Fully Vaccinated Test Positive and are Hospitalized...Manitoba

This is rather disturbing...the vaccine seems to be failing more and more. It's one thing to still get the virus, but the vaccines were supposed to keep you out of the hospital.

On Thursday, Manitoba public health officials reported 64 new COVID-19 cases – including 36 unvaccinated cases and 8 partially vaccinated cases. 20 of the cases were among people who had been fully vaccinated.


But what is starting to happen...some fully vaccinated are also ending up in the hospital:

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As of Thursday, 62 people in Manitoba are in hospital with COVID-19, including 26 people who have active cases. Of those active cases, 20 are not vaccinated, 4 are partially vaccinated and 2 are fully vaccinated.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

This is rather disturbing...the vaccine seems to be failing more and more. It's one thing to still get the virus, but the vaccines were supposed to keep you out of the hospital.

On Thursday, Manitoba public health officials reported 64 new COVID-19 cases – including 36 unvaccinated cases and 8 partially vaccinated cases. 20 of the cases were among people who had been fully vaccinated.


But what is starting to happen...some fully vaccinated are also ending up in the hospital:

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Vaccine does not stop you from getting the virus ... information of vaccinated vs. unvaccinated testing positive is irrelevant ... and really we also have a duty to stop fear mongering based on irrelevant data.

All that counts is severity of sickness ... as in how many vaccinated people are ending up in the hospital, relative to the % of the population that is vaccinated (considering that the vaccine is not 100% effective ... just like any other drug out there ... we would anticipate some vaccinated people still getting severe illness from COVID).

The point is what is # Vaccinated in ICU / Total population vaccinated, and compare that to # Un-Vaccinated in ICU / Total population unvaccinated ... compare these two ratios, and see if there is a big difference. Even if 55% in ICU is vaccinated, it still shows a reduced rate of severity, because right now in Ontario there are 5 times more people (80% of population has had 2 shots) vaccinated than unvaccinated ... which means a smaller % of the vaccinated population is getting severe illness from COVID. It would imply a 400% reduction rate in the severity of illness from COVID by getting vaccinated.
This is the math ... say 200 people in ICU in Ontario, half are vaccinated ... fear mongering would say, OMG!! 50% vaccinated in ICU, same percentage as unvaccinated ... OMG the vacccine isn't working! WRONG! That would be a foolish conclusion.
This is the real math ...

100 vaccinated in ICU, 100 unvaccinated in ICU
In Ontario of a total population of 14.6 million, 80% vaccinated ... or 11.7 million. Rest (2.9 million is unvaccinated).

100 vaccinated in ICU / 11.7 milliion vaccinated people = almost 9 vaccinated people get severely ill from COVID for every 1 million people vaccinated.

vs.

100 unvaccinated in ICU / 2.9 million unvaccinated people = almost 34 unvaccinated people get severely ill from COVID for every 1 million people unvaccinated.

Therefore, compare 34 to 9 ... it means that you are 4 times (400%) more likely to get severely ill after catching COVID if you are unvaccinated.

Based on this website (COVID-19 vaccinations data | COVID-19 (coronavirus) in Ontario) the real numbers are more like out of 318 people hospitalized for COVID in Ontario (not just ICU cases) ... and 64 have been vaccinated (at least one shot), and 85% of population has had at least one shot. So ... it's more like 5.5 per million for vaccinated vs. 88 per million for unvaccinated ... so really you are 16 TIMES MORE LIKELY to get severe illness from COVID 19 if you are unvaccinated ... that is 1600%!!!!!!

That is the ONLY metric that counts ... along with ICU capacity.

In Ontario the unvaccinated represent about 20% of the population but 77% of COVID-related non-ICU hospital admissions and 84.5% of ICU admissions.

https://twitter.com/jkwan_md/status/1438872823230078982

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Seatbelts don't save every life in a traffic crash. Kevlar vests don't save everyone who is shot. But like vaccines they improve your chances of survival and no one is suggesting that seat belts or Kevlar are not needed just because they are not 100 percent effective.

