The Vilification of the Unvaccinated

Watching the news this week it's becoming glaringly obvious that some leaders have decided to blame their inability to control the Omicron variant on a small portion of the population, the unvaccinated. Rex Murphy wrote a great piece in the NP on Sunday describing the phenomenon and laying it at the feet of our very own Village Idiot.

see: https://nationalpost.com/opinion/rex...punishment-tax

This is a clip from a reporter in the UK that has also seen the pattern forming. He's right, pay attention and it's easy to see how society is been manipulated.

Worth listening to, he has a lot to say and is bang on...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpqC1cb-RmU

Oh and just in case you buying into the the MSM numbers about the unvaccinated being the problem with hospitals admissions...data from Heath Ontario contradicts what you're being told.

The vaccinated are more prevalent in both categories...

https://i.imgur.com/BXBdrdBl.png

Yup..and sheeple are asleep to it all

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Originally Posted by line052

Yup..and sheeple are asleep to it all

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It' actually worse...there awake but refuse to accept facts counter to their beliefs and lash out at those providing proof they are been manipulated.

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Originally Posted by line052

Yup..and sheeple are asleep to it all

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I personally think the endless insults from one side to the other (no matter what side your on), has turned most of the population off completely so they just don't care anymore. Its just like politics during an election. The go to statement is an insult. Who wants to read that.

At least Mike posts his info to explain his position, with data, and that is worth reading.
One line insults are just useless to trying to make a point no matter what side your on.

More on the subject.
Love that Florida governor.

"DOUBLE-JABBED Scots are now more likely to be admitted to hospital with Covid than the unvaccinated amid an increase in elderly people falling ill due to waning immunity."

"It comes amid "weird" data showing that case rates have been lower in unvaccinated individuals than the single, double, or even triple-jabbed since Omicron became the dominant variant in Scotland."

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...ns/?ref=twtrec

"Gov. Ron DeSantis On Hospitals Letting The Covid-Positive Work After Firing The Unvaccinated

"If you're unvaccinated, naturally immune, and uninfected, they fire you. But if you are covid-positive and vaccinated, which we know most of the people that are covid positive now are vaxxed, they are going back on the job.

It just shows you that CMS mandate is absolutely insane especially given the ineffectiveness of these shots to actually stop transmission."

https://rumble.com/vskp91-de-santis.html

https://i.imgur.com/IyhsGNX.jpg

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Originally Posted by impact

"DOUBLE-JABBED Scots are now more likely to be admitted to hospital with Covid than the unvaccinated amid an increase in elderly people falling ill due to waning immunity." ]

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That's informative, we know that the UK is about 4-5 months ahead of us and our data is going the same way. So that will basically be our future as well.

The vaccinated will continue to be the predominantly infected patients in the hospitals.

as a side note: My Mom told me yesterday she has Covid ...she's in an assisted living complex, very strict Covid protocols, she's double vaxxed plus Booster. She had the Booster about a month ago...so it has NOTHING to do with the vaccine waining...it just doesn't protect against this variant.

If she can get it...anyone can get it.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

That's informative, we know that the UK is about 4-5 months ahead of us and our data is going the same way. So that will basically be our future aswell.
The vaccinated will continue to be the predominantly infected patients in the hospitals.

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And they will keep persecuting the un-vaxxed just for profit and control.
Remember folks, you are only truly fully vaxxed when the "government" deems you to be.
It does not matter if you have 1 or 2 jabs. Its what "they" decide what you should be'

Had enough already of the lies and BS?

This is data is interesting...latest data from positive PCR tests.

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Of those who qualified for PCR testing, 1,336 of the positive cases detected Thursday involved unvaccinated people, 303 involved partially vaccinated people, 7,753 involved people with at least two doses of vaccine and the status of another 517 cases was not known.

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Originally Posted by FishHog

I personally think the endless insults from one side to the other (no matter what side your on), has turned most of the population off completely so they just don't care anymore.

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I agree, who gives a carp anymore. The banter back and forth with all the name calling is getting to be a joke. What should be a tight knit group of outdoorsmen are at each other, so is the general public. Each side of the argument is trying to tell the other how to live, give me a break.

If you want it, get it, if you don't, don't. Pretty simple.

To call someone an anti vaxxer for being fully vaccinated pre pandemic is just an act of a complete and utter moron. The who use the term deserve a swat as they are the same people that posted the "back of the bus" signs way back when.

On the other side, talking down to someone who gets a covid vaccine is no better. Good for them, they took initiative to keep themselves safe.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

That's informative, we know that the UK is about 4-5 months ahead of us and our data is going the same way. So that will basically be our future as well.

The vaccinated will continue to be the predominantly infected patients in the hospitals.

as a side note: My Mom told me yesterday she has Covid ...she's in an assisted living complex, very strict Covid protocols, she's double vaxxed plus Booster. She had the Booster about a month ago...so it has NOTHING to do with the vaccine waining...it just does protect against this variant.

