Non financial incentive for predator hunting

Just tossing this out there-in a hope of a nice discussion:

Who pays attention knows-predator overabundance hurts another species:

coyote vs deer/turkey/rabbit/grouse
Wolf vs moose/deer
Bear vs moose/deer

yes-we can debate the magnitude-but why ignore the fact?

Anyhow,with this Political climate: Tree huggers-Animal rights(or lack of it-because they protect one species at a cost of another/and they conveniently ignore that )Environmental Groups impacting just about everything-MSM up in the arms at the fist sight of "opposition"to their agenda.......,makes hard for government Agencies to come out with a bounty system which would not be torn to pieces in short order..
System, to give incentive to hunters, to keep unvented predator numbers in check.Until-too late.

Why our own system does not come up with non monetary incentives, to do the same-while saving face?
Ideas,without any deep thinking:

certain number of coyotes = no payment for a deer tag or turkey tag
certain number of coyotes in a certain WMU = no draw and no payment for the additional deer tag there(if available)
certain number of wolfs = no payment for moose tag

the list can go on and on.

Similar system works greatly in many European countries-and while all Animal rights groups are present there as well-it seems causes no issues there.

One only has to look at the new wild pig policy and you can throw the MNRF play book out the window.
There is no logic.

You must be careful around these parts, just the thought of harming a mangy wolf can land you in hot water.

Don't get me wrong I'm in agreement with your thoughts however the MNR will never again offer any incentive to harm a predator.

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A few local Gun Shops/Clubs in Eastern Ont came up with the raffle system....an entry ticket for a new Rifle ..cost a pair of coyote ears. It saw little opposition (rural community) and they did rather well in removing some local 'problems'.

Hoping for MNR involvement in something like that would never fly....unless it was in the form of not getting in the way. HaHa.

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Originally Posted by impact

One only has to look at the new wild pig policy and you can throw the MNRF play book out the window.
There is no logic.

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I wouldn't be the least bit surprised that this hog policy ends up being applied to varmint/predator hunting,too. The seeds have already been sown with the township restrictions surrounding Algonquin Park into northern Peterborough County under the bogus guise of protecting the "Algonquin/Red Wolf" subspecies which was a useless exercise from the get-go. At MNRF,it seems all common sense and logic has been completely abandoned in favor of political correctness driven by brain dead academic bureaucrats running scared from a small,very vocal animal rights wing nuts.

the MNR should be a non-partisan entity, unfortunately its too politicized... just look at what those clowns did with the algonquin "wolf" under the leadership of liberal shill kathryn mcgarry.....

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Originally Posted by gbk

Just tossing this out there-in a hope of a nice discussion:

Who pays attention knows-predator overabundance hurts another species:

coyote vs deer/turkey/rabbit/grouse
Wolf vs moose/deer
Bear vs moose/deer

yes-we can debate the magnitude-but why ignore the fact?

Anyhow,with this Political climate: Tree huggers-Animal rights(or lack of it-because they protect one species at a cost of another/and they conveniently ignore that )Environmental Groups impacting just about everything-MSM up in the arms at the fist sight of "opposition"to their agenda.......,makes hard for government Agencies to come out with a bounty system which would not be torn to pieces in short order..
System, to give incentive to hunters, to keep unvented predator numbers in check.Until-too late.

Why our own system does not come up with non monetary incentives, to do the same-while saving face?
Ideas,without any deep thinking:

certain number of coyotes = no payment for a deer tag or turkey tag
certain number of coyotes in a certain WMU = no draw and no payment for the additional deer tag there(if available)
certain number of wolfs = no payment for moose tag

the list can go on and on.

Similar system works greatly in many European countries-and while all Animal rights groups are present there as well-it seems causes no issues there.

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Good post, good idea's.

We tried doing coyote contest here but ministry was dead against it. Says it brings out the worst in people, Road hunting, trespassing, killing them any means necessary. So we didn't advertise the hunt, just between our small group we had a contest.

