A sad farewell to Ruffed Grouse?

I'd like to here from others regarding the population status of Ruffed Grouse based on what you're seeing in the area that you live and/or hunt. You don't see much comment being made by mnr regarding the total crash in areas of the province.I'm pretty sure WNV is the culprit. I live in WMU 75 and I mainly hunt the southern ends of 60. Numbers have been declining over the past 15 to 20 years but now it's dropped to almost total exterpation. There are so few birds now where I live I feel the species should be considered for SARA listing. Next to zero drumming males now in the spring. There is no longer a huntable population. There are so few birds I think I'd feel guilty harvesting the bird if I did find one. You can walk for hours, focussing on good habitat, with a good dog, and you'd be lucky to flush a single bird. I'm not even seeing budding birds when driving hundreds of kilometers around home. How are things in your area?

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Originally Posted by Fenelon

I'd like to here from others regarding the population status of Ruffed Grouse based on what you're seeing in the area that you live and/or hunt. You don't see much comment being made by mnr regarding the total crash in areas of the province.I'm pretty sure WNV is the culprit. I live in WMU 75 and I mainly hunt the southern ends of 60. Numbers have been declining over the past 15 to 20 years but now it's dropped to almost total exterpation. There are so few birds now where I live I feel the species should be considered for SARA listing. Next to zero drumming males now in the spring. There is no longer a huntable population. There are so few birds I think I'd feel guilty harvesting the bird if I did find one. You can walk for hours, focussing on good habitat, with a good dog, and you'd be lucky to flush a single bird. I'm not even seeing budding birds when driving hundreds of kilometers around home. How are things in your area?

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Beyond bad. And I've done quite a bit of cutting to create good grouse habitat. Lots of thick conifer cover, oaks, overgrown farm - hawthorne, wild grapes, while clover.
The hawks and owls have been hard on them, but this year there are even less than the normal - even for a poor year.

This is in 55B - near Pembroke.

I’ve been out plenty this year and have noticed good numbers everywhere I’ve tried. Numbers were good north of the French river. I was out in 60 well before deer rifle and found good numbers. Although I’ve been out after rifle and only flushed one. I haven’t noticed any drop.

I hunt to the West of you and I seen some. Though by their behaviour I'd say they were all older adult birds. Something has been effecting nesting success that's for sure.

In my area of WMU 60 basically Wollaston Township numbers are extremely low, this trend has been going on for about 3 years but appears to be getting worse. The Spring weather should have been good for the chicks to survive as it has been drier. I think I put up less than 6 birds all two weeks of the deer hunt. Sitting on a several deer stands in good habitat for 6 hours a day most all two weeks did not see a bird. In the past I always had them around the open field cabin area, I saw them off my deer feeders using corn in the past but nothing this past few years. I get the usual hawks an owls and coyotes but they have always been there. The properties around me have been logged to the west east and south, I wonder if this has had an adverse affect taking away some canopy cover. But something is wrong, I feel the same, would not harvest a bird anytime soon.

I have never seen so many grouse in SW Ontario, they were coming out during many of our drives during the controlled hunt in 86A.

Currently I hunt in 64A and 63A. There is a fair number in 64A - I haven't noticed a significant change over the last 10 years or so. In the spring during turkey season I hear them drumming regularly.
I'm new to hunting in 63A. I've only been out specifically targeting grouse 2 or 3 times, and never with a bird dog. When I've been in good grouse habitat, I was able to find some birds, but the numbers don't seem to be as good as in 64A.

There are still grouse on our bush lot in south Wellington county but not nearly in the same numbers as when we moved here over 20 years ago. I stopped hunting them 15 years ago because numbers were so low. I still see the occasional flush and heard drumming this past spring and fall.

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Originally Posted by rf2

Currently I hunt in 64A and 63A. There is a fair number in 64A - I haven't noticed a significant change over the last 10 years or so. In the spring during turkey season I hear them drumming regularly.
I'm new to hunting in 63A. I've only been out specifically targeting grouse 2 or 3 times, and never with a bird dog. When I've been in good grouse habitat, I was able to find some birds, but the numbers don't seem to be as good as in 64A.

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Totally type of habitat, I used to hike miles and get a couple birds, but that is because I did not have a dog, the numbers were not bad at all, just too many places for them to hide out.

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

There are still grouse on our bush lot in south Wellington county but not nearly in the same numbers as when we moved here over 20 years ago. I stopped hunting them 15 years ago because numbers were so low. I still see the occasional flush and heard drumming this past spring and fall.

