10th Amendment

You may be reading about the ruckus that has occurred because some information was leaked that the Supreme Court might over turn the abortion ruling that was made years ago - the issue that is being debated is wether the Supreme Court had the right to make this ruling in the first place - our 10th amendment to the constitution specifically limits the areas when the court has jurisdiction and when states (the people) have the right to make law - this is a very important issue because the whole intent of the constitution was to limit the government's power - we will see that happens -

" We the people ", whens the last time you heard that Joe.... Greed, politics, and the Liberals up here, and the Republicans threw that out the window a long time ago...

I do find it curious how eager politicians, generally white male politicians feel they can make life altering decisions for women. And when that child is born, completely abandon it and take zero responsibility in its care.

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Originally Posted by Cameracutter

I do find it curious how eager politicians, generally white male politicians feel they can make life altering decisions for women. And when that child is born, completely abandon it and take zero responsibility in its care.

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Let's expand on that one.

Unfortunately a large amount of politicians are white and male, yes. But in a free and democratic society, they are elected by their peers.

Their circumstance as to how they were elected, and their respective platforms has nothing to do with race or sex.

However, we also deem that our government should be the determining body for laws of the land. So decisions around said laws....will me made by the majority of politicians....if they are white and male, then that is merely a circumstance that was unrelated to the matter at hand.

I'm not sure how it is in the US, but here in Canada, our laws make it entirely the womans option once a child is conceived. A man is essentially the donor who has zero rights, but is held to account for the support and care of the child from 0-18.

The pending decision by the American Supreme Court has no effect on Canada other than to stir up an emotional debate that was settled politically, legally and socially decades ago despite small pockets of continuing and often vigorous disagreement sprinkled across the country. No point in having the discussion here.

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Originally Posted by Bluebulldog

Let's expand on that one.

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Maybe he is talking about the board that is making the decisions pretty sure it just contains 4 or 5 old guys lol.


Sent from my SM-G975W using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

The pending decision by the American Supreme Court has no effect on Canada other than to stir up an emotional debate that was settled politically, legally and socially decades ago despite small pockets of continuing and often vigorous disagreement sprinkled across the country. No point in having the discussion here.

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Just some food for thought - in Nazi Germany the killing of Jews was politically, legally and socially settled and no one dare discuss it at the time -

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Originally Posted by Bluebulldog

Let's expand on that one.

Unfortunately a large amount of politicians are white and male, yes. But in a free and democratic society, they are elected by their peers.

Their circumstance as to how they were elected, and their respective platforms has nothing to do with race or sex.

However, we also deem that our government should be the determining body for laws of the land. So decisions around said laws....will me made by the majority of politicians....if they are white and male, then that is merely a circumstance that was unrelated to the matter at hand.

I'm not sure how it is in the US, but here in Canada, our laws make it entirely the womans option once a child is conceived. A man is essentially the donor who has zero rights, but is held to account for the support and care of the child from 0-18.

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Why do you say that it is unfortunately that a large number of politicians are white and male? - after all if the majority of the population is white what would you expect -

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

The pending decision by the American Supreme Court has no effect on Canada other than to stir up an emotional debate that was settled politically, legally and socially decades ago despite small pockets of continuing and often vigorous disagreement sprinkled across the country. No point in having the discussion here.

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I don’t disagree with you. However it will be political fodder for the foreseeable future. I would imagine it will come up in the coming conservatives leadership debates.

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Originally Posted by JoePa

Just some food for thought - in Nazi Germany the killing of Jews was politically, legally and socially settled and no one dare discuss it at the time -

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By all means let’s set a course that takes us back to the 1930/40/50’s. Segregation, woman in the kitchen and all that.

And before anyone loses their mind the above statement should be taken as facetious.

I find the entire abortion discussion ridiculous. It’s is a women’s body, therefor it is a women’s choice.

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Originally Posted by Cameracutter

I find the entire abortion discussion ridiculous. It’s is a women’s body, therefor it is a women’s choice.

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Concur.

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Originally Posted by JoePa

Why do you say that it is unfortunately that a large number of politicians are white and male? - after all if the majority of the population is white what would you expect -

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Because JoePa,

They are the only group in North America who are now singled out by their race and sex.