Got 2 coyotes today. Most people that don't hunt think these are wolves. They are odd colour, Be rumors around the country side we shot some wolves today lol word travels fast

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...e3dd26137b.jpg

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IMO if there’s any monetary gain to be made to harvest coyotes and wolves it should go to trappers. When the fur sales where decent it was worthwhile for a trapper to manage his trap line properly. Not so much anymore. Like I mentioned in a beaver thread before, the MNRF should establish fix rates for fur. Trappers should still send furs to the market and get what they can then MNRF pays the difference up to the established fix rate.
For the rest of us it was always a sport if you want to hunt them. If you want to make friendly competitions with money in a hat, nobody needs to know about that.

Great thread, and thanks it reminded me to get my wolf licence. Seen a couple already.

Nice SongDog well done. :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by SongDog

We tried doing coyote contest here but ministry was dead against it. Says it brings out the worst in people, Road hunting, trespassing, killing them any means necessary. So we didn't advertise the hunt, just between our small group we had a contest.

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Exactly right. Offer an incentive to shoot coyotes and yahoos will be out shooting anything on four legs that resembles a coyote including family pets.

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

Exactly right. Offer an incentive to shoot coyotes and yahoos will be out shooting anything on four legs that resembles a coyote including family pets.

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ridiculous stereotyping...

Prey species predicate the population of the preying species. Hunting has little impact, if you can trust the studies.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

ridiculous stereotyping...

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Run for it! The antis have infiltrated.

You can tell what someone is here for with posts degrading hunters as a whole.

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That’s a very poor statement.

We got two out of five today. The beef farmer lost two head just recently….so no, they don’t just eat mice!!!

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Originally Posted by Ontdon

Prey species predicate the population of the preying species. Hunting has little impact, if you can trust the studies.

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Actually no-at least in the areas ,where human population is spread enough to have effective impact on predators.

Just look at most of Europe-in most of it,hunting is lot different then here.
With that comes individual involvement in maintaining specie levels .
There are requirment"points" to be met,to help wildlife. Building watering holes,cutting wegetation,cutting winter acess,feeding year round wildlife,planting shelters-You name it.Positive labout of love to help game species.Mandated by requirements to all hunters.
Built in incentives( not ,or a very minimum bounty system)where an individual hunter earns his yearly "requirement points"instead of "working"but hunting predators.
Part of the circle of life- more predators-less game.

In Europe-this happens for centuries, no one questions it,it is part of being a hunter.

Do not just TAKE,but GIVE before You can TAKE.

Here in NA ,traditions are different,thus selling this to either hunters-or to the public is a challenge.

Rememeber-every study will show you one thing-then the exact opposite also.If it suits the one ,who wants to sell an agenda.

At the end-just read up the literature on the Yellowstone Grey wolves, the Idahoan Elk ,Michipicoten island caribou debacle,or perhaps the Ontario Hungarian partridge.
Or lack of them.

Even our own MNRF has all the actions on a go to wipe out all the moose north of the Superior(by using hunters )to make room for the return of the caribou.
The Caribou-which will then flourish, since by having NO moose anymore, by the time Caribou spreads, all the wolves starve to death ,due of nothing to eat(moose gone-right?).
This is sadly not even a study-this is action almost accomplished(at least -the wiping out the once mighty moose heard there).
Will will yet to see if the caribou will ever return....!

Balance in everything is the key.

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Originally Posted by oaknut

Run for it! The antis have infiltrated.

You can tell what someone is here for with posts degrading hunters as a whole.

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Not hunters as a whole. Just the yahoos.

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

Not hunters as a whole. Just the yahoos.

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And how many yahoos would that be to prevent an incentive from being offered?

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

Not hunters as a whole. Just the yahoos.

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You don't make laws for stupid people.

There are a lot more smarter people who loose out from the stupid.

There is laws already in place you break it you man up to the consequences you don't put everyone under the bus because someone might do something stupid.


Everyone want more laws because someone " might " do something they shouldn't.



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Quote:

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Originally Posted by SongDog

We tried doing coyote contest here but ministry was dead against it. Says it brings out the worst in people, Road hunting, trespassing, killing them any means necessary. So we didn't advertise the hunt, just between our small group we had a contest.