If she can get it...anyone can get it.

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All the third dose does is reduce the severity of the symptoms.
It does not protect from getting infected.
The people pushing the vaxes are telling us this.
Which leads to my head scratching over why the unvaxed are being vilified.

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

All the third dose does is reduce the severity of the symptoms.
It does not protect from getting infected.
The people pushing the vaxes are telling us this.
Which leads to my head scratching over why the unvaxed are being vilified.

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Guess its a matter of perspective. I see the vax being the ones vilified with the constant reference to being mindless sheep.
All and all vax ,don't vax your choice just follow the guidelines put forth for your chosen path.

Vilify, create fear and hatred, divide, .. a “political opportunity.” What is more leftist than to create race/class hatred and use it for power? Those that use it as a “political opportunity.” and their supporters need to be remembered and made responsible at some point...unlikely but hopefully.


https://nationalpost.com/opinion/rex...ly-pretty-dark
"Perhaps instead we should attend to the other, more troubling phrase, her characterization of COVID-19 as a “political opportunity.” It’s troubling for two reasons. This plague has brought death and vast anxiety to very, very many people. It is, to be most gentle, in any context, more than jarring for a leading public figure to characterize it as a “political opportunity.”

To those who follow politics it immediately calls to mind that crass attitude of mind of Rahm Emanuel, President Obama’s chief-of-staff, when he declared, with a super abundance of cynicism “never let a crisis go to waste.”

Yep, the precedent was set when they decided to put down $1B to help communities with handgun bans, creating a city by city variation with different laws like in the mess the US has. Divide and conquer, like you can see in Solzhenitsyn's description of the creeping totalitarianism. The old "First they came for" that repeats until they had power and none were left to oppose them.

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Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers

,don't vax your choice just follow the guidelines put forth for your chosen path.

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But that is not a 'choice' anymore..mandates have taken that choice away. Now thru coercion, they have restricted so much that people are losing their jobs and kids are be restricted for getting an education if they aren't vaccinated and they are not provided with an alternative that proves immunity.

Now that Idiot in Que wants to make them pay for medical care and restrict them from buying booze (once deemed essential) .

Choice ??...no that boat sailed long ago..

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Originally Posted by mosquito

Yep, the precedent was set when they decided to put down $1B to help communities with handgun bans, creating a city by city variation with different laws like in the mess the US has. Divide and conquer, like you can see in Solzhenitsyn's description of the creeping totalitarianism. The old "First they came for" that repeats until they had power and none were left to oppose them.

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I thought I share how Canada looks from the outside. Hopefully it meets the forum standards?
https://www.instagram.com/p/CYcwsKlLTad/

Some data that I talked about a while ago I was going to add up the cases numbers on my own but haven't had the time.

Data shows 4 out 5 deaths after the first dose but classified as unvaccinated. You can clearly see it from the charts provided by the government of Canada

https://www.infowars.com/posts/gover...r-vaccination/

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It’s were we are. Vilification be it political, vaccination related, or whatever is now the new normal. Lost is the ability do have a discussion and respect a different opinion. Instead it who can out insult or out meme someone.

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Originally Posted by Cameracutter

It’s were we are. Vilification be it political, vaccination related, or whatever is now the new normal. Lost is the ability do have a discussion and respect a different opinion. Instead it who can out insult or out meme someone.

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A social media problem when anyone can spew any nonsense and someone might believe it. They then accept it as fact and try to use it in debate. Emotions run high with lack of truthful fact based information and mud slinging ensues.

It’s becoming more of a problem now then ever because of how many platforms are available. There’s lots of money tied up in views, so most platforms don’t censor misinformation. Bad news and anger sell better than good news and happiness. It’s the world we live in unfortunately. Crazy and outlandish = More views = more money through advertisements = happy social media platforms and investors regardless of the social implications on society.

In politics it happens a lot now too. No longer are campaigns based on the merits a politician has and the platform they represent. No, now it’s about digging up dirt on your opponent. Setting up a hot mic at an inconvenient time, or catching a photo in an embarrassing situation.

Integrity as a whole in our population is dying.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

He's right, pay attention and it's easy to see how society is been manipulated.

Worth listening to, he has a lot to say and is bang on...

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Here is another example. Straight face and still I can't stop laughing....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZWRcRjxT9c

Interesting stats on the unvaccinated....

Sticking to Ontario numbers....

There are only 1.8 million unvaccinated ..12% of the population.

of that 60% are the age between 5-11...about 1 million.

The next biggest cohort of the unvaccinated are the 18-29 age group at 14% or about 112,000 people.

So roughly there are less than 1 million people over 12+ who have not been vaccinated in Ont (population15 million). Most are young people with few comorbidity issues.

But they are being blamed by the MSM for bringing down the entire health care system. Even when the data show the VACCINATED account for almost 3x the Hospitalizations and more than 1/2 ( 56%) the ICU patients.

