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So last night was in the sport shop and overheard the counter guy recommend #7 steel for early season ducks. A little shocked asked him why? Said due to the smaller pellet penetration is better. Did I miss a memo or was he just trying to get rid of the #7 which for doves great, possibly teal over decoys but for me Still would of recommended #3 for all round duck. What are the thoughts out there.
The sport shop guy was talking out his a**. Light shot only guarantees cripples on large birds.
Agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
I use challenger #4 for ducks - it's ideal for mallards, maybe a bit big for woodies. But I don't have time to change loads when the ducks are coming in.
Do you see the sales associate in the store often? I am shocked at the lack of experience some sport shops around me. For example, I went in to Sail in Burlington during the spring for Turkey loads. I actually had to point out the loads to the sales associate behind the ammo counter and then walk him through how to read the box (i.e., where to find the gauge; shell size; shot size). He said it was his first week, but what was he doing running the ammo counter if he had no working knowledge of the products!?
He claimed to have 40 years hunting experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryeguy
Imagine what the breast meat would look like with that many pellets flying, that's if the pellets even made it that far.
#7 really good dove load but that about it. I use #3, 3 inch for just about everything, except maybe late season geese.
The physics do not support a smaller pellet having better "penetration" ... a smaller pellet is lighter, therefore has less joules upon impact ... in addition the pellets will slow faster after leaving the barrel, so will hit with less speed than a larger pellet from the same distance. The only benefit to smaller pellets are more pellets in the pattern, but shooting sawdust at a mallard is still less effective than trying your luck with a slug. Personally, I don't use steel shot smaller than #3 for air shots ... I start the season with #3, and tend to change over to #1 about Remembrance Day when most of my shoot are mallards or larger, fat divers. I still have some smaller shot on me in case I get nothing but a bufflehead shoot in the late season. I would struggle with the ethics of having #7 steel in the barrel for ducks after Halloween (actually, I would not do that, or recommend it at any time).
#4 for ducks, #2 for geese - 12ga.
Geese and Ducks I like #2s 3 1/2 in reasonable range. I think the key point is to shoot within range. You can use smaller shot at a closer distance. So maybe #7 at landing ducks might be ok 15 yards out?
Ballistically 3 inch #3's are the best "go to" shot for ducks as they have enough weight to carry the kinetic energy needed to kill at approx. 30 yards plus enough pellet count to ensure a few hit the bird. Research showed it takes an average of 3 pellets to do this but in reality I've had to do a follow up shot on a lot of my birds... go figure ? In the old days of Lead shot we used #7 1/2's to swat the cripples on the water so I could see using #7 Steel shot for that purpose and of course it would make a fine load for Doves or Woodcock. For early season birds #4's may work as the birds haven't got thicker feathers/down yet but if you buy your shells by the case why bother ? Come November the birds are bigger and better armoured so bumping up the shot size ( #1's or #2's ?) for ducks is a good idea but as for geese I just use BB's all season. I do know guys that use #2's from the beginning and step up to BB's later on but they like to shoot further out then what I'm comfortable with and their logic is "if I hit them they're dead". So finding the right size and load and practicing/hunting you will find that "one shot kill zone" that is right for you.
Hello Finsfurfeathers,
Something happened here so that I am not able to paste my response.
Jerome
Hello Finsfurfeathers,
I am not a ballistic expert and there are others who have had more experience hunting waterfowl than me but I thought that I would share my experience and some of the knowledge that I have acquired over the years with you.
I have been hunting "waterfowl" since 1978 so I have progressed from lead shot (in the past) to steel shot (in the present) to tungsten shot (in the future) hunting ducks, geese and swans (in the future) ... keep in mind that the term "waterfowl" includes ducks, geese and swans.
Past Experience (Lead Shot)
I started waterfowl hunting at Long Point (inner marsh) in 1978 and I found that #6 lead shot was good for the Green Winged Teal (earlier in the season) but that #4 lead shot was better for the larger ducks (who often kept their distance) ... especially later in the season. I would bring some #2 lead shot with me in case a Canada Goose came by (a limited season started in southern Ontario in 1982 as there were not many of them back then). However I would eventually focused my waterfowl hunting on "divers" at Presqu'ile (late 1980s) and generally only use #5 lead shot there until steel shot was introduced in the late 1990s.
Current Experience (Steel Shot)
I initially followed the manufacturer's advice when steel shot was introduced in Canada which was to increase the steel shot size by 2 over the lead shot size that was previously used ... so #4 steel shot for Green Winged Teal, #2 steel shot for the larger ducks and BB steel shot for a Canada Goose (more of them around by then). I was still hunting primarily "divers" at Presqu'ile (mostly Longtail Ducks) so I tried using #3 steel shot on them ... not a good choice. I found that #1 steel shot was a better choice for most "divers" as well as for the occasional large puddle duck. I would often start my day however with #3 steel shot since the birds would decoy rather close early in the morning. I resumed waterfowl hunting at Long Point (outer marsh) in 2004 and I continued to use what I had been using at Presqu'ile since I had had very few cripples there.
Future Experience (Tungsten)
I have been watching the Tundra Swan hunting opportunities in the United States since 2010 and I suspect (certainly hope) that a limited (tag only) Tundra Swan season will be implemented in Canada (particularly in Ontario) in the near future. A few waterfowl hunters have asked me about what size of steel shot we would use on a Tundra Swan and that depends on the individual hunter. I believe (based upon what I have read) that American and Canadian waterfowl hunters are often using BBB steel shot (for the most part) but that some are using a smaller steel shot for a head/neck shot (less damage to the breast meat) and a few use an even smaller tungsten shot.
I will probably get criticized for including the shot size for a Tundra Swan in my response but it is what it is ... my passion and perhaps a passion that is shared by others as well. I have a box (ten pack) of Federal BB tungsten shot as well as a few boxes (ten pack) of Kent Impact #1 tungsten matrix shot ... just in case.
I think that you could use that #7 steel shot in a close range (20 yards) head shot for a crippled duck on the water ... this was suggested to me a while ago and it has worked for me.
Jerome Katchin, D.V.M.
PS I do not bother with #4 steel shot ... not even for crippled ducks on the water.
PS I will probably use #1 steel shot or #1 tungsten shot for Sandhill Cranes when we get a season for them ... hopefully very soon.
BB AND 2
Even back in the day when we used lead, we used #6. Much different than #7 steel.
#4 ducks early, #2 ducks late, #1 geese, bb geese
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMatthews
Exactly what I do. #7 steel shot will only result in cripples.
3" # 2 steel ducks and geese
Wow. That's such poor advice. I agree with the suggestions above for #2,3,4. Lately I have been using 3 inch #2 for Mallards. Seems to be working good. Quick kills and fewer holes.Quote:
Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers
3 and 4 for ducks, 1 and BB for geese. BBB is fun but costly. never shot Ts. or a cannon... or a punt gun
I shoot Winchester sx3 and sx4 both will shoot 3 1/2 inch shells but I only ever shoot 2 3/4 inch BBs it’s all I need too down duck and geese