Got 2 coyotes today. Most people that don't hunt think these are wolves. They are odd colour, Be rumors around the country side we shot some wolves today lol word travels fast

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...e3dd26137b.jpg

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Nice work.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishfood

You don't make laws for stupid people.

There are a lot more smarter people who loose out from the stupid.

There is laws already in place you break it you man up to the consequences you don't put everyone under the bus because someone might do something stupid.


Everyone want more laws because someone " might " do something they shouldn't.



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You also don't extend incentives when stupid people will take them up.

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

You also don't extend incentives when stupid people will take them up.

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Thats like saying nobody can drive because a few will speed or nobody can fish because someone will get high or drunk out on the water. That way of thinking causes everyone to lose out due to the fault of a few.

How about policing the yahoo's, charging them and removing their rights to participate. Stop defending the game wardens. Heck we could even be doing this activity as a group and show the yahoo's a better way to behave and still be successful.

Or.... we could just follow the script lay out before us by the sick minded and ban everything because someone might do wrong one day.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by oaknut

Thats like saying nobody can drive because a few will speed or nobody can fish because someone will get high or drunk out on the water. That way of thinking causes everyone to lose out due to the fault of a few.

How about policing the yahoo's, charging them and removing their rights to participate. Stop defending the game wardens. Heck we could even be doing this activity as a group and show the yahoo's a better way to behave and still be successful.

Or.... we could just follow the script lay out before us by the sick minded and ban everything because someone might do wrong one day.

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All it takes is one yahoo to kill someone's pet to hurt us all. Best not to give the yahoos any incentive.

Counties use to do this $20 per proof of death was like pulling teeth. Why it’s not done now I believe

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

All it takes is one yahoo to kill someone's pet to hurt us all. Best not to give the yahoos any incentive.

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So then the person that was the yahoo gets in trouble. If they know an area will be busy then they keep an eye out in that area that's what they get paid for .

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theres local contests that i see for coyotes and the prizes are nice.
i like that idea because it builds a sense of community.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gbk

Just tossing this out there-in a hope of a nice discussion:

Who pays attention knows-predator overabundance hurts another species:

coyote vs deer/turkey/rabbit/grouse
Wolf vs moose/deer
Bear vs moose/deer

yes-we can debate the magnitude-but why ignore the fact?

Anyhow,with this Political climate: Tree huggers-Animal rights(or lack of it-because they protect one species at a cost of another/and they conveniently ignore that )Environmental Groups impacting just about everything-MSM up in the arms at the fist sight of "opposition"to their agenda.......,makes hard for government Agencies to come out with a bounty system which would not be torn to pieces in short order..
System, to give incentive to hunters, to keep unvented predator numbers in check.Until-too late.

Why our own system does not come up with non monetary incentives, to do the same-while saving face?
Ideas,without any deep thinking:

certain number of coyotes = no payment for a deer tag or turkey tag
certain number of coyotes in a certain WMU = no draw and no payment for the additional deer tag there(if available)
certain number of wolfs = no payment for moose tag

the list can go on and on.

Similar system works greatly in many European countries-and while all Animal rights groups are present there as well-it seems causes no issues there.

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I agree. It’s not like the financial incentives would exceed the fines/consequences of doing something illegal. Predator hunters don’t stand to win millions and a beach house in Bahamas.

More self management is a good idea generally without calling in the state for everything. Heck, we already work for free with our mandatory reporting to the ‘ministry’ (always thought that was a very Orwellian sounding name).

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Originally Posted by Bushwhacker

I agree. It’s not like the financial incentives would exceed the fines/consequences of doing something illegal. Predator hunters don’t stand to win millions and a beach house in Bahamas.

More self management is a good idea generally without calling in the state for everything. Heck, we already work for free with our mandatory reporting to the ‘ministry’ (always thought that was a very Orwellian sounding name).

