Please comment around the initiated petition and if you find it worthwhile you can sign it.
https://www.change.org/p/fix-the-ont...re-wasted-tags
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Please comment around the initiated petition and if you find it worthwhile you can sign it.
https://www.change.org/p/fix-the-ont...re-wasted-tags
Quote- “Any non-purchased/claimed tags after this second draw are then distributed to moose hunting outfitters or a final Surplus Call in Allocation.”
Who? What group is associated with this petition?
Sorry, I will not sign a petition that gives more Moose tags to outfitters!
A am completely satisfied with the new system ,
noting wrong with it ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deer Hunter
In the moose aerial inventory webinar presented by OFAH and MNR they were asked the question about these unclaimed tags. The MNR stated they were aware of the issue and were working to come up with a solution for next year. Hopefully they do as this issue would seem to be my only complaint with the new system.
I'm not seeing the section that you quoted. Has the petition been edited? I do think that unclaimed tags should be available via a surplus purchase system. This would involve issuing a cut-off date for tags allotted in the second phase to be either claimed or lost. I don't think points should be lost because you don't claim a tag, but perhaps having your point total frozen for a year if you don't claim.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deer Hunter
I like the new system just the way it is.
Good lord it’s completely straight forward. The % of tags that go unclaimed is roughly known. When quotas are set the estimated % of unclaimed tags is factored in
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Agreed, its just those that used to have an unfair advantage that aren't happy with the new system. Now that its fair for everyone I'm all for it. Sure it could use a few tweaks, but it sure doesn't need to be fixed.Quote:
Originally Posted by outdoorlife
I was not a fan of the old system. One of my neighbours told me he made sure his group got moose tags every year by having a large group size of wife, kids, cousins, friends, etc who were never going moose hunting be a part of their "group" to inflate their group size, and then once awarded a tag, he would get it transferred to him.
To me, the inability to transfer tags is the best part of the new system. If you are not serious about actually going hunting, then you should not be able to get a tag and transfer it to someone else.
We can debate the whole "get a tag and not use it" strategy. I've read online that PETA and other organizations may buy tags and not claim them, reducing the number of actual tags available for actual hunters.
Is the new system perfect? Nope. Could it use some tweaks? Yep. Is it better than the old system? Heck yes!
Just my opinions. YMMV.
In response to Wasa. I think what your neighbour told you is not correct. If a person applied for a tag in a large group every year, the tag was awarded to the hunter with the longest consecutive years of applying without missing a year. if the tag was then transferred, it would have went to the hunter in the group who had the most consecutive years of applying without getting a tag. If it took eight hunters to get a bull tag, there would have had to have been eight hunters with at least one point or years of applying to get that tag he would’ve had zero years If he had the tag the previous year. could this new system use a few tweaks I liken it to a train wreck. 573 tags by my count in 15 B unclaimed. A lot of hunters possibly being denied a chance to go hunting. No different than all the hunters complaining about the old system and not getting a tag. have a sale before the season. I’m sure every moose tag will be sold that Was not claimed.
Mmmmmm….. yes looks like the petition was edited. I can no longer see what I quoted. Not cool.Quote:
Originally Posted by delmer
Beware.
Sure but the number of tags isn’t the issue to the MNR. It’s the number of moose harvested.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralphy
So with your proposal more moose killed this year and then less tags next year
It’s a one year short term game at best
The way it is now if there are less harvested and population estimates indicate they want more taken then there will be more tags issued next year
I know you want a tag but it really comes down to how many moose we have and what rate of harvest is sustainable
The number of unclaimed tags is just one more factor in those calculations
Totally agree, this system is way better than beforeQuote:
Originally Posted by FishHog
Closing the "phantom hunter" loophole was the single biggest improvement in the new system. This system is still brand new. We need to let it run and give it a chance. Sustainability is key,not harvest at all costs.
IMO, I don’t think that the MNRF anticipated the actual number of unclaimed tags. They are supposed to review the draw after this year and I expect that there will be tweaks to the draw to eliminate them.
The way the current draw works, if all of the tags are allocated at choice #1, then choice 2 & 3 are redundant even if tags go unclaimed. All unclaimed tags should be randomly distributed to hunters who were unsuccessful in the draw (for that particular unit) as long as they check off a box (new step) indicating their willingness to claim an unclaimed tag and forfeiting their points if they check the box and don’t claim it.
Please, do not reinstate the telephone draw for surplus tags. That was a farce!
Don't change anything it is the best system
first year I got a tag with 2 points (and I went hunting ..)
second year I got a tag with 0 point (and I went hunting ..)
I am hoping for a tag this year to ...(and I will go hunting ..)
With this new system who wants a tag can get one (and can go hunting Moose to )
Who want to collect point and not to go hunting Moose can do that to ...
Also who want whining about about the new system can do that also ...
Sorry no offence I just got tired reading ...
Definitely not a fan of the new system.
In the core moose range we are at a tag of a lifetime maybe 2 if you live long enough.
Needing 15 plus points for a bull tag is not conducive to moose hunting.
On the plus side you get to know sooner you don't have a tag again lol.
But that isn't a function of the new system, that is a function of a declining moose herd and lots of people who what to hunt. Sure it would be great if there were so many moose we could all get tags, but that isn't the reality.Quote:
Originally Posted by gibb
Quote:
Originally Posted by FishHog
The function of the new system was to give whiners who want to hunt a moose by themselves a tag. Great success there but a complete failure otherwise.
Oh I get it. You liked the system that was in your favour but not fair for everyoneQuote:
Originally Posted by gibb
Sucks for you but you had your turn. Now those of us with small groups might finally get our chance
No actually I like the fact that one and done whiners will be out of the system.Quote:
Originally Posted by FishHog
Just don't like the fact that party hunting is not recognize in the new system.