It is unfortunate that in our "woke" society, we have now gone full stupid, and choose to play identity politics with only one identifiable group. Wade into any debate, with a diverse section of society, and when things become a disagreement, this group is the only one who will have it's position degraded and devalued based on race and sex....

However, being democratically elected, means that by and large, society put them there....it's a dichotomy.

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Originally Posted by Cameracutter

I don’t disagree with you. However it will be political fodder for the foreseeable future. I would imagine it will come up in the coming conservatives leadership debates.

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The issue always comes up driven by anti-choice zealots who refuse to accept that Canadian society made its decisions on the matter decades ago. Either way the pending decision by the U.S. Supreme Court while perhaps a discussion point will have no influence on Canadian policy toward women making their own decision whether to carry a fetus to term.

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

The pending decision by the American Supreme Court has no effect on Canada other than to stir up an emotional debate that was settled politically, legally and socially decades ago despite small pockets of continuing and often vigorous disagreement sprinkled across the country. No point in having the discussion here.

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There is also no harm in having a respectful discussion here, for those who wish to have it. It’s as easy as not clicking the link.

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Originally Posted by 73hunter

There is also no harm in having a respectful discussion here, for those who wish to have it. It’s as easy as not clicking the link.

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A respectful discussion on the issue is unlikely once people start dragging out comparisons to the Holocaust and comparing Canada to Nazi Germany.

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Originally Posted by JoePa

You may be reading about the ruckus that has occurred because some information was leaked that the Supreme Court might over turn the abortion ruling that was made years ago - the issue that is being debated is wether the Supreme Court had the right to make this ruling in the first place - our 10th amendment to the constitution specifically limits the areas when the court has jurisdiction and when states (the people) have the right to make law - this is a very important issue because the whole intent of the constitution was to limit the government's power - we will see that happens -

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Well politically in your country Joe this is a very importent issue and by default as its mostly REPRUBLICAN/CONSERVATIVES who push the issue on abortion by
pure belief or as a wedge issue it becomes important in Canada as well. The Supreme Court in the USA was stacked for this very issue and now that the Justices are paying back their political masters this might all backfire on those same masters who pushed the issue.

Apparently 75% of Americans were content with the present law but social conservatives both there and here want to push their idea's on others. There is already a backlash in the USA and a very STRANGE SILENCE FROM MOST REPUBLICANS INCLUDING THE EX PRESIDENT. I guess one should be careful what one asks for in case you get it.

I believe that this stunt played out by social conservatives will cost them big time in the upcoming elections. Also any social conservatives in Canada running for the upcoming leadership had better tread very lightly on this issue as its one that can easily cost an election.

There is no doubt that this subject is a complex one - saying that 75% of Americans are content with the present law is not correct - here's some facts - it is one thing to consider abortion in the first trimester (1 to 3 months) and an abortion in the third trimester (7 to 9 months) - from what I have read - 61% of Americans support abortion in all or most cases when in the first trimester but less than 10% support it when in the third trimester - so you see it isn't an issue wether you either support it or not - it is an issue of when - 80% of Americans think that an abortion should be illegal in most or all cases when in the third trimester - yes 80% -

There is such a thing as a partial birth abortion where the baby is killed while partially out of the birth channel - the vast majority of people think this is out and out murder - should people just sit back and let it happen

The Supreme Court had no business getting itself involved with this issue based on the 10th Amendment to our constitution - this should be an issue that is left up to the states where the people of each state can dictate if and when an abortion can be considered legal - if the Supreme Court overturnes Roe v Wade then this will happen and the states can than dictate what is legal and what is not - the people can decide -

Now me address this comment about Nazi Germany - when you see pictures of dumpsters filled with dead babies that were aborted in the third trimester - some on the verge of being born - and compare this to pictures of the bodies of Jews discovered in the prison camps you can't help but see some similarity - it is easy to look away and not think about the subject - out of sight out of mind - but this is happening in your country and in mine - it is pure evil - we always talk about the woman's right - but about the baby's right

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Originally Posted by JoePa

The Supreme Court had no business getting itself involved with this issue based on the 10th Amendment to our constitution - this should be an issue that is left up to the states where the people of each state can dictate if and when an abortion can be considered legal - if the Supreme Court overturnes Roe v Wade then this will happen and the states can than dictate what is legal and what is not - the people can decide -

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This proves the entire matter has nothing to do with saving anything but is a legal process argument about which level of government determines the extent to which women can control their own reproductive systems. Some states will protect a woman's right to choose while others will pass laws condemning women to carry fetuses to term regardless whether the fertilized mass of cells is the result of carelessness, wanton disregard, rape or incest.