Also, throw in that the hospital's numbers that are being flashed across the screen don't seem to jive with reality.

For example..during the peak of the Omicron wave....Ottawa a city of 1.2 million, has only 61 patients in the Hospital and 8 in the ICU... :


Yet the Villiage Idiot, the guy in charge, continues to vilify the unvaccinated as the worst threat of the pandemic...give your head a shake.


stats from: https://nationalpost.com/news/canada...ons-in-country

I think Omicron made the whole vaccinated/unvaccinated thing a moot point, but seems its taking the politicians a while to catch up.
That being said, if only 12% are unvaccinated, but they are still at 44% of the ICU cases, I guess we can blame that additional 32% on not being vaccinated and I'm sure the hospital staff would love to not have those additional 32% in the hospital.

But again its pretty much an arguement about nothing these days. I know this all happened fast, since we hardly knew of omicron a month ago but you would think the politicians would realize that they are going to have to change direction, not sure why they are resistant.

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Originally Posted by FishHog

I think Omicron made the whole vaccinated/unvaccinated thing a moot point, but seems its taking the politicians a while to catch up.
That being said, if only 12% are unvaccinated, but they are still at 44% of the ICU cases, I guess we can blame that additional 32% on not being vaccinated and I'm sure the hospital staff would love to not have those additional 32% in the hospital.

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But it's not 12%....take away the 5-11 age group that aren't being hospitalized, there are only 6% of the remaining population that is unvaccinated.

In the city of Ottawa with only 6 patients in the ICU, 32 % amounts to 2 patients. They are, statistically, there not for Covid but for the comorbidity issues that the virus exacerbated. They are still sick and entitled to universal health care provided to all Canadians.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

But it's not 12%....take away the 5-11 age group that aren't being hospitalized, there are only 6% of the remaining population that is unvaccinated.

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That doesn't actually help your arguement, but again I agree its basically a moot point these days.
Omicron clearly isn't affected by the vaccine other than it makes people less sick. Sure isn't stopping spread, which seems to be an equal opportunity provider.
I don't think any of us are avoiding this one, and at the end of the day that might be what puts an end to this stupidity.

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Originally Posted by Bushwhacker

Also, I would add that now the double vaccinated are classified as unvaccinated -- so don’t let them fool you when they say “unvaccinated” are filling up the hospitals because the narrative is crumbling.

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Not sure where they are doing that, but its not Ontario.....Yet anyway

It's high time to admit vaccine failure.

https://www.riotimesonline.com/brazi...admit-failure/

Attachment 43124

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You refused to adopt the “Barrington Declaration”, signed by more than 60,000 scientists and medical professionals, or other common-sense programs.

You chose to ridicule, slander, distort, and discredit them.

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Dr. Tam...... The Village Idiot.......Dr Patty Hajdu :)

https://i.imgur.com/9KtrR5Il.jpg

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Originally Posted by Patriot

It's high time to admit vaccine failure.

https://www.riotimesonline.com/brazi...admit-failure/

Attachment 43124

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It prevents serious illness. We’ve seen it in the hospitals. Granted it does not prevent transmission. Failure, maybe, but it depends on how full or empty your glass is.

For all board members. Please remember that the news (every angled media outlet, even your own) highlights the negative for more views/ratings. Don’t buy into the hype. Not everyone is blaming the unvaccinated for spreading the virus. It is obviously just as transmissible in the vaccinated.

Is anyone still claiming it "prevents transmission of the omicron variant". If so then yes they need to admit it failed at that.
But that fact has been blatently clear for weeks now, is covered every night on the news. Not sure why you think it's a new revelation.
The numbers prove it very clearly and any idiot could figure that out.

Still appears to help with hospitilization, and that is very important to some and still adds some value for the health care system.

Its not new that variants form that current vaccines don't work against. That is why we have a new flu vaccine every year. Since these current vaccines have been out for over a year, its not exactly surprising news. At least is shouldn't be.

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Originally Posted by Birdbuff

It prevents serious illness. We’ve seen it in the hospitals. Granted it does not prevent transmission. Failure, maybe, but it depends on how full or empty your glass is.

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According to who, hospitals are now overwhelmed with vaccinated patients.
Not in my lifetime has millions of people taken three shots of vaccine in twelve months but still got infected hospitalized and died. If you think your going to boost your way out of this you need another full glass of what ever your drinking.

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Originally Posted by Patriot

Not in my lifetime has millions of people taken three shots of vaccine in twelve months but still got infected hospitalized and died.

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I bet lots of people who had the flu over your lifetime after taking the flu vax would argue with you if they were still alive.
I'm not saying you should get the vax, but the facts are pretty clear that it is indeed keeping some people out of the ICU.
Its also very clear that it isn't working against this new variant to stop transmission.

I don't think anyone thinks boosters are the way out of this, but they are a way to keep some who choose them out of the hospital.