The point being made is, that this whole Vaccine Passport is a debacle doomed to failure.

The truth of the news headline below, is that Isreal is 4 months ahead of Canada in their vaccinations and already 60% of the fully vaccinated are ending up getting the virus again are ending up in the Hospitals.

Nearly 60% of hospitalized COVID-19 patients in Israel fully vaccinated, data shows.

This Vaccine Passport that everyone thinks will save us of the pandemic is a lie. The data shows that 60 % of those who received the double jabs will in the next 4 months be as likely to get the virus as there we're before the original shot. And as we're seeing just a likely to be hospitalized. No one will be immune, vaccination or not in a few months.

The vaccine is failing.

People who think they are immune due to having received it, will be in 4 months no better off than the unvaccinated are now.

Unless of course..as some saw coming...the Government orders, sorry mandates, another Vaccination with a 3rd shot of the same vaccine.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

The point being made is, that this whole Vaccine Passport is a debacle doomed to failure.

The truth of the news headline below, is that Isreal is 4 months ahead of Canada in their vaccinations and already 60% of the fully vaccinated are ending up getting the virus again are ending up in the Hospitals.

Nearly 60% of hospitalized COVID-19 patients in Israel fully vaccinated, data shows.

This Vaccine Passport that everyone thinks will save us of the pandemic is a lie. The data shows that 60 % of those who received the double jabs will in the next 4 months be as likely to get the virus as there we're before the original shot. And as we're seeing just a likely to be hospitalized. No one will be immune, vaccination or not in a few months.

The vaccine is failing.

People who think they are immune due to having received it will be in 4 months be no better off than the unvaccinated are now.

Unless of course..as some saw coming...the Government orders, sorry mandates, another Vaccination with a 3rd shot of the same vaccine.

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Be careful of these headlines.

If 100% of a country's population is vaccinated, then 100% of the ICU cases will be of vaccinated people. It would be impossible to have an unvaccinated person in ICU for covid, because there are none left in the population. Vaccine does not stop you from getting COVID. And although it significantly reduces the chances of getting really sick from it, there are still few people where the vaccine was not effective.

All that is important is the number of hospitalizations PER MILLION PEOPLE, and whether ICU is overwhelmed or not.

Check out this graph ... from Israel. Hospitalizations are actually way down for older people. For those under 59 ... looks like not as much.
The % of hospitalizations will keep climbing for vaccinated people as the population gets closer and closer to 100% vaccination rate.
That number on its own means very little ... % of how many ... a small number?

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/i...e?country=~ISR

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Originally Posted by MarkB

It would be impossible to have an unvaccinated person in ICU for covid, because there are none left in the population.

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With open borders, business and tourist travel to all 4 corners of the planet there is no such thing as 100%...once the efficacy of the vaccine wears off and your neighbor comes home from a vacation in XXX with the trusted Vaccine Passport in hand, infected with the virus and walks unabated thru the airport..it all starts over again.

The first 2 waves of Covid, nary a soul was vaccinated the ICUs never succumbed to the crisis. With vaccination rates approaching 80% there should NOT be an overwhelming of the ICUs. Unless the vaccine fails to protect us....which it's doing.

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Originally Posted by MarkB

Check out this graph ... from Israel.

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Your chart sucks... it only shows data from end Dec 2020 to Mar 2021..only 3 months..vaccination effectivity is still too new.

This chart shows what happed after June...6 months after the vaccination started

https://www.google.com/search?q=isra...hrome&ie=UTF-8

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Originally Posted by MikePal

The point being made is, that this whole Vaccine Passport is a debacle doomed to failure.

The truth of the news headline below, is that Isreal is 4 months ahead of Canada in their vaccinations and already 60% of the fully vaccinated are ending up getting the virus again are ending up in the Hospitals.

Nearly 60% of hospitalized COVID-19 patients in Israel fully vaccinated, data shows.

This Vaccine Passport that everyone thinks will save us of the pandemic is a lie. The data shows that 60 % of those who received the double jabs will in the next 4 months be as likely to get the virus as there we're before the original shot. And as we're seeing just a likely to be hospitalized. No one will be immune, vaccination or not in a few months.