Abortion isn't morally wrong in the eyes of the American legal system as the ruling is about who gets to decide whether it is done or not.

Typical us vs. them argument where both sides think that they are right and believe that those that don’t agree with them are nuts. It’s 2022 and the human race still can’t get along with each other and where narcissistic leaders think that it’s ok to invade other countries. Sorry for the rant… it’s Friday and I’m tired.

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Originally Posted by JoePa

There is no doubt that this subject is a complex one - saying that 75% of Americans are content with the present law is not correct - here's some facts - it is one thing to consider abortion in the first trimester (1 to 3 months) and an abortion in the third trimester (7 to 9 months) - from what I have read - 61% of Americans support abortion in all or most cases when in the first trimester but less than 10% support it when in the third trimester - so you see it isn't an issue wether you either support it or not - it is an issue of when - 80% of Americans think that an abortion should be illegal in most or all cases when in the third trimester - yes 80% -

There is such a thing as a partial birth abortion where the baby is killed while partially out of the birth channel - the vast majority of people think this is out and out murder - should people just sit back and let it happen

The Supreme Court had no business getting itself involved with this issue based on the 10th Amendment to our constitution - this should be an issue that is left up to the states where the people of each state can dictate if and when an abortion can be considered legal - if the Supreme Court overturnes Roe v Wade then this will happen and the states can than dictate what is legal and what is not - the people can decide -

Now me address this comment about Nazi Germany - when you see pictures of dumpsters filled with dead babies that were aborted in the third trimester - some on the verge of being born - and compare this to pictures of the bodies of Jews discovered in the prison camps you can't help but see some similarity - it is easy to look away and not think about the subject - out of sight out of mind - but this is happening in your country and in mine - it is pure evil - we always talk about the woman's right - but about the baby's right

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Joe…you lost me at “dumpsters full of dead babies”.

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Originally Posted by JoePa

The Supreme Court had no business getting itself involved with this issue based on the 10th Amendment to our constitution - this should be an issue that is left up to the states where the people of each state can dictate if and when an abortion can be considered legal - if the Supreme Court overturnes Roe v Wade then this will happen and the states can than dictate what is legal and what is not - the people can decide -

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So the individual states should “dictate” what women can and can’t do to their own body? Sounds a lot like communism to me. Once again, and strictly my opinion, and I’m not an American, the decisions about whether to have an abortion or not should be left to the woman to decide.

The real issue in context we should be discussing here is how dirty politics are played. Just like that, over night, the complete and total failure of the Biden regime, massive inflation, bogus and draconian covid mandates, grooming of children by Disney and public schools, growing mrna jab side effects, soaring crime, etc. are forgotten about because of this leaked draft decision. Think about it. They doxxed the private addresses of supreme court justices.

We just keep getting played. "Sexual liberation" is political control.

I believe the discussion should be happening along these lines, not a debate on the merits or evils of abortion -- that's a separate discussion.

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Originally Posted by Cameracutter

So the individual states should “dictate” what women can and can’t do to their own body? Sounds a lot like communism to me. Once again, and strictly my opinion, and I’m not an American, the decisions about whether to have an abortion or not should be left to the woman to decide.

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When during the 9 month pregnancy would You consider replacing the right of a woman to decide about aborting a fetus-with the right of the unborn child to live?

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Originally Posted by gbk

When during the 9 month pregnancy would You consider replacing the right of a woman to decide about aborting a fetus-with the right of the unborn child to live?

