Mandated Vaccines - The law - Read about your rights

Quite simply put. No act or law exists in Canada to force you take a vaccine..FULL STOP period.

The recent announcements by the taking heads cannot be enforced (just like protesting during lockdowns - all thrown out in court), You fundamentally cannot be fired (that won't stop them from doing it), you cannot be forced into accepting a medical procedure. You cannot be forced to wear a facemask, I see a lot of talk on this forum and across many platforms. Educate yourself on your rights.

Section 7 of Charter https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sj...heck/art7.html

To understand how this applies to you is clearly given in case law, case after case clearly protects your medical freedoms to make your own medical choices. You cannot be forced to take a vaccine.

If the Feds (they have not yet ), invoke the FED EMA (The old War Measures Act), then your charter rights under Section 7, can be suspended using Section 1. There is a parliamentary checks and balances procedure to invoke Section 1. It would never stand up to legally in the case SAR-COV-2, as it is proven in provincial applications already - the data is not there from Provincial Health authorities, or was not presented in court (because they cannot).

Secondly, anyone facing work pressure also has the CHRC to fall back on even if EMA is invoked.

https://www.chrc-ccdp.gc.ca/en/about...discrimination

Anyone who is let go (DO NOT QUIT - EVER), has clear cut case under Section 7 (Kadhar VS GOC) and a legal valid case under CHRC for discrimination and a lawsuit without having to file a Class Action Lawsuit.

Please dont speculate educate yourself.

All that being said, any employer can do what they want, just like a questionable traffic infraction - and the onus remains on you to fight in court.

Thanks for the update Mark and reinforcing the fact that our civil rights are being trampled by non elected officials who are ill informed and imposing draconian laws and measures.

The lawyers have all along been saying as much...but since it's hasn't been through the courts yet, they are still only cautioning employers that they could be facing a Court challenge.

Once the Provinces take the lead of the Yukon and stand down the Emergency Measures from the Ministry of Health a lot of this nonsense will be come top a stop.

Great post line052.

I guess the unemployment rate will be increasing, especially in the health care sector lol


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Don't confuse a legal opinion from the very best lawyer with a judicial verdict. Until the courts decide it's just so much moderately well informed hot air.

As usual, you have stated incorrect facts. The very best lawyers have taken this court and all the way to supreme court, within the link is numerous case law examples...but as usual...you inferred a falsehood to sow confusion.

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

Don't confuse a legal opinion from the very best lawyer with a judicial verdict. Until the courts decide it's just so much moderately well informed hot air.

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Originally Posted by line052

As usual, you have stated incorrect facts. The very best lawyers have taken this court and all the way to supreme court, within the link is numerous case law examples...but as usual...you inferred a falsehood to sow confusion.

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Mark you're being far too nice. Just call him out for being the liar he is and he knows it. Better yet, just everyone ignore him and he'll slither away like the snake he is.

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Originally Posted by Gregger17

I guess the unemployment rate will be increasing, especially in the health care sector lol


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In the short term,maybe,but,once the employer cases start getting tossed and lawsuits launched and won,I predict the people espousing such nonsense will scatter like cockroaches when you turn on a light.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

In the short term,maybe,but,once the employer cases start getting tossed and lawsuits launched and won,I predict the people espousing such nonsense will scatter like cockroaches when you turn on a light.

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The courts are about to become extremely busy!!!!!

To add to what Mark has posted:

from: https://ca.news.yahoo.com/companies-...080000021.html


What charter rights might apply to vaccine mandates?

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There are potentially at least three sections of the charter that could be used by a government employee to challenge a vaccine mandate, including Section 7 — the right to life, liberty and security of the person.

That could be cited to challenge "a policy that seems to coerce people into getting vaccinated," wrote University of B.C. law professor Debra Parkes and University of Ottawa law professor Carissima Mathen in a recent editorial.

However, Bryan Thomas, adjunct professor at the University of Ottawa's Centre for Health Law, Policy & Ethics, says he believes challenges under Section 7 are unlikely to be successful because that section doesn't protect an individual's economic interests or "your ability to retain a job."

Section 15, which offers protection from discrimination, could also be invoked but Thomas says he believes it would fail as an argument because an employer is not actually discounting anyone's interests.

WATCH | All kinds of employers grappling with vaccine mandates

"[They're] making up kind of this a legitimate form of discrimination and saying, you know, you unvaccinated person pose a great risk to yourself and to others by entering the workplace," said Thomas.

Section 2A, the so-called religious exemption, or freedom of conscience, could also be applicable.

Parkes and Mathen wrote that this an underdeveloped area of charter law, but could be relevant "where a person has a sincerely held belief that the vaccination is harmful to their health or, in some other way, deeply wrong."

But Thomas said someone who is vaccine hesitant, for example, couldn't claim that's a freedom of conscience issue.

"The courts have a more rigorous test or standard for conscience," he said. "It has to be something that's akin to a religion in your life."

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Sounds to me like… employers have the right….Charter arguments will fail, as Sec7 doesn’t apply. There will be lots of rich lawyers around !!!
I highly doubt that these Governments, businesses, banks, Municipalities, etc., etc., that have initiated vaccine mandates, have done so without doing their due diligence !!!!

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Originally Posted by Gregger17

I guess the unemployment rate will be increasing, especially in the health care sector lol


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Over 3 million people quit their job in the USA in july . That's when the health care workers were supposed to be vaxxed by I'm sure many health care workers walked some will fight it through .

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Originally Posted by line052

Quite simply put. No act or law exists in Canada to force you take a vaccine..FULL STOP period.

The recent announcements by the taking heads cannot be enforced (just like protesting during lockdowns - all thrown out in court), You fundamentally cannot be fired (that won't stop them from doing it), you cannot be forced into accepting a medical procedure. You cannot be forced to wear a facemask, I see a lot of talk on this forum and across many platforms. Educate yourself on your rights.

Section 7 of Charter https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sj...heck/art7.html

To understand how this applies to you is clearly given in case law, case after case clearly protects your medical freedoms to make your own medical choices. You cannot be forced to take a vaccine.

If the Feds (they have not yet ), invoke the FED EMA (The old War Measures Act), then your charter rights under Section 7, can be suspended using Section 1. There is a parliamentary checks and balances procedure to invoke Section 1. It would never stand up to legally in the case SAR-COV-2, as it is proven in provincial applications already - the data is not there from Provincial Health authorities, or was not presented in court (because they cannot).

Secondly, anyone facing work pressure also has the CHRC to fall back on even if EMA is invoked.

https://www.chrc-ccdp.gc.ca/en/about...discrimination

Anyone who is let go (DO NOT QUIT - EVER), has clear cut case under Section 7 (Kadhar VS GOC) and a legal valid case under CHRC for discrimination and a lawsuit without having to file a Class Action Lawsuit.

Please dont speculate educate yourself.

All that being said, any employer can do what they want, just like a questionable traffic infraction - and the onus remains on you to fight in court.

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Good post.

I myself have a much easier approach, however: just tell people you identify as vaccinated (checkmate, liberals!)

Of course you could also claim it’s against your religion. Christianity? Haha no...good luck objection on those grounds! I’m talking about the big kahuna, the get out of anything card, just claim ‘islamophobia’ and everyone will grovel at your feet and give you special treatment.

Glad I could help.

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

Sounds to me like… employers have the right….Charter arguments will fail, as Sec7 doesn’t apply. There will be lots of rich lawyers around !!!
I highly doubt that these Governments, businesses, banks, Municipalities, etc., etc., that have initiated vaccine mandates, have done so without doing their due diligence !!!!

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Here is a legal opinion on the subject.

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CS5Axoi...dium=copy_link


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHbMMf2c6KI

Excellent post, Thanks Line 052. I'm pretty sure this is a ploy to coerce those who are on the fence into getting jabbed.Attachment 42157

Canadian Government Bluffing?
https://rumble.com/vldhev-the-canadi...0Rha_011hkVQoI

Remember when they had to wear a yellow six sided star, well now you need a covid passport so big brother can track your every move. Just wait, maybe already doing it, there will be a card reader to enter all those places requiring it.

Your Rights to Refuse the Jab.
https://standupcanada.solutions/righ...Rpi1ow0bLU0hcQ

Anyone is of course free to believe whatever whacked-out shysters the anti-vaxxers look to for their legal opinions.

Meanwhile in the real world...

https://windsor.ctvnews.ca/mandatory...yers-1.5559659

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Mandatory vaccine rules likely to standup in court: Employment lawyers
CTV Windsor reporter Michelle Maluske
Published Tuesday, August 24, 2021

WINDSOR, ONT. -- Two Canadian employment lawyers tell CTV News mandatory vaccine policies will be difficult for people to fight.

“Employees are unfortunately going to have to get vaccinated in order to return to work,” says Athan Makrinos.