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I'm just North of you in 82a. The numbers were lower several years back. I'm starting to see more birds but as somebody said they're all mature birds. I'm wondering if WEst Nile reduced the numbers significantly and what were are seeing now is the repopulation with disease resistant birds. I stopped hunting them 7 years ago because I was concerned about their low numbers.

Believe it or not, there's decent numbers in 78 from what I've seen or heard drumming in the spring. I don't typically hunt this WMU as I don't have access but the birds are around.

Iv've kept a hunting journal since I was kid. I dug them out and the last "good" days of grouse numbers in my area was about 1997. A three hour hunt would usually yield 4 to 7 flushes without a dog. It would be 10 to 12 if the Lab came along. Then the downward spiral began and it wasn't due to habitat loss or change, or hunting pressure, or poor nesting conditions. I dont think predation is the key factor causing decline either. There's lots of strong evidence pointing the finger at WNV, but I'm wondering if neonic pesticide use is also part of the problem. Take look at what neonics have done since their approval for use. We've lost most of our insect pollinators. Some species of beneficial wasps and bees have massive population collapse. Some native species of bumblebees are now gone. We lost all of our bats to white nose syndrome in the blink of an eye. Again, they're blaming neonics for endocrine disruption, global extinction and massive population declines in essentially every aerial insectivorous bird species due to insect biomass reduction (every one of our eight swallow and swift species, goat-suckers (knight-hawk, whip-poor will. 80% decline in some species in less than a decade!).

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Originally Posted by Fenelon

Iv've kept a hunting journal since I was kid. I dug them out and the last "good" days of grouse numbers in my area was about 1997. A three hour hunt would usually yield 4 to 7 flushes without a dog. It would be 10 to 12 if the Lab came along. Then the downward spiral began and it wasn't due to habitat loss or change, or hunting pressure, or poor nesting conditions. I dont think predation is the key factor causing decline either. There's lots of strong evidence pointing the finger at WNV, but I'm wondering if neonic pesticide use is also part of the problem. Take look at what neonics have done since their approval for use. We've lost most of our insect pollinators. Some species of beneficial wasps and bees have massive population collapse. Some native species of bumblebees are now gone. We lost all of our bats to white nose syndrome in the blink of an eye. Again, they're blaming neonics for endocrine disruption, global extinction and massive population declines in essentially every aerial insectivorous bird species due to insect biomass reduction (every one of our eight swallow and swift species, goat-suckers (knight-hawk, whip-poor will. 80% decline in some species in less than a decade!).

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Did neonics appear aroung 1997? Just curious. I have a bee keeper contact that swears the neonics were going to put him out of business.

The last few years I see fewer birds in 61. There still around, just not seeing as many on the ground poking around.

I'm in 65 and trap through the winter running a few short lines and have seen a slight increase of birds in the past years but the numbers are still quite low. A few friends that have lived here longer than me don't even bother hunting grouse anymore. My brother lives in 39 just west of Sudbury and he's never seen so many on his property. In early November, I was in Dryden and took this picture with 5 grouse in a tree.
Attachment 42854

55A, definitely a decline in the last few years however, the property I just lucked in to is absolutely ripe with them. Haven't taken a single one this year given the time constraints but I see them every day in there.

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I've been hunting 56 for the past 6 years as I now have a cottage there. In the spring, I usually see the odd one here and there but come the fall when its time to hunt them they are gone. Not sure if they move to different cover or if predators get them during the summer but at this point I don't really target them in 56.

Great numbers in North East Ontario this year.
That’s what we had for dinner tonight. Mmmmmm

depends where you are and where you live. i flushed 8 on my walk to my sitting spot for coyotes. should have just brought the shotgun.
in sudbury a few years back there were lots. buddy came down for the deer hunt and gave me a bunch.

i wonder in some areas if its habitat loss and growing numbers of other critters.

At our camp in 82a not as many as 10 years ago but if I tromp around for 3 or 4 hours I will flush 6 to 8.

This year in area 39 & 41 just north of Sudbury was an exceptional year three of us harvested 82 birds mix Ruffed ,Spruce but we saw a total of 152 birds.