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Originally Posted by FishHog

I bet lots of people who had the flu over your lifetime after taking the flu vax would argue with you if they were still alive.
I'm not saying you should get the vax, but the facts are pretty clear that it is indeed keeping some people out of the ICU.
Its also very clear that it isn't working against this new variant to stop transmission.

I don't think anyone thinks boosters are the way out of this, but they are a way to keep some who choose them out of the hospital.

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People didn't take three flu shots in a single year.
Where exactly are you getting your facts from? Hospitals now are overwhelmed with vaccinated patients in icu's, something msm news will not report. If covid vaccines are working why are hospitals filling with vaccinated patients? Every narrative to vilify the uncompliant has crumbled when truth is revealed. Under twenty-four months we've seen the the vilification and blame of covid towards people that didn't stay home, wouldn't wear masks, wouldn't get fully-vaccinated, wouldn't mix vaccines to be fully-vaccinted. This list go's on like vax passports QR codes job loss for non-compliance. How awfully embarrassing it must be for those who complied their way into being treated the same now as the unvaccinated. Do the vaccinated still think or believe the reason they're locked down is because of the unvaccinated? It's not rocket science to figure things out that many people were fully aware of long ago would be happening now.

And since so many people were ok getting the mandatory shots to keep their job what's one more . To be considered fully vaccinated.

How many just took the 2 thinking it was just the 2 like they said . Now it's 3 and soon will be 4 . And it's won't even stop you from getting covid.

Risk from covid risks from the shots now people are taking several risks just to become fully vaccinated and you still have a risk of developing severe symptoms even after being vaccinated.



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Originally Posted by Patriot

People didn't take three flu shots in a single year.
Where exactly are you getting your facts from? Hospitals now are overwhelmed with vaccinated patients in icu's, something msm news will not report. If covid vaccines are working why are hospitals filling with vaccinated patients? Every narrative to vilify the uncompliant has crumbled when truth is revealed. Under twenty-four months we've seen the the vilification and blame of covid towards people that didn't stay home, wouldn't wear masks, wouldn't get fully-vaccinated, wouldn't mix vaccines to be fully-vaccinted. This list go's on like vax passports QR codes job loss for non-compliance. How awfully embarrassing it must be for those who complied their way into being treated the same now as the unvaccinated. Do the vaccinated still think or believe the reason they're locked down is because of the unvaccinated? It's not rocket science to figure things out that many people were fully aware of long ago would be happening now.

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Well ontario posts the stats in hospital. Percentage wise there is still a larger number in ICU of unvax than vax, but I don't think you really care about the numbers, you just want to rant about other things changing the subject, so have at it. Sorry I bothered you with my reply.

Vax / un-vax....who friggin cares. We are all human beings with different medical conditions that strike us down during our lifetime.
The government created this mess and now it is up to us as civilized people to clean it up.

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Originally Posted by FishHog

. Percentage wise there is still a larger number in ICU of unvax than vax,

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ahhhh....NO

Ontario

https://i.imgur.com/BXBdrdBl.png

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Originally Posted by MikePal

ahhhh....NO

Ontario

https://i.imgur.com/BXBdrdBl.png

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Do you purposefully argue the numbers to stir the pot or what?

If 9 out of 10 people in Ontario are vaccinated (90%) and the icu has a 50/50 of unvaccinated to vaccinated ratio that would mean that the unvaccinated represent a higher likeliness of being in the ICU, regardless of the total number of patients currently in the icu.

10 people total

9 are vaccinate ————- 1 is not
- ICU is currently reporting a near 50% split between the 2 groups
- therefore the only unvaccinated person is in the ICU along with 1 of the 9 vaccinated.

Am I incorrect?

No you are not correct. The narrative you keep pushing is a big farce.

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Originally Posted by impact

No you are not correct. The narrative you keep pushing is a big farce.

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Please go on. What exact narrative? How am I incorrect. Let’s be civil about this. We are here to debate aren’t we.

Which path to you wish to follow?

https://i.imgur.com/bv8I6WH.jpg

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Originally Posted by impact

Which path to you wish to follow?

https://i.imgur.com/bv8I6WH.jpg

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Instead of facts you bring fairytales. Memes are cool, but seriously if you are going to call me out on my math, explain to me how I’m wrong.

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Originally Posted by Birdbuff

Instead of facts you bring fairytales. Memes are cool, but seriously if you are going to call me out on my math, explain to me how I’m wrong.

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Number 3

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Originally Posted by Birdbuff

Do you purposefully argue the numbers to stir the pot or what?

If 9 out of 10 people in Ontario are vaccinated (90%) and the icu has a 50/50 of unvaccinated to vaccinated ratio that would mean that the unvaccinated represent a higher likeliness of being in the ICU, regardless of the total number of patients currently in the icu.

10 people total

9 are vaccinate ————- 1 is not
- ICU is currently reporting a near 50% split between the 2 groups
- therefore the only unvaccinated person is in the ICU along with 1 of the 9 vaccinated.

Am I incorrect?

