Safety first - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIOqLc3d5TQ
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Safety first - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIOqLc3d5TQ
That presentation is very well done.......in America. Here,in Canada, storing any firearm unlocked and/or loaded is a crime. For some firearms,even storing ammo in close proximity can get us in real trouble. I notice he mentioned storing a double or single barrel broken open with shells in the barrel out of sight (closet shelf) was recommended. That's the kiss of death for kids because they're like magnets. No matter where you hide a gun,a kid(s) will find it. The presenter recommended locking them up,then,later in he video blew it out of the water with these comments. This illustrates,perfectly,the difference in the mindsets between Americans and Canadians. Thanks for posting,Joe.
Agree with You Trimmer-unless in a War Zone(or unless someone have a bounty on his head)why on the earth? someone would need to have a loaded gun in the house?
Why ? ammo available in a split second or close by(in America)would not do the "self defence "availability purpose ? (in America)Why play with the fire.
Agreed, some places are rough but the Taliban aren’t knocking on the door yet. The risks of accidental shooting outweigh the need for a rapid tactical deployment in the living room…in my mind at leastQuote:
Originally Posted by gbk
Shotgun at the front of the safe with buckshot in the door pocket is good enough for most
Nothing wrong with having ammo close and accessible but you just have to have them locked up. My neighbour had a bear in his backyard a couple weeks ago, I have access to a rifle and charger clips ready to go in the event a bear tries to get to my animals but I also have them locked up in a cabinet.Quote:
Originally Posted by gbk
You can temporarily leave a gun unlocked but not accessible to ammo for the purposes of predator control if you live in an area where it is legal to shoot.
https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/...html#h-1019943
The problem is the absence in the law of what "readily accessible" means. Is having rifle by the door and a magazine on the other side of the room acceptable? Would a little strong box with the ammo beside the rifle meet the standard of the regulations?Quote:
Storage of Non-Restricted Firearms
5 (1) An individual may store a non-restricted firearm only if
(a) it is unloaded;
(b) it is
(i) rendered inoperable by means of a secure locking device,
(ii) rendered inoperable by the removal of the bolt or bolt-carrier, or
(iii) stored in a container, receptacle or room that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into; and
(c) it is not readily accessible to ammunition, unless the ammunition is stored, together with or separately from the firearm, in a container or receptacle that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into.
(2) Paragraph (1)(b) does not apply to any individual who stores a non-restricted firearm temporarily if the individual reasonably requires it for the control of predators or other animals in a place where it may be discharged in accordance with all applicable Acts of Parliament and of the legislature of a province, regulations made under such Acts, and municipal by-laws.
(3) Paragraphs (1)(b) and (c) do not apply to an individual who stores a non-restricted firearm in a location that is in a remote wilderness area that is not subject to any visible or otherwise reasonably ascertainable use incompatible with hunting.
The same applies with the definition of "remote wilderness area." To people in downtown Toronto that might mean anywhere without street lights. A person in Timmins would have a different interpretation.
The problem with the safe storage regulations in Canada is they were written to cover every eventuality with no regard for differing circumstances. The current regulations make reasonable sense for a family with small children living in a city. They don't make much sense for a home in a rural area with no children where adult occupants are all PAL holders.
I was told that these sections were left deliberately obtuse for the Crown to prosecute each case according to individual circumstances of each case brought forward and for Judges to weigh those circumstances on their own merits. Whether or not the clauses are workable is certainly open to debate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Badenoch
I guess if you are a female living alone and while sleeping you hear someone climbing into your bedroom window and your guns are locked up and you live in Canada it is going to be a rough night - if there is a home invasion by a couple thugs and you have time to reach the room where you have your gun locked but too late because a thug is chasing you and you live in Canada it is going to be a rough night - if a bear came into your yard and grabbed your small child and you go to run upstairs to get your gun out of the safe and then go into another room if get your ammo and you live in Canada you are going to have a rough day - if , if .....
If you are a single woman living alone and while sleeping you see some guy climbing into your bedroom window and you live in the U.S. you grab the 9 MM you have on the night stand and start shooting then after the police carry the body away you go back to sleep - if there is a home invasion by a couple thugs while your watching TV and you live in the U.S you grab the shotgun you have leaning in the corner and blast a couple of thugs into the here after - If some bear comes into your yard and grabs your child playing there and you live in the U.S. you grab your gun from the cabinet over the refrigerator and proceed to dispatch the bear before major harm is done - if your going food shopping and while l sitting in your truck (Ford F350 4X4 super duty with a 5.4 Triton V8) some low live pulls out a gun and tries to steal you beloved truck you surprise him by pulling your own gun and sending into eternity - that is if you live in the U.S. - if, if .....