Canada started using neonics in the mid 90's, which coincides with the downward cascade of numerous animal populations. This group of chemicals is as nasty as pcbs and DDT from years gone by. Residuals of up to 30 years
Potent endocrine disruptor that affects neuronal development, trashes the immune system, etc. Now it's in our wetlands, soils, and our water. Our aquatic inverts are now getting affected. They are now being linked to the rana virus that's threatening all of our amphibians. There's neonics in everything we eat and we do not know what effects this is having on us. Canada was slated to ban the use of two major neonics in 2018. They caved to industry pressure and were still using them today.........time bomb!

Pretty nasty stuff. Neonics are commonly used in
Dog and cat flea meds eg. ADVANTAGE II, K9 PRAVENTA, ETC. When your pet urinates outside they contaminate the property with neonics. Enough to wipe out all the bees within a hectare of your house. Eg. Bees lap up the morning dew off contaminated grass blades and it's enough to kill them. Best part is the 2-3 year soil residual

Numbers are high in the Kirkland Lake area, Although the birds are bigger this year. I am willing to bet, that is because of the dry spring, and that it was wet in the second half of the summer. I think they had a great first hatch, and then nothing after that.

MC

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Canada started using neonics in the mid 90's, which coincides with the downward cascade of numerous animal populations. This group of chemicals is as nasty as pcbs and DDT from years gone by. Residuals of up to 30 years
Potent endocrine disruptor that affects neuronal development, trashes the immune system, etc. Now it's in our wetlands, soils, and our water. Our aquatic inverts are now getting affected. They are now being linked to the rana virus that's threatening all of our amphibians. There's neonics in everything we eat and we do not know what effects this is having on us. Canada was slated to ban the use of two major neonics in 2018. They caved to industry pressure and were still using them today.........time bomb!

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Very interesting, I wonder if there is a connection of this Agra chemical and the crash of the European hare population in Ontario. I always suspected that there might be a chemical being applied to crops that was effecting the jacks populations. The Hare's spend live mostly in the agricultural fields or the cover adjacent to the crops, basically what ever is getting on the crops was getting on the Jacks. My theory was the chemical is harming the reproduction cycle of the hares or maybe outright killing the young. We had good success hunting the hares right up to the late 90's. Then something changed and they now have practically gone except for the odd pocket of remaining animals.

That pic of budding birds used to be the norm here in the south back in the 80s and 90s. Used to be an easy way to get some dinners. Birds would bud late afternoon with ironwood and black cherry being the trees of choice. Best budding days were when the barometer was crashing and a big snow storm was coming. It would be nothing to see 20 to 30 budding birds during my 35km drive home from Lindsay. Now there is nothing. I'm glad to hear that areas north of me still have birds. There seems to be a link between agricultural landscape (areas primarily supporting cash cropping) and population crash. This is another hint to me that these neonics are part of the problem.

https://news.usask.ca/articles/resea...wild-birds.php

Re: neonics affecting Passerine birds in canada

Our camp is in wmu 60 and we had another year of abundant birds. Been that way for the past 5 years or so.

Even back home this past summer I saw more bees and monarch butterflies than I have in the past 6 or 7 years with more fruit on the trees and garden than the ever... Hard to put a handle on it with what you posted...

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Originally Posted by Fenelon

I'd like to here from others regarding the population status of Ruffed Grouse based on what you're seeing in the area that you live and/or hunt. You don't see much comment being made by mnr regarding the total crash in areas of the province.I'm pretty sure WNV is the culprit. I live in WMU 75 and I mainly hunt the southern ends of 60. Numbers have been declining over the past 15 to 20 years but now it's dropped to almost total exterpation. There are so few birds now where I live I feel the species should be considered for SARA listing. Next to zero drumming males now in the spring. There is no longer a huntable population. There are so few birds I think I'd feel guilty harvesting the bird if I did find one. You can walk for hours, focussing on good habitat, with a good dog, and you'd be lucky to flush a single bird. I'm not even seeing budding birds when driving hundreds of kilometers around home. How are things in your area?

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I've made plenty of hunting trips to WMUs 57, 55A, 40, 49, and 42, including this year. I see grouse every time I set foot in those woods. Even had some try to fight me lol unfortunately I NEVER see them when I actually hunt for them... They're surprisingly resilient in those areas considering it's chalk full of foxes, fishers, martens, Mink, and owls.

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Originally Posted by fishhawk

Very interesting, I wonder if there is a connection of this Agra chemical and the crash of the European hare population in Ontario. I always suspected that there might be a chemical being applied to crops that was effecting the jacks populations. The Hare's spend live mostly in the agricultural fields or the cover adjacent to the crops, basically what ever is getting on the crops was getting on the Jacks. My theory was the chemical is harming the reproduction cycle of the hares or maybe outright killing the young. We had good success hunting the hares right up to the late 90's. Then something changed and they now have practically gone except for the odd pocket of remaining animals.

