Power Outage

A couple days ago we experienced a power outage as the result of an ice storm - I got one of my two generators out to provide power to my refrigerator and freezer - when I put my generator away for an extended period I add stabilizer to the gas and fill the tank up - well I had a real hard time to get the generators to start - my son puts his away by just running his generator until it runs out of gas and stops - his generator started with the first pull - years ago that's how we did it - run the motor with the gas supply off - we did that with outboard motors too - now they tell you to use stabilizer and not cut off the gas supply - I'm wondering if leaving gas in the generator is the best thing to do -

I never ever leave gas in the carb for extended periods especially the ethanol blended crap. Run them dry or put a shut off tap in the fuel line and then drain the carb with the drain screw. If it doesn't have a drain screw, loosen the float bowl nut and it will drain that way. As for stabilizer, I tried that crap once and it made a jello mess that took a day of cleaning to get that crap out. The only thing I add to my gas is Seafoam, keeps crap from forming in the carbs. My 50 year old snowblower still starts on first try, and I'm not changing my method.

High octane gas with no ethanol plus running the carburetor dry does the trick on my dozen small engines I have around the yard that get seasonal use.
I also remove the spark plug and fog the engine on each before prolonged storage. Seems to help as well.

Get can Briggs and Stratton carb clean you can start any gas engine on it spray in air intake soon it will run on stale gas

high test with zero ethanol is left in the tank , and run with fuel supply closed until the carb is dry and motor stops. have done this with all my toys, Snow blower started first pull this week and is 15 years old, although I did do a trial start 24 hours before this blast of 40 cm as I didn't want to be left high and dry.
John

if your storing for less than a year, I wouldn't hesitate to store it full with nonethanol and treated fuel. Longer than that, I'd drain it.
Either way I'd drain the carb if your leaving it more than 6 months.
I use non ethanol fuel in anything that will sit for more than a couple months and treated with stabil.

My generator hardly gets used. In Dec we had a power outage for 23hrs. After 12, I got the generator out that hasn't run in 5 years. But I drained the fuel and oil storage sprayed the cylinder. Put fuel in it, waited a couple minutes for it to fill the carb and it fired on the first pull.

Drained the tank and carb, sprayed the cylinder again and put it back to bed. If its 10 years from now that I need it, I'm confident it will start right up again.

All fuel in Canada will contain ethanol this summer according to this from REPORT FROM PARLIAMENT on Cheryl Gallant website

https://cherylgallant.com/blog/2021/...ations-coming/

When I shut off my generator I do it by turning off the fuel that way the carb has been drained and since O always have the fuel tank full I add seas foam. I run the generator twice a year for at least an hour maybe 2 just to make sure it works well. Every two years I drain the fuel and put in my lawn mower or car and then I add new fuel to the generator.

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

All fuel in Canada will contain ethanol this summer according to this from REPORT FROM PARLIAMENT on Cheryl Gallant website

https://cherylgallant.com/blog/2021/...ations-coming/

When I shut off my generator I do it by turning off the fuel that way the carb has been drained and since O always have the fuel tank full I add seas foam. I run the generator twice a year for at least an hour maybe 2 just to make sure it works well. Every two years I drain the fuel and put in my lawn mower or car and then I add new fuel to the generator.

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Well that's not good news at all.
If that's the case I'll be getting it in the US if I can, or run and drain every time.

So out of curiosity for those who use Portable generators, who has a generator sub panel to plug into and distribute the power to key breakers or do you use extension cords?
What size of genny do you use ?
What do you power with it?

I use to just run extension cords one down stairs and plug the Sump, freezer, TV and computer another upstairs to the fridge and network. Now I have a generator panel.

When do you decide to pull the generator out? That the big question after 2 hours, 3 hours etc?

I have mine set up for both GW. The bypass panels are set up for only a 30 amp service. So put a 4 socket 120v outlet under that panel and wired it to be plugged into the generator outside (120v twist) That way I have an outlet for extension cords for freezers etc, while still having the power to basically 6 CCTs. (x1 204 for well)

I have a 5kw for that set-up.

https://i.imgur.com/ssgbb1hm.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/vx2vtDkm.jpg

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

So out of curiosity for those who use Portable generators, who has a generator sub panel to plug into and distribute the power to key breakers or do you use extension cords?
What size of genny do you use ?
What do you power with it?