Canadians can have a legally stored shotgun loaded in a matter of seconds if they're smart about where they store stuff.
Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk
I agree.....and may or may not have practiced and timed myself...lol....it can take seconds:)Quote:
Originally Posted by GW11
[QUOTE=GW11;1169191]Canadians can have a legally stored shotgun loaded in a matter of seconds if they're smart about where they store stuff.
But remember - seconds count - can mean life or death - no matter how you practice it is going to take more time to get gun and load it then it is to just grab a loaded gun readily available -
[QUOTE=JoePa;1169201]I have never once met a Canadian who has had this concern, home invasions with no connection to organized crime is essentially non-existent here, you would be more likely to be killed by a plane crashing on you then having a heavily armed group of people coming into your house when you are sleeping.Quote:
Originally Posted by GW11
Remember though, you have to sleep at some point, if you have your gun, in your hands while you are sleeping, even fully loaded, you can be killed before you even wake up.
Fox you may be right but let me tell you something - crime was not around to the extent it is now when I was growing up - we didn't,t have to be on the alert- things changed a lot - mark my word things will also change north of the border - just a question of time -
Maybe Joe, things have changed because people/society have changed. At one time we were to watch out for one another now it seems like more and more society is more concerned about oneself.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoePa
We have police adds saying Make sure you lock your vehicle and put valuables out of sight. (accepting the fact we might be robbed and it will be our fault) The police adds should read differently, something that says Citizens stand up lets fight against (keep a look out) criminals together.
We (citizens) should not be trained to be afraid of others but that's exactly what those adds from the police do to us.
Joe all I have to do is roll over try to get more sleep I’ll need it to clean up the mess the dogs make
Our highest violent crime rates were in the 70s, so they were around when you were younger but before I was born.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoePa
There was one incident when I talked to my dad about having a gun close by at night, there was a guy who murdered 2 in Detroit then a couple in SW Ontario and was caught up near Pembroke Ontario, he was at a new house with no cell coverage and rural.
In 37 years there was once, I have had move concerns about bears coming in the door than people.
See what I mean - https://www.foxnews.com/us/phoenix-h...-footage-shows
Did anyone turn them in, probably not and there lies the problem of today.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoePa
Yes I see what you mean Joe, but if that happens to you up here it’s almost guaranteed to be because you are involved in organized crime or drugs, it doesn’t happen randomly
I wonder how often random home invasions actually occur in the U.S. despite America's fascination with the topic. Among the distinguishing features between American and Canadian culture is the reason to buy firearms. Americans are far more likely to buy guns in anticipation of using them on another person should the need arise while Canadians are more likely to buy guns for hunting or target shooting.Quote:
Originally Posted by 73hunter
I've never bought a gun thinking that one day I might have to defend my home and perhaps kill someone. I own some guns that would be suitable for the purpose but that is not why they are here in the first place nor do I anticipate or harbour fantasies about using them in that capacity.
USA: The average number of home invasions per year was 1,030,000 between 1994 and 2010.
Canada: home invasions 8,700 per year ( 1995 to 2000).
Americans and Canadians apparently do not define "home invasion" in the same way. To be considered a "home invasion" in Canada a break and enter must be accompanied by confinement and/or assault of the occupants.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
https://www.duhaime.org/Legal-Dictio...m/HomeInvasion
Meanwhile in America the bar is lower as in most U.S. states any forcible entry to a residence is considered a "home invasion" although there are varying degrees of seriousness.
https://definitions.uslegal.com/h/home-invasion/
What would be considered a 2nd or 3rd degree "home invasion" in America would be a break and enter in Canada. Only a 1st degree home invasion would qualify in Canada as a home invasion.
Is the ratio between USA and Canada significantly change regardless of how you define a "Home Invasion" ?
Arguing the semantics doesn't change the fact it's much more prevalent in the US than Canada....