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That decision would require thinking, science, ethics and the recognition that the unborn baby is a human being, those don't fit into some people's viewpoints and moral framework. It is easier for them to be dogmatic and ignore the fact a baby is being killed when it could have been born safely or some tool, I often say weapon since it fits the definition of a tool causing someone harm, is used to stab or kill and often dismember a baby that is unable to scream in pain, although the evidence they experience pain, pleasure and enjoy music is fact. Planned Parenthood for example has been caught deliberately ignoring or "terminating" a "fetus" that was surviving outside the womb post abortion. Hence groups like "Abortion Survivors" https://abortionsurvivors.org/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRMBX5BQ7so


The "CHOICE" is to avoid responsibility and to end the life of a baby.

P.S.
Ethics. A bit off topic so I won't highlight it but Jordan Peterson and ethics.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcA5TotAkhs

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Originally Posted by gbk

When during the 9 month pregnancy would You consider replacing the right of a woman to decide about aborting a fetus-with the right of the unborn child to live?

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Why would I decide anything? It’s the woman who carries the fetus. Men have no place in deciding anything on this.

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Originally Posted by gbk

When during the 9 month pregnancy would You consider replacing the right of a woman to decide about aborting a fetus-with the right of the unborn child to live?

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This enters into the realm of fetal viability. Until which time the fetus can survive outside of the woman's physical system it is not life.

Roe v. Wade addressed this by putting limits on second and third trimester abortions.

But it's not enough to satisfy the nuts who believe the ridiculous concept that life begins at conception and that every fetus must be carried to term regardless.

The question is - did the Supreme Court have the right to make any decision in this matter - many say that it didn't and it violated the 10th Amendment - so that is where we are today - if Roe v Wade is overturned then it will be up to the states to determine what is legal and what is not - the people thru their state legislatures will then make the decision - that is how a democracy works - I think if this happens many states will put restrictions as to when an abortion is legal - third trimester abortions will be severely restricted

Now we get to the moral question - some people think that abortions kill a human life - they think it is murder - these people feel that they can't just sit by and let this happen without trying to stop or restrict it - some people think that a baby or fetus is just a blob of cells and not a human and thus have no problem of doing away with it - so they try to protect this action - so the people of a state will decide - if it goes against a person's feelings they can got to another state - if by chance all states put restrictions on abortion then that's the way it is - there's an old saying about keeping your fingers crossed - in this case it is keeping your legs crossed - Joe that's a good one

Rape, incest, or the mothers life is in jeopardy is the only grounds a abortion should be preformed on. Otherwise the child should be carried full term and put up for adoption if the parents are unwilling to look after it. Alot of good people would love the chance to adopt a child. If you want to fool around you should have the consequences to deal with it and not have the tax payers pay for ones abortion.

Exactly Tigboy . Thousands ++ of people are wanting to adopt.

"This is the most beautiful picture on social media right now. This is the face of a 19-week-old unborn child. Not a seed, a glob of cells, or a fetus.... but a precious tiny human in all its perfection. A miracle created by God, made in His image, by His design. " quote rt

https://imgur.com/a/jGI0Th8

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Originally Posted by Tigboy 304

Rape, incest, or the mothers life is in jeopardy is the only grounds a abortion should be preformed on. Otherwise the child should be carried full term and put up for adoption if the parents are unwilling to look after it. Alot of good people would love the chance to adopt a child. If you want to fool around you should have the consequences to deal with it and not have the tax payers pay for ones abortion.

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This I can agree with.

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Originally Posted by Tigboy 304

Rape, incest, or the mothers life is in jeopardy is the only grounds a abortion should be preformed on. Otherwise the child should be carried full term and put up for adoption if the parents are unwilling to look after it. Alot of good people would love the chance to adopt a child. If you want to fool around you should have the consequences to deal with it and not have the tax payers pay for ones abortion.

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Given that the original post was about US law/courts, the tax payer isn’t involved. Furthermore those who feel so strongly that they would make laws governing what woman must do with their bodies if they become pregnant better pony up the cash to support that woman and that child. Unfortunately, once born they seem to abandon both the mother and the child and claim it’s not there problem.