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By my math your absolutely correct. I don’t see what the others see in those numbers

I’m not promoting to get vaxed if you don’t want to whatsoever but when it’s roughly a 50/50 split in the icu but 82% vaccinated there is clearly a benefit there

Please explain what you guys see differently.

In our health care system all patients are equal. In the ICU, in particular, there is no judgment as to why a person is there. Whether it was due to long term illness due to genetic defects or long-term use of drugs like alcohol. You are ‘sick’ and they take care of you. That is the law.

Whether two of the six patients are vaccinated or not is not a consideration….if they test positive for the virus they are in isolation and treated accordingly.

As it stands now statistically over 55% (and rising) testing positive in the ICU happen to be fully vaccinated, but is irrelevant because the other 45% are unvaccinated. All the staff sees is that they're Covid patients where the virus has exacerbated one or more of their comorbidity issues.


The vaxxed vs unvaxxed issue is purely a political wedge, being used for the sole purpose to manipulate the public into getting vaccinated. In the case of Hospitalizations, it backfired when the vaccine failed to prevent the vaccinated from becoming infected and seeking medical care. What was..”see what happens if you don’t’ get vaccinated” has turned into .."it doesn’t matter if you're vaccinated you can still get infected”

All in all , the whole ICU crisis issue is full-blown MSM hyperbole.

Facts:

Ontario has also built unprecedented hospital capacity since the start of the pandemic, including $5.1 billion to add 3,100 beds across the province for a total of approximately 17,000 medical and surgical beds. Through additional investments, the province now has a total of 2,436 adult and paediatric ICU beds. Approximately 600 ICU beds remain available today, with the ability to add nearly 500 additional beds if required.

Fact: at the peak of the Omicron wave..In Ontario.. there were 558 Covid patients in the ICU’s. Both Ottawa and Toronto ICU's are at at 74% occupancy.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

In our health care system all patients are equal. In the ICU, in particular, there is no judgment as to why a person is there. Whether it was due to long term illness due to genetic defects or long-term use of drugs like alcohol. You are ‘sick’ and they take care of you. That is the law.

Whether two of the six patients are vaccinated or not is not a consideration….if they test positive for the virus they are in isolation and treated accordingly.

As it stands now statistically over 55% (and rising) testing positive in the ICU happen to be fully vaccinated, but is irrelevant because the other 45% are unvaccinated. All the staff sees is that there are Covid patients where the virus has exacerbated one or more of their comorbidity issues.


The vaxxed vs unvaxxed issue is purely a political wedge, being used for the sole purpose to manipulate the public into getting vaccinated. In the case of Hospitalizations, it backfired when the vaccine failed to prevent the vaccinated from becoming infected and seeking medical care. What was..”see what happens if you don’t’ get vaccinated” has turned into .."it doesn’t matter if you're vaccinated you can still get infected”

All in all , the whole ICU crisis issue is full-blown MSM hyperbole.

Facts:

Ontario has also built unprecedented hospital capacity since the start of the pandemic, including $5.1 billion to add 3,100 beds across the province for a total of approximately 17,000 medical and surgical beds. Through additional investments, the province now has a total of 2,436 adult and paediatric ICU beds. Approximately 600 ICU beds remain available today, with the ability to add nearly 500 additional beds if required.

Fact. at the peak of the Omicron wave..In Ontario.. there were 558 Covid patients in the ICU’s

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Well said.

If you talk to doctors or those working in health care they will tell you our system has been operating at capacity many years prior to covid, and there are politically incorrect (but nevertheless correct) reasons for this.

If the hospitals were in such a sudden crisis why would they be firing nurses for wrongthink? Same with EMS, police, etc.

We know the majority of deaths were from elderly people who exceeded the average life expectancy in the country. The ICU #'s were higher because many LTC patients were waiting to be transferred and took up the ICU beds that would have been occupied by more short term patients. There were comorbidity issues they didn't publish or discuss. They admitted to severely inflating the covid death #'s, have admitted the vaccines aren't as effective as we were all promised, and have admitted too many shots can harm your natural immune system.

And again those with 2 shots are in the same boat as those with 0 -- not considered fully vaccinated. Trudeau just ordered another 100 million doses...

The narrative has crumbled completely and now they've shifted to one single point: think of the ICU capacity!

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Originally Posted by MikePal

In our health care system all patients are equal. In the ICU, in particular, there is no judgment as to why a person is there. Whether it was due to long term illness due to genetic defects or long-term use of drugs like alcohol. You are ‘sick’ and they take care of you. That is the law.

Whether two of the six patients are vaccinated or not is not a consideration….if they test positive for the virus they are in isolation and treated accordingly.

As it stands now statistically over 55% (and rising) testing positive in the ICU happen to be fully vaccinated, but is irrelevant because the other 45% are unvaccinated. All the staff sees is that they're Covid patients where the virus has exacerbated one or more of their comorbidity issues.


