Unmaintained roads

Our group Moose hunts in area 21 a. We set up camp approximately 3 km off of Main Road. The road is an old logging road . as you turn off the main road to head to our camp. There is a small lake on the right. it has approximately a 3 foot culvert block by beavers. For the last three years, the road in that time has washed out about 1 foot deep and 20 feet long. Approximately 1 km from that on a long sloping hill the last three years on heavy rains the water runs down the long grade and is washing the road away. The last two years we have dug several small trenches along the slope to help detour the water before it can get to the washout area. Down the road from this there is a river. The road two years ago while we were camped there washed out against the bridge abutment about 6 foot deep, 3 foot wide and 6 feet long. Locals I believe filled the washed out Road with rocks about 3/4 full .then on the other side of where we camp there is a washout from a blocked culvert (beavers )about 5 foot deep by 75 Long for the last five years or six. The logging road from where you turn off the main road for the next approximately 22 km has not been maintained for at least the last five years and more. The road has slowly been growing in on the sides. Last year the game warden checked us out at the camp. I asked if we can shoot a moose on the road. He said he would lay charges if that happened. He also agreed that the road is not maintained. My question is can you shoot a moose on a unmaintained Road. Anywhere I have read you can. He says you cannot. Does someone out there have any information about this subject?

The stupid answer: It depends.

Unfortunately it will fall the the CO, and what kind of day he's having. However, having said that. If the road is not designated by the municipality, and does not appear as a named road on maps, nor is it plowed by a works department, or maintained by them, then it meets the definition of an unmaintained road.

Lot's of us grouse hunt from these same "roads". I once stood at roadside with an overzealous OPP officer who pulled up, checked my PAL, and then said he could give a $600 fine and seize my gun for hunting. At which point I directed him back to where the road turned off the main service road, and the sign that said " Unmaintained road - use at own risk".

From my understanding the definition of a maintained or unmaintained road doesn't lie in the condition of the road but the classification as described buy the governing body. May have to contact the the governing authority of the area and ask for the classification.

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Originally Posted by Ralphy

Our group Moose hunts in area 21 a. We set up camp approximately 3 km off of Main Road. The road is an old logging road . as you turn off the main road to head to our camp. There is a small lake on the right. it has approximately a 3 foot culvert block by beavers. For the last three years, the road in that time has washed out about 1 foot deep and 20 feet long. Approximately 1 km from that on a long sloping hill the last three years on heavy rains the water runs down the long grade and is washing the road away. The last two years we have dug several small trenches along the slope to help detour the water before it can get to the washout area. Down the road from this there is a river. The road two years ago while we were camped there washed out against the bridge abutment about 6 foot deep, 3 foot wide and 6 feet long. Locals I believe filled the washed out Road with rocks about 3/4 full .then on the other side of where we camp there is a washout from a blocked culvert (beavers )about 5 foot deep by 75 Long for the last five years or six. The logging road from where you turn off the main road for the next approximately 22 km has not been maintained for at least the last five years and more. The road has slowly been growing in on the sides. Last year the game warden checked us out at the camp. I asked if we can shoot a moose on the road. He said he would lay charges if that happened. He also agreed that the road is not maintained. My question is can you shoot a moose on a unmaintained Road. Anywhere I have read you can. He says you cannot. Does someone out there have any information about this subject?

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The answer he gave you is the "stock answer" he'd give anyone anywhere who asked. He knew full well that if he laid a charge under your specific instance that if you attended court and fought the charge,he'd definitely lose,he'd look like an idiot,so,he would never tell you that. What FFF said is right on the money. It depends on whether the road is by definition "maintained" by a municipality like a regulated township,county or region. Abandoned logging roads,trails,paths don't fall within that category anywhere in Ontario,however,in the southern part of the province,we must be cognizant that some trails and paths are municipal easements and in some cases,fall under the municipal bylaws,therefore,under the FWCA.

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Originally Posted by Ralphy

Our group Moose hunts in area 21 a. We set up camp approximately 3 km off of Main Road. The road is an old logging road . as you turn off the main road to head to our camp. There is a small lake on the right. it has approximately a 3 foot culvert block by beavers. For the last three years, the road in that time has washed out about 1 foot deep and 20 feet long. Approximately 1 km from that on a long sloping hill the last three years on heavy rains the water runs down the long grade and is washing the road away. The last two years we have dug several small trenches along the slope to help detour the water before it can get to the washout area. Down the road from this there is a river. The road two years ago while we were camped there washed out against the bridge abutment about 6 foot deep, 3 foot wide and 6 feet long. Locals I believe filled the washed out Road with rocks about 3/4 full .then on the other side of where we camp there is a washout from a blocked culvert (beavers )about 5 foot deep by 75 Long for the last five years or six. The logging road from where you turn off the main road for the next approximately 22 km has not been maintained for at least the last five years and more. The road has slowly been growing in on the sides. Last year the game warden checked us out at the camp. I asked if we can shoot a moose on the road. He said he would lay charges if that happened. He also agreed that the road is not maintained. My question is can you shoot a moose on a unmaintained Road. Anywhere I have read you can. He says you cannot. Does someone out there have any information about this subject?

