Debating 101

The Off-Topic section operates as a platform to debate. It's a flawed system, because we're not on podiums waiting to have our say. We're in separate rooms, in separate municipalities, all responding to separate posts. Naturally this is going to make things difficult. It is unreasonable to believe that every thread is going to follow the same stream of consciousness. It's going to get messy, it's going to get off topic, and that's the way of it. The section is called off-topic! It's bound to get off-topic, nay, encouraged to, by its very namesake.

I was reminded today of a college course I took called Critical Thinking. It was a foolish class, but I learned how to describe a hole in an argument:
http://thebestschools.org/magazine/1...allacies-know/

We will not address a post unless it is in direct violation of the forum guidelines, as seen here.
https://www.oodmag.com/community/sho...-Rules-Conduct

We appreciate everyone's efforts to keep the Forum organized, but if we're quibbling about what's on-topic and what's off-topic on an off-topic thread so much so that no one's enjoying themselves, well then what are we really doing?

The point is to express ourselves and perhaps find some relief through like-minded humans in a majorly isolating and oftentimes depressing period on our historical timeline. Can we start doing that again, please, and stop biting at each other like dogs fighting over a bone, fighting over the podium.

Happy Thanksgiving, folks.
Meghan

I’d hit a like button if there was one. Well said.

I think you better have a word the MOD (FFF) , he's recently decided not to let the threads go off-topic. Discuss Covid, even in context and you'll find your post banished to the 'Covid' area. :)

I fully agree with what you're saying and posted my thoughts earlier on another thread; "Where as, going off-topic usually causes the thread to go down the Rabbit hole and ends up who knows where but everyone has had a good time getting there...including the OP."

But we have a problem with Trolling. That needs to be addressed, it's against the rules, but is rarely enforced. The closure of a thread this morning was due to one poster posting his nonsense..otherwise, the other contributors were having a well-balanced discussion on Capitalism.

We've discussed the slipperiness of Off-Topic. finsfurfeathers is doing a great job and we're grateful to him. You always harsh on the mods Mike, what's up with that?

Hmmm...... based on what I see in the Supply Chain thread, the usual distractions but if you were getting complaints that warrant closing it then this seems relevant.

"The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it" - George Orwell

It is "Off topic" you have a choice to allow discussions, debates and even name calling (threats etc are unacceptable of course) or to act like the current threat to free speech/Human rights in Canada

Canadian government's proposed online harms legislation threatens our human rights
No other liberal democracy in the world has been willing to accept these restrictions
https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/opin...ghts-1.6198800


If someone wants to distract or change topics you have the choice to ignore them, or show where they are full of it and finish the post on topic or just let the thread go in that new direction, if there is more to add the topic in the title someone will bring it back.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MeghanOOD

We've discussed the slipperiness of Off-Topic. finsfurfeathers is doing a great job and we're grateful to him. You always harsh on the mods Mike, what's up with that?

---

So am I responded to you as the Admin...or as a member of the forum. ??

Seems like a question that an ADMIN should ask someone in a PM ? :)

I've never said a 'harsh' word about a MOD. There are times, when a MOD (also an active member on the forum, ie. one of us) can be held accountable for what he posts like everyone else. Never used a 'harsh' word there either.

Yes I did question him, in his role as a Mod, with the debacle he instigated trying to clean up a thread started JoePa on Rabies Vaccine (which looks like it has been deleted) . But it was done politely, with a little sarcasm, but not offensive..I even included a Smiley Face emoji ..like this :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

So am I responded to you as the Admin...or as a member of the forum. ??

Seems like a question that an ADMIN should ask someone in a PM ? :)

I've never said a 'harsh' word about a MOD. There are times, when a MOD (also an active member on the forum, ie. one of us) can be held accountable for what he posts like everyone else. Never used a 'harsh' word there either.