An apples to apples comparison would be home invasions in Canada vs. 1st degree home invasions in the USA and whether the home invasions in both countries are random attacks against innocent homeowners or between criminals who are sorting out their affairs.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
for what gain ??Quote:
Originally Posted by Badenoch
So, based on your comment here why do you support the ban of black "assault" style guns for target shooting as you have done in previous posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Badenoch
You appear to be contradicting yourself.
That is usually the case….unless they screw up the address !!Quote:
Originally Posted by Badenoch
No contradiction at all because I've never supported the assault rifle ban. I am indifferent to the ban because like the vast majority of hunters it doesn't affect me.Quote:
Originally Posted by impact
I wonder where people ever got the idea that an "assault style" (I hate that BS term) shotgun or rifle is necessary for home defense when any ol' shotgun loaded with 0000 buck or even a lowly .22 will do the job? ;)
Most of the time all you have to do is 'rack it ' and that will send them running..HaHa.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
I was thinking the same thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
When Badenoch said he had some suitable for the purpose…..I was figuring so does anyone who owns any gun
#7 1/2 shot will be all that you would need across a roomQuote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
7 1/2 birdshot is nasty stuff at close range. The shot pattern is about the size of your fist,but,if the bad guy is wearing a jacket or heavy coat,it's not enough to penetrate and do dibilitating damage,especially,if he's high on dope. He can still come at you and do a lot of damage,even kill. The idea is to put the skell down permanently to end the threat. 000 or 000 buck shot is like getting hit with a dozen or so .38 cal bullets. At close range,typically from a bedroom door to a living room,he's done and dead men don't tell lies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Could just blast his face full with an ABC extinguisher then clobber him while he's suffocating on the powder and not have to worry about firearm charges, or killing a family member. Up here, I'd say if you have armed criminals invading your home you should probably take a hard look at your business activities. You don't often hear of random victims.
There are exceptions with non-restricted in rural areas below.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
Aside from that, the general law says either attach a lock to the unloaded gun itself OR store it in a locked case/cabinet/room. The firearm itself can be unlocked and 'ready to go' in that case/cabinet/room. Ammo can still be handy, like in a butt sling, as long as it is stored separately. Also re transporting, as long as they are unloaded, they don't have to be locked. Technically there is a small grey area or grace period in between transferring and storing. It has to move from one category to the other.
From the official storage laws for non-restricted in Canada:
(2) Paragraph (1)(b) does not apply to any individual who stores a non-restricted firearm temporarily if the individual reasonably requires it for the control of predators or other animals in a place where it may be discharged in accordance with all applicable Acts of Parliament and of the legislature of a province, regulations made under such Acts, and municipal by-laws.
(3) Paragraphs (1)(b) and (c) do not apply to an individual who stores a non-restricted firearm in a location that is in a remote wilderness area that is not subject to any visible or otherwise reasonably ascertainable use incompatible with hunting.
So basically at your farm / cottage / rural property, where you can legally target shoot or hunt, and especially where animals or livestock are in danger, you can leave a loaded or at least unlocked non-restricted firearm at the ready.
From the MNRF:
You don’t need a permit to scare away, capture or kill most wild animals, if the animal is causing damage to your property.
You do need to follow certain rules.
Special rules apply to:
endangered/threatened species
moose
white-tailed deer
American elk
black bear (capturing)
Further: https://ofa.on.ca/resources/nuisance-wildlife/ (*These provisions apply to all property owners, not just farmers.*)
So the exceptions to storage laws + the ability to basically shoot what you deem as threatening pests = more relaxed non-restricted laws than many realize.
OO and OOO buck have a good chance of killing a family member in the other room.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaR1EVybUgc
Check out the meat target and the lack of penetration beyond the target.
If I was to have shotgun in house for breakin think I would dump out the shot on a couple
shoot the intruder with couple shot wads have the third for them to decide if they want to play roulette
12 Gauge Assault and Pepper - 3 Rounds Per Pack
"Spice up your self-defense ammo cache with this specially designed 12 Gauge round. It is loaded with rock salt and peppercorn to offer up a sizzling blast that is sure to be moving to say the least. Though not truly a less than lethal round, it is sure to be most untasteful to any perp or pest!"
For use in 12 gauge shotguns only.
