gun & Ammo once published a table for the .40 caliber Dixie rifle with different barrel lengths. With a 48" barrel and either a 4 or 4.5 dram powder charge they got the slug to top 2400 fps. By then the recoil had reached such a merciless level no one felt like pursuing a stiffer charge.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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Originally Posted by Fox

They load smokeless loads to take into account old guns, they will be faster though, even with light loads, then their blackpowder predecessors. The 38-40 and 44-40 were both pistol and rifle cartridges back then and borderline for anything large but they put a lot of meat on the table within their distance restrictions. Magnumitis is a modern phenomenon, nobody back in the old days when people were poor and sustaining themselves would have gone out and used something with that much lead and powder and cost that much to shoot a little deer. Yes the buffalo guns existed but the average person had much smaller cartridges that were much less expensive to use.

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Maybe back then, they were better shoots and didn't waste a lot of ammunition. For larger game, it was about developing killing energy. With black powder bullet speed was viewed to be max around 1500 fps depending upon barrel length, to build killing energy the reliance was on bullet mass.
The shift from round ball to conical bullets provided the opportunity to build more killing energy. Or you went to guns with a larger bore diameters so you could shoot a heaver ball. I have a couple of the older ball molds one drops .75 caliber ball, the other drop a ball .66 caliber, one my grandfather had ran around .57 caliber. Lead seem to be something that was readily available and apparently cheap. Some of the stone work joints in the Greek Parthenon had poured lead keys to strengthen them and the Roman used it for water piping. So lead on this side of the oceans was most likely in good supply as well. When it came to smaller diameter bullet the 30 WCF which sported a jacketed bullet over a smokeless powder charge, was the first to rival the killing effectiveness of the larger bore diameter black powder shooters. After Winchester develop the gun, it may have well, disappeared into oblivion if not for Marlin adopting the round and calling it the 30-30. It fit the mine set of those holding to the old fashion nomenclature for rifle. The caliber first, followed by powder charge level. Two small differences: a jacketed bullet as opposed to a lead bullet and a smokeless powder charge as opposed to a black powder charge. In that respect the .30-30 was the first modern firearm.
There were smaller diameters black powder shooter, I suspect they function on deer because they were shot at short range and those that used them were able to place their shoots effectively. But if you want kill energy with black powder the option was to raise the bullet mass. Gun & Ammo once published a table for the .40 caliber Dixie rifle with different barrel lengths. With a 48" barrel and either a 4 or 4.5 dram powder charge they got the slug to top 2400 fps. By then the recoil had reached such a merciless level no one felt like pursuing a stiffer charge.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

Maybe back then, they were better shoots and didn't waste a lot of ammunition. For larger game, it was about developing killing energy. With black powder bullet speed was viewed to be max around 1500 fps depending upon barrel length, to build killing energy the reliance was on bullet mass.
The shift from round ball to conical bullets provided the opportunity to build more killing energy. Or you went to guns with a larger bore diameters so you could shoot a heaver ball. I have a couple of the older ball molds one drops .75 caliber ball, the other drop a ball .66 caliber, one my grandfather had ran around .57 caliber. Lead seem to be something that was readily available and apparently cheap. Some of the stone work joints in the Greek Parthenon had poured lead to keys to strengthen them and the Roman used it for water piping. So lead on this side of the oceans was most likely in good supply as well. When came to smaller diameter bullet the 30 WCF which sported a jacketed bullet over a smokeless powder charge, was the first to rival the killing effectiveness of the larger bore diameter black powder shooters. After Winchester develop the gun, it may have well, disappeared into oblivion if not for Marlin adopting the round and calling it the 30-30. It fit the mine set of those holding to the old fashion nomenclature for rifle. The caliber first followed by powder charge level. Two small differences: a jacketed bullet as opposed to a lead bullet and a smokeless
powder charge as opposed to a black powder charge. In that respect the .30-30 was the first modern firearm.
There were smaller diameters black powder shooter, I suspect they function on deer because they were shot at short range and those that used them were able to place their shoots effectively. But if you want kill energy with black powder the option was to raise the bullet mass. Gun & Ammo once published a table for the .40 caliber Dixie rifle with different barrel lengths. With a 48" barrel and either a 4 or 4.5 dram powder charge they got the slug to top 2400 fps. By then the recoil had reached such a merciless level no one felt like pursuing a stiffer charge.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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With a rifled bore you can only push the bullet so fast, hence the limit on speed of the old all lead bullets. Black powder is also very inefficient, so they would have longer barrels to be able to burn all the powder and have the maximum velocity. People still think that this is the case with smokeless but it is a myth, you do not gain that much velocity with even a significantly longer barrel unless you are using a very over bored smokeless cartridge.

