Bad load?

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October 16th, 2021, 05:48 PM
Deer Hunter

3 Attachment(s)

Bad load?

I opened a new box of Challengers today and went Grouse hunting.
I shot and missed a few easy shots and wounded one. I also shot off the head completely on a couple I managed to get.
Blast seem louder then normal.
Not wanting to wound anymore I went back to the camp.
I put up a target at 5 yd then at 10 yd this is what it looks like.
I never patterned my grouse gun before but I’m sure it wasn’t a single hole.
I think it should spread out more then that.
It seem to shoot slightly higher also.
I shot these for a very long time and always did good with them.
Anyways I will go with the .410 tomorrow, I don’t want to wound any more birds.
Any experience on this?
Attachment 42370
Attachment 42371
Attachment 42372
October 16th, 2021, 06:23 PM
dean.f

Wow. What choke is that pattern from?

I've never patterned closer than 20 yds.
October 16th, 2021, 08:42 PM
oaknut

5 and 10 yards are going to keep things real tight . Cylinder should give you a 16" spread and a full will lend a mere 6 inches at 10 yards given the shot and wad separate.

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October 16th, 2021, 09:32 PM
tom gobble

Just wondering, why are you pattering so close. I think at 5 yards regardless of choke will be tight.
October 17th, 2021, 03:09 AM
MikePal

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom gobble

Just wondering, why are you pattering so close. I think at 5 yards regardless of choke will be tight.

Primarily why a lot of guys miss Turkeys in close. That is a common spread for almost all shotguns under 10 yards, Baseball size holes.
October 17th, 2021, 04:38 AM
Deer Hunter

Quote:

Originally Posted by dean.f

Wow. What choke is that pattern from?

I've never patterned closer than 20 yds.

It’s the same shotgun and choke I’ve been using for the last 20 years. I checked and choke was still there and tight. Nothing changed except maybe the shells.
October 17th, 2021, 04:47 AM
Deer Hunter

Quote:

Originally Posted by oaknut

5 and 10 yards are going to keep things real tight . Cylinder should give you a 16" spread and a full will lend a mere 6 inches at 10 yards given the shot and wad separate.

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Yes that’s what I would of expected at 10 yard but it seem tighter than that.
October 17th, 2021, 04:50 AM
Deer Hunter

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom gobble

Just wondering, why are you pattering so close. I think at 5 yards regardless of choke will be tight.

I wasn’t sure how far to pattern but most shots I take on grouse around here is in that 5 to 15 yard range. The grouse I missed yesterday where in the 5 to 10 yard range.
October 17th, 2021, 04:56 AM
Deer Hunter

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikePal

Primarily why a lot of guys miss Turkeys in close. That is a common spread for almost all shotguns under 10 yards, Baseball size holes.

Yes. I missed a few Turkeys up close because of that.

Like I mentioned earlier I used this shotgun for grouse for many years and nothing changed except possibly the shells.
October 17th, 2021, 05:01 AM
Deer Hunter

Thanks everyone.

I’m thinking maybe the last bunch of box I bought were different then what I used before.
I burned the cardboard box but have a few more boxes at home and will check.

Missing and wounding one once in a while is one thing but what was happening yesterday wasn’t normal for me.
So in the meantime I will use my .410.
Again thanks.
October 17th, 2021, 06:26 AM
dean.f

I just looked and those are the same shells I have, if I get a chance I'll see what they look like out of my gun.

Good luck the rest of the hunt.
October 17th, 2021, 07:26 AM
hollywood

i would cut open a shell....to see the shot and the wad. I have seen steel shot fuse (rust) into a single mass....turning a shotshell into a slug.
October 17th, 2021, 07:54 AM
Fisherman

I would try a target at 20 yds to see if they spread, 10 seems to be much too close to get an accurate idea.
October 17th, 2021, 09:35 AM
fishhawk

About what I would expect from those ranges. What choke was that out of?
October 17th, 2021, 11:18 AM
Deer Hunter

Quote:

Originally Posted by dean.f

I just looked and those are the same shells I have, if I get a chance I'll see what they look like out of my gun.

Good luck the rest of the hunt.

Well it’s not the old man. lol
Went with the .410 shot 5 with 5 shots.
October 17th, 2021, 11:19 AM
Deer Hunter

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywood

i would cut open a shell....to see the shot and the wad. I have seen steel shot fuse (rust) into a single mass....turning a shotshell into a slug.

I will do that. You never know.
October 17th, 2021, 11:22 AM
Deer Hunter

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fisherman

I would try a target at 20 yds to see if they spread, 10 seems to be much too close to get an accurate idea.

