Seems to be a fairly normal thing in the states - wondering if people do that here as well? If so curious as to what breeds. (Apologies in advance if this should be in the Dog section)
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Seems to be a fairly normal thing in the states - wondering if people do that here as well? If so curious as to what breeds. (Apologies in advance if this should be in the Dog section)
Yes, in parts of Ontario, you can use hounds.....our camp uses Beagles, and over the years have had Walker's as well. I believe some use other types as well to track.......
Do you use beagles for bear hunting? Or if not what type of large game.. I always think of a beagle as a "rabbit dog" at least that's what we used to call them when i was a kid...Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveBates
Google is your friend with regards to what breeds.Quote:
Originally Posted by hikingquest
All sorts of breeds can and are used in Ontario to hunt big game, from jack russels on deer, Labs for deer, yes labs, Walkers, Plotts, etc for bear and all means in between. If they will chase big game they can and are used to hunt big game in parts of Ontario.
We use beagles for deer....unfortunately these days, the dogs we use have been pampered by a couple guys who look after them all year......I'd almost rather not even use them, as half the time they're on old tracks and not as good as the ones we used to have.......Quote:
Originally Posted by hikingquest
Don't blame having a dog as a family pet as the reason for it being bad at hunting.Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveBates
A buddy has Black&Tan bear hounds that he uses for Deer and Bears. They're damn smart and excellent family dogs.Quote:
Originally Posted by hikingquest
How would you like me to explain that the dogs we use now, are not as trained and not as good as some past dogs there Fox? Please don't use ballistics or any other nonsense that's usually posted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Hunting dogs do not need to be locked up on a 6ft chain all their lives, they can be family pets with no issues to their hunting abilities, ask me how I know? Beagles and walker crosses are what we used and they spent the nights inside, had heating pads in their pens when they were in the kennel and walked regularly, even with a shock collar to keep them close and guess what, they hunted like maniacs.Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveBates
What you are saying is suggesting that dogs for hunting cannot be pets and have to be treated poorly for them to hunt, I have a huge problem with that.
My dad has a small black and tan as he called it, I think it must have been a beagle/black and tan cross. They are beautiful dogs and the guys around dads place now in SW Ontario use them for coyotes.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
I had two redbone hounds back to back that were family pets...laid on the couch and watched TV with me year-round. Both use to come to camp with me a run deer for the week. Some of the finest dogs the camps had ever seen in 35 yrs.Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveBates
I also had a 3 legged beagle that lived in our house as a family pet....he came hunting with me as well. Great dog on deer, ran with the pack for the whole week, by mid-week he was out in front.
A good deer dog is genetic, mostly instinct.
You've been hangin with Greatwhite too much??????? Where on earth did I say any of that????? Where did I even hint at any of that????? I'm a dog owner and have been my whole life....for you to completely make false accusations about someone you've never met.....shows what kind of person you are..... .I stated the dogs are spoiled.....and they're not good hunters....thats it......great family pets......what's next, you gonna' state I beat and leave my dogs outside from that info????Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
It always made for a long day when old Frank used to bring his pet beagle out to run deer for us.
We usually only resorted to the pets when the better hounds ran off for a day or two.
In the 100-something years my family had the hound camp, the best deer dogs were the ones that my uncle kept outside in a kennel specifically as deer dogs. The rental dogs and the pets were generally not as good, but the odd one would hunt well enough.
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That's awesome, we've had some beauties too that were "sleep in the bed " and sleep all day dogs....but would always have a start in the thickest of thick....had some big sucks....and had some that were hard to call off even after shot....Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
This is exactly what you wroteQuote:
Originally Posted by LiveBates
"We use beagles for deer....unfortunately these days, the dogs we use have been pampered by a couple guys who look after them all year......I'd almost rather not even use them, as half the time they're on old tracks and not as good as the ones we used to have....... "
This is suggesting that a dog as a family pet is a crappy hunting dog.
That's what YOU are suggesting Fox......why is it when you read something and interpret in a Karen kind of way, you attack and draw conclusions with zero questions, zero anything really......anyway, I'm done with this.....I've invested way more than I should've into this.......Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
There is a group of people who used to hunt with dogs who believed that any dogs being shown love and as part of the family were no good for hunting, they would use a dog house, small chain, feed once a day and fill out their water, worse conditions than a cow.Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveBates
I never once said you did that to a dog, I said that a dog living in a home does not detract from their hunting ability, you are the one who made the rest of the assumptions.
I've been on bear hunts with blue ticks, plott, red bone and walkers.
Our camp likes short beagles for deer. The thought is the deer aren't pushed as hard and you are more likely to have a stopped or slower moving deer go by your watch when it's time to shoot.
On the other side of that I've heard theories that if you want to shoot mature bucks on a chase you need the longer legged bigger hounds to be nipping at the heals so the buck can't stop and figure out the chase (smell guys on stand)
Our camp hasn't shot a big buck in a long time lol
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That was a concern for sure...my Rebones could run a deer in a straight line for miles. Far to fast for most guys to be able to shot them. There was another camp down the road that use to benefit though, by the time the deer got to them they were plumb tuckered out.Quote:
Originally Posted by chesapeake
We also had a couple small dogs, mutts, but they pushed deer well, but very slow. Much easier for the watch shooters to catch the deer drying to sneek away from them. HaHa..
Before this gets too heated let me try to clear things up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
A dog sleeping on a bed or tied to a post doesn't make a good hunting dog.
Day in day out conditioning and reinforcement of skills makes a good dog.
Sorry you've done nothing to clear this up...I personnly have had 3 dogs that were great "Deer' hunters and blood trackers. I know of others that at local camps.Quote:
Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers
Now if you want to talk about bird - water fowling dogs...maybe you have a point, I don't know any off hand that were any good if not trained.