Makrinos says employers are within their rights and are legally bound to provide a safe work environment.

“They could be liable for millions and millions in damages if they don’t (and an employee gets COVID from the workplace),” adds lawyer Howard Levitt.

Both acknowledge that COVID is a new crisis, and none of the vaccine policies have yet been challenged in court.

However, they both say they are confident an employee would not be successful if they tried to fight for severance pay or to be reinstated, if they lose their job over vaccine status.

“Individuals who do not have a medical or religious bona fide reason for not receiving the vaccine will not meet success, should they escalate this to an actual, real grievance,” says Makrinos.

Levitt adds the number of Canadians who will qualify for a medical or religious exemption is extremely low

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Before anyone puts their employment in jeopardy based on on-line advice from anti-vaxx shysters keep in mind that blue-chip Bay Street law firms in Toronto, the very best legal minds in the country, have no doubts about the legality of mandatory vaccination requirements and are introducing them in their workplaces.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busi...cine-mandates/

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Law firms embrace COVID-19 vaccine mandates
JAREN KERRMERGERS AND ACQUISITIONS REPORTER
PUBLISHED AUGUST 25, 2021
UPDATED 1 DAY AGO

Several Bay Street law firms are joining a wave of Canadian companies that now require employees to be fully vaccinated to return to the office.

In recent weeks, large employers such as Sun Life Financial Inc., University Health Network and Canada’s five largest banks have announced mandatory vaccination policies. Nine corporate law firms told The Globe and Mail they, too, have implemented vaccine mandates, or plan to in the near future.

Osler, Hoskin & Harcourt LLP, Wildeboer Dellelce LLP, Fasken, McMillan LLP, Gowling WLG Canada, Norton Rose Fulbright Canada LLP, Cassels Brock & Blackwell LLP, McCarthy Tétrault LLP and Lenczner Slaght LLP make up the list.

Borden Ladner Gervais LLP, the country’s largest law firm, said it is “strongly encouraging” its workers to be vaccinated. BLG said it will make a firm decision on its vaccine policy after collecting the results of a survey sent to its 1,928 employees.

The COVID-19 pandemic forced remote work on many white-collar employees, and managers across corporate Canada have seen proof that their workforces can still be productive taking calls in their living rooms. But with 73 per cent of Canadians age 12 and older now fully vaccinated against the coronavirus, some executives are eager to bring staff back to the office, where they believe there is better communication, more camaraderie and a stronger sense of a common goal.

“The walls around the unvaccinated are crumbling down,” said Perry Dellelce, one of the founders of Wildeboer Dellelce LLP and managing partner. The firm announced a mandatory vaccination policy on Aug. 16.

“It’s just ridiculous and lacks common sense to not follow the science and to not get vaccinated,” Mr. Dellelce said, adding that, so far, he has only received positive feedback about the policy from his employees.

Several firms told The Globe their vaccine mandates will come into effect in September, together with their plans to bring lawyers back to the office. The vaccine mandate at Norton Rose Fulbright, for example, begins on Sept. 15.

“We did so because we believe vaccination is safe; it’s necessary to protect our people and their families; and it’s the right thing to do for the country to recover and move forward,” said Barbara Timmins, a spokeswoman for the firm.

Some firms told The Globe their vaccination policies make room for exceptions. McCarthy Tétrault, which enacted its policy on Aug. 23, is giving unvaccinated employees paid time off to get their shots by Sept. 30. It will consider exemption requests from “those who cannot be vaccinated due to medical or other grounds,” according to Pat Dean, a consultant at the firm.

“If a firm member is granted an exemption, they will be accommodated in a way that protects their safety and other members of the firm’s safety as much as possible,” he said.

Exemptions for medical and religious reasons will be an option at Cassels Brock as well. Its vaccine mandate also includes outside vendors and visitors. The 600-person firm is currently in the first phase of a three-step return-to-office plan, which makes attendance voluntary for now. On Nov. 1, the firm will officially begin a hybrid work model, with employees working at the office for part of the week.

Mr. Dellelce said a vaccine mandate will make office collaboration possible again, which he believes is necessary to get the best out of employees.

“We can’t build a business with satisfaction, challenge, growth, excitement, innovation, remotely,” he said. “You need to live the failures and enjoy the successes together in person … there’s no substitute for that.”

He added the return to the office will benefit young lawyers who need mentorship to advance their careers. Many people in the legal industry have expressed concern the pandemic and remote work have stunted the development of early-career lawyers.

“Mentorship of our young people is not the same, for sure,” Mr. Dellelce said. “Our young people will not be as good lawyers as a result of this [pandemic], or it will take time ... you can’t walk through a legal issue or a document without having that interaction.”

Ottawa has made vaccination a requirement for federal public servants, and said it expects Crown corporations and employers in federally regulated industries, such as telecommunications and insurance, to do the same. Rogers Communications Inc. and insurer Canada Life Assurance Co. are among companies that have recently enacted vaccine mandates.

Many smaller workplaces are also in favour of vaccine mandates. In a recent poll by KPMG Canada, 62 per cent of Canadian small and medium-sized businesses said they plan to make vaccinations mandatory for employees.

The wave of employer mandates is happening as more venues for leisure and recreation are requiring vaccinations to enter. Restaurants across the country have enforced vaccine policies, and Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment – which owns the Toronto Maple Leafs, Toronto Raptors and Scotiabank Arena – will require proof of vaccination or a negative COVID-19 test result to enter its events.

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So your options are to convince your employer you have joined a new religion or convince a doctor that you are exempt on legitimate "medical grounds." Don't expect your employer to just take your word for it and be prepared to provide proof.

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

Anyone is of course free to believe whatever whacked-out shysters the anti-vaxxers look to for their legal opinions.

Meanwhile in the real world...

https://windsor.ctvnews.ca/mandatory...yers-1.5559659



Before anyone puts their employment in jeopardy based on on-line advice from anti-vaxx shysters keep in mind that blue-chip Bay Street law firms in Toronto, the very best legal minds in the country, have no doubts about the legality of mandatory vaccination requirements and are introducing them in their workplaces.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busi...cine-mandates/



So your options are to convince your employer you have joined a new religion or convince a doctor that you are exempt on legitimate "medical grounds." Don't expect your employer to just take your word for it and be prepared to provide proof.

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LMAO, Sounds like another one of your fantasy mandates. Why would I provide proof of anything when I'm not legally bound to disclose my personal medical history.

The Windsor news article the lawyer is quoted employees would not be successful in receiving severance if you don't vaccinate. Here he states the opposite, like everything else on the News you will find what "YOU" want to believe

https://toronto-employmentlawyer.com/videos/

Some real news not CTV propaganda.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W1kuF8UnzE

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Originally Posted by WillieBeno

LMAO, Sounds like another one of your fantasy mandates. Why would I provide proof of anything when I'm not legally bound to disclose my personal medical history.

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Having a physician attest in writing that you meet the criteria for a medical exemption is not providing your specific medical history. You can expect to be asked to provide proof from a pastor or other church official if you are claiming a religious exemption as well.

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

Having a physician attest in writing that you meet the criteria for a medical exemption is not providing your specific medical history. You can expect to be asked to provide proof from a pastor or other church official if you are claiming a religious exemption as well.

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What part of not under obligation to disclose don't you understand? You can ask all you want.

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Originally Posted by WillieBeno

What part of not under obligation to disclose don't you understand? You can ask all you want.

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Absence of proof that an individual meets the immunization standard set by the employer, government, facility owner, etc. will be sufficient to deny entry and in the case of an employer send you home unpaid unless you can provide evidence of an a exemption on religious or medical grounds.

"In response to the federal government’s recent policy mandating Covid-19 vaccinations for all federal employees, Police on Guard, along with Rocco Galati, of the Constitutional Rights Centre, have launched a federal employee lawsuit!"

Joining details to participate:

– Only email the officially designated ProtonMail email account to convey your interest, at [email protected] Please provide your full name, phone number and preferred language.

If you are going to join this action, this is the criteria:

#1. You must be a Federal Employee

#2. You must not be vaccinated against Covid-19

#3. Do not resign from your job

#4. Do not partake in PCR testing, or any other testing that may be implemented in the future, to the best of your ability.

#5. You must not have presented your employer with an exemption letter.

https://policeonguard.ca/rocco-galat...JCwSH-W7LCAdK8

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

Absence of proof that an individual meets the immunization standard set by the employer, government, facility owner, etc. will be sufficient to deny entry and in the case of an employer send you home unpaid unless you can provide evidence of an a exemption on religious or medical grounds.

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Again I do not have any obligation to share my medical history vaccine status with anyone but my Dr. in fact it is protected by law. Same goes for my religious denomination that is between me and God.

Press conference yesterday in regards to the filing of the Statement of Claim in the legal action against the Federal and BC governments.

https://rumble.com/vlq5vq-press-conf...W-DP_6dokUeRbI

Many companies coming forth with conditional employment on being vaccinated ...