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I think its a lot more to do with habitat loss. Used to be everyone had 100-200 acre farms and there was lots of fence lines/edges. Now they are all grouped together into 1000 acre lots and all get combined at once, and no edge territory that they need. When you add coyotes on top of no habitat, you lose populations very quickly.

Bo D are you in the northern bush landscape of 60, or the southern end that has lots of agricultural activity? The southern end of 60 is devoid of birds.

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Originally Posted by Fenelon

Bo D are you in the northern bush landscape of 60, or the southern end that has lots of agricultural activity? The southern end of 60 is devoid of birds.

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It seems very localized BoD is probably no more than 12 klms from my place, he says he is seeing good numbers and I am seeing very bad numbers.

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Originally Posted by FishHog

I think its a lot more to do with habitat loss. Used to be everyone had 100-200 acre farms and there was lots of fence lines/edges. Now they are all grouped together into 1000 acre lots and all get combined at once, and no edge territory that they need. When you add coyotes on top of no habitat, you lose populations very quickly.

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I agree with you when it comes to habitat loss for european hare and cottontail, but not for grouse in the areas I hunt. If anything, the habitat has improved due to selective logging in the closed hardwood stands. Secondary conifer understories are still intact and the new early successions growth has made these areas better for grouse. The birds are simply not there anymore.

The last few years I am seeing more birds every year in 72A, at least where I hunt. I have hunted these same woods for grouse for 50 years.
There are lots drumming in the spring too. Yet we are limited to 2 birds per day.

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Originally Posted by Fenelon

Bo D are you in the northern bush landscape of 60, or the southern end that has lots of agricultural activity? The southern end of 60 is devoid of birds.

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Our property is approximately 9 clicks north of Coe Hill Fenelon....

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Originally Posted by FishHog

I think its a lot more to do with habitat loss. Used to be everyone had 100-200 acre farms and there was lots of fence lines/edges. Now they are all grouped together into 1000 acre lots and all get combined at once, and no edge territory that they need. When you add coyotes on top of no habitat, you lose populations very quickly.

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bingo.

I know the Ruffed Grouse Society was asking hunters for reports on sightings or drumming heard during the Spring Turkey hunt. There has been the odd sighting near me here in 90B .

In 65 this year the areas I go I have seen more than in the past.
At Marlborough forest I have also seen more.

My best friend in Mackey Ontario has also seen great numbers this year around Bissett Creek

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Originally Posted by Fox

I have never seen so many grouse in SW Ontario, they were coming out during many of our drives during the controlled hunt in 86A.

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I am in 90 and grew up hunting grouse. But ever since the return of the wild turkey we have nit seen any in the area I hunt.

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Originally Posted by longpointer

I know the Ruffed Grouse Society was asking hunters for reports on sightings or drumming heard during the Spring Turkey hunt. There has been the odd sighting near me here in 90B .

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I hunt 90b and have not seen any in years. Once the turkeys returned the grouse numbers dropped fast. Not sure what the connection is but the numbers dropped fast

I'd love to see someone do their masters or Phd thesis paper on correlation between grouse decline and neonic useage /neonic bioaccumulation in the province. As a casual personal observation, the birds appear to be gone from all the wmus that are in ag country, esp. corn and soya cash crop regions that use neonic treated seed almost exclusively. The start of the decline times out perfectly with the initial date of approval and useage of thbese chemicals.

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Originally Posted by Fenelon

I'd love to see someone do their masters or Phd thesis paper on correlation between grouse decline and neonic useage /neonic bioaccumulation in the province. As a casual personal observation, the birds appear to be gone from all the wmus that are in ag country, esp. corn and soya cash crop regions that use neonic treated seed almost exclusively. The start of the decline times out perfectly with the initial date of approval and useage of thbese chemicals.

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Actually not sure if it’s the neonics or is it the air planter that is puffing it out

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Originally Posted by Fenelon

I'd love to see someone do their masters or Phd thesis paper on correlation between grouse decline and neonic useage /neonic bioaccumulation in the province. As a casual personal observation, the birds appear to be gone from all the wmus that are in ag country, esp. corn and soya cash crop regions that use neonic treated seed almost exclusively. The start of the decline times out perfectly with the initial date of approval and useage of thbese chemicals.