Pretty hard to keep a Hound in shape when there's no training or running season here in Ontario...For the most part it's on the job training when the season opens....
Beagles are the best deer dogs because they don't push the deer too fast. Deer will stop and listen when they get far enough ahead.
When a big hound is running a deer it's usually on its azz which makes for harder, more dangerous shooting or no shot at all.
I also agree house dogs aren't as good of hounds as a real hunting dog. They get spoiled, fat and loose their drive a bit.
My experience anyways...
We run big hounds for coyotes. We want the coyote to make mistakes by not having time to think about it, He doesn't have much time to think when a walker that's faster than him is closing the distance...
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I have only hunted with 2 legged dogs and really not much of that. Not saying it isn't a valuable tactic to hunt deer but I enjoy the challenge of pre-season scouting and the battery charging of the mind and soul when sitting in a well placed ground blind or tree stand.
Those that hunt with dogs....have at it. As long as you are hunting its all good!
Love watching my Walker close the gap on a big ole coyote. Watching those big hounds run is a thing of beauty. My guy is 10 now and slowing just a bit. He default is still to chase a coyote or racoon but can't be bothered with the snowshoe hares anymore. Strange to watch on the deck now at dusk when the hares come out. He watches them intently but no longer chases unless i give him the "get em" command. His default used to be chase everything unless instructed otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by SongDog
In " agricultural " southern Ontario Hounds might not make much sense when your sitting in a stand over a basket of apples. They are invaluable in North Frontenac or the Lanark Highlands.
Without question, the more training and conditioning a hound gets the better the consistency and quality of its performance will be.
I can't speak for you guys,but,I can't think of anything more exciting than hearing hounds baying on a track a way off in the distance and then listening to them coming closer and closer and closer until a huge buck comes exploding out of the bush with dogs right on them doing exactly what they've learned to do. Heart-stopping action is an understatement. I'm equally in awe of watching well-trained bird dogs work a cornfield for Pheasant and Grouse or watching cattle and sheep dogs working a herd and protecting against predators. I pity the people who,for one reason or another,never get the opportunity to watch good working dogs do their thing. It's like watching magic.
I've been running hounds for close to 35 years now and prior to that ran and trained retrievers and it's always been about the dog work. Watching a pup progress through the stages of becoming a finished hound or field trial champion... If you've never hunted over dogs be it duck hunting, upland game, deer or bear hunting you're missing out on an exciting way of hunting....
I’ve never hunted with dogs, but had an experience with dog hunters once that wasn’t too favourable. Once, when I was a young man, I was hunting near Griffith and sitting along a trail hoping that a deer would come by. Some time afterwards, I could hear a dog baying off in the distance. After a while, the dogs started coming my way. As the dogs approached my location, 2 guys showed up and butted me out. The dogs eventually showed up and chased a rabbit out, which one of the guys shot with his rifle. Not once did the guys acknowledge me. I guess they figured that any deer that their dogs run belongs to them. Sucks to be those that don’t run dogs I guess.
Don't blame the dog hunters for running into aholes, that is what you dealt with, they are in every group.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Menard
MP - Bird and waterfowl dogs need to be trained, but it's not so much training them to hunt, it's training them to be under control. The hunt/retrieve instinct needs to be there to start with. The training it is to training the dog to keep the hunt instinct under control so it's useful. Examples - training a pointer / spaniel to stay put after the flush/shot - "steady to wing and shot" - that's where that phrase comes from. Also having a waterfowl dog that can stay quiet in the boat/blind until he's needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
Agree with you 100%. Never tried bear hunting with hounds though. Ducks/grouse/deer - without a dog, you are missing 75% of the hunting experience. And even when your not successful, but the dogs were working hard, you know that you did your best. If the dog couldn't pick up a deer track or flush a grouse, you know that your lack of success was not you not seeing game - it was that there was none there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo D
Having a dog that is not trained or not having a lot of game drive and a dog being a pampered house pet really have nothing to do with each other.Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveBates
The only knock I have on "pampered house pet" dogs is that once they are leash trained, it makes them very difficult to use for blood tracking on a leash. They don't think they are supposed to pull and you need to make sure you always keep slack in the leash otherwise the dog will think you want him to stop.
I agree....."most" of our dogs over the years have been good, and usually got good by running with the older seasoned dogs. Majority of the time over the years, our best ones were the outside dogs....but....we also had a few that slept in the bed, did lotsa fun tricks etc... but 9/10 times......could get a chase started easily.....I've only ever hunted with dogs, so part of me is wanting to explore the up close and personal type of deer hunt that comes with a Xbow.....deer season can't come soon enough.........Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
I've been rifle hunting deer with dogs since the 1970's. Took up bow hunting (xbow) in 2008. It's a completely different game.Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveBates
For sure.....last year was my first with an Xbow, but didn't connect. Hopefully this year I can tweak some mistakes from last. Luckily I got tag for the rifle hunt, and an additional for bow around halton....I've shot deer with a dart in my mouth in front of the dogs.....but I know that likely won't be happening with the bow....lol....Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
I guess it’s like anywhere else, there’s good guys and there are not so good guys.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
I know that using dogs was really popular, especially in central Ontario. Is it still as popular?
I joined a camp here in South Eastern Ont some 25 yrs back and we ran dogs as did 4 other local camps. Throughout the years many of the camps have folded or the old guys passed and the younger guys don't run dogs anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Menard
Ours stopped using dogs due to low numbers of hunters and the area is now too over grown to be able to see the deer when there are on a run.
There are only two left now, thankfully one is next to my property and runs beagles, so I still get to hear them tongue from my stand.