Air Canada basically told their employees, no vaccine ... go on volunteered lay off.
My company just said it's a condition of employment ... they won't fire people, but there will be severe limitations (and I do agree with some, for example you will not be able to attend large gatherings in person).

Every day more and more companies come forward with policies that will treat vaccinated differently to unvaccinated.

If you're fighting for your rights ... you're losing that battle almost as fast as Taliban took over Afghanistan.

Can't blame a company if they pass on the cost of asserting your rights.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/25/delt...d-vaccine.html

Better leave a "booster status" section open on that passport. It will have to be updated regularly.



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Originally Posted by MarkB

Many companies coming forth with conditional employment on being vaccinated ...

Air Canada basically told their employees, no vaccine ... go on volunteered lay off.
My company just said it's a condition of employment ... they won't fire people, but there will be severe limitations (and I do agree with some, for example you will not be able to attend large gatherings in person).

Every day more and more companies come forward with policies that will treat vaccinated differently to unvaccinated.

If you're fighting for your rights ... you're losing that battle almost as fast as Taliban took over Afghanistan.

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Those fighting for rights and freedoms, have better chances than those who lay down like sheep and allow themselves to be walked over.
It wont end well for people or businesses expecting employees to line up every eight months for booster shots. If you think your fully vaccinated, guess again

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Originally Posted by GW11

Better leave a "booster status" section open on that passport. It will have to be updated regularly.

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It'll be like a 'Loyalty' card...get the pharmacist to paper punch the next shot # in your Covid passport....get all 10 punched and get a free 'Property of Pfizer' tattoo HaHa...

Looks like mandating vaccines is a bad idea. O'toole is pro-choice
Attachment 42168

I wonder if it'll end up being a bi-annual shot, as the Pfizers/Moderna vaccines are only good for stopping the spread of the virus for 4-6 months.

It took 4 months to get the population vaccinated up to 75%, their goal is 90%+. So theoretically, these vaccine clinics could be running permanently 9-9 every day 7 days a week, year-round to try and keep 90% of the population fully vaccinated in accordance with mandatory requirements with the latest 'booster' shot. Sounds like another Liberal job creation fiasco

Turn all the 'haves' into drug addicts HaHa...make the shareholders rich Haha.

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Originally Posted by canadaman30

Looks like mandating vaccines is a bad idea. O'toole is pro-choice
Attachment 42168

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The Prime Minister only controls federal government employees. Everyone else is covered under provincial legislation and Ford it seems is waving on a vaccine passport.

https://www.thestar.com/politics/pro...hin-weeks.html

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COVID-19 vaccination passports coming to Ontario ‘within weeks’
By Rob Ferguson Queen's Park Bureau
Fri., Aug. 27, 2021

Premier Doug Ford is reversing course and bringing a COVID-19 vaccination passport system to Ontario, the Star has learned.

“The guidance will be clear. In order to access some non-essential services and events you will have to be vaccinated,” a senior government source said Friday.

No specific date has been set for the passport system to go into effect, but the goal is to have it ready “within weeks,” added the source, speaking anonymously to discuss internal deliberations.

The plan will go to cabinet next week after more than a month of growing pressure from businesses, health organizations and opposition parties.

Their push had met with resistance in the premier’s office, despite a steadily rising number of COVID-19 cases driven by the highly contagious Delta variant.

The increasing number of new cases and hospitalizations — both of which have more than tripled this month — forced the government’s hand, along with the experiences of other provinces and places like the United States, where hospitals in areas with low vaccination rates are already reaching their breaking points.

“Our vaccination rate is good but Delta is deadly,” said the source, acknowledging there will be pushback in some quarters to the plan, which will be similar to those in Quebec and British Columbia.

It’s not yet clear whether the plan will allow for negative tests in lieu of vaccination. Work on the policy will continue over the weekend, the source added.

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The increasing number of new cases and hospitalizations — both of which have more than tripled this month

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Tripled is relative...in a province of 14 million people ...hospitalizations going from 100 at the end of July to 300 at the end of Aug..is factually 3x ...but in reality only an increase of 200 patients...province wide..not even a blip statistically.

See what happens when you read the headlines but not the facts... :)

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Tripled is relative...in a province of 14 million people ...hospitalizations going from 100 at the end of July to 300 at the end of Aug..is factually 3x ...but in reality only an increase of 200 patients...province wide..not even a blip statistically.

See what happens when you read the headlines but not the facts... :)

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Facts can get in the way of the agenda.

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Originally Posted by fratri

Facts can get in the way of the agenda.

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That's right. When MSM continues to promote lies and Agents keep pushing it then there is only one solution for both.

https://i.imgur.com/I9o7Gz1.jpg

I would call him out...but warned by mods for using abusive words...so being better....

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Originally Posted by smitty55

Mark you're being far too nice. Just call him out for being the liar he is and he knows it. Better yet, just everyone ignore him and he'll slither away like the snake he is.

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I am privy to corporate info that describes the corporate position on firings of UnVaxxed employees and they are aware of the legal implications and how you cannot fire someone for this. The position exists within contract law and signed terms of employment, union agreements and individual contracts for work.

Corporations are changing hiring criteria to include must be vaxxed in new term of employment offers and union negotiaions (especially Public Service), it will now be in the union members hands to vote in those changes or not. It will then be the out for employers to include contract terms in agreements.

This is how forced coercion is enacted, I have always said it will never be the public sector that feels the pressure but the private sector that reacts first due to liability.

Lastly, to reiterate the FEDs have never enacted the EMA on a national level and until they do - Section 1 of charter which allows the Feds to suspend all other Charter rights in a national emergency (such as forcing vax on PS), can never be enforced.

I still believe the Libs will get a majority (I hope not), because of the gifts of tax payer money they have gave away to the detriment of our children's debt. I also believe the PPC will gain about 40 seats in the election.

Even it if the Libs get another minority the GR/NDP have already confirmed they stand with Lib minority, and form government.

Are you awake yet? Do you care about freedoms and rights, because this is the last chance to vote out the 4 main parties. If not our children's children will be fighting the war to gain back freedoms and rights.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by line052

I am privy to corporate info that describes the corporate position on firings of UnVaxxed employees and they are aware of the legal implications and how you cannot fire someone for this. The position exists within contract law and signed terms of employment, union agreements and individual contracts for work.

Corporations are changing hiring criteria to include must be vaxxed in new term of employment offers and union negotiaions (especially Public Service), it will now be in the union members hands to vote in those changes or not. It will then be the out for employers to include contract terms in agreements.

This is how forced coercion is enacted, I have always said it will never be the public sector that feels the pressure but the private sector that reacts first due to liability.

Lastly, to reiterate the FEDs have never enacted the EMA on a national level and until they do - Section 1 of charter which allows the Feds to suspend all other Charter rights in a national emergency (such as forcing vax on PS), can never be enforced.

I still believe the Libs will get a majority (I hope not), because of the gifts of tax payer money they have gave away to the detriment of our children's debt. I also believe the PPC will gain about 40 seats in the election.

Even it if the Libs get another minority the GR/NDP have already confirmed they stand with Lib minority, and form government.

Are you awake yet? Do you care about freedoms and rights, because this is the last chance to vote out the 4 main parties. If not our children's children will be fighting the war to gain back freedoms and rights.

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Whatever mystery corporate info you've seen is contrary to blue chip Bay Street legal firms who are imposing mandatory vaccination and testing requirements for their employees.

Ontario's largest long term care companies have announced mandatory vaccination requirements for their staff and those who refuse will be put on unpaid leave. UHN in Toronto has committed to firing employees who refuse to get vaccinated. These are organizations that hire the best legal representatives as opposed to your mystery corporate info the source of which you have not revealed.

In Ontario you can fire anyone for anything. All you have to do is be prepared to pay appropriate severance and it's still an open question whether the courts would rule that firing anti-vaxxers in the interests of workplace safety would fall within the definition of termination with cause.

Still puffing up your chest about mandating vaccine for everyone Badenoch.
Do you have shares in those companies or simply paid to promote?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHbMMf2c6KI&t=7s

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Originally Posted by impact

Still puffing up your chest about mandating vaccine for everyone Badenoch.
Do you have shares in those companies or simply paid to promote?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHbMMf2c6KI&t=7s

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LOL. The same amount as Rocco Galati is paying you to help him fleece the gullible and stupid.

I would guess anyone who works in the “Healthcare” sector and is not getting vaccinated is looking for the “easy street” out$$$. I’m sure there the same ones that can’t wait too get outside and drive another cigarette down there lungs lol


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gregger17

I would guess anyone who works in the “Healthcare” sector and is not getting vaccinated is looking for the “easy street” out$$$. I’m sure there the same ones that can’t wait too get outside and drive another cigarette down there lungs lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Educate yourself.

https://ottawasun.com/news/local-new...9-0f22cc057424

"It started just days after she received her second dose of Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine. Red, blistering spots that were painful and burned began showing up on her legs. Within weeks, she was in the hospital, unable to walk because of the pain."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

Whatever mystery corporate info you've seen is contrary to blue chip Bay Street legal firms who are imposing mandatory vaccination and testing requirements for their employees.