The vaxxed vs unvaxxed issue is purely a political wedge, being used for the sole purpose to manipulate the public into getting vaccinated. In the case of Hospitalizations, it backfired when the vaccine failed to prevent the vaccinated from becoming infected and seeking medical care. What was..”see what happens if you don’t’ get vaccinated” has turned into .."it doesn’t matter if you're vaccinated you can still get infected”

All in all , the whole ICU crisis issue is full-blown MSM hyperbole.

Facts:

Ontario has also built unprecedented hospital capacity since the start of the pandemic, including $5.1 billion to add 3,100 beds across the province for a total of approximately 17,000 medical and surgical beds. Through additional investments, the province now has a total of 2,436 adult and paediatric ICU beds. Approximately 600 ICU beds remain available today, with the ability to add nearly 500 additional beds if required.

Fact: at the peak of the Omicron wave..In Ontario.. there were 558 Covid patients in the ICU’s. Both Ottawa and Toronto ICU's are at at 74% occupancy.

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I agree 100% with all of that.

Still there is less chance statistically of ending up in the ICU if your vaccinated. Which the numbers you posted prove, so I'm still confused as to why you disagreed with me earlier on that point.
Its just numbers, they aren't political, but they do still show a trend for those who want to take that extra precaution.
I'm not into the vax/unvax thing, but I do like to look at the stats and see what they show.
Its not an arguement to discuss the stats, or an attack on anyone if the stats show something other than what you want them to.
Everything you posted above can be true, even with what I'm saying being true. It doesn't have to be a one or the other.
Anyway, I'm not here to argue, I enjoy reading peoples opinions, and understand that they vary but I'm also a statistical guy and look at those also.

Despite the gov't being slow to react to the fact that omicron is making the vax a pretty moot point, most of the people are understanding it and the gov't will soon have to accept the stats as well.

From 2 days ago Ontario stats

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMLeNsWUL/

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Originally Posted by cramadog2

From 2 days ago Ontario stats

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMLeNsWUL/

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Who can spin stats anyway you want. Her baseline is people over 30. She makes no mention of comorbidities.
As you get older this increases.
At the end of the day, it makes no difference if you are vaxxed or unvaxxed. The people with pre-existing conditions are most at risk.

This, is what they don't want you to know!

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Originally Posted by FishHog

I agree 100% with all of that.

Still there is less chance statistically of ending up in the ICU if your vaccinated. Which the numbers you posted prove, so I'm still confused as to why you disagreed with me earlier on that point.
Its just numbers, they aren't political, but they do still show a trend for those who want to take that extra precaution.
I'm not into the vax/unvax thing, but I do like to look at the stats and see what they show.
Its not an arguement to discuss the stats, or an attack on anyone if the stats show something other than what you want them to.
Everything you posted above can be true, even with what I'm saying being true. It doesn't have to be a one or the other.
Anyway, I'm not here to argue, I enjoy reading peoples opinions, and understand that they vary but I'm also a statistical guy and look at those also.

Despite the gov't being slow to react to the fact that omicron is making the vax a pretty moot point, most of the people are understanding it and the gov't will soon have to accept the stats as well.

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There are lies, damn lies, and statistics. Let's examine the statistics closely.

77.6% of the population that is eligible to receive the "vaccine" is considered fully vaxxed (2 or more doses) not 90%

5-19 yearolds who have about a 0.0004% chance of ending up in hospital or ICU make up 16% of the population, approximately 10% of them are fully vaxxed.

If we remove the 10% of the population that is vaxxed but was never at risk of a negative outcome from the 77.6% of the fully vaxxed we end up with a more accurate 67.6% demographic of who is fully vaxxed with the potential to end up in the hospital and ICU.

Another fun fact is that for the "vaccine" to be approved under it's emergency use application it had to meet a benchmark of atleast 50% efficacy which it clearly does not when you take the above factors into account, this is how and why they are deceiving us.
Attachment 43127

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

ahhhh....NO

Ontario

https://i.imgur.com/BXBdrdBl.png

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Respond with this and then come back saying these numbers don't really matter!!! Fact is you have at least a 90% better chance of not ending up in the ICU if you are vaccinated. Why is it so hard to admit for you guys that the vaccine may actually be doing some good? None of us care whether you ever get it or not and I agree it's not the be-all and end-all but we're trying and at least at this point the numbers are in our favour.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by warpipe

Respond with this and then come back saying these numbers don't really matter!!! Fact is you have at least a 90% better chance of not ending up in the ICU if you are vaccinated. Why is it so hard to admit for you guys that the vaccine may actually be doing some good? None of us care whether you ever get it or not and I agree it's not the be-all and end-all but we're trying and at least at this point the numbers are in our favour.