The larger bore was to be able to kill, with round balls your ballistic coefficient sucks so you shed energy fast, the 75 cal flintlock military guns were for round balls. With the invention of the Minie ball in France they could make a smaller diameter and hold the energy levels out further because of the shape. The first Minie balls were 69 cal, then they worked down to 58 for the mid 1800s and then slowly came down from that.

The 30-30 was very modern but the first smokeless cartridge adopted by any country was the 8mm Label in 1886, 9 years before the 30-30 came to be.

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Originally Posted by Fox

With a rifled bore you can only push the bullet so fast, hence the limit on speed of the old all lead bullets. Black powder is also very inefficient, so they would have longer barrels to be able to burn all the powder and have the maximum velocity. People still think that this is the case with smokeless but it is a myth, you do not gain that much velocity with even a significantly longer barrel unless you are using a very over bored smokeless cartridge.

The larger bore was to be able to kill, with round balls your ballistic coefficient sucks so you shed energy fast, the 75 cal flintlock military guns were for round balls. With the invention of the Minie ball in France they could make a smaller diameter and hold the energy levels out further because of the shape. The first Minie balls were 69 cal, then they worked down to 58 for the mid 1800s and then slowly came down from that.

The 30-30 was very modern but the first smokeless cartridge adopted by any country was the 8mm Label in 1886, 9 years before the 30-30 came to be.

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Thanks for the info on the 8mm Label, so it appears that Winchester may only have the distinction of coming up for the first modern firearm on this side of the ocean. I believe it was a Swiss inventor that came up with the first jacketed round 1883, and I knew the French had come up with a stable smokeless powder in 1884. So the French developing the 8mm Label in 1886 before Winchesters development of the 30-30 in 1891, makes good sense. Who knows Winchester may have gotten their idea for the creation of the 30-30 from the French. I'm always amused by the lag time between the development of smokeless powder and the length of time it took Britain to begin adopting smokeless powder for their .303 cartridge. Apparently they were still driving jacketed .303 bullets with black powder as late as 1888, while shortly there after cordite became fashionable.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

Thanks for the info on the 8mm Label, so it appears that Winchester may only have the distinction of coming up for the first modern firearm on this side of the ocean. I believe it was a Swiss inventor that came up with the first jacketed round 1883, and I knew the French had come up with a stable smokeless powder in 1884. So the French developing the 8mm Label in 1886 before Winchesters development of the 30-30 in 1891, makes good sense. Who knows Winchester may have gotten their idea for the creation of the 30-30 from the French. I'm always amused by the lag time between the development of smokeless powder and the length of time it took Britain to begin adopting smokeless powder for their .303 cartridge. Apparently they were still driving jacketed .303 bullets with black powder as late as 1888, while shortly there after cordite became fashionable.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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The 30-30 was not designed officially until 1895, the 32-40 and 38-55 were the basis for the 30-30 but smokeless itself came out of the French, the first stable and repeatable smokeless powder, which was hard to come by. That is why the 32 Special was given the twist rate it was, allowed for reloading with black powder, even though it was only available from the factory with smokeless powder.

The British were just at war all the time, they moved to semi-smokeless (cordite), which is actually artillery propellant and were still forming brass around cordite well into WWII, at least the Canadian stuff was Nitro Cellulose powder.

The first modern gun was the needle rifle in 1836 in Prussia and used in war starting in 1841, it would be amazing to be able to handle one of these.

You guy's have some nice old guns. Should post some pictures of them. I don't really have anything very old other then my mothers Savage 22 Single shot which was made in the early 40's I think.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...ac2517e820.jpg
All shooters. Lot of fun

Wow their in really nice shape

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Originally Posted by Fox

The 30-30 was not designed officially until 1895, the 32-40 and 38-55 were the basis for the 30-30 but smokeless itself came out of the French, the first stable and repeatable smokeless powder, which was hard to come by. That is why the 32 Special was given the twist rate it was, allowed for reloading with black powder, even though it was only available from the factory with smokeless powder.

The British were just at war all the time, they moved to semi-smokeless (cordite), which is actually artillery propellant and were still forming brass around cordite well into WWII, at least the Canadian stuff was Nitro Cellulose powder.

The first modern gun was the needle rifle in 1836 in Prussia and used in war starting in 1841, it would be amazing to be able to handle one of these.