Ontario's largest long term care companies have announced mandatory vaccination requirements for their staff and those who refuse will be put on unpaid leave. UHN in Toronto has committed to firing employees who refuse to get vaccinated. These are organizations that hire the best legal representatives as opposed to your mystery corporate info the source of which you have not revealed.

In Ontario you can fire anyone for anything. All you have to do is be prepared to pay appropriate severance and it's still an open question whether the courts would rule that firing anti-vaxxers in the interests of workplace safety would fall within the definition of termination with cause.

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No one is an antivaxxer until the experimental gene therapy is approved maybe you could stop using the derogatory term to promote your fantasy man dates as others have to be warned by mods to not call you out for what you really are, the term does little to legitimize your fantasies. Approval is unlikely as they don't work and as time goes on sub acute and long term along with already realized acute side effects will have their cure deemed worse than the disease. Furthermore when the use of ivermectin as a treatment becomes the norm and all the duped realize that they have been had all who have coerced their victims/employees will be sued into oblivion or worse. As for staff that are put on unpaid leave for refusing the experiment I'm sure they will figure out that it is essentially a constructive dismissal with prejudice and seek remedial remuneration as well as other damages. Even the best legal representatives will not be able to legitimately successfully litigate their case based on hope and not science that they can't provide. Kinda like trying to hit a target with the nicest gun on the range with only BS for shells. Now excuse me while I go clean my shoe.
https://rumble.com/vleq43-informed-c...f=6zof&mrefc=2

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

Whatever mystery corporate info you've seen is contrary to blue chip Bay Street legal firms who are imposing mandatory vaccination and testing requirements for their employees.

Ontario's largest long term care companies have announced mandatory vaccination requirements for their staff and those who refuse will be put on unpaid leave. UHN in Toronto has committed to firing employees who refuse to get vaccinated. These are organizations that hire the best legal representatives as opposed to your mystery corporate info the source of which you have not revealed.

In Ontario you can fire anyone for anything. All you have to do is be prepared to pay appropriate severance and it's still an open question whether the courts would rule that firing anti-vaxxers in the interests of workplace safety would fall within the definition of termination with cause.

---

Your last paragraph is false information.

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GW11

Your last paragraph is false information.

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Is there a court decision to the contrary, one that rules firing a person for being unvaccinated is termination without cause? If so please post a link.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

Is there a court decision to the contrary, one that rules firing a person for being unvaccinated is termination without cause? If so please post a link.

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In a unionized environment (which in related threads you also attempt to be an expert), most termination cases where just cause cannot be proven by the company an arbitrator will award the employee their job back and a settlement for their missed time.

In the 8 terminations I've dealt with in the past 3 years, 7 were reinstated with no loss of benefits, seniority or pay.

No link needed to prove that you can't fire anyone for any reason depending on the severance. Keep trying to prove yourself as credible though, the entertainment is second to none.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

Is there a court decision to the contrary, one that rules firing a person for being unvaccinated is termination without cause? If so please post a link.

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No one ( at least Federally) has lost their job yet...so no trial has been held yet...but you knew that right ??

The proposed 'Mandatory' mandate isn't to be in effect till Oct 23 ( I Believe) . By then we will have started the 'booster' campaign and we will all be back at square one until 80% have the booster shot.

Quote:

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August 13, 2021, the Government of Canada announced that it will require all federal public servants to be fully vaccinated as early as by the end of September 2021. In addition, the Government of Canada also announced its intention to require federally-regulated employees in the air, rail and marine sectors to be fully vaccinated by no later than the end of October 2021.

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Crazy they're going to be giving boosters already.......how on earth are these poor immune systems suppose to ever fight off any other common viruses that they are 100% going to encounter in the future??????

I watched a program on TV regarding employee rights etc. Two labour lawyers said since providing a safe workplace trumps all else, vaccine mandates would hold up in court…..just saying’.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GW11

In a unionized environment (which in related threads you also attempt to be an expert), most termination cases where just cause cannot be proven by the company an arbitrator will award the employee their job back and a settlement for their missed time.

In the 8 terminations I've dealt with in the past 3 years, 7 were reinstated with no loss of benefits, seniority or pay.

No link needed to prove that you can't fire anyone for any reason depending on the severance. Keep trying to prove yourself as credible though, the entertainment is second to none.

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No court has determined whether terminating an employee for not being vaccinated is just cause and anti-vaxxers in the health care system might not be able to depend on the union to defend them.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...818331687.html

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SEIU Healthcare Supports Mandatory Vaccinations
Aug 19, 2021, 13:57 ET

Union representing 60,000 healthcare workers supports mandatory vaccinations as a matter of workplace and public safety

RICHMOND HILL, ON, Aug. 19, 2021 /CNW/ - Sharleen Stewart, president of SEIU Healthcare, issued the following statement in support of mandatory vaccinations for healthcare workers:

"Today, we're reaffirming our position communicated in recent interviews in support of mandatory vaccinations for healthcare workers.

Members of SEIU Healthcare have asked their union to fight for safe workplaces.

In a recent survey, a vast majority of our union members showed support for mandatory vaccinations as a matter of workplace safety.

They told us that vaccinations mean knowing you're protected and knowing that the person you're working shoulder to shoulder with is protecting you.

COVID-19 is a killer. The Delta variant is even more deadly. No senior should die because of this virus and not one more healthcare worker should lose their life simply because they went to work.

As soon as shots arrived in Canada, our union worked with educators, doctors, scientists, and researchers to provide the facts about these safe vaccines. We're proud of the 90-plus per cent of our members who have rolled up their sleeves.

The time has come to vaccinate every person on the frontline of care who can be vaccinated. Doing so helps protect people who cannot be vaccinated, like our young children and the immunocompromised. This is about protecting healthcare workers, as well as the most vulnerable.

SEIU Healthcare is unwavering in our commitment to the safety of our members. Our members have asked us to work with the government on a responsible health human resource strategy that includes clear mandatory vaccination policies and that's exactly what we're prepared to do.

The provincial government has a responsibility to protect the lives and livelihoods of every single healthcare worker who was there for us during the pandemic but is unable to get vaccinated for religious or medical reasons.

SEIU Healthcare represents more than 60,000 healthcare and community service workers across Ontario. The union's members work in hospitals, homecare, nursing and retirement homes, and community services throughout the province. www.seiuhealthcare.ca

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

No court has determined whether terminating an employee for not being vaccinated is just cause and anti-vaxxers in the health care system might not be able to depend on the union to defend them.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...818331687.html

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You're going to see unions have to argue this both ways for awhile. In concept they are going to be on board with vaccines for all workers, but they're still going to have to defend the individual members who chose not to or otherwise can't be vaccinated. Suck and blow at the same time so to speak. Unions do it all the time.

Your post that I quoted is still false but you have since amended that statement to be specifically about termination due to vaccination status. We'll see how that plays out very soon.

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Originally Posted by LiveBates

Crazy they're going to be giving boosters already.......how on earth are these poor immune systems suppose to ever fight off any other common viruses that they are 100% going to encounter in the future??????

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Boosters should be coming by September everyone else is by then. They will be needed every 8 months according to the USA . Biden said something about every 5 to 6 months. By next year I wouldn't be surprised if the elderly will be taking it every 6 months.

Waiting to see how the flu shots turn out after a covid shot. Maybe they will do them together.

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Originally Posted by fishfood

Boosters should be coming by September everyone else is by then. They will be needed every 8 months according to the USA . Biden said something about every 5 to 6 months. By next year I wouldn't be surprised if the elderly will be taking it every 6 months.

Waiting to see how the flu shots turn out after a covid shot. Maybe they will do them together.

Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

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That's nuts ......Dr's and scientists have stated these shots are destroying people's immune systems....I still can't wrap my head around how they're getting away with this........its world wide immune system sabotage.....and people aren't listening to they're gut feeling that somethings not adding up....

Again your information factually wrong. Paramed, Revera, Extenda Care, have stated only for new hires, would the requirements be included in contracts and union negotiations collective agreements. Secondly no will be forced (your wrong) to take leave of absence, instead those cannot will still require Pan Bio testing and shield and facemask requirements while working in the private industry. The same rules are currently being discussed at PS union levels, with Unions pushing secure, and confidential NON discloser of private medical conditions.