I’m starting to think I didn’t notice and bought same brand but different loads or something wrong like Hollywood mentioned. Will check when I get back.
October 17th, 2021, 11:28 AM
Deer Hunter

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishhawk

About what I would expect from those ranges. What choke was that out of?

Never had any misses like that in the last 20 years ? that I used that shotgun and shot shell. It’s a Rem model 870 express with factory choke. Pretty sure it’s the Rem modified.
It’s either something wrong with the load or the last batch I bought was same brand but different load?
October 17th, 2021, 03:56 PM
Deer Hunter

1 Attachment(s)

I opened one up and it’s all good.
My old stock says Target Load high velocity and the new ones say only high velocity. Lot # is different.
I only have one box of the old stock left so will bring that next weekend and pattern to see if different.
Thanks. Attachment 42388
October 17th, 2021, 04:24 PM
dean.f

My last box has the same lot number as your old stock, oddly enough.
October 17th, 2021, 07:06 PM
fishhawk

If a wider pattern is what you’re after I would look at getting a more open choke like cylinder or improved cylinder. Otherwise aim accordingly.
December 23rd, 2021, 09:35 AM
Ugo

Deerhunter, I am not understanding? I see no reason to pattern a shotgun load at 5-10 yards, unless you're checking the action. The patterns you shared are perfectly normal at those ranges. I DO notice they are both left!?! That is an issue of no small magnitude but it has nothing to do with your shells. If you are hitting with a .410 and missing with a 20 gauge, logic says, "Something else is going on". While I have gone through similar situations, the end result has rarely been shell consistency. I'm not saying it CAN'T be. I'm saying, you might look at more likely contributors.
I'd start by having someone check the gun fit of your 20 gauge. I'm guessing it doesn't fit....at all. When you miss to the left as much as you displayed at just 5 yards (!?!?!?!), you going to be WAY off at a "normal" effective distance!
As others have suggested, I do recommend you use more open choke(s) for woodcock, if you have that option. Sounds like your Remington has a fixed choke though - and that too should work. (I prefer fixed chokes but I digress...) Realistically, woodcock are not hard to drop.
Depending on how far you live from me, I can check the fit - no charge.
I have found that whether hunting woodcock or a wide range of other wild bird species, the greatest contributor to misses are:
- poor gun fit,
- poor shooting form, *which often includes shooting too soon,
- improper shot-shells (ie. my early season grouse shells and my late season grouse shells are not the same).
- a new shotgun (diverse fit/psychological hurdle).
Let me know if I can be of service Deerhunter.
December 23rd, 2021, 04:56 PM
Deer Hunter

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugo

Deerhunter, I am not understanding? I see no reason to pattern a shotgun load at 5-10 yards, unless you're checking the action. The patterns you shared are perfectly normal at those ranges. I DO notice they are both left!?! That is an issue of no small magnitude but it has nothing to do with your shells. If you are hitting with a .410 and missing with a 20 gauge, logic says, "Something else is going on". While I have gone through similar situations, the end result has rarely been shell consistency. I'm not saying it CAN'T be. I'm saying, you might look at more likely contributors.
I'd start by having someone check the gun fit of your 20 gauge. I'm guessing it doesn't fit....at all. When you miss to the left as much as you displayed at just 5 yards (!?!?!?!), you going to be WAY off at a "normal" effective distance!
As others have suggested, I do recommend you use more open choke(s) for woodcock, if you have that option. Sounds like your Remington has a fixed choke though - and that too should work. (I prefer fixed chokes but I digress...) Realistically, woodcock are not hard to drop.
Depending on how far you live from me, I can check the fit - no charge.
I have found that whether hunting woodcock or a wide range of other wild bird species, the greatest contributor to misses are:
- poor gun fit,
- poor shooting form, *which often includes shooting too soon,
- improper shot-shells (ie. my early season grouse shells and my late season grouse shells are not the same).
- a new shotgun (diverse fit/psychological hurdle).
Let me know if I can be of service Deerhunter.

Forgot about this thread.
I was suppose to pattern the other shells but never got around to that.
Like I mentioned I had this shotgun for over 20 years and never had no problems before.
I bought different shot shells and finished the year with my O/U and had a great season. I have lots of other shotguns to use so didn’t lose no sleep over it. Just didn’t want to wound/ miss more birds for no reason. Will look into it next summer.
I appreciate the help Ugo and would take you up on your offer if you were closer.
Even after hunting Grouse for over 50 years I don’t have a problem meeting good people and learning new things. :thumbup:
December 23rd, 2021, 06:46 PM
roffey

I always blame the shells when I miss :wink:
All kidding aside my group won’t use certain duck and goose load
I do believe the shells and chokes make a difference

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