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The needle rifle, from what information I came across appeared to be interesting. However my thoughts of what constitutes a modern firearm, and yours differ. I tend to define modern in terms of the ammunition. Your view seems to focus on the evolution of the firearm action, which is fine. I shoot a 43 Mauser bolt action repeater, which you would view as modern. It was design to shoot a greased soft lead cast projectile over 77 grains of black powder. Not enjoying the effort that goes into cleaning a gun that shoots black powder, I work with more modern smokeless powder under a cast lead bullet, as this gun was being phased into being obsolete Dominion was charging it with sharpshooter smokeless powder under a lead case bullet. For me that does not make it a modern firearm. To me a modern firearm shoots jacket projectile over a smokeless powder charge, and their metallurgy has the capacity of withstanding the high pressures developed by modern ammunition. The Mauser I shoot was originally rate for a maximum pressures in the order 24,000 psi. to provide an adequate level of safety for smokeless powder the recommendation is to keep the pressure below 20,000 psi. The pressure of its more modern American equivalent the 45-70 can range as high as 50,000 psi, the older versions of the same caliber have a cut off around 35,000 psi having originated as black powder firearms. I simply offer this as to illustrate, why I focus upon the line between older blackpowder firearms and modern smokeless powder firearms. There are numerous exception, of guns starting off as blackpowder guns, which have been reproved to take the pressures of modern smokeless ammunition the .303 being amongst them.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

The needle rifle, from what information I came across appeared to be interesting. However my thoughts of what constitutes a modern firearm, and yours differ. I tend to define modern in terms of the ammunition. Your view seems to focus on the evolution of the firearm action, which is fine. I shoot a 43 Mauser bolt action repeater, which you would view as modern. It was design to shoot a greased soft lead cast projectile over 77 grains of black powder. Not enjoying the effort that goes into cleaning a gun that shoots black powder, I work with more modern smokeless powder under a cast lead bullet, as this gun was being phased into being obsolete Dominion was charging it with sharpshooter smokeless powder under a lead case bullet. For me that does not make it a modern firearm. To me a modern firearm shoots jacket projectile over a smokeless powder charge, and their metallurgy has the capacity of withstanding the high pressures developed by modern ammunition. The Mauser I shoot was originally rate for a maximum pressures in the order 24,000 psi. to provide an adequate level of safety for smokeless powder the recommendation is to keep the pressure below 20,000 psi. The pressure of its more modern American equivalent the 45-70 can range as high as 50,000 psi, the older versions of the same caliber have a cut off around 35,000 psi having originated as black powder firearms. I simply offer this as to illustrate, why I focus upon the line between older blackpowder firearms and modern smokeless powder firearms. There are numerous exception, of guns starting off as blackpowder guns, which have been reproved to take the pressures of modern smokeless ammunition the .303 being amongst them.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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The needle rifle was the first with a contained cartridge, not in brass but the first cartridge. The primer was inside the case, the needle would pierce the paper case and hit the primer. This is the grand daddy of the centerfire and very cool. Think about it, at that time everyone had to load from the muzzle, or use a couple of odd breech loading loose powder designs. This was the first contained cartridge, that is neat as heck.

One really cool thing is the reason why the No 1 Lee Enfields have such huge chambers, it goes back to the dented cases in the Zulu wars, the brits guns were all jammed up because they used dented brass foil cartridges in their guns. A solution was to open up the chambers to allow more room for these damaged cases, that held on through the No 1 if not some of the No 4 Lee Enfiled rifles.

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Originally Posted by js4fn

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...ac2517e820.jpg
All shooters. Lot of fun

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Look good and like fun!!


There are good shootable old rifles out there, took me about 60 seconds to find this one that is pre-1900 and probably incredibly accurate.
http://www.tradeexcanada.com/content...rifle-65x55-45

As for the oldest I have shot probably one of the Martini BSA target rifles my dad had in .22 and in center fire a Swedish Mauser or Mosin from around 1900 if I remember right. In shotguns it would be a toss up of the muzzle loader 12guage (no real ID marks we could figure out but it was older) I used for pheasant for several years or my grandfathers 1912. At one of the gunshows several decades ago there was an air rifle I was allowed to handle (carefully!!! and under close watch) that was early or mid 1800's but I don't remember the exact age, that was a cool rifle.

1937 browning superposed pigeon grade

Model 94 32 Winchester special. Manufactured in 1902, just had GunCo replace the lifter. Cycles beautifully now.

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Originally Posted by Cameracutter

Model 94 32 Winchester special. Manufactured in 1902, just had GunCo replace the lifter. Cycles beautifully now.

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Jason is a spectacular gunsmith