2 3/4" shell
https://www.firequest.com/G12-054.html
If you are pointing a gun at someone, let alone pulling the trigger you better feel as if your life or your families life is in danger. There would be no point in shooting them with a wad, you would be dead if you actually felt as if your life was in danger.Quote:
Originally Posted by js4fn
If someone boots your door in middle of the night what are you suppose to invite them in give them the tv remote your Favourite chair make them a coffeeQuote:
Originally Posted by Fox
If someone "breaks" into my house.......to me....my family's life are automatically at risk.....full stop......
Yeah no kidding, I ain’t playing “roulette” shooting “wads” lmfao
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Truth is, unless you’ve got a firearm somehow stored legally in the bedroom closet, it’s unlikely any of us would have time to get one out of the safe anyway….which I imagine is part of the reason for safe storage laws.
Again, if you really have a well-founded fear of home invasion, buy a German Shepherd
99% of the time that is exactly what happens !! You'll end up pissing your pants and watching them take your TV...Quote:
Originally Posted by 73hunter
favorite quote; " Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth"...Mike Tyson.
NR's only need to be trigger locked when stored outside a locked container. Ammo is supposed to be stored separately. There's nothing stopping a homeowner from standing a trigger-locked shotgun or rifle next to your bedside table that just happens to have a handful of shells in the drawer with the trigger lock key either with the shells or even in the lock. Who's to know after the fact? After the fact when the cops show up and there's dead skell laying on the floor and they ask what happened,your answer shall be "He kicked in the door and said he was going to kill us all. I was in fear for my life." Just don't shoot him in the back because that indicates flight and there's no further threat. After that,don't say one more word to the Police until after you've had a sit-down with your lawyer. Not one word.Quote:
Originally Posted by 73hunter
Having a big dog of the right breed is definitely a deterrent to most crooks - they will find some place else to break into - as far as just shooting wads at a intruder that's a really bad idea - the bad guy will only get mad and attack you - if armed with a firearm he will shoot you - if armed with a knife he will stab you - there is a old piece of advice - if you shoot at someone you must shoot to kill otherwise you are just escalating a situation with conditions not in your favor - the other factor that gives you a one up is the surprise factor - the intruder may not be prepared for you having a weapon and willing to use it - it is sad that people need to prepare for such things as a home invasion but the way things are now it is the only way you can feel safe - if you get on you tube and type in home invasions you'll be surprised how many occur down here - and how many times a home owner saves himself and family from real harm by being prepared - that's the old Boy Scout's motto "Be Prepared"
Good advice Trimmer21 - don't talk to cops - after you get a lawyer you tell them how the guy said he was going to kill you and you shot him after you got your weapon that was legally stored - any good lawyer will tell you don't talk to cops because you will just incriminate yourself if you say the wrong thing
Ha I'd never load my home defense gun with 7.5 shot.
00 buck or 000 buck. He gets two warnings...I yell I have a gun...still hear them coming I'm unloading at the sound, Right through the gun room door, drywall whatever.
The perp is the best and only witness, He ain't making a statement if I'm ready to fire to protect myself.
Ya it don't happen in Canada....Google home invasions in Toronto. Less than 2 months ago home owners bound and tied and assaulted by masked individuals with firearms in violent home invasion...
Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk
True enough of course, trigger-locked by the bedside would be legal if you felt the need.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
Question though, for our current & retired LEO members…you’ve shot an intruder and claim that you feared for your life. The cops find no evidence that the intruder had a gun. I thought that self defence was only justified when returning the same peril/force that was used upon you. ie shoot someone who turns out to be unarmed and be charged ?
I'm reasonably sure that my shack that's in a row of shacks, in a neighborhood filled with similar shacks, full of working class people with modest income and belongings won't be a target of any home invasion any time soon. Unless I were to do something to invite it, I imagine.
Although a couple years back there were 14 homes "invaded" and robbed while the occupants slept. Not one house had a dog and all had an unlocked door I believe.
As well, I would only be guessing as to how many though, some home invasions that are targeted are a hit on the wrong home, maybe next door to a dealer or house numbers get inverted. Dealers and rip-off artists are not known as the cream of the intellectual crop when it comes to thinking out a clean hit.
Crap, it isn't unknown for the police here in Canada to do a early morning high risk forced entry on the wrong home.
You do not have to be a skell to get hit and the meth heads who need our help and understanding and subsidized housing and free meals and jobs(oops, maybe not that 1) don't care either.
John
John
I guess I could see the mistaken address/identity being plausible.