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If the road you describe is an abandoned logging road, the CO is wrong. We have been through all this up in our area in 12. The main road that leads to several logging roads into cut blocks is maintained. Logging trucks use that road and it is very well maintained. The laws apply to those roads..Lots of abandoned roads leading into cuts are not maintained and there is no problem shooting there. We have shot a lot of moose from and on those roads, been checked by the COs pretty much every year, with no issues. An outfitter buddy checked this all out when the laws changed years ago. If it were me, I’d contact the MNR office responsible for the area, contact a supervisor and get names etc. Get his/her interpretation. You can also send this information to the MNR head office in Peterborough, and get clarification. Keep any emails etc you may get so you can address it with a CO, should the need arise.

The term maintained roads is no longer used in the regulations.

Now it is any road or trail that anyone may by travelling on. Be it with an ATV or walking.

General Regulations
Summary of Firearms Restrictions Related to Roads and Trails
You must not shoot from or across a right of way for public vehicular traffic anywhere in Ontario.
You must not possess a loaded firearm on or near a right of way for public vehicular traffic in most of Southern Ontario.
You must not possess a loaded firearm on or near a right of way for public vehicular traffic during an open gun season for deer or elk in large portions of Central and Northwestern Ontario.
Note: A right of way for public vehicular traffic includes a road or trail open to public use by vehicle traffic. Please refer to the table below for the specific restrictions and applicable geographic areas.
Restrictions
Applicable Geographic Areas
No discharge of fire- arms from or across the travelled portion of a right of way for public vehicular traffic
All of Ontario
You must not possess a loaded firearm on or within 8 metres of the travelled portion of a right of way for public vehicular traffic (or its fenceline where one exists)
Brant, Bruce, Chatham-Kent, Dufferin, Durham, Elgin, Essex (except the single-tier municipality of Pelee), Frontenac (except the lower-tier municipalities of Central and North Frontenac), Grey, Haldimand, Halton, Hamilton, Hastings (except the lower-tier municipalities of Bancroft, Carlow/Mayo, Deseronto, Faraday, Hastings Highlands, Limerick, Madoc, Marmora and Lake, Tudor and Cashel and Wollaston), Huron, Kawartha Lakes, Lambton, Lanark, Leeds and Grenville, Lennox and Addington (except the lower-tier municipality of Addington Highlands), Middlesex, Niagara, Norfolk, Northumberland, Ottawa, Oxford, Peel, Perth, Peterborough (except the lower-tier municipalities of Galway- Cavendish-Harvey and North Kawartha), Prescott and Russell, Prince Edward, Simcoe, Stormont, Dundas and Glengarry, Toronto, Waterloo, Wellington, York.
You must not possess a loaded firearm on or within 8 metres of the travelled portion of a right of way for public vehicular traffic (or its fenceline where one exists) during an open gun season for deer or elk
Lower-tier municipalities of Central and North Frontenac in the geographic
area of Frontenac, Haliburton, lower-tier municipalities of Bancroft, Carlow/ Mayo, Deseronto, Faraday, Highlands, Limerick, Madoc, Marmora and Lake, Tudor and Cashel and Wollaston in the geographic area of Hastings, the lower- tier municipality of Addington Highlands in the geographic area of Lennox and Addington, Muskoka, the lower-tier municipalities Galway-Cavendish-Harvey and North Kawartha in the geographic municipality of Peterborough, Renfrew, the single-tier municipalities of Alberton, Chapple, Dawson, Emo, Fort Frances, La Vallee, Morley, Rainy River and the geographic townships of Morson, McCrosson, Tovell, Dance (excluding Lyons Bay Road and Lost Creek Road), Kingsford (excluding Fleming Road), Miscampbell (excluding Boffin Road), Pratt, Nelles, Spohn and Sutherland all within the Territorial District of Rainy River, and the single-tier municipality of Kenora, geographic townships of Boys, Ewart, Forgie, Gidley, Glass, Gundy, Kirkup, Pellatt and the unorganized area south and east of the geographic township of Boys township, south of the geographic township of Pellatt and west of the single-tier municipality of Kenora to the shore of Lake of the Woods all within the Territorial District of Kenora.
Hunting Regulations Summary 2022 • 2023

Ive heard this a few times from others not a co directly to me.
A CO say if the roads straight I wont charge you but if your shooting and there is a bend I will.
Makes zero sense to me at all, like to get it in writing from a local co up there cause be a easy one to fight in court its either legal or not.

