18A Moose quota, what happened

Anyone know the reasoning for the drop in tags for 18A?

Last year there was 206 bull rifle tags, now only 15.

37 bull bow tags last year, now 3.

Seems like a mistake might have been made?

Two things may have happened,either,separately or in combination. Harvest levels may have been exceedingly high or actual aerial count (instead of the "mathematical extrapolation type") survey may have revealed a catastrophic population drop.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

Two things may have happened,either,separately or in combination. Harvest levels may have been exceedingly high or actual aerial count (instead of the "mathematical extrapolation type") survey may have revealed a catastrophic population drop.

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I was hoping there was a mistake made. Will keep an eye on it.

I think 18a is the Geraldton WMU where the MNR has spent the last couple of decades trying to eradicate the moose in favour of the woodland caribou. The logic was to eliminate the moose to starve out the wolves in the area so that the caribou herd could get established. There are MNR papers available on this. To this end, moose tags were grossly over-allocated in the WMU (compared to the rest of the province) without regard to the actual moose population. My guess is that this experiment has come to and end.

Read through the attachment. Search for the word "moose".

https://www.ontario.ca/page/woodland...plan#section-6

A couple of excerpts:

• 5.4 Ontario will assess the relationship between Moose and caribou numbers in order to develop recommended objectives for maximum Moose numbers in Wildlife Management Units within continuous caribou distribution. This process will be implemented through the Moose management program by the establishment of Moose population objectives and harvest management strategies.
• 5.5 Within the geographic distribution of caribou, populations of predators will be managed primarily by managing habitat and the associated roads to reflect natural forest conditions. This will include the management of land and resource uses to maintain naturally-occurring low densities of prey (e.g. Moose, White-tailed Deer) and predators. Ontario will assess the feasibility and effectiveness of directly and indirectly influencing predator densities in very specific situations, and develop criteria and guidelines for managing the prey-predator balance as required.5.4 Ontario will assess the relationship between Moose and caribou numbers in order to develop recommended objectives for maximum Moose numbers in Wildlife Management Units within continuous caribou distribution. This process will be implemented through the Moose management program by the establishment of Moose population objectives and harvest management strategies.
• 
  5.5 Within the geographic distribution of caribou, populations of predators will be managed primarily by managing habitat and the associated roads to reflect natural forest conditions. This will include the management of land and resource uses to maintain naturally-occurring low densities of prey (e.g. Moose, White-tailed Deer) and predators. Ontario will assess the feasibility and effectiveness of directly and indirectly influencing predator densities in very specific situations, and develop criteria and guidelines for managing the prey-predator balance as required.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

I think 18a is the Geraldton WMU where the MNR has spent the last couple of decades trying to eradicate the moose in favour of the woodland caribou. The logic was to eliminate the moose to starve out the wolves in the area so that the caribou herd could get established. There are MNR papers available on this. To this end, moose tags were grossly over-allocated in the WMU (compared to the rest of the province) without regard to the actual moose population. My guess is that this experiment has come to and end.

Read through the attachment. Search for the word "moose".

https://www.ontario.ca/page/woodland...plan#section-6

A couple of excerpts:

• 5.4 Ontario will assess the relationship between Moose and caribou numbers in order to develop recommended objectives for maximum Moose numbers in Wildlife Management Units within continuous caribou distribution. This process will be implemented through the Moose management program by the establishment of Moose population objectives and harvest management strategies.
• 5.5 Within the geographic distribution of caribou, populations of predators will be managed primarily by managing habitat and the associated roads to reflect natural forest conditions. This will include the management of land and resource uses to maintain naturally-occurring low densities of prey (e.g. Moose, White-tailed Deer) and predators. Ontario will assess the feasibility and effectiveness of directly and indirectly influencing predator densities in very specific situations, and develop criteria and guidelines for managing the prey-predator balance as required.5.4 Ontario will assess the relationship between Moose and caribou numbers in order to develop recommended objectives for maximum Moose numbers in Wildlife Management Units within continuous caribou distribution. This process will be implemented through the Moose management program by the establishment of Moose population objectives and harvest management strategies.
• 
  5.5 Within the geographic distribution of caribou, populations of predators will be managed primarily by managing habitat and the associated roads to reflect natural forest conditions. This will include the management of land and resource uses to maintain naturally-occurring low densities of prey (e.g. Moose, White-tailed Deer) and predators. Ontario will assess the feasibility and effectiveness of directly and indirectly influencing predator densities in very specific situations, and develop criteria and guidelines for managing the prey-predator balance as required.

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Hi Werner, thanks for the info.

Been in 18A for 7 years now. We've seen moose, bears and wolves, no sign of caribou. Wonder how their experiment is going...

Thanks

If you saw a moose in 18A you are a lucky man.
There are very few.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JUDGE

If you saw a moose in 18A you are a lucky man.
There are very few.