Why do you even bother

Lastly NO cannot fire anyone without just cause, and you can without just cause if like you state, and are willing to face a lawsuit. Lior Sampfoir is getting quite rich off people like and your thinking. You know he is an Employment Lawyer and does nothing else. Ya might want to educate yourself …

You keep driving the anti-vaxxer nonsense, like it is some kind of a badge of honor to use that word. It clear the media, the government and people like you...have no idea the damage you are doing to children under 12 who labelled anti-vax or and that feeling is real in the 8-12 yrs across Canada which 13% of Canadian population. and they asking why...but what do you care!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

Whatever mystery corporate info you've seen is contrary to blue chip Bay Street legal firms who are imposing mandatory vaccination and testing requirements for their employees.

Ontario's largest long term care companies have announced mandatory vaccination requirements for their staff and those who refuse will be put on unpaid leave. UHN in Toronto has committed to firing employees who refuse to get vaccinated. These are organizations that hire the best legal representatives as opposed to your mystery corporate info the source of which you have not revealed.

In Ontario you can fire anyone for anything. All you have to do is be prepared to pay appropriate severance and it's still an open question whether the courts would rule that firing anti-vaxxers in the interests of workplace safety would fall within the definition of termination with cause.

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

I watched a program on TV regarding employee rights etc. Two labour lawyers said since providing a safe workplace trumps all else, vaccine mandates would hold up in court…..just saying’.

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They have to prove the workplaces wasn't safe....if 80% are vaccinated and herd immunity in about 25% (statistically) of unvaccinated having recovered from the virus...the level of exposure doesn't warrant an 'unsafe' environment...just saying back at ya :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishfood

Waiting to see how the flu shots turn out after a covid shot. Maybe they will do them together.

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The CEO of Moderna says the company is working on an Influenza and CoronVirus combo 'pill'....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

They have to prove the workplaces wasn't safe....if 80% are vaccinated and herd immunity in about 25% (statistically) of unvaccinated having recovered from the virus...the level of exposure doesn't warrant an 'unsafe' environment...just saying back at ya :)

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Like I said previously, there will be lots of rich(er) lawyers around when this all shakes out…

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

Like I said previously, there will be lots of rich(er) lawyers around when this all shakes out…

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Blanket mandates like this are full of legal holes..because it demands across-the-board compliance and enforcement for all employees. Federal Regulated employees in Moose Crotch Sask, where they haven't had a positive covid case since March of 2020 face the same requirements to be fully vaccinated to ensure a safe workplace. The workplace is already safe and forcing them to get vaccinated or lose their jobs will be easy for the Union lawyers to refute in court.

If it wins there, the win will hold for any Federal regulated employee across Canada.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GW11

Your last paragraph is false information.

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk

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Well, in a weird twisty way ... he's kind of right ... in fact it's pretty bad in Ontario. My wife was wrongfully dismissed (her boss was telling her to do treatments on a patient just to make more money, but it was going to damage the patient's skin, which my wife could have been held liable for) ... we lodged a complaint with the government. They found that there was a case of wrongful dismissal, and no notice or severance was paid. They sent her employer letters, fines, etc ... the employer simply did not respond to anything.

Government had no recourse ... basically told us, we're sorry, we've done as much as we are legally allowed to do.

So basically the law has no bite ... maybe we could have gone to court ... but no lawyer wanted to do that for 2 weeks severance pay, given she had only been working for the company for 8 months or so.

be interesting to see what will happen when due to 'Mandatory' vaccination...something like this happens !!

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According to New Zealand health officials, a woman died after she was administered the Pfizer-BioNTech coronavirus vaccine.

The country's health ministry said an independent COVID-19 vaccine safety monitoring board had concluded that the woman’s death was due to myocarditis which is a rare side effect of the Pfizer vaccine.

The health ministry said: "This is the first case in New Zealand where a death in the days following vaccination has been linked to the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine."

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

be interesting to see what will happen when due to 'Mandatory' vaccination...something like this happens !!

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Yeah really, I wonder if theyt were served a notice of liability prior?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GW11

In a unionized environment (which in related threads you also attempt to be an expert), most termination cases where just cause cannot be proven by the company an arbitrator will award the employee their job back and a settlement for their missed time.

In the 8 terminations I've dealt with in the past 3 years, 7 were reinstated with no loss of benefits, seniority or pay.

No link needed to prove that you can't fire anyone for any reason depending on the severance. Keep trying to prove yourself as credible though, the entertainment is second to none.

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk

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BINGO, his self serving posts are getting tiresome.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

I watched a program on TV regarding employee rights etc. Two labour lawyers said since providing a safe workplace trumps all else, vaccine mandates would hold up in court…..just saying’.

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why do we need 100% vax to have a safe workplace? If a person has been vaxxed then they have protection against anything that the unvaxxed can carry. Or does this thing not work? Simple question really. Is it effective or not?

The vaccines were effective in keeping you out of the hospital..it flattened the curve that the health community was so worried about from the get-go.

However the vaccine is degrading quickly in its efficacy in preventing you from of contracting the virus, down to 35% since it's initial 95%.

Stats say in Ont, for example, that 24% of those testing positive now are fully vaxxed and that number is climbing.

And it's beginning to fail in prevent getting you from being very sick with the virus again ( 60% of patients in the Hosptials in Isreal were fully vaxxed) These more transmittable variants appear to overwhelm the efficacy of the vaccine especially in those with comorbidity issues.


Ergo the need for a Booster shot soon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by M_P

why do we need 100% vax to have a safe workplace? If a person has been vaxxed then they have protection against anything that the unvaxxed can carry. Or does this thing not work? Simple question really. Is it effective or not?

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I think there's a number of things to consider:

- the main point of the vaccine is not to STOP the virus ... it can't. The main point is to reduce severity of illness, so our ICU is not inundated with COVID patients ...
- in an office environment, the theory is that an unvaccinated person is likely to become more severely ill, and cough and spew germs everywhere, increasing the rate of infection.
- there's some people who cannot take the vaccine for medical reasons (ex. have a blood clotting disorder), and they have a right to protection. If there's an increased risk because an unvaccinated person is coughing and spewing the virus everywhere (because they are more severely ill) ... then that person who wants to, but cannot get the vaccine ... is in a predicament.

That's the only real angles I can see ... and by the way, I am vaccinated, but I do understand people's reservations for not getting the vaccine because it was likely not sufficiently tested. I do not believe the conspiracy theories though ... they are not well thought out at all, in my opinion.

I still haven't got an answer to what fully vaxxed people are afraid of...you trust the vaccine don't you ??

In a room full of vaccinated people and one unvaccinated...who's at risk ?

You can't get it from him and he can't get it from you ...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MarkB

That's the only real angles I can see ... and by the way, I am vaccinated, but I do understand people's reservations for not getting the vaccine because it was likely not sufficiently tested.

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100% agreed on this point

Irony is in that all vaxx and MSM who scream that anti-vaxxers don't follow science, fail to understand that it's actually the opposite.
Because scientific method "involves careful observation, applying rigorous skepticism about what is observed" by it own definition.

Unfortunately, instead of trying to figure out potential solutions to vaccine side effects OR looking for an alternative remedies (different vaccines/supplements etc),
Our glorious politicians keep pushing mandates And trying to silence all opposing views (including those in medical community), thus themselves fueling the opposition.

This is a BIG strategical mistake imo, it's just getting more people who are less prone to believe the establishment; be it medical or political...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

I still haven't got an answer to what fully vaxxed people are afraid of...you trust the vaccine don't you ??

In a room full of vaccinated people and one unvaccinated...who's at risk ?

You can't get it from him and he can't get it from you ...

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Honestly, I don't give a crap ... I'm double vaxxed .... I'd have us all taking our masks off and getting back to normal, if I could.

The only thing, as I stated on another post is if our ICU is full of unvaxxed COVID patients ... and then someone dying of a heart attack or cancer, can't get proper treatment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tamtam987

100% agreed on this point

Irony is in that all vaxxholes and MSM who scream that anti-vaxxers don't follow science, fail to understand that it's actually the opposite.
Because scientific method "involves careful observation, applying rigorous skepticism about what is observed" by it own definition.

Unfortunately, instead of trying to figure out potential solutions to vaccine side effects OR looking for an alternative remedies (different vaccines/supplements etc),
Our glorious politicians keep pushing mandates And trying to silence all opposing views (including those in medical community), thus themselves fueling the opposition.

This is a BIG strategical mistake imo, it's just getting more people who are less prone to believe the establishment; be it medical or political...

---

Yes, agreed.

Only thing I'd say is, 100% risk elimination will be impossible ... you could never do enough tests on the vaccine to conclusively say it is 100% safe.
In fact, there will likely be disputing test data (and probably already is) ... and at some stage you have to make a decision as to whether the risk is low enough, or not.
It will never be zero ... and that's okay. For example, there's a risk of dying from eating cereal that has bacterially infected mouse faeces in it. Or flesh eating bacteria people
get when they swim (with an open wound ... like a small cut) ... or even driving a car. At some stage, you cannot let the data paralyze you ... and have to decide that the risk is or
isn't at a suitable level. The science will make your head spin ... and be forever argued.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MarkB

The only thing, as I stated on another post is if our ICU is full of unvaxxed COVID patients ... and then someone dying of a heart attack or cancer, can't get proper treatment.