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Myself personally I have 2 issues with this statement. I have never said I am an anti or that the "vaccine" might not be helping (we'll leave any long term issues out for now) and where you say you don't care if many get it or not, it is being forced on many free thinking individuals who are still not convinced that they personally can benefit from the jab. Forced, coercion whatever when you have to choose between a job you spend 20 years training and becoming adept at, losing your home because you cannot afford the mortgage.
These are not choices, these are chains being wrapped around a minority of free thinking citizens that are asking questions and being shut down.
It seems like government is dividing the population, and letting peer pressure, fines, or who knows what novel new ideas to come forward as long as it extends their agenda to stay in power.
John

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GloryHole

There are lies, damn lies, and statistics. Let's examine the statistics closely.

77.6% of the population that is eligible to receive the "vaccine" is considered fully vaxxed (2 or more doses) not 90%

5-19 yearolds who have about a 0.0004% chance of ending up in hospital or ICU make up 16% of the population, approximately 10% of them are fully vaxxed.

If we remove the 10% of the population that is vaxxed but was never at risk of a negative outcome from the 77.6% of the fully vaxxed we end up with a more accurate 67.6% demographic of who is fully vaxxed with the potential to end up in the hospital and ICU.

Another fun fact is that for the "vaccine" to be approved under it's emergency use application it had to meet a benchmark of atleast 50% efficacy which it clearly does not when you take the above factors into account, this is how and why they are deceiving us.
Attachment 43127

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was following a logical thought out post right up to the dumb meme that ignores all the stats and applies todays situation to the past.
You could make the same meme in comparison to all kinds of viruses over the years. Fact is mutations and new variants change the situation.
So yes, stats can be manipulated, but using them at the top of your post and then ignoring them at the bottom doesn't make much sense to me.

But at least your logical stats proved what I was saying. And that was all I was saying. Acknowledging the current stats doesn't harm your fight or opinion in regards to the vaccine.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FishHog

was following a logical thought out post right up to the dumb meme that ignores all the stats and applies todays situation to the past.
You could make the same meme in comparison to all kinds of viruses over the years. Fact is mutations and new variants change the situation.
So yes, stats can be manipulated, but using them at the top of your post and then ignoring them at the bottom doesn't make much sense to me.

But at least your logical stats proved what I was saying. And that was all I was saying. Acknowledging the current stats doesn't harm your fight or opinion in regards to the vaccine.

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That's too bad the truth meme offends you as it provides the timeline of the lies we've been told since the vaccine rollout began, not much I can do about that as you seem to be offended by just about everything. As for applying the meme to other viruses maybe you could enlighten me as to which ones it would apply to, not that it matters much while they all seem to be under control, a few examples to support your statement would be helpful. I'm not sure how you conclude that I ignored the stats at the bottom of the post, that statement makes about as much sense to me as this one. "But at least your logical stats proved what I was saying. And that was all I was saying. Acknowledging the current stats doesn't harm your fight or opinion in regards to the vaccine." When it clearly dilutes the 82% narrative you expressed in post #45 when applied to a per capita base.

"By my math your absolutely correct. I don’t see what the others see in those numbers

I’m not promoting to get vaxed if you don’t want to whatsoever but when it’s roughly a 50/50 split in the icu but 82% vaccinated there is clearly a benefit there

Please explain what you guys see differently."

I'm merely explaining to you what I see differently, those stats are fact and not opinion in regards to the vaccine efficacy, but why take my word for it when you can take it right from the horse's mouth itself. No need to be offended.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcvvnHqJsy4

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Originally Posted by impact

At the end of the day, it makes no difference if you are vaxxed or unvaxxed. The people with pre-existing conditions are most at risk.

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Exactly...the biggest risk of ending up in an ICU is if you have one or more cormobidity issues.

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Originally Posted by FishHog

I enjoy reading peoples opinions, and understand that they vary but I'm also a statistical guy and look at those also.

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I too enjoy the challenge of a good debate. You're one of the few on here that actually can debate with counter opinions and actually backs them up. It's greatly appreciated. I spent a few years on a debating team, one learns to be able to discuss both sides of an argument...it's very rewarding. Thanks for your efforts.

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Originally Posted by warpipe

Respond with this and then come back saying these numbers don't really matter!!! Fact is you have at least a 90% better chance of not ending up in the ICU if you are vaccinated. .

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First, the data I posted from Health Canada is to dispel the claims there are more unvaccinated in the ICU. That is not true. And what I said in the earlier post the vaccination status of the patient isn't relevant to the ICU staff (especially now) ...they don't care if you're vaccinated or not, just if you're infected.

Regardless of your vaccination status, you're at a higher risk of ending up in an ICU if you overweight, diabetic, have lung issues, heart issues etc etc.. Statistically there is a greater risk if unvaccinated, but for many of them, it's because they are from poor health /living conditions.

ie: The Indigenous / Inuit communities are about 1.6 million people. Stats show they have only about 1 million doses of vaccine given to date. So only between 50-60% of them are partially or fully vaccinated. On some reserves, it's a low as 30%. During the last wave, they represented about 46% of the ICU patients in Manitoba and Sask. Being flown in when their comorbidity issues become too hard to handle after they got the virus.