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I guess it depends where you're hunting. Last year we had multiple cows show up and 1 big bull over the course of a week. There's only been 1 year in the last 5 where we haven't had moose come into the calls.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

I think 18a is the Geraldton WMU where the MNR has spent the last couple of decades trying to eradicate the moose in favour of the woodland caribou. The logic was to eliminate the moose to starve out the wolves in the area so that the caribou herd could get established. There are MNR papers available on this. To this end, moose tags were grossly over-allocated in the WMU (compared to the rest of the province) without regard to the actual moose population. My guess is that this experiment has come to and end.

Read through the attachment. Search for the word "moose".

https://www.ontario.ca/page/woodland...plan#section-6

A couple of excerpts:

• 5.4 Ontario will assess the relationship between Moose and caribou numbers in order to develop recommended objectives for maximum Moose numbers in Wildlife Management Units within continuous caribou distribution. This process will be implemented through the Moose management program by the establishment of Moose population objectives and harvest management strategies.
• 5.5 Within the geographic distribution of caribou, populations of predators will be managed primarily by managing habitat and the associated roads to reflect natural forest conditions. This will include the management of land and resource uses to maintain naturally-occurring low densities of prey (e.g. Moose, White-tailed Deer) and predators. Ontario will assess the feasibility and effectiveness of directly and indirectly influencing predator densities in very specific situations, and develop criteria and guidelines for managing the prey-predator balance as required.5.4 Ontario will assess the relationship between Moose and caribou numbers in order to develop recommended objectives for maximum Moose numbers in Wildlife Management Units within continuous caribou distribution. This process will be implemented through the Moose management program by the establishment of Moose population objectives and harvest management strategies.
• 
  5.5 Within the geographic distribution of caribou, populations of predators will be managed primarily by managing habitat and the associated roads to reflect natural forest conditions. This will include the management of land and resource uses to maintain naturally-occurring low densities of prey (e.g. Moose, White-tailed Deer) and predators. Ontario will assess the feasibility and effectiveness of directly and indirectly influencing predator densities in very specific situations, and develop criteria and guidelines for managing the prey-predator balance as required.

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It was 21A you were thinking of. Not 18A

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JUDGE

If you saw a moose in 18A you are a lucky man.
There are very few.

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X2 -while have no personal experience,here is my stake to the claim:

One of my coworker stopped going there about 10 years ago.
They hunted the area for 10- 15 years prior.Always shot a moose. Central area of the WMU.
Then-things slowed down,to a point-there was no more moose shot by a rather large group,for years.
They gave up.

My buddies friends(avid hunters)spent there 7 days( 4 ppl)on a surplus tag,maybe 6-7 years ago.They told me ,the thousand miles they drove,no single moose track was crossed.North east area of the WMU.

My friend went there with 5-6 old -old and very experienced archers ,in a week ,they barely saw tracks.
Just old overgrown clear-cuts, full of planted monoculture .
North West corner of the WMU.

Based on all this,i think that WMU is dead.

Of course-there could be strong pockets(but for how long?).

They actually should be closing this and some other WMUs for hunting...........if they are to save the remnants of the moose population there.

Wait-i am dreaming.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BPR 30-06

It was 21A you were thinking of. Not 18A

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Maybe,maybe not.They plan BIG.

Yet-there should be some reflection in this matter on the NON SAVED Slate Island Caribou Population(for which fiasco no one was ever questioned)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gbk

X2 -while have no personal experience,here is my stake to the claim:

One of my coworker stopped going there about 10 years ago.
They hunted the area for 10- 15 years prior.Always shot a moose. Central area of the WMU.
Then-things slowed down,to a point-there was no more moose shot by a rather large group,for years.
They gave up.

My buddies friends(avid hunters)spent there 7 days( 4 ppl)on a surplus tag,maybe 6-7 years ago.They told me ,the thousand miles they drove,no single moose track was crossed.North east area of the WMU.

My friend went there with 5-6 old -old and very experienced archers ,in a week ,they barely saw tracks.
Just old overgrown clear-cuts, full of planted monoculture .
North West corner of the WMU.

Based on all this,i think that WMU is dead.

Of course-there could be strong pockets(but for how long?).

They actually should be closing this and some other WMUs for hunting...........if they are to save the remnants of the moose population there.

Wait-i am dreaming.

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I can assure you, there is no shortage of moose in 18A. Last 7 years have harvested moose and experienced plenty.

Call the MNRF biologist in Geraldton and ask for an explanation,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sam Menard

Call the MNRF biologist in Geraldton and ask for an explanation,

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Good idea, I'll do that. Thanks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

I think 18a is the Geraldton WMU where the MNR has spent the last couple of decades trying to eradicate the moose in favour of the woodland caribou. The logic was to eliminate the moose to starve out the wolves in the area so that the caribou herd could get established. There are MNR papers available on this. To this end, moose tags were grossly over-allocated in the WMU (compared to the rest of the province) without regard to the actual moose population. My guess is that this experiment has come to and end.