I use to just run extension cords one down stairs and plug the Sump, freezer, TV and computer another upstairs to the fridge and network. Now I have a generator panel.

When do you decide to pull the generator out? That the big question after 2 hours, 3 hours etc?

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I do my gen is 8kw it’s my miller portable welder
Flip hydro off flip gen on

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...a64257d330.jpg

Yeah I have a 6 breaker panel in the house, right now I have to run the genny cord through the window maybe this year I will install the inlet plug outside so I don't have to that. The part has been setting in the garage for 3 years. All in good time.

I run a 3,000 watt Inverter generator with extension cords.
Clean power is crucial for the longevity of modern electronics.
I highly recommend that when you shop for a genny that it specs out at 3% THD (total harmonic distortion) or less.
I'm on Ottawa hydro and the downtime in past decades of history has been very short even in the rural area.
We are used to camping so half a day without electricity is no big deal at all.
The generator keeps the wife happy with the Y & R episodes......lol

I have tested my Coleman Generator on many electronics 2 servers and 3 computers I have let the generator run out of gas. I did some looking into this and spoke to some network companies all pretty much agreed that today electronics for a home can handle it if they couldn't thousands of computers would be blowing every day. Heck I plugged in my 2000 dollar TV not a problem

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Originally Posted by impact

I run a 3,000 watt Inverter generator with extension cords.
Clean power is crucial for the longevity of modern electronics.
I highly recommend that when you shop for a genny that it specs out at 3% THD (total harmonic distortion) or less.
I'm on Ottawa hydro and the downtime in past decades of history has been very short even in the rural area.
We are used to camping so half a day without electricity is no big deal at all.
The generator keeps the wife happy with the Y & R episodes......lol

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

I have tested my Coleman Generator on many electronics 2 servers and 3 computers I have let the generator run out of gas. I did some looking into this and spoke to some network companies all pretty much agreed that today electronics for a home can handle it if they couldn't thousands of computers would be blowing every day. Heck I plugged in my 2000 dollar TV not a problem

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Looking at the sine wave of 60 HZ at 20% THD that regular generators put out is a concern.
The duty cycle of an appliance works best with a uniform plus / minus wave.
There are filters available that you can plug your items into for added protection if you have an older style generator.
I have worked with clean power and electricity for decades. It is crucial in the medical field and basically everywhere else.

TV's at hunt camps have been blown up by crappy power. That much I know from experience.

Medical equipment most likely, home stuff unlikely otherwise with the brown outs we have in my area there would be a thousand tv's and computers blowing every year.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by impact

Looking at the sine wave of 60 HZ at 20% THD that regular generators put out is a concern.
The duty cycle of an appliance works best with a uniform plus / minus wave.
There are filters available that you can plug your items into for added protection if you have an older style generator.
I have worked with clean power and electricity for decades. It is crucial in the medical field and basically everywhere else.

TV's at hunt camps have been blown up by crappy power. That much I know from experience.

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Brownout is not THD.
Some reading material for you. Yes, my formal education does include electronics engineering.

"IEEE Standard 519-2014(opens in a new tab) advises on the permissible harmonic distortion limit for electronic equipment. As per the article, computers and allied equipment like programmable controllers typically require AC sources that have no more than a 5% harmonic voltage distortion factor, with the largest single harmonic being no more than 3% of the fundamental voltage."


https://generatorbible.com/blog/what-is-thd/

I might not be an electronics engineer but my best friend has his Masters Degree in Electrical. I think I will listen to my buddy first since he is probably much above you even being retired last year his house is a complete electronic shop the Workshop out side is a 1200 sq ft machine shop as well.

It's not going to hurt home systems

Quote:

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Originally Posted by impact

Brownout is not THD.
Some reading material for you. Yes, my formal education does include electronics engineering.

"IEEE Standard 519-2014(opens in a new tab) advises on the permissible harmonic distortion limit for electronic equipment. As per the article, computers and allied equipment like programmable controllers typically require AC sources that have no more than a 5% harmonic voltage distortion factor, with the largest single harmonic being no more than 3% of the fundamental voltage."


https://generatorbible.com/blog/what-is-thd/

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I have a transfer switch that runs the entire house. Don't even own a generator but I do more than 6 figures/year worth of business with a control and instrumentation electrician. Anytime i need one he tows over a 75 kw sound attenuated diesel genny and we plug the house in and if it's for less than 5 days it is gratis. Nice to have connections.