Yes I did question him, in his role as a Mod, with the debacle he instigated trying to clean up a thread started JoePa on Rabies Vaccine (which looks like it has been deleted) . But it was done politely, with a little sarcasm, but not offensive..I even included a Smiley Face emoji ..like this :)

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Its still there Mike if you wish to look a little closer https://www.oodmag.com/community/sho...u-Get-the-Shot :)
or if you wish to discuss covid try
https://www.oodmag.com/community/sho...Covid-vaccines :)
Everyone's happy now.
And you're right not the place to discuss would be the Mod forum your welcome to join me there

Until OOD come to grips with paid influencers there will be clashes.
One would be naive not to think that they lurk here and on many other forums.

Fortunately, they are easy to pick out of the woods. Hunting instinct you know...lol

https://torontosun.com/opinion/colum...n-social-media

Quote:

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Originally Posted by impact

Until OOD come to grips with paid influencers there will be clashes.
One would be naive not to think that they lurk here and on many other forums.

Fortunately, they are easy to pick out of the woods. Hunting instinct you know...lol

https://torontosun.com/opinion/colum...n-social-media

---

That is a very good observation and I believe there might be paid influencers on this forum. They are easy to spot because their whole day seems to revolve around posting on Off Topic and Political Posts, far and beyond a mere party solo voter. Or they have an inordinate number of posts all on controversial topics posted to get a rise out of the members.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

That is a very good observation and I believe there might be paid influencers on this forum. They are easy to spot because their whole day seems to revolve around posting on Off Topic and Political Posts, far and beyond a mere party solo voter. Or they have an inordinate number of posts all on controversial topics posted to get a rise out of the members.

---

Me -"Ohhh BTW, welcome back. They allowed you to renew your contract?...lol"

Gilroy - "Of course they renewed my contract we WON THE ELECTION did you really think they would let me go, I've been assigned to this forum exclusively for the next 4 years, I feel bad about taking the cash, but what's a billion here or there. LOL"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by impact

Me -"Ohhh BTW, welcome back. They allowed you to renew your contract?...lol"

Gilroy - "Of course they renewed my contract we WON THE ELECTION did you really think they would let me go, I've been assigned to this forum exclusively for the next 4 years, I feel bad about taking the cash, but what's a billion here or there. LOL"

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But the problem is they said there was a cheque in the mail and I haven't got it yet. LOL

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

But the problem is they said there was a cheque in the mail and I haven't got it yet. LOL

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You had better check they are still keeping you.... after all the Liberal's got over 450,000 less votes than 2 years ago and still less votes than the Conservatives.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MeghanOOD

We've discussed the slipperiness of Off-Topic. finsfurfeathers is doing a great job and we're grateful to him. You always harsh on the mods Mike, what's up with that?

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Ok.

Go have a read through the "housekeeping" thread started by me that wasn't. Also have a look at the original thread in its unedited form before your mod started splitting, editing and moving things to keep it "on topic", if that's even possible now.

Note that I requested multiple times to have the OP changed, as I didn't create the thread. I was basically warned to shut up. If you want to get technical about it, the first poster who mentioned "covid" had their post deleted. It wasn't me. Another poster mentioned the thread being in my name and was given a polite explanation. I was never given any explanation other than "follow the rules" that I didn't break.

You have a mod who is making his current administrative decisions based on his history with people here and context he disagrees with.

You can look at my history here, this is my first clash with a mod.

Everyone makes mistakes or has a bad day, but come back and tell me again he's "doing a great job", I'll happily find somewhere else to go.

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk

The COVID-19 sub-thread is a new venture, and there's bound to be troubleshooting when figuring out what's best moving forward. Let's not assume that the Forum is a static thing incapable of change and growth. We're dealing with this pandemic thing and it's impacting our lives every day, and it's tiring. So we created a COVID subthread to help alleviate that constant barrage. It was created with good intentions, and now it's all this.

Of course, if a mod or admin is addressed in a public thread, that address will be responded to in said thread.