I took the advice to contact the Mnr. I talked to a CEO officer out of the Geraldton field office asking about unmaintained roads. The co officer said you should not be thinking of it is maintained or maintained . He said if you can drive your truck on the road you should not be discharging your firearm. Shooting on or across the road. You could be charged with reckless discharge of a firearm or hunting on the roadway. He also said you could contact the forestry companies and get information on which roads are or not maintained Or working on. Now I’m thinking why would I contact the forestry when he said if you could drive on the road you should not be Shooting on or across a roadway

Ralphy

"Now I’m thinking why would I contact the forestry when he said if you could drive on the road you should not be Shooting on or across a roadway"

Would you not want to know where workers might be working off the road but easily in gun range? In case your hunting endangered them.

When I hunted up there decades ago part of scouting was to pop into a forestry company office, maybe with a few Timmies and Coffee and start up a friendly chat with the local foresters and workers.

That just might if your ATTITUDE was real good lead to a fella getting access to a few Forestry Maps, with their cuts over the last few years and a good indication where a Southern slicker might up their chances of getting a MOOSE.

They also could tell you where NOT TO GO as these area's are POSTED when active lumber operations are in place.

The forest companies also now tear up culverts after operations to restrict access to area's around tourists camps and other sensitive areas.

What the CO told you was bang on and maybe you need to read between the lines.

The really rough 20km unmaintained and winding bush road leading to the parking/unloading point to get back into our camp used to be worth your life to travel during the deer and moose hunt if going for groceries or a beer run into the nearest town until hitting the main highway because every local hunter would form the pumpkin picket line every 100M along that road. How no one got hurt in all those years was nothing short of a miracle with all the moose and deer shot along that road over the years.

Edit: After making a few phone calls,I'm sure I can safely say that no one has ever been warned or charged while hunting on the roads into our camp. These are unmaintained bush roads running east from Powassan to the north west corner of Algonquin Park. All are partially grown over and washed out in places.

I think for a group moose hunting in a new area, going to The forestry for maps and information is a great idea. For a group such as ours who have been hunting in this area for 15 years I don’t think it is necessary. The CEO also said not to think of the roads as maintained or Unmaintained, so why go to the forestry or Township For information on maintained or unmaintained roads. The CEO said if you can drive on the road you should not shoot from or across it. I also think that 99.9% of hunters have enough brains not to hunt areas being logged. Three years ago while bow hunting and 15 a a few of us drove into an area being log and watch the workers the cut was not posted. Last year and 21a we were in a cut Watching the workers. It also was not posted.

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Originally Posted by Ralphy

I think for a group moose hunting in a new area, going to The forestry for maps and information is a great idea. For a group such as ours who have been hunting in this area for 15 years I don’t think it is necessary. The CEO also said not to think of the roads as maintained or Unmaintained, so why go to the forestry or Township For information on maintained or unmaintained roads. The CEO said if you can drive on the road you should not shoot from or across it. I also think that 99.9% of hunters have enough brains not to hunt areas being logged. Three years ago while bow hunting and 15 a a few of us drove into an area being log and watch the workers the cut was not posted. Last year and 21a we were in a cut Watching the workers. It also was not posted.

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Not many logging operations post the blocks any more. To do that, it has to be included in their harvest plans, submitted to the MNRF. Most loggers hunt themselves so they leave the block open. As far as shooting from an old logging road, you will get different interpretations depending on the CO. We have never had an issue in some 50 years of hunting cuts. Just stay away from the main roads.

From a law enforcement perspective, there are 2 concerns regarding shooting from/across roads to be aware of:
1) careless hunting e.g. discharging a fireman in a manner that poses a risk to yourself or others. Shooting down a road with a blind corner comes to mind. Remember, even if the road is un-maintained, you could still be charged with careless hunting if the circumstances warrant.

2) Un-maintained roads - section 63. (1) of Ontario Regulation 665/98… speaks to the unlawfulness of shooting in or across a right of way used for vehicular traffic. Subsection 63.(3) clarifies that the above only applies when the road is maintained.

So, under the right circumstances, you can shoot from or across an un-maintained right of way. The road condition would be a good indication whether the road has been maintained. I would look at the entire road vs the specific section that you are hunting on. Note; Chances are that if there is a reasonable chance that people would be travelling on that road, a CO might consider careless hunting if shooting down the road.

In addition to the above, there are additional regulations that address loaded firearms within right of ways.

Lastly, the “hunting regulations” booklet that you pick up at the MNRF or sporting good stores is a summary/synopsis of the regulations… and should not be confused with the actual legal documents.

I should point out that for forestry purposes on Crown land in Northern Ontario, there are 3 types of roads: primary, branch, and operational road.

Primary roads provide principle access for the management unit, and are constructed, maintained and used as the main road system on the forest management unit. These roads are usually permanent however there may be significant periods of time when they, or segments, are not required for forestry purposes and are not regularly maintained.

Branch roads split off of primary roads and provide access to and through areas of forestry operations.

Operational roads are within areas of forestry operations and provide short-term access for logging, tree planting, and thinning operations.

Maintenance activities on all 3 types of road will depend on the forest industry’s plans for the area. One should expect that primary roads are regularly maintained whereas operational roads are often abandoned once the area has been logged over and re-planted.