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I'm in 82a and have significant corn and beans in my area. Still decent #s at my place and although there are year over year variations I would not say any significant changes in the average over the last 10 or 15 years. A 2 hour walk this year without a dog and you will still flush half a dozen birds here.

Fenelon, that could be part of the problem,but wouldn't that same senerio pose a problem to ducks and geese in the same agricultural area as you mentioned. They would feed on the same corn...

In my home unit of 82a I’ve probably flushed 15 or so while walking to various deer stands. I would probably have seen more if I was hunting them. At our place in Sturgeon falls, we could shoot them right behind the house. Walking through the bush there are plenty of them!

On Dec 27th, I had 7 grouse eating buds in the tree outside my camp kitchen window. Nice to see those kind of numbers. Camp is in 72A btw.

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Originally Posted by Fenelon

I'd love to see someone do their masters or Phd thesis paper on correlation between grouse decline and neonic useage /neonic bioaccumulation in the province. As a casual personal observation, the birds appear to be gone from all the wmus that are in ag country, esp. corn and soya cash crop regions that use neonic treated seed almost exclusively. The start of the decline times out perfectly with the initial date of approval and useage of thbese chemicals.

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I don't think you need a study for that. They are missing from many areas many miles from ag areas.
I'll guess I've spent 40 hrs hiking the bush since the start of Dec and have flushed one grouse. 55B.

I've heard a similar theory that it's the wild turkeys destroying nest in areas where they overlap grouse. I can't buy that in that there are very few turkeys in the north part of 55B where the grouse have vanished as well.

The turkeys-harming-grouse theory has been long de-bunked.

However I have no doubt that other environmental factors as already mentioned in this thread are at play, and will vary regionally.

Grouse may be doing fine in some locals, but overall the North American trend is a downward one.

Very good numbers southern Ontario. I was a bit dissapointed in 79.

I am most definitely not saying a farewell to the ruffed grouse. This afternoon while walking a part of the the bush lot the dog and I don't normally visit during the summer the dog we flushed six all at once. I'm assuming one hen and some juvenile birds from the same nest. I'd heard lots of drumming earlier and this would appear to be the result.

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

I am most definitely not saying a farewell to the ruffed grouse. This afternoon while walking a part of the the bush lot the dog and I don't normally visit during the summer the dog we flushed six all at once. I'm assuming one hen and some juvenile birds from the same nest. I'd heard lots of drumming earlier and this would appear to be the result.

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With a report like that sept 25 can't come soon enough

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Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers

With a report like that sept 25 can't come soon enough

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I haven't hunted my bush lot in many years but this one may be an exception. I generally wait until well after the opener because the foliage is very dense. Mid-October is when I like to start.

well if you want to hunt them over a setter ........

Not to brag but I saw birds on every hunting trip last fall. It was one of the best seasons for me. The dog running through the thick stuff helped a lot as well. Many birds busted out of fence rows. But.... Over the many years of woodcock hunting the the gradual decline in bird numbers has been noted. habitat loss and wood lots not being clear cut does not help the situation. What gets me even more pissed are the false promises from OFAH and the MNR to clear cut crown properties to make room for new growth for small game in Ontario.

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Originally Posted by Frank16

Not to brag but I saw birds on every hunting trip last fall. It was one of the best seasons for me. The dog running through the thick stuff helped a lot as well. Many birds busted out of fence rows. But.... Over the many years of woodcock hunting the the gradual decline in bird numbers has been noted. habitat loss and wood lots not being clear cut does not help the situation. What gets me even more pissed are the false promises from OFAH and the MNR to clear cut crown properties to make room for new growth for small game in Ontario.

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Not just the MNR. Although there's been some 3 and forth cutting in Simcoe county forest which has opened them up the reforestation plan doesn't take small game into consideration. Talk to the forester what the plan was for my favorite forest said section of fallow abandoned farm field was to be planted in red and white pine plantation. Asked why not let it continue to regenerate on its own as it was starting to become prime forest edge habitat. His answer people want to see trees.

Go figure! The P@$*? society wins again!
I was out scouting for new properties yesterday and noted the minimal amount of new growth bushes. Many hardwood bushes.

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Originally Posted by Frank16

Go figure! The P@$*? society wins again!
I was out scouting for new properties yesterday and noted the minimal amount of new growth bushes. Many hardwood bushes.

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At least better than pine plantation in my opinion.