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With only 20% of the population unvaccinated and statistically only 4% of them will get sick enough to be hospitalized (based on data from #1,#2 #3 waves) the issue of the ICU being overwhelmed is (or at least should be) a non issue.

They made it through all last year, with 100% unvaccinated, they weren't overwhelmed.

Unaware that he was on a hot mic and being broadcast live on a TV station, Israeli health minister Nitzan Horowitz admitted that vaccine passports were primarily about coercing skeptical people to get the vaccine.

https://summit.news/2021/09/13/hot-m...bout-coercion/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bushwhacker

Unaware that he was on a hot mic and being broadcast live on a TV station, Israeli health minister Nitzan Horowitz admitted that vaccine passports were primarily about coercing skeptical people to get the vaccine.

https://summit.news/2021/09/13/hot-m...bout-coercion/

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Reminds me of a couple of numb nuts in Toronto as well.

i work in health care and have been working on a covid unit with no vaccine when this started. im told thru local news that they wont force us to get vaccine but regular testing is needed to continue to work after a certain date. im not anti vaccine or pro. should be your own choice what goes in your body.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bushwhacker

vaccine passports were primarily about coercing skeptical people to get the vaccine.

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Anyone who hasn't drunk the Koolaid has figured that out...all social engineering, no science. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bushwhacker

Unaware that he was on a hot mic and being broadcast live on a TV station, Israeli health minister Nitzan Horowitz admitted that vaccine passports were primarily about coercing skeptical people to get the vaccine.

https://summit.news/2021/09/13/hot-m...bout-coercion/

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Heard some health care workers I think in cali were on a zoom meeting trying to figure out how to make is sound more terrifying.
The one suggest that they still use the recovered that are still in the hospital for various reasons.

It's all being exposed little by little. All to put the fear into everyone getting the needle.



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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bushwhacker

Unaware that he was on a hot mic and being broadcast live on a TV station, Israeli health minister Nitzan Horowitz admitted that vaccine passports were primarily about coercing skeptical people to get the vaccine.

https://summit.news/2021/09/13/hot-m...bout-coercion/

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That is no surprise. The fear tactics are obvious, even here.

Ok so I’ve read all the posts on government and social media fear mongering and propaganda tactics, but I’m wondering. Do most of you not believe in the current infection and death rates that are being posted? Not only hear in Canada but world wide.

Seriously if this is all part of a bigger plan what’s the end goal? I’m not following.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Birdbuff

Ok so I’ve read all the posts on government and social media fear mongering and propaganda tactics, but I’m wondering. Do most of you not believe in the current infection and death rates that are being posted? Not only hear in Canada but world wide.

Seriously if this is all part of a bigger plan what’s the end goal? I’m not following.

---

I think you're being serious here so I'll try to break down some of the way I've looked at it. Explaining our thoughts is better than bickering over them anyway.

There are plenty of theories as to what the endgame might be but that's where people start to lose interest because much of it is hard to believe.

Start with thinking about who might be benefiting from prolonging a pandemic and go from there. There are and always have been treatments that work for viruses, we just aren't using them. For some reason they want everyone to take a new vaccine instead. Have a look at how much money is being made by companies like Pfizer. Think about "marketing" pharmaceutical products the same way hunting and fishing gear is marketed. A product like Ivermectin can be produced for a fraction of the cost of vaccines and it isn't under patent, so anyone can make it. Hence the recent Ivermectin smear campaign (horse dewormer). The vaccine companies would lose their big payday if there were other treatments available. They wouldn't have been allowed emergency use authorization for experimental vaccines if other treatments were available. Ivermectin is an anti-parasitic medication, and viruses are parasites. The "horse dewormer" headlines should be an alarm bell for anyone paying attention.

Think for a minute about how government would be acting right now if they came to the realization they were wrong about their initial response and have blown the bank on government assistance and vaccines. The media blew it through the ceiling and scared everyone to death. It's like SARS was for Toronto but worldwide and prolonged over years. The media completely destroyed tourism in Toronto over SARS for a time, people were afraid to go there. The government has put themselves a position where everyone has to take a vaccine now, they can't see any other way back. Somehow I can't see them saying "hey, we were wrong, covid is actually no worse than anything else, go back about your business". Even if they did, they've scared people so badly the people wouldn't buy it. Look at the current situation, vaccinated people are still afraid to do anything without "passports"!

If they keep pushing the fear and mandates almost everyone will get vaccinated, so theoretically the vaccinated should no longer be scared. Whether or not the vaccine is dangerous is beside the point now. As long as more people are dying "with covid" the "benefits outweigh the risks". Think about when government got it wrong in the past and continued to say they were right (Vietnam, Afghanistan, weapons of mass destruction). This is the "war on covid". Vaccinate everyone, control the flow of information. Casualties are acceptable during a war, right?

The degree of censorship on social media platforms should be concerning to everyone. You should be free to make up your own mind about what is BS and what isn't on the internet. There are plenty of doctors saying the opposite of the ones everyone is listening to, but they aren't being heard. Did all these doctors suddenly subscribe to crazy conspiracy theories? Scientific debate is being utterly stifled. That should be hugely concerning to all, especially those telling us to "trust the science".

You also need to keep in mind that there may be no endgame at all. This could be as simple as a few opportunists taking their respective opportunities to grab power and money when the pandemic hit, or it may have been planned from the very beginning and there is no "novel" virus at all.

Positive tests aren't "cases", and positive tests don't fill up hospitals. We could have an entire separate discussion about the reliability of PCR tests. Hospitals complained pre-covid about shortages of space and funding, this isn't new. We just have to pay attention now because of the "deadly virus". Healthcare professionals have been having their 15 minutes of fame for 2 years. We even have regular pandemic TV personality doctors on CP24 now, seriously. People are dying, but they were dying before covid too, it was just called pneumonia, congestive heart failure, complications of the flu and so on.

Believe what you see with your own eyes more than anything else. We've had 23 covid deaths in Peterborough in 18 months, hardly a blip on the radar. We've had 100 opioid overdose deaths during the same timeframe. Which one is the pandemic? It would appear I'm more at risk from desperate addicts than covid, but nobody is looking at that.

There is no pandemic here, it's a big city/mass humanity problem, exacerbated in places where healthcare and health in general was already a problem. There isn't a snowball's chance in hell that I would take a vaccine that has already injured and hospitalized some of my family to save myself from a "deadly virus" that I've seen absolutely 0 evidence of with my own eyes. I know a few people who "tested positive". None had symptoms worse than a mild cold.

I don't believe much that I'm told these days, especially if it comes from government or media. Short on fact and long on opinion, like this post was, ha!



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Quote:

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Originally Posted by GW11

I think you're being serious here so I'll try to break down some of the way I've looked at it. Explaining our thoughts is better than bickering over them anyway.

There are plenty of theories as to what the endgame might be but that's where people start to lose interest because much of it is hard to believe.

Start with thinking about who might be benefiting from prolonging a pandemic and go from there. There are and always have been treatments that work for viruses, we just aren't using them. For some reason they want everyone to take a new vaccine instead. Have a look at how much money is being made by companies like Pfizer. Think about "marketing" pharmaceutical products the same way hunting and fishing gear is marketed. A product like Ivermectin can be produced for a fraction of the cost of vaccines and it isn't under patent, so anyone can make it. Hence the recent Ivermectin smear campaign (horse dewormer). The vaccine companies would lose their big payday if there were other treatments available. They wouldn't have been allowed emergency use authorization for experimental vaccines if other treatments were available. Ivermectin is an anti-parasitic medication, and viruses are parasites. The "horse dewormer" headlines should be an alarm bell for anyone paying attention.

Think for a minute about how government would be acting right now if they came to the realization they were wrong about their initial response and have blown the bank on government assistance and vaccines. The media blew it through the ceiling and scared everyone to death. It's like SARS was for Toronto but worldwide and prolonged over years. The media completely destroyed tourism in Toronto over SARS for a time, people were afraid to go there. The government has put themselves a position where everyone has to take a vaccine now, they can't see any other way back. Somehow I can't see them saying "hey, we were wrong, covid is actually no worse than anything else, go back about your business". Even if they did, they've scared people so badly the people wouldn't buy it. Look at the current situation, vaccinated people are still afraid to do anything without "passports"!

If they keep pushing the fear and mandates almost everyone will get vaccinated, so theoretically the vaccinated should no longer be scared. Whether or not the vaccine is dangerous is beside the point now. As long as more people are dying "with covid" the "benefits outweigh the risks". Think about when government got it wrong in the past and continued to say they were right (Vietnam, Afghanistan, weapons of mass destruction). This is the "war on covid". Vaccinate everyone, control the flow of information. Casualties are acceptable during a war, right?