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Originally Posted by Cameracutter

Given that the original post was about US law/courts, the tax payer isn’t involved. Furthermore those who feel so strongly that they would make laws governing what woman must do with their bodies if they become pregnant better pony up the cash to support that woman and that child. Unfortunately, once born they seem to abandon both the mother and the child and claim it’s not there problem.

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I was waiting for the LEFT chime in. My answer keep trying,for those who support a womans choice to choose on the grounds of my body my choice like our present liberal government. Too bad you didn't think of my body my choice when it came to receiving covid Inoculations to keep your job with the federal government or traveling freely by all modes of travel with in the country. I guess a person's right to choose on the grounds of my body my choice only applies to the left when it fits their narrative. Cheers.

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Originally Posted by Tigboy 304

I was waiting for the LEFT chime in. My answer keep trying,for those who support a womans choice to choose on the grounds of my body my choice like our present liberal government. Too bad you didn't think of my body my choice when it came to receiving covid Inoculations to keep your job with the federal government or traveling freely by all modes of travel with in the country. I guess a person's right to choose on the grounds of my body my choice only applies to the left when it fits their narrative. Cheers.

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So glad to see that you have labeled me as left. Where would we be without labeling?

I would encourage you to stay on point. Joe started this, and is American if I’m correct. Currently all Canadian political parties have steered clear of this subject, other then a few backbenchers.

As to you point on Covid vaccinations, you have the freedom to get or not. However not getting has had some restrictions associated with it. Although as we come out the other end of this pandemic, which is now endemic, those restrictions are slowly evolving.

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Originally Posted by Tigboy 304

Rape, incest, or the mothers life is in jeopardy is the only grounds a abortion should be preformed on. Otherwise the child should be carried full term and put up for adoption if the parents are unwilling to look after it. Alot of good people would love the chance to adopt a child. If you want to fool around you should have the consequences to deal with it and not have the tax payers pay for ones abortion.

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Why rape? If you're keen to have women squeeze out kids against their will so they can be put up for adoption then it shouldn't matter if the conception was also against their will.

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

Why rape? If you're keen to have women squeeze out kids against their will so they can be put up for adoption then it shouldn't matter if the conception was also against their will.

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Wow really, ask yourself.

The leaking of the draft document is much more an act of "insurrection" or "threat to democracy" than a groovy dude with a horn helmet meandering around the capital.

Things like this always happen to strategically distract.

The rule of law is basically dead in the U.S. Leftist mobs can intimidate judges outside their homes (with support from the white house), and parents who object to radical sexual politics being pushed on 7 year olds are being put under federal investigation for disagreeing with a school board.

The left can and will intimidate/threaten its political opponents and face no consequences because they own the legal apparatus and the media.

The right needs to pay attention and understand that the side that wants to win at all costs will always defeat the side that just wants to be left alone.

And while we're all distracted by this, they will send another 40 billion in dirty money to get laundered by their pals in Ukraine. Don't forget 10% for the big guy.

Well let me tell you something - when you deal with a subject like this you need to realize that there is a fundamental difference in what people believe - some think that the world including humans are just a result of some unexplained accident - humans if allowed just go through this life without lasting purpose and that's it - whereas some believe that there is a God and every human life is precious and has an immortal soul with a future - when the subject of abortion comes up these differences come into play strongly -

I think if everyone would read books written by nurses who worked in abortion clinics and see some of the pictures showing in-house dumpsters filled to the top with aborted babies - many looking like babies you would take home from a hospital - people would have to realize that something is wrong - you can't help but make a comparison to the pictures of bodies in the Nazi prison camps - it is a unpleasant subject but it is going on and what do you do - turn your head and look away - pretend it isn't happening - out of sight out of mind - I think future generations will look back and wonder how such a thing was allowed to happen just as we criticize the German population for doing nothing - we kill babies now - are retarded people next - then old people - I saw something last night on the news about Canada paying for poor people who can't take care of themselves to kill themselves - what is next

Bushwhacker you hit the nail on the head - things are really getting bad - but don't forget deep down inside there is a strong armed right who will only tolerate so much - then the shooting starts - people will take the law in their own hands - all that is needed is some really hard times - like food shortages or long term power outages or an economic melt down

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Originally Posted by Tigboy 304

Wow really, ask yourself.