I have an acquaintance who walked into the wrong house (looked identical door unlocked) while intoxicated and when he walked into "his" room was clobbered with a pipe and arrested/charged. So these people ARE out there :confused:
Agreed. But our government would prefer we sit and play patty-cake with the burglar for 20 minutes until the cops arrive.Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveBates
Legally we do have the right to self-defence, just make sure your story checks out.
If it was a drunk, senile old lady entering the wrong house and she's found with 8 shells of 00 buck in her back as she was 20 yards off your property in an attempt to leave while and unarmed, you're going to have a big problem.
It is find in Florida, and disturbing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushwhacker
When a crook threatens bodily harm or death,either by brandishing a weapon or without,it's certainly not up to the victim to ascertain how that would be accomplished. There's no way a victim would know if there's a concealed weapon,special skills or may use anything within arms reach. "Mofo,I'm gonna f^^^ you up" seals his fate.Quote:
Originally Posted by 73hunter
Yep, and your fate to enjoy a long, expensive journey through the criminal courts system!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
It's far better to be judged by twelve than carried by six. Plead guilty to nothing and defend everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
I thought it was…. Act surprised, Look concerned, and lie your arse off !!Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
From reading the posts it seems some people almost wish this would happen or at least spend a lot of time fantasizing about it. The only thing missing is someone advising the nonsense of taking a kitchen knife and placing it in the dead perp's hand.
If you are serious about the subject you will improve your home security, consult a lawyer on how to conduct yourself in the aftermath and never post anything on line that might be used in court by the Crown to demonstrate intent if the police seize your phone and computers as part of their investigation.
Yepp. Same with threats of assault even without a weapon. If someone is advancing towards you menacingly and enters your personal space or touches you, it's already a fight at that point. You can go pre-emptive and not wait to receive numerous blows before you defend yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
Actually,if a neighborhood was prone to home invasions,I'd rather move to a better 'hood.Quote:
Originally Posted by Badenoch
Just to show you what goes on down here - On Sunday June 20 , in Carlisle, Ohio, two armed men allegedly entered a pizza business, attempting to rob it. The men, one of them wielding a large crowbar and the second a knife, sprinted toward the employees. An employee who is also a concealed carrier pulled his firearm and shot one of the attackers.The second suspect ran out of the business and was still on the run, according to the sheriffs office. In January Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine signed an expanded stand-your-ground law that said "a person has no duty to retreat before using force in self-defense, defense of another, or defense of that person's residence if that person is in a place which the person lawfully has a right to be." Accordingly, no charges are expected to be filed against the employee. (foxiness.com and who.com, New Caslisle, Ohio 6/20/21
So you see one doesn't have to be limited on how he or she is going to defend themselves - the crooks had a crowbar and a knife - the good guy had a gun - guess who won - studies indicate that firearms are used more than 2 million times a year for personal protection, and that the presence of a firearm, without a shot being fired, prevents crime in many instances
It's always safer when one can defend themselves
Attachment 42167
Apples to oranges comparison…Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaman30
Stupid comparison.Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaman30
Toronto has guns and gang crime, Haines Junction Yukon does not, there are more guns in Haines Junction therefore guns are good.
You are not going to win anyone over using stupid data that does not compare.
Well it makes more sense than your dumbfounded analogy. SMHQuote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Really? Comparing Chicago to Maine? My comparison seems pretty damn accurate.Quote:
Originally Posted by WillieBeno
So your admitting, more guns, less crime? :thumbup::thumbup:Thanks:thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
The point that you seem to keep missing is that the city with the most restrictive gun laws also has the highest rate of gun crimes in the state by a long shot, it's not even close. Their violent crime rate is 943 per 100k while the national average is 379. Obviously the only benefit for strict gun control is for criminals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Check these stats out if you want accuracy.
https://www.areavibes.com/chicago-il/crime/
It’s all about demographics!!!! Not to mention, Chicago has about twice the population as Maine.Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaman30
The numbers don't lie. Places where more good people have guns, less crime. Places good people have less guns, crime flourishes.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
Take guns away from good people and you end up criminals running the show. Afghanistan Taliban are taking guns away from citizens, hope is a lost cause for the innocent
Concealed carry equals equality for everyone.
Good people are on an even footing with the bad who think twice of pulling dumb moves.
Thank you SmittyQuote:
Originally Posted by smitty55