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On a recent animal welfare site they actually quote the Fish and Widlife Conservation Act which prohibits offering gain. I know some Townships do offer monetary rewards, I have not looked into the Regulations but will assume they allow this?

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

On a recent animal welfare site they actually quote the Fish and Widlife Conservation Act which prohibits offering gain. I know some Townships do offer monetary rewards, I have not looked into the Regulations but will assume they allow this?

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Not sure how a coyote contest would be different from a big buck contest.

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

Your head is in the sand if you don't think there is the occasional yahoo with a hunting license who either accidentally or deliberately shoot family pets.

https://www.thepeterboroughexaminer....oting-dog.html



https://www.guelphmercury.com/news-s...-pet-dog-shot/



https://globalnews.ca/news/6261364/t...hunter-guilty/



https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-...nter-1.1349190



https://globalnews.ca/news/3971766/h...stern-alberta/



Giving people a financial incentive to shoot coyotes would only make this problem worse.

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...and yet none of these was related to a coyote hunting contest....

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

Not sure how a coyote contest would be different from a big buck contest.

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Is a big buck contest actually legal?


Hunting or trapping for gain
11 (1) Except with the authorization of the Minister, a person shall not,

(a) hunt for hire, gain or the expectation of gain;

(b) hire, employ or induce another person to hunt for gain;

(c) trap for hire, gain or the expectation of gain;

(d) hire, employ or induce another person to trap for gain; or

(e) pay or accept a bounty.

Guides and black bear hunting services
(2) Clause (1) (a) does not apply to a guide within the meaning of section 32 or to a provider of black bear hunting services within the meaning of that section, and clause (1) (b) does not apply to a person who employs or hires the guide or the provider of black bear hunting services.

Trappers
(3) Clauses (1) (a) and (c) do not apply to a person who hunts or traps furbearing mammals or black bear under the authority of a licence to trap.

Same
(4) Clauses (1) (b) and (d) do not apply to a person who holds a licence to trap and who hires, employs or induces another person who holds a licence to trap to hunt or trap furbearing mammals or black bear on his or her behalf.

Other exceptions
(5) Clauses (1) (a) to (d) do not apply in the circumstances prescribed by the regulations. 1997, c. 41, s. 11

Here's some progressive action from the US on coyotes.
I'm sure that would make some heads explode in Ontario...

https://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/c...ooting-coyotes

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

Here's some progressive action from the US on coyotes.
I'm sure that would make some heads explode in Ontario...

https://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/c...ooting-coyotes

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Interesting concept-thinking outside the box.

Something alongside the non financial gain thought....

Looks like : if there is a will -there is a way.
Thank You for sharing Werner.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

Here's some progressive action from the US on coyotes.
I'm sure that would make some heads explode in Ontario...

https://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/c...ooting-coyotes

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Looks like a great idea to reduce biologist field time and telemetry.
An opportunity for hunters to contribute and be rewarded unlike our backward system that fines you if you fail to report.

"The SCDNR also reports that over the last five years, a total of 80 coyotes have been tagged and released, with another 16 coyotes to be tagged in 2021-22 trapping season. To date, approximately half of the tagged coyotes have been reported taken. Coyotes tagged in any year are eligible for the lifetime license incentive. The specially marked tags provide contact information directly on them. Only the uniquely identifiable SCDNR coyote tags are eligible for the lifetime license as there are potentially some coyotes that have been tagged for research purposes."

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

...and yet none of these was related to a coyote hunting contest....

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Precisely the point. If dogs are being killed by hunters in the absence of a financial incentive offering cash or cheaper licenses would only make the problem worse.

Few more coyotes I got lol


Seen some azzhat shot a big horned sheep in Montana not long ago, Mistaken it for an Elk.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...8e7fde4c78.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...1d86a20928.jpg

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

Precisely the point. If dogs are being killed by hunters in the absence of a financial incentive offering cash or cheaper licenses would only make the problem worse.

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Hard to follow your logic... or lack thereof.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

Precisely the point. If dogs are being killed by hunters in the absence of a financial incentive offering cash or cheaper licenses would only make the problem worse.

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Not necessarily true

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