I’ve sometimes wondered with entire stands of mature ash dying off due to the emerald ash borer; is this creating new habitats?…

I live in Northern WMU 57, I hunt 55a, 57, and northern 60. Grouse population is good in all. Hear lots of drumming in the spring, see lots the roads, flushed over 30 in two weeks of riffle.

I’m seeing a second hatch around here! Was just telling the wife last week that some grouse will be very small come opening day. Seen some with no tail feathers yet. That’s ok, they will get a pass.

Don't worry guys, our beloved MNRF is on it.Millions of dollars have been set aside for research,grouse from Maine,N Ont, N sask,and northern Alberta are being trapped and will be released in time for this years small game opener.My alarm just went off,off to work I go,I just realized I was dreaming.

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

In my area of WMU 60 basically Wollaston Township numbers are extremely low, this trend has been going on for about 3 years but appears to be getting worse. The Spring weather should have been good for the chicks to survive as it has been drier. I think I put up less than 6 birds all two weeks of the deer hunt. Sitting on a several deer stands in good habitat for 6 hours a day most all two weeks did not see a bird. In the past I always had them around the open field cabin area, I saw them off my deer feeders using corn in the past but nothing this past few years. I get the usual hawks an owls and coyotes but they have always been there. The properties around me have been logged to the west east and south, I wonder if this has had an adverse affect taking away some canopy cover. But something is wrong, I feel the same, would not harvest a bird anytime soon.

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Just noticed this post, you may be right about coyotes, owls, and hawks always being there, but remember old timers used to shoot piles of hawks, owls, and when the market was good a lot of grouse predators are fur bearers so many of them were trapped more. Just my opinion.

The population looks good in 47. I spend a lot of time in the Restoule and Commanda and we are seeing lots of birds.

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Originally Posted by Couliewalker

Don't worry guys, our beloved MNRF is on it.Millions of dollars have been set aside for research,grouse from Maine,N Ont, N sask,and northern Alberta are being trapped and will be released in time for this years small game opener.My alarm just went off,off to work I go,I just realized I was dreaming.

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LMFAO thats a good one hahahha

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Similar to other species, grouse populations are naturally cyclical. It’s very difficult to manage small game populations other than trying to improve habitat and it has to occur over thousands of acres to be benefit the population at large.

I wonder what impacts Avian Flu might have on upland game birds.

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Originally Posted by hunter06

Just noticed this post, you may be right about coyotes, owls, and hawks always being there, but remember old timers used to shoot piles of hawks, owls, and when the market was good a lot of grouse predators are fur bearers so many of them were trapped more. Just my opinion.

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Thr old timers also use to shoot everything in sight LOL. My dad said he hasn't seen a jack rabbit in almost a decade. They use to be everywhere where we hunt.

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Originally Posted by longpointer

I know the Ruffed Grouse Society was asking hunters for reports on sightings or drumming heard during the Spring Turkey hunt. There has been the odd sighting near me here in 90B .

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I am in 90b and have not seen or heard one in many years.
It seems to me the decline started the same time the wild turkey was reintroduced to the area.not sure if it related or not. But as a kid doing deer drives grouse use to scare the crap out of me when thy flused.lol

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Originally Posted by Fenelon

I'd like to here from others regarding the population status of Ruffed Grouse based on what you're seeing in the area that you live and/or hunt. You don't see much comment being made by mnr regarding the total crash in areas of the province.I'm pretty sure WNV is the culprit. I live in WMU 75 and I mainly hunt the southern ends of 60. Numbers have been declining over the past 15 to 20 years but now it's dropped to almost total exterpation. There are so few birds now where I live I feel the species should be considered for SARA listing. Next to zero drumming males now in the spring. There is no longer a huntable population. There are so few birds I think I'd feel guilty harvesting the bird if I did find one. You can walk for hours, focussing on good habitat, with a good dog, and you'd be lucky to flush a single bird. I'm not even seeing budding birds when driving hundreds of kilometers around home. How are things in your area?

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Why are you surprised there is no comment from the MNRF?
I have never seen our "voice" (OFAH)officially complain to the mnrf for there lack of "enthusiasm" in helping our small game populations in the province.
The ruffed grouse can be added to the Pheasant,Hun,bobwhite quail list.This list is getting long, yet they sit on their hands and do nothing.

this year was the most grouse iv ever seen while moose hunting. was nothing to see 30 or more just walking out from the moose stand every day

This lad’s not saying farewell any time soon.