[/QUOTE]If someone wants to distract or change topics you have the choice to ignore them, or show where they are full of it and finish the post on topic or just let the thread go in that new direction, if there is more to add the topic in the title someone will bring it back.[/QUOTE]

^^This is exactly so, Mosquito.

We have had discussions about policing the Forum. Griping about someone else changing topics or drawing a parallel that someone else doesn't like, and asking us to delete these, is policing. Please follow the Forum guidelines, and be kinder to one another. We're all guilty of crossing the line now and then, but we're adults, and this is our Forum, so let's make it better.

The "blah said this about Conservatives," and "but blah said this about Liberals" tautological finger-pointing is pretty puerile. You're all worth more than the parties you've voted for; don't distill yourselves to be mere shadows of political viewpoints.

I don't know about paid influencers, but we're all welcome to talk about it. Aside from the odd spam account that slips through the screening process, I believe we're all here recreationally, with the exception of OOD staff (like myself).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GW11

Ok.

Go have a read through the "housekeeping" thread started by me that wasn't. Also have a look at the original thread in its unedited form before your mod started splitting, editing and moving things to keep it "on topic", if that's even possible now.

Note that I requested multiple times to have the OP changed, as I didn't create the thread. I was basically warned to shut up. If you want to get technical about it, the first poster who mentioned "covid" had their post deleted. It wasn't me. Another poster mentioned the thread being in my name and was given a polite explanation. I was never given any explanation other than "follow the rules" that I didn't break.

You have a mod who is making his current administrative decisions based on his history with people here and context he disagrees with.

You can look at my history here, this is my first clash with a mod.

Everyone makes mistakes or has a bad day, but come back and tell me again he's "doing a great job", I'll happily find somewhere else to go.

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk

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I'm not sure about this housekeeping thread, GW11, but if you want to flag it/report it, we'll happily readdress it. Like I said, there's a learning curve to everything on the Forum, and we're all here as voluntary community members.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MeghanOOD

I'm not sure about this housekeeping thread, GW11, but if you want to flag it/report it, we'll happily readdress it. Like I said, there's a learning curve to everything on the Forum, and we're all here as voluntary community members.

---

Off topic section, thread titled "Started by MOD to cleanup derailed thread".

Shows me as the OP.

I don't know how to flag or report posts.

Edit: Tapatalk is difficult when it comes to attempting to copy and paste a thread as well.

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GW11

Off topic section, thread titled "Started by MOD to cleanup derailed thread".

Shows me as the OP.

I don't know how to flag or report posts.

Edit: Tapatalk is difficult when it comes to attempting to copy and paste a thread as well.

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk

---

GW11,
I realize you're using Tapatalk and the interface may be different, but there ought to be a wee flag underneath a member's name that will allow you to report a post if necessary, for future.

How would you like the thread addressed? We will not be editing comments in future, and there will be an acceptable amount of wiggleroom for the off topic-ness of off-topic threads. We're learning here, and we hear your concerns. How would you like the thread to be treated?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MeghanOOD

GW11,
I realize you're using Tapatalk and the interface may be different, but there ought to be a wee flag underneath a member's name that will allow you to report a post if necessary, for future.

How would you like the thread addressed? We will not be editing comments in future, and there will be an acceptable amount of wiggleroom for the off topic-ness of off-topic threads. We're learning here, and we hear your concerns. How would you like the thread to be treated?

---

There doesn't appear to be a flag near member's names on Tapatalk. If I was compelled to flag a post or report someone I suppose I could log in from the laptop and do so. Tapatalk has some downsides but overall it's pretty friendly to use with a phone.

I would like what I originally asked for in that thread. Reflect the mod as the OP. If this truly can't be done I'd appreciate your confirmation and I'll leave it as is. Going forward, address biased approaches with the mods with them personally and privately (thanking you in advance for this) so even more long standing members don't get fed up and go elsewhere. Fair is fair, and it begins with those charged with keeping things in line on the forum.


Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk

For me, the little flag is at the bottom left, just above the "reply to thread" tab.
John

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MeghanOOD

GW11,
I realize you're using Tapatalk and the interface may be different, but there ought to be a wee flag underneath a member's name that will allow you to report a post if necessary, for future.

How would you like the thread addressed? We will not be editing comments in future, and there will be an acceptable amount of wiggleroom for the off topic-ness of off-topic threads. We're learning here, and we hear your concerns. How would you like the thread to be treated?

---

GW11,
If you prefer, we can delete your initial comment so the thread reflects it was started by a Moderator. Is this what you'd like to do, or would you prefer to leave it as is?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MeghanOOD

We've discussed the slipperiness of Off-Topic. finsfurfeathers is doing a great job and we're grateful to him. You always harsh on the mods Mike, what's up with that?

---

Mike's harsh with anyone who doesn't agree with his version of the story. Don't take it personal.

I tried to in one thread simply share a perspective ... posted some supporting information ... apparently I was fear mongering, and didn't understand a single thing about the thread.
I really felt like I was back in elementary school, with the conversation degrading to "whatever" and "that's not what I said" ... "that's ridiculous" ... Just hot air statements that add no
value other than to try and belittle or pi$$ off the other individual (I'm imagining the motive is to simply feed one's ego ... make them feel like they're some kind of king on the hill of a thread in the Off-Topic Section on a Blog in some corner of the internet ... like they should get a big shiny golden star for that!).

So, I think one thing that needs to change is that if someone doesn't agree with a perspective ... so WHAT? Argue your perspective with facts ... not name slandering, and inferring people
are idiots ... I can with 100% certainty say, I was trying to remain unbias, share some data, and perspective ... and two other individuals just went into a child-like state to try and shut me down!
That is where I lose all respect ... and it's no longer a constructive debate.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by impact

Until OOD come to grips with paid influencers there will be clashes.
One would be naive not to think that they lurk here and on many other forums.

Fortunately, they are easy to pick out of the woods. Hunting instinct you know...lol

https://torontosun.com/opinion/colum...n-social-media

---

impact ... sorry, everything is a conspiracy to you. This is also an issue ... if someone disagrees with your view ... it's like automatic (they are the enemy and a conspirer).
Well, I'm here to tell you you are incorrect about that. There's a band of people in the middle ... who want to know the truth just as much as you, but don't automatically go
to the world is being run by the devil and everyone is out to get you ... we have our own experiences and data, and are simply conveying that with NO OTHER MOTIVE at all!
So, please stop assuming we are all here to get you, and sheep ... you are wrong on certain things ... it's part of learning and growing ... no one in this world has everything right.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MeghanOOD

GW11,
If you prefer, we can delete your initial comment so the thread reflects it was started by a Moderator. Is this what you'd like to do, or would you prefer to leave it as is?

---

If you delete the first two comments and leave the quoted messages in the first comment by the moderator that would be great, thank you! If not, then leave it as is, I feel quite strongly about consistency of enforcement.

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GW11

If you delete the first two comments and leave the quoted messages in the first comment by the moderator that would be great, thank you! If not, then leave it as is, I feel quite strongly about consistency of enforcement.

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk

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Sounds good, GW11. Will do.

**Update**
The first post cannot be deleted without deleting the entire thread.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MeghanOOD

Sounds good, GW11. Will do.

**Update**
The first post cannot be deleted without deleting the entire thread.

---

Just edit it then be an explanation of why it's was set-up in the first place... as a cautionary note :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Just edit it then be an explanation of why it's was set-up in the first place... as a cautionary note :)

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GW11,
Would you prefer this?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MeghanOOD

GW11,
Would you prefer this?

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Sure, thank you for trying Meghan. I left a suggestion in the OOD feedback forum for a new process going forward as well.