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My answer is regardless of circumstances a woman should have the right to terminate her pregnancy.

Now answer the question. Why do you give a pass to women who've been raped? Isn't all life sacred to the so-call pro-lifers?

Additionally, what is the proof you require to establish rape? Allegation, affidavit, charges, conviction?

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

My answer is regardless of circumstances a woman should have the right to terminate her pregnancy.

Now answer the question. Why do you give a pass to women who've been raped? Isn't all life sacred to the so-call pro-lifers?

Additionally, what is the proof you require to establish rape? Allegation, affidavit, charges, conviction?

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Sure I can spell it out so possibly even the LEFT can comprehend. With every action in life there are repercussions, drinking and driving for instance one may get lucky and not get caught or quite possibly one may get caught or even worse may kill a innocent human being God forbid. Just like a woman doing the horizontal shuffle on her own free will. She may or may not get pregnant and if by chance she does that was her choice to engage such actions. Even when a method of birth control is used they are not fool proof as we all know or should know. So in instance a woman should bear the consequences of her actions if one doesn't want to get pregnant there is such a thing called abstinence. Now to answer your question on rape that would be against a woman's free will and if she by chance was to become pregnant after following such a horrible and tragic event she should have every right to terminate the pregnancy as she was not a will party to the actions and therefore not have to carry the pregnancy to term. To answer your last question there are already proper channels and procedures to determine and take if a woman was to find themselves in that awful situation. Have a wonderful day.

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Originally Posted by Tigboy 304

Sure I can spell it out so possibly even the LEFT can comprehend. With every action in life there are repercussions, drinking and driving for instance one may get lucky and not get caught or quite possibly one may get caught or even worse may kill a innocent human being God forbid. Just like a woman doing the horizontal shuffle on her own free will. She may or may not get pregnant and if by chance she does that was her choice to engage such actions. Even when a method of birth control is used they are not fool proof as we all know or should know. So in instance a woman should bear the consequences of her actions if one doesn't want to get pregnant there is such a thing called abstinence. Now to answer your question on rape that would be against a woman's free will and if she by chance was to become pregnant after following such a horrible and tragic event she should have every right to terminate the pregnancy as she was not a will party to the actions and therefore not have to carry the pregnancy to term. To answer your last question there are already proper channels and procedures to determine and take if a woman was to find themselves in that awful situation. Have a wonderful day.

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So your position isn't pro-life but driven by a desire to punish women who do not practice complete abstinence. Got it.

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

So your position isn't pro-life but driven by a desire to punish women who do not practice complete abstinence. Got it.

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Sure if you say so.

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Originally Posted by Tigboy 304

Sure I can spell it out so possibly even the LEFT can comprehend. With every action in life there are repercussions, drinking and driving for instance one may get lucky and not get caught or quite possibly one may get caught or even worse may kill a innocent human being God forbid.

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Kind of like getting vaccinated or choosing not to get vaccinated.

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Originally Posted by Cameracutter

Kind of like getting vaccinated or choosing not to get vaccinated.

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Really??-deciding about one's own health and well being(up to including death)- versus deciding about SOMEONE else's death?
WOW

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Originally Posted by JoePa

You may be reading about the ruckus that has occurred because some information was leaked that the Supreme Court might over turn the abortion ruling that was made years ago - the issue that is being debated is wether the Supreme Court had the right to make this ruling in the first place - our 10th amendment to the constitution specifically limits the areas when the court has jurisdiction and when states (the people) have the right to make law - this is a very important issue because the whole intent of the constitution was to limit the government's power - we will see that happens -

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What ever the intent of the Republican party to stack the Supreme Court with social conservatives who would go down this path, the fruits of it will now be harvested. Hopefully it has spurred the Democrats to mobilize and the Republicans will loose in the mid term elections big time.

Trying to circumvent the electoral process and the will of the people has its consequences.

going to close this thread as per rule
2. Controversial, religious or political threads deemed inappropriate or needlessly provocative will be removed without warning.

going to close this thread as per rule
2. Controversial, religious or political threads deemed inappropriate or needlessly provocative will be removed without warning.