The vaccine is failing.

People who think they are immune due to having received it, will be in 4 months no better off than the unvaccinated are now.

Unless of course..as some saw coming...the Government orders, sorry mandates, another Vaccination with a 3rd shot of the same vaccine.

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Exactly. The only thing I would add to that is going forward the vaccinated will be more susceptible to the variants, and this type of virus mutates quickly.

Vaccines are variant-specific, your immune system isn't.

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Originally Posted by GW11

Exactly. The only thing I would add to that is going forward the vaccinated will be more susceptible to the variants, and this type of virus mutates quickly.

Vaccines are variant-specific, your immune system isn't.

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Vacinated or not your immune system is the same. With a variant it may be close enough that the antibodies floating around will give you a head start if not both the vax and not vax start at the same point

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Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers

Vacinated or not your immune system is the same. With a variant it may be close enough that the antibodies floating around will give you a head start if not both the vax and not vax start at the same point

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I suggest you spend some time learning about the innate immune system and ruminate a little. Then look into what your innate immune system does (or doesn't do) when clouded by the "robust immune response" of an mRNA "vaccine".

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The sooner everyone gets the vaccine the sooner we can get back to normal.
Lol.

everyone is always up in arms when stuff was closed and people were told to wear masks and wash their hands ... now same with vaccines...

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Originally Posted by glen

The sooner everyone gets the vaccine the sooner we can get back to normal.
Lol.

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Aren't they looking for a new normal?

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Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers

Vacinated or not your immune system is the same. With a variant it may be close enough that the antibodies floating around will give you a head start if not both the vax and not vax start at the same point

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I wouldn't be so sure about that. I'm now seeing reports that the vaccines are actually reducing natural immune responses.

What's weird when you look at Israel they just had thousands of cases a day reported with very little in the hospital.
We have a few hundred cases and our hospitals are full.

Israel 10 thousand cases a day with 130 people in ICU and 1300 in the hospital .

Canada reports a couple thousand case a day and has 1900 in hospital and 660 in ICU.


Here is another problem chattem Kent area.
Hospital is At full capacity with 16 covid patients . They are @ 100% capacity with 5 of the 16 people in ICU. Now they need to cancel more surgeries because 16 people are in the hospital the average age is 61 they Said.

Wow



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I was told or read somewhere that Canadian ICUs need to be about 90% full at all times to be "economically feasable" . This is why ICUs are always saying they are at the breaking point when they get just a few extra patients. If you read past headlines from 2013,2015 or whenever there were always headlines about hospitals being about to overflow with flu season in full swing. It aint something new.
John

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Your chart sucks... it only shows data from end Dec 2020 to Mar 2021..only 3 months..vaccination effectivity is still too new.

This chart shows what happed after June...6 months after the vaccination started

https://www.google.com/search?q=isra...hrome&ie=UTF-8

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Sorry, didn't realize it, just tried to find something on google to verify the basis. That chart you post is better.
But here's the question I have ... if that current wave was in an Israel with ZERO vaccination rate, and same movement of people (same restrictions as was in Aug) ... what would the number be?
The same? Way more? Less? That is the million $$ question.

I could argue that because they were highly vaccinated, they just went back to normal, and the infection rate went up big time ... and of course the volume of infections doesn't matter anymore ... heck if the vaccine works, the infection rate should go to 50,000 or 100,000 per day. The only thing that counts is the rate of serious illness. If you change the graph you sent to show deaths ... you will see that current wave has less deaths than the 2nd wave.

So, there does appear to be a decrease in deaths relative to infection rate. The other thing is, do you think that is the real infection rate. How many are vaccinated, get COVID, and don't feel anything so don't go get the test? So isn't there a good chance the infection rate is 2x, 3x or 10x what they have been measuring ... if you don't have symptoms or very mild symptoms ... you'll probably ascribe it to seasonal allergies or a minor cold, and not even go get tested.

It's hard to draw any conclusions.