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MarkB

impact ... sorry, everything is a conspiracy to you. This is also an issue ... if someone disagrees with your view ... it's like automatic (they are the enemy and a conspirer).
Well, I'm here to tell you you are incorrect about that. There's a band of people in the middle ... who want to know the truth just as much as you, but don't automatically go
to the world is being run by the devil and everyone is out to get you ... we have our own experiences and data, and are simply conveying that with NO OTHER MOTIVE at all!
So, please stop assuming we are all here to get you, and sheep ... you are wrong on certain things ... it's part of learning and growing ... no one in this world has everything right.

---

Well, I'm here to tell you I really don't care what you think of me......move on with your life.....lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

I think you better have a word the MOD (FFF) , he's recently decided not to let the threads go off-topic. Discuss Covid, even in context and you'll find your post banished to the 'Covid' area. :)

I fully agree with what you're saying and posted my thoughts earlier on another thread; "Where as, going off-topic usually causes the thread to go down the Rabbit hole and ends up who knows where but everyone has had a good time getting there...including the OP."

But we have a problem with Trolling. That needs to be addressed, it's against the rules, but is rarely enforced. The closure of a thread this morning was due to one poster posting his nonsense..otherwise, the other contributors were having a well-balanced discussion on Capitalism.

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If one disagrees with the echo chamber here they are immediately labeled as trolls or paid influencers. It then descends in to the usual bun fight. None of that is going to change.

Thick skin is mandatory here. Just the way it is. The accusatory tones and name calling does nothing constructive. But most on here see the repetitive nature of the few and should know what they are getting themselves into once they respond to a post.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by impact

Well, I'm here to tell you I really don't care what you think of me......move on with your life.....lol

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Well actually I was looking for some comment on you in respects to whether you really think things are so black and white (as in you're either a bad guy or a good guy on your side). Do you see a spectrum in the middle ... people who are smart and trying to find the truth, and trying to do the right thing, and dealing with a lot, but doing their best ... not sheep, not idiots, not conspirers, not commies ... just people that have different opinions than you ... and perhaps they're right?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MarkB

Well actually I was looking for some comment on you in respects to whether you really think things are so black and white (as in you're either a bad guy or a good guy on your side). Do you see a spectrum in the middle ... people who are smart and trying to find the truth, and trying to do the right thing, and dealing with a lot, but doing their best ... not sheep, not idiots, not conspirers, not commies ... just people that have different opinions than you ... and perhaps they're right?

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Why are you trolling me?
What is your purpose for doing so?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by impact

Why are you trolling me?
What is your purpose for doing so?

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I think he's looking for a new playmate, I fired him for not playing nice.. HaHa.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

I think he's looking for a new playmate, I fired him for not playing nice.. HaHa.

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Oh! Ok…lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MarkB

Mike's harsh with anyone who doesn't agree with his version of the story. Don't take it personal.

I tried to in one thread simply share a perspective ... posted some supporting information ... apparently I was fear mongering, and didn't understand a single thing about the thread.
I really felt like I was back in elementary school, with the conversation degrading to "whatever" and "that's not what I said" ... "that's ridiculous" ... Just hot air statements that add no
value other than to try and belittle or pi$$ off the other individual (I'm imagining the motive is to simply feed one's ego ... make them feel like they're some kind of king on the hill of a thread in the Off-Topic Section on a Blog in some corner of the internet ... like they should get a big shiny golden star for that!).

So, I think one thing that needs to change is that if someone doesn't agree with a perspective ... so WHAT? Argue your perspective with facts ... not name slandering, and inferring people
are idiots ... I can with 100% certainty say, I was trying to remain unbias, share some data, and perspective ... and two other individuals just went into a child-like state to try and shut me down!
That is where I lose all respect ... and it's no longer a constructive debate.

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When one can’t make their argument with out vilifying, name calling, or insults, then they’ve already lost the argument.