Have not missed under the new system but tired of being manipulated by the government.
The new system is great for parties in many units. You set your group size based on the guaranteed point requirement for a tag. By doing so, your group should get a tag every year.Quote:
Originally Posted by gibb
Granted, there are some units where you need 15+ points which makes for very large groups. I would suggest moving to a unit where the number of points is lower. I would also suggest a fly-in trip every couple of years… you would ask yourself why you didn’t do it sooner.
Well its typical that the ones that don't like the new system were the ones the old system gave an unfair advantage. You had your run for a large number of years.Quote:
Originally Posted by gibb
I don't think having a system that puts everyone in an equal position is being manipulated by the gov't.
Many things in life not fair, but this is one were it finally is after years of a very biased system.
I have nothing against large groups hunting, but they sure don't deserve an unfair advantage over smaller groups or individuals. But you had a good run. Now your just no more important than every other hunter and never should have been in the first place.
^^^^^Like^^^^^Quote:
Originally Posted by FishHog
^^^^^ X2 like!!!!!!^^^^^Quote:
Originally Posted by FishHog
Calling a once or twice in a lifetime adult moose tag in the core units a good system has me laughing out loud.
The government easily manipulates the tags by how many they allow out in each unit.
The new system does nothing to address the lack of moose in units that have a low moose count.
In a couple of years the moose whiners will be back to poor me I can't get a tag.
how is it you expect a new tag allocation system to address the low moose population?Quote:
Originally Posted by gibb
The reality is they should cancel all moose hunting in ontario for all residents of ontario and cull a lot of wolves and look into the moose tick and brain worm issues.
The tag system not allowing big groups to have a monopoly on the few tags is hardly the same issue as addressing the low moose numbers. Sure we will all whine as we all obviously want to go moose hunting. But can't really hunt what isn't there.
I guess if you think limiting the tags as gov't manipulation then fine. And your solution is what? A free for all for 2 years until there are no moose left?
I must be missing your point as to what you think is wrong with the new system, unless its not allowing any moose hunting at all. Probably the right solution for the long term is to stop it all, but I'm not sure anyone really wants that solution and you think people whine now.....
In the meantime, at least is a more fair way to allocate the small resource that still exists and hopefully at these lower number it will be maintained to a point. Once in a lifetime is better than never in a lifetime, which for me and my 5 person hunt camp was what we had prior to the new system.
Attachment 44423
Large group hunting is an outdated practice everywhere but Ontario to be honest.
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I do not think that the new system is any better or worse than the old system. In the old we had tag transfers they just didn’t enforce it like the new one. That’s all they had to do. They count the moose in the different areas with area surveys, and Hunter reporting in both of the old and new they now enforce reporting. They had and have data for hunters to read for the best chance at getting a tag. No hunters should complain about themselves or their group not getting a tag for 10 to 20 years. Fish Hog said once in a lifetime is better than never in a lifetime which for him and his five person hut camp was what we had prior to that. I would say that is your own fault. Pack your gear and move. A group of five should have had a tag pretty much every year up till now. As for unclaimed tags, I would think the ministry gives out tags for the different areas after going over all their data they collect. We all know every tag is not filled not even close. And I am sure the ministry did not ever think this many tags would go unclaimed. That would have been guessing. I also do not think they would issue tags if they heard could not sustain itself. I would also like to add that Sam Menard has my vote to run the moose hunting in Ontario.
Agreed completely. I said my hunt camp, which is located south of Sudbury in area 42. Sure we could travel, but I was referring to getting a tag at my camp some point in my lifetime. With the new system that will eventually happen, with the old system that was never going to happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralphy
Lots of ways people could moosehunt if you really want to, but it involves lots of travel, or paying lots to guides. I would like to hunt at out of my cottage, which happens to be in incredible moose country. I had 5 within 50 yards of me last fall. I know the area and would love to hunt it. Someday I will now that they don't give all the tags to big groups. In the meantime I'm happy to bear and deer hunt, but I look forward to the day I get a tag.
Agree 100% same situation for me in 60, there are a good number of Moose around and I always seem to have them pass through my place on a Thursday of the week hunt. Almost no chance in the old system of getting a tag but in this system I will eventually get one, as long as I buy a license.Quote:
Originally Posted by FishHog
It wasn't removed, its the last sentence in option 1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deer Hunter
"Any non-purchased/claimed tags after this second draw are then distributed to moose hunting outfitters or a final Surplus Call in Allocation."
Ya, I'm not a fan of this petition. More thought needs to be put in before suggesting radical changes like this and how accurate are the authors concerns... Any changes needs to be backed by accurate data and not based on random peoples thoughts or feelings. What is the intended outcome here...More hunters hunting moose or more moose to hunt?
I think its pretty good as it is, It may need a few tweaks, but the main flaw was removing groups, if they kept group applications the tags would have been stretched out further initially and would have reduced the number of tags going unclaimed because everyone now applies as individuals to see who will get the tag with the lowest amount of points and claim just that one. Sometime we hunters do it to ourselves.
Thanks, I missed that. I’m also not a fan of this petition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quack_Kills
This new system is a great improvement.
Outfitter’s shouldn’t have nothing to do with these tags or we will lose them for good.
Lets give it a chance before making knee jerk reactions.
IMO
Good article in the Sudbury Star today about more moose mismanagement vs caribou.
https://www.sudbury.com/columns/the-...aribou-6819877
https://www.sudbury.com/columns/the-soapbox/opinion-vanishing-caribou-dwindling-moose-and-poor-hunting-blame-the-bureaucrats-5243491