The degree of censorship on social media platforms should be concerning to everyone. You should be free to make up your own mind about what is BS and what isn't on the internet. There are plenty of doctors saying the opposite of the ones everyone is listening to, but they aren't being heard. Did all these doctors suddenly subscribe to crazy conspiracy theories? Scientific debate is being utterly stifled. That should be hugely concerning to all, especially those telling us to "trust the science".

You also need to keep in mind that there may be no endgame at all. This could be as simple as a few opportunists taking their respective opportunities to grab power and money when the pandemic hit, or it may have been planned from the very beginning and there is no "novel" virus at all.

Positive tests aren't "cases", and positive tests don't fill up hospitals. We could have an entire separate discussion about the reliability of PCR tests. Hospitals complained pre-covid about shortages of space and funding, this isn't new. We just have to pay attention now because of the "deadly virus". Healthcare professionals have been having their 15 minutes of fame for 2 years. We even have regular pandemic TV personality doctors on CP24 now, seriously. People are dying, but they were dying before covid too, it was just called pneumonia, congestive heart failure, complications of the flu and so on.

Believe what you see with your own eyes more than anything else. We've had 23 covid deaths in Peterborough in 18 months, hardly a blip on the radar. We've had 100 opioid overdose deaths during the same timeframe. Which one is the pandemic? It would appear I'm more at risk from desperate addicts than covid, but nobody is looking at that.

There is no pandemic here, it's a big city/mass humanity problem, exacerbated in places where healthcare and health in general was already a problem. There isn't a snowball's chance in hell that I would take a vaccine that has already injured and hospitalized some of my family to save myself from a "deadly virus" that I've seen absolutely 0 evidence of with my own eyes. I know a few people who "tested positive". None had symptoms worse than a mild cold.

I don't believe much that I'm told these days, especially if it comes from government or media. Short on fact and long on opinion, like this post was, ha!



Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk

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I appreciate your post. I’m not looking to bicker, I’m not a sensationalist. I’m just trying to find the logic in all this. I can’t simply believe it’s about the money. For as long as I can remember pharmaceuticals have always had deep pockets. Those that stand to gain financially already have, before, during and after this pandemic.

The government getting this wrong idea would be highly embarrassing. But, if ours got it wrong so did 90% of the world. Are they all scheming together? That’s a tough one to accept, especially with so many changing governments. It would take a lot of coordination. The idea of passports was recommended by many in the business and medical community. The government adopted the idea from them I believe. I believe the word fear is thrown around too much. I don’t believe the vaxxed or unvaxxed are afraid of each other. I think it has more to do with precautions. I don’t see the harm in having to wear a mask in a store.

Social media is a dangerous weapon. Anyone can be an expert. Anyone can say anything. The general population, I feel, has gotten stupider with the internet and social media platforms. It’s too easy to believe in anything and sway anyone (think 9/11 conspiracies). You don’t have to know anything anymore because google knows everything. The word google has become a verb, you no longer have to look something up, just “google it”.

The media spreading fear is not a surprise. ALL media competes against each other for viewership. They are also tailored to everyone’s preference (right vs. Left). I don’t think the stories reported are too far off, I think it has more to do about the presentation to achieve the desired effect. So while they may be reporting bits of truth, they only report “bits” and not the entirety.

No end game at all is a twisted joke. At least if there was a point to the madness it would make sense. Many lives were lost.

I hope we can agree on the fact that some kind of virus is travelling the globe. It is killing many people. We are all coping with this new reality in our own ways. From what is happening currently in Alberta, it is worth taking cautious measures. Everyone should have the choice on the vaccine.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Birdbuff

Ok so I’ve read all the posts on government and social media fear mongering and propaganda tactics, but I’m wondering. Do most of you not believe in the current infection and death rates that are being posted? Not only hear in Canada but world wide.

Seriously if this is all part of a bigger plan what’s the end goal? I’m not following.

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Although, covid, just like any other flu, is dangerous for relatively small segment of population with comorbidities, it's not for an average folks.

The overall infection counts are kind of meaningless based on the above statement, large portion of these counts don't even know they are sick or have very mild symptoms. Its like counting common cold cases, the number is big, but it does not mean that we have to put out tinfoil hats on.

The COVID-19 deaths are "probable or confirmed COVID-19 case" (https://www.who.int/classifications/...3GDGyuflrQYB3j)

That "probable" part is very much open for interpretation thus stats you see are inflated. Not to mention that they just don't add up when looking at various sources.


What is goal?
What do people with power want - more power..

The initial reaction/lockdown to covid news was knee jerk reaction based on fear of the unknown. Understandable, if I was at the helm in March 2020; big chance that probably would have made the same call.

But after the first lockdown, once it was pretty obvious that this is yet another flu and people are not dropping dead on the streets as initially predicted; the public has swallowed it by then,

so I think the good old "never let a panic go to waste" tactics kicked in and one could slide in a lot of moves under the "fighting covid" banners

Ie
Public attention diverted away from real problems of the day like crap economy, broken campaign promises, public mental health issues and so on...

Public money schemes on vaccines/ passport program / supporting med/pharma infrastructure

Blunt ignorance of citizens rights to pass any amendments to laws(guns, civil liberties, free speech, you name it )


I personally would have let all of the above points slide, of it wasnt for my kids being forced to take the experimental vaccine especially without requiring my consent

There are a couple of clues that there is more to this than meets the eye. One is that there is NO mention of the natural immunity obtained by those who have recovered from the virus.

There has been no effort to even capture that data for use in determining the overall numbers for herd immunity.

And there are no provisions to accept blood test results, proving your immunity ( 'T' cells) to obtain the so-called 'Vaccine Passport'. In fact, they say you still have to get the Vaccine shot after recovering to be considered for a passport.

Recently I read they are doing a study with school-aged children (under 12) and testing their blood to see how many are actually immune and it was over 20%. I imagine (statistically) they would find the same in the adult population...but so far no interest in knowing...just get the vaccine.

Something is not right.

A new poll has been conducted in Ontario and released this week.
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/on...bout-covid-19/

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Originally Posted by MikePal

There are a couple of clues that there is more to this than meets the eye. One is that there is NO mention of the natural immunity obtained by those who have recovered from the virus.

There has been no effort to even capture that data for use in determining the overall numbers for herd immunity.

And there are no provisions to accept blood test results, proving your immunity ( 'T' cells) to obtain the so-called 'Vaccine Passport'. In fact, they say you still have to get the Vaccine shot after recovering to be considered for a passport.

Recently I read they are doing a study with school-aged children (under 12) and testing their blood to see how many are actually immune and it was over 20%. I imagine (statistically) they would find the same in the adult population...but so far no interest in knowing...just get the vaccine.

Something is not right.

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Something is not right, I agree. But I think it’s too early to jump to conclusions. Questioning is good. The natural immunity question is a good one. I’m not sure why it’s not being given more thought or study.

A few people at work that contracted covid and beat it still got the vaccines on recommendations from there doctors. I’m not sure why. 3 of the 4 had flu like symptoms and were fine. 1 guy was intubated and in a coma for 3 months. He’s out of it now and slowly recovering. One guys wife lost her sense of taste and smell for a month, he says it’s still not back to normal.

Eventually this will all pass.

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“Reading these were absolutely terrifying. Suspending civil rights and liberties? Vehicle and pedestrian checkpoints? Police removing people from their homes? Jailing and fining those who hold dissenting opinions?” Hillier said.

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Scary..but I swear that it's coming with the fervor for getting 100% vaccination by the zealots in power.

The Village Idiot froths at the mouth when he condemns those that have chosen differently...HaHa.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Birdbuff

Eventually this will all pass.

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Pneumonia is the same, it is mild and easily treatable for most people but can be debilitating to some, more so in elderly people and is , up to now, the most common cause of death at Shady Acres. (sound familiar?)

There is a vaccine (Prevnar®13) for that now too ...but a very small percentage have gotten it..should we be making it mandatory to have the shot ... if it save lives ??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Birdbuff

Something is not right, I agree. But I think it’s too early to jump to conclusions. Questioning is good. The natural immunity question is a good one. I’m not sure why it’s not being given more thought or study.

A few people at work that contracted covid and beat it still got the vaccines on recommendations from there doctors. I’m not sure why. 3 of the 4 had flu like symptoms and were fine. 1 guy was intubated and in a coma for 3 months. He’s out of it now and slowly recovering. One guys wife lost her sense of taste and smell for a month, he says it’s still not back to normal.

Eventually this will all pass.

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It is sad to hear.