Read through the attachment. Search for the word "moose".

https://www.ontario.ca/page/woodland...plan#section-6

A couple of excerpts:

• 5.4 Ontario will assess the relationship between Moose and caribou numbers in order to develop recommended objectives for maximum Moose numbers in Wildlife Management Units within continuous caribou distribution. This process will be implemented through the Moose management program by the establishment of Moose population objectives and harvest management strategies.
• 5.5 Within the geographic distribution of caribou, populations of predators will be managed primarily by managing habitat and the associated roads to reflect natural forest conditions. This will include the management of land and resource uses to maintain naturally-occurring low densities of prey (e.g. Moose, White-tailed Deer) and predators. Ontario will assess the feasibility and effectiveness of directly and indirectly influencing predator densities in very specific situations, and develop criteria and guidelines for managing the prey-predator balance as required.5.4 Ontario will assess the relationship between Moose and caribou numbers in order to develop recommended objectives for maximum Moose numbers in Wildlife Management Units within continuous caribou distribution. This process will be implemented through the Moose management program by the establishment of Moose population objectives and harvest management strategies.
• 
  5.5 Within the geographic distribution of caribou, populations of predators will be managed primarily by managing habitat and the associated roads to reflect natural forest conditions. This will include the management of land and resource uses to maintain naturally-occurring low densities of prey (e.g. Moose, White-tailed Deer) and predators. Ontario will assess the feasibility and effectiveness of directly and indirectly influencing predator densities in very specific situations, and develop criteria and guidelines for managing the prey-predator balance as required.

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I would tend to agree

12b took a big tag reduction as well. Quite likely it’s as a result of the moose inventory the MNRF did this past winter.

https://www.ontario.ca/page/moose-population-management

This link is the moose population target by WMU.
WMU 18A is way below target.
I can’t find it but now but I believe MNRF did aerial survey on 18A & 18B

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BPR 30-06

https://www.ontario.ca/page/moose-population-management

This link is the moose population target by WMU.
WMU 18A is way below target.
I can’t find it but now but I believe MNRF did aerial survey on 18A & 18B

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Thanks for sharing :-)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BPR 30-06

https://www.ontario.ca/page/moose-population-management

This link is the moose population target by WMU.
WMU 18A is way below target.
I can’t find it but now but I believe MNRF did aerial survey on 18A & 18B

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Thanks for the link.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

Thanks for the link.

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https://lakesuperior.travel/Travel-O...to-count-moose

Link to northern WMU’s Surveyed
WMU 17, 18A & 18B

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BPR 30-06

https://lakesuperior.travel/Travel-O...to-count-moose

Link to northern WMU’s Surveyed
WMU 17, 18A & 18B

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Thank you, great resources

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BPR 30-06

https://www.ontario.ca/page/moose-population-management

This link is the moose population target by WMU.
WMU 18A is way below target.
I can’t find it but now but I believe MNRF did aerial survey on 18A & 18B

---

Thanks for the link, much appreciated

WE HUNT 37 AND 38 AND IN 38 IN 2021 THERE WERE 121 TAGS AND ALL OF A SUDDENT IN 2022 THERE WERE 291 TAGS AND AGAIN THIS YEAR 291

I'LL CHECK THE LINK YOU SENT IT MIGHT EXPLAIN IT

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 300Sniper

Anyone know the reasoning for the drop in tags for 18A?

Last year there was 206 bull rifle tags, now only 15.

37 bull bow tags last year, now 3.

Seems like a mistake might have been made?

---

I would be curious to see if they cut the OUTFITTERS tags accordingly.
The outfitters should be the first in line to turn them in to help save their livelihood.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BPR 30-06

I would be curious to see if they cut the OUTFITTERS tags accordingly.
The outfitters should be the first in line to turn them in to help save their livelihood.

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I would expect the exact opposite to happen. The outfitters would be the only ones to have tags. Likely many less of them,too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BPR 30-06

I would be curious to see if they cut the OUTFITTERS tags accordingly.
The outfitters should be the first in line to turn them in to help save their livelihood.

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The standard practice is to implement changes to outfitter tags a year later (2024 in this case) due to booking commitments.

I know that outfitters get a lot of flak from resident hunters but most of them don’t get rich at it. They often rely on deposits on trips to get through the off-seasons.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sam Menard

The standard practice is to implement changes to outfitter tags a year later (2024 in this case) due to booking commitments.

I know that outfitters get a lot of flak from resident hunters but most of them don’t get rich at it. They often rely on deposits on trips to get through the off-seasons.

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I think that MNR could easily put the "residents vs outfitter" tags squabbles at bay, by releasing the tag allocation data to public.



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