The comparison of vaxxed vs unvaxxed is a media / political wedge they are using to force 100% of the population vaccinated. Knowing full well that the science proves that to be unattainable, no matter how many lockdowns and restrictions they mandate. This week their forcing truck drivers, our supply chain, out of work regardless if they test negative or not...just if they are vaxxed with a vaccine that doesn't protect them from becoming infected anyway.
Ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by GloryHole

That's too bad the truth meme offends you as it provides the timeline of the lies we've been told since the vaccine rollout began, not much I can do about that as you seem to be offended by just about everything. As for applying the meme to other viruses maybe you could enlighten me as to which ones it would apply to, not that it matters much while they all seem to be under control, a few examples to support your statement would be helpful. I'm not sure how you conclude that I ignored the stats at the bottom of the post, that statement makes about as much sense to me as this one. "But at least your logical stats proved what I was saying. And that was all I was saying. Acknowledging the current stats doesn't harm your fight or opinion in regards to the vaccine." When it clearly dilutes the 82% narrative you expressed in post #45 when applied to a per capita base.

"By my math your absolutely correct. I don’t see what the others see in those numbers

I’m not promoting to get vaxed if you don’t want to whatsoever but when it’s roughly a 50/50 split in the icu but 82% vaccinated there is clearly a benefit there

Please explain what you guys see differently."

I'm merely explaining to you what I see differently, those stats are fact and not opinion in regards to the vaccine efficacy, but why take my word for it when you can take it right of the horse's mouth itself. No need to be offended.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcvvnHqJsy4

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The meme only brings comedic relief to the fact that information trickles in slowly and guidelines change with new and updated data. Lies? Not really. That leads to presumptions of conspiracy. It’s most likely the simplest answer. They are rolling with the punches on new and available data.

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Originally Posted by Birdbuff

The meme only brings comedic relief to the fact that information trickles in slowly and guidelines change with new and updated data. Lies? Not really. That leads to presumptions of conspiracy. It’s most likely the simplest answer. They are rolling with the punches on new and available data.

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To be honest I find very little comedic relief with the meme, It's really not that funny in my opinion, it provides an actual unfolding of the timeline of the narrative as it occurred. 100% lies, they are proven in the first 34 pages of the Pfizer pre clinical data ordered to be released by the court when the FDA sought to have that information concealed for 55 years and is only further re enforced by the drug company taking the unprecedented path of vaccinating the control group of the study which has lead to everyone scratching their head claiming, " I guess we'll never know if the vaccine saved any lives or not." Makes ya kinda wonder why we need 100% vaccination when we were initially told 65% to reach herd immunity wouldn't you agree? Two years in to this and the simplest answers aren't cutting it. Rolling with your narrative is only leading us into a holocaust. Did you not here the CEO of Pfyzer admit that they didn't work. WAKE UP!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GloryHole

I'm merely explaining to you what I see differently, those stats are fact and not opinion in regards to the vaccine efficacy, but why take my word for it when you can take it right from the horse's mouth itself. No need to be offended.

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you miss understood me. As I said I was following and even agreed with your well thought out post. But in my mind your blew it at the end with a dumb meme.
I most certainly was not offended. You used good counter stats to mine. (for the record my 82% came of the CTV news website, I didn't make it up but I'm OK working with your numbers).
Its just that you post good factual info, then add a unfactual cartoon at the bottom that in my mind degrades your otherwise well thought out post.

Sorry I didn't communicate that well. Seems you take my comments as an arguement, were in reality I'm just trying to discuss and learn like an educated adult. Nothing more.

I truly don't know why you think "I'm offended by just about everything". I don't even know how to reply to that as if is not remotely accurate. But clearly I'm not communicating very well if that is your take.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FishHog

you miss understood me. As I said I was following and even agreed with your well thought out post. But in my mind your blew it at the end with a dumb meme.
I most certainly was not offended. You used good counter stats to mine. (for the record my 82% came of the CTV news website, I didn't make it up but I'm OK working with your numbers).
Its just that you post good factual info, then add a unfactual cartoon at the bottom that in my mind degrades your otherwise well thought out post.

Sorry I didn't communicate that well. Seems you take my comments as an arguement, were in reality I'm just trying to discuss and learn like an educated adult. Nothing more.

I truly don't know why you think "I'm offended by just about everything". I don't even know how to reply to that as if is not remotely accurate. But clearly I'm not communicating very well if that is your take.

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Well I apologize for miss understanding your comments and hopefully we can leave it at that. I got my numbers from PHO and Stats Canada. The 82% that came from CTV includes single dose recipients of the "vaccine" with the fully vaxxed 77.6%. I left them out of the equation for simplicity as the don't really fit into either category and their relevance is still related in the pie charts. I will offer my opinion as to why single dose recipients haven't received their second dose and that is that a good number of them have suffered some sort of adverse reaction to the first dose.

All good with me, and appreciate the clarification of my faulty stats.