Wouldn't it make sense to spend the money into research of the exact reason the person was severely impacted by it (and actually finding the solution) instead of mass vaccination enforcement and all kinds of oppression programs?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Scary..but I swear that it's coming with the fervor for getting 100% vaccination by the zealots in power.

The Village Idiot froths at the mouth when he condemns those that have chosen differently...HaHa.

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I'm sure it is just over the horizon probably coming this winter.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WillieBeno

I'm sure it is just over the horizon probably coming this winter.

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Can't wait to see the barbed wire 'Covid Re-Education Camps' springing up across the country...part of the Village Idiots' work creation plans Haha.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Birdbuff

Ok so I’ve read all the posts on government and social media fear mongering and propaganda tactics, but I’m wondering. Do most of you not believe in the current infection and death rates that are being posted? Not only hear in Canada but world wide.

Seriously if this is all part of a bigger plan what’s the end goal? I’m not following.

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The end goal is the people that own everything want you to own nothing and be happy. Skip ahead to the 17 minute mark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gLFjun2hu8

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Can't wait to see the barbed wire 'Covid Re-Eduction Camps' springing up across the country...part of the Village Idiots' work creation plans Haha.

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Lol. The residential schools of 2021 [emoji3526][emoji3526]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Can't wait to see the barbed wire 'Covid Re-Eduction Camps' springing up across the country...part of the Village Idiots' work creation plans Haha.

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Apparently some are already built in Hamilton, ThunderBay, Moosenee, Manitoba, Vancouver. I'm sure there's more but those are the only ones I've heard of so far.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

There are a couple of clues that there is more to this than meets the eye. One is that there is NO mention of the natural immunity obtained by those who have recovered from the virus.

There has been no effort to even capture that data for use in determining the overall numbers for herd immunity.

And there are no provisions to accept blood test results, proving your immunity ( 'T' cells) to obtain the so-called 'Vaccine Passport'. In fact, they say you still have to get the Vaccine shot after recovering to be considered for a passport.

Recently I read they are doing a study with school-aged children (under 12) and testing their blood to see how many are actually immune and it was over 20%. I imagine (statistically) they would find the same in the adult population...but so far no interest in knowing...just get the vaccine.

Something is not right.

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This any good?

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-heal...-immunity.html

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Originally Posted by cramadog2

This any good?

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That study, if I read it right, proves out the those that were infected, recovered and then attempted to be re-infected had immunity from the infection that lasted 6 months.

I saw a study that also confirmed that AstrZenica was also trialed and it too held its 'immunity' to about 85% for 6 months....unlike the mNRA that degraded to about 40% after the same period.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireSt...ssary-79935446

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Birdbuff

Ok so I’ve read all the posts on government and social media fear mongering and propaganda tactics, but I’m wondering. Do most of you not believe in the current infection and death rates that are being posted? Not only hear in Canada but world wide.

Seriously if this is all part of a bigger plan what’s the end goal? I’m not following.

---

There's lots of theories out there, and some are completely wacked out ... like there's a plan to cull the world's population by 50% to 75%! What will the remaining people do??? They'll take up arms against their government and never trust them again ... it would be a disaster.

Here's what I think ... COVID is bad, I now know enough people that died from it (including one antivaxxer, and now the wife regrets the decision, having lost her husband last week), or got absurdly sick from it. How it got out, on purpose, by accident ... don't know ... doesn't matter, it's out there. Big pharm see the opportunity, and it was a race to get the first vaccine out there ... Pfizer and Moderna won that race ... huge $$ for them. Deals made with governments to get the population vaccinated ... so that's the purpose now ... and they'll do and say what they need to (fear of shut downs, fear of discrimination if you don't have a vaccine passport) ... to meet their targets. Do we need the vaccine ... probably. Italy proved it can get bad, uncontrollable. Is the vaccine tested sufficiently .... probably not.

Well it's about to get rough for everyone.

With the majority of population having the double jab.

ICU units are will almost be at the brink of collapse .

Nearly half of all the ICU beds are filled from our biggest wave. We had just over 1400 in ICU during the darkest days without vaccines. Now we have 633 people in ICU when we had like 70 at this time last year. With a shortage of workers we will be at the brink before December.


This vaccine passport crap will do nothing to bring cases down.

Seems to me more are in ICU with way less case's..


Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WillieBeno

The end goal is the people that own everything want you to own nothing and be happy. Skip ahead to the 17 minute mark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gLFjun2hu8

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They can go f themselves if they think they taking my stuff away.
Just pay off your debt, and they can't take anything away (legally).

A month ago, the 5 biggest banks mandated vaccines.

Inside info from a Royal Bank bank manager says that a poll was taken, the mandate was rejected and has been rescinded.

We can do this.

Hold the line.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bushwhacker

A month ago, the 5 biggest banks mandated vaccines.

Inside info from a Royal Bank bank manager says that a poll was taken, the mandate was rejected and has been rescinded.

We can do this.

Hold the line.

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"Inside info" from a bank manager? Did the teller confirm? Let us know if your rumour becomes reality.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

"Inside info" from a bank manager? Did the teller confirm? Let us know if your rumour becomes reality.

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Reality
Attachment 42418

NDP get burned...never ask a question if you don't know the answer in politics :)

Quote:

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Ontario's education minister says 50,000 people could lose their jobs if the province mandated COVID-19 vaccines for education workers.

Responding to the NDP in question period today, Stephen Lecce said such a policy would mean pink slips for tens of thousands of educators when Ontario already faces staffing challenges.

He says any unvaccinated staff member has to provide proof of a negative test to enter a school.

The government says the 50,000 figure includes education workers who are unvaccinated or won't disclose their status.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

NDP get burned...never ask a question if you don't know the answer in politics :)

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Forwarded comments:

Following last Thursday's defeat of Bill 12, An Act to enact the Mandatory COVID-19 Vaccinations in the Education and Healthcare Sectors Act, 2021, many requested the vote breakdown.

I provide it below, by party affiliation. You can also see the official version by clicking here.

For (16):
Green (1) - Schreiner
NDP (11) - Begum, Berns-McGown, Fife, Gates, Karpoche, Kernaghan, Mamakwa, Singh (Brampton East), Stevens, Taylor, Vanthof
Liberal (4) - Blais, Fraser, Hunter, Simard

Against (34):
New Blue (1) - Karahalios
PC (33) - Babikian, Bailey, Barrett, Calandra, Cho (Willowdale), Cho (Scarborough North), Coe, Downey, Elliott, Fedeli, Ghamari, Hardeman, Harris, Hogarth, Ke, Khanjin, Kusendova, Lecce, MacLeod, Martin, McDonell, McKenna, McNaughton, Parsa, Pettapiece, Phillips, Rasheed, Roberts, Sabawy, Skelly, Tangri, Triantafilopoulos, Wai

No Vote Cast (73):
Independent (4) - Baber, Hillier, Nicholls, Wilson
PC (34) - Anand, Clark, Crawford, Cuzzetto, Dunlop, Fee, Ford, Fullerton, Gill, Jones, Kanapathi, Kramp, Martow, Miller (Perry Sound - Muskoka), Mitas, Mulroney, Oosterhoff, Pang, Park (now Independent), Piccini, Rickford, Romano, Sandhu, Sarkaria, Scott, Smith (Peterborough-Kawartha), Smith (Bay of Quinte), Surma, Thanigasalam, Thompson, Tibollo, Walker, Yakabuski, Yurek
NDP (29) - Andrew, Armstrong, Arthur, Bell, Bisson, Bourgouin, Burch, French, Gelinas, Glover, Gretzky, Harden, Hassan, Hatfield, Horwath, Lindo, Matnha, Miller (Hamilton East - Stoney Creek), Monteith-Farrell, Morrison, Natyshak, Rakocevic, Sattler, Shaw, Singh (Brampton Centre), Stiles, Tabuns, West, Yarde,
Liberal (3) - Collard, Gravelle, Wynne
Speaker (1) - Arnott

Before hearing from you, PC MPPs were going to support the legislation.

On the same day that Bill 12 was defeated, during debate in the legislature a PC MPP said the Ford government has “seen many hospitals putting in place mandatory vaccine policies,” and “support[s] them making these choices.”

With your help, Belinda led the charge in the legislature against Bill 12, and forced enough PC MPPs to join her in voting Bill 12 down.

Since Bill 12 was defeated, there is no provincial law mandating vaccination across the education and healthcare sectors.

Just to let you all know (mostly for Banoch - so he can hate me more), I was duly elected as the Leader of the 5th Largets Political Party in Ontario over the weekend.

The Ontario Libertarian Party, tune into FB, and website as I take on the system.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by line052

Just to let you all know (mostly for Banoch - so he can hate me more), I was duly elected as the Leader of the 5th Largets Political Party in Ontario over the weekend.

The Ontario Libertarian Party, tune into FB, and website as I take on the system.

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Congrats Mark and best wishes in your political career path moving forward.