As for THD, Impact is correct in stating THD is different than a brownout. Brownout is simply voltage dip for some period of time. THD is waveform distortion caused by non-linear loads that make the sine wave fuzzy through either constructive or destructive interference at some multiple of the 60hz base frequency. That stated i have no idea how much THD is considered acceptable for today's home electronics but do know that THD as opposed to blowing something up often just shortens the life of the equipment. So running a HDTV outside its acceptable THD limit may reduce its usable life span from say 20 years to 10 years as an example although i would assume if your THD was too far out of spec it would cause an immediate/quick failure.

My experience in reducing THD is limited to making sure our plants run our motors using 18 pulse Variable Frequency Drives to ensure our harmonics are in the acceptable range.

"With proper operation and regular maintenance, high-quality power tools can last well beyond their warranties. Unfortunately, tools with advanced electronics and circuit boards—such as the Leister VARIMAT V2—also require the right power sources for maximum life and performance. "

"When using an AC-power commercial portable generator, the consistency of the electric current is specifically important. On most generators, this is listed as total harmonic distortion (THD). The higher the THD, the greater the fluctuations in current flow. If THD is too high, it will overheat critical components, and if it is too low, it will negatively impact performance."

"To further emphasize the point, Associated Power Technologies in their paper, Total Harmonic Distortion and Effects in Electrical Power Systems, states that, “Unwanted distortion can increase the current in power systems, which results in higher temperatures in neutral conductors and distribution transformers... If left unchecked, increased temperatures and interference can greatly shorten the life of electronic equipment and cause damage to power systems.”

When shopping for a commercial portable generator, most manufacturers will list the THD on the product specification table or on a label.

The IEEE Standard 519 recommends that computers and allied equipment, such as programmable controllers, use an AC power source with no more than 5% harmonic voltage distortion, with no single harmonic being more than 3%.

By making the investment in a clean, consistent power generator today, you will end up saving yourself time and money down the road.

http://blog.hy-techroof.com/bid/6135...ower-equipment

Back in the day I used to be responsible for wiring the Infantry bivouac areas. They would drop a 35kw genny and we ran all the cabling etc. Back then there was some weird things with a voltage that used to surprise the heck out of us.

One day got a trouble call the colour TV in the mess that wasn't working right. Stopped in and found that one the color jets on the picture tube was out. Further investigation found that there was almost a 6v 'floating' voltage to ground. Enough to screw up the TV ..mind you that was back in 1981.

The problem turned out to be the engineers that dropped the genny never established a good ground stake ( sandy soil).

The lesson: always drive in a ground stake and ground your generator frame. Especially with house wiring that has a neutral /ground connection. If you look at the stator windings in a generator you'll see the neutral line bolted to a ground lug.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

The lesson: always drive in a ground stake and ground your generator frame. Especially with house wiring that has a neutral /ground connection.

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You do bring up a good point to the conversation, Mike
More info from OSHA

Bonding Versus Grounding

Bonding and grounding are separate requirements for generators and other electrical distribution systems. Grounding means the connection, or the establishment of a connection, of an electric circuit or equipment to reference ground, which includes the generator’s frame. Bonding is the intentional connection between the grounded circuit conductor (neutral) and the grounding means for
the generator, which includes the generator’s
frame. Thus, effective bonding of the neutral
conductor to the generator’s frame is also a
concern for the safe use of the equipment. As
with grounding terminal connections, proper
bonding of the neutral terminal of a power
receptacle may be confirmed via testing by a
competent electrician with the correct equipment, and the ohmic resistance should measure near zero and must not be intermittent,
which indicates a loose connection.

https://www.osha.gov/sites/default/f..._generator.pdf

If this thread is about type of gas and seasonal machines, then I can say all I do is burn a hi-test, supposedly ethanol-free gas in those machines and I don't drain the carb or add gas treatment. I've had no problems with any of my machines, ATV, snowmachine, lawnmower, snowblower, ice auger, weed-whacker, chainsaw, outboards...you name it. The only time I use a regular octane gas is when I know for sure that I'll burn it all off before that useage is over with.