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Am I reading this correctly? The minimum points for first choice bull gun in a bunch of WMUs was 20+? So that's basically once or twice in a lifetime? Do we expect those numbers to come down eventually?
https://www.ontario.ca/document/onta...ose#section-17
You are reading it right.
Once in a lifetime would be the norm. No,we don't ever expect it to come down. Like aqll things with government,once we lose something,it's gone forever.Quote:
Originally Posted by manyo
Yes - that is correct. I think I get my bull tag when I am 79.Quote:
Originally Posted by manyo
I was told that the age demographic of Moose hunters in Ontario is projected to be between 55 and 72 years of age by 2024. This is the demographic that the "new" system affects the most with tag reductions eliminating their eligibility by 75%. If that's reasonably accurate (I haven't verified the info),Moose hunting in this province has been effectively shut down while attempting to keep a revenue stream open to fill government coffers. We pay a $15 lottery fee with worse odds than Lotto Max.
Dam! I only have 7 points. :(
I'm 54 years old I need 14 more points for my preferred WMU that requires 21points for Bull / Gun.
So, if my math is correct, I'll be 68years old when I finally get a tag assuming I apply every year and still on this earth. Thats dam depressing! lol
:scream:Assuming the points needed to get a bull tag do NOT GO UP !:scream:Quote:
Originally Posted by bellerivercrossbowhunter
Observing the happenings-likely zero chances for that:ashamed:
I'm 52 with 12 points and looks like a 3-4 year wait for me for the unit I want the tag for. Not sure what I'm missing since I've never had a tag in my name anyway before. Missed 4 or 5 years applying when the old gang stopped going to Geraldton but then my brother bought a property so I started applying again. If I hadn't stopped I'd have probably got my bull tag by now.Quote:
Originally Posted by bellerivercrossbowhunter
That might be true,BUT,once you have a tag,it'll be the last one you'll ever get.Quote:
Originally Posted by cantgetright
At least now you have a chance at a tag at some point in your life as before these people with 20+ points haven't drawn a tag in 20 plus years,
I suppose that's true -- I can't imagine how gutting it would be to play for 20+ years and never get a tag in an opaque system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt86
Points needed will come down over time. Only makes sense that the current point values are high as the mnrf has gone back 25plus years and u gain 1 point for each year applying after being successful. Lots and lots of older hunters under the old system with high points. As time goes on these hunters will draw and be back at the bottom.
It is the fairest system out there, no other system proposed at the time gave the tags to the people that have waited the longest. The issue currently is we have a large group of people with a lot of points so it’s taking time to burn through them.
An example is 100 guys with 20pts in wmu with 20pts required for a bull tag of which there are 25 tags. It will be the 5th season before a 19point applicant is awarded a tag. Add guys moving around to different wmus and that number can go up and down obviously.
It is projected to take 5-7yrs(we are a few in now) and you will see the points required drop.
Again to re-iterate there isn’t a system out there that works more fairly. Unfortunately it’s taking some time to work for everyone but rest assured if we all be patient our time will come. It does suck that older hunters 75plus years of age may never draw another tag after using points but I can’t figure out how that could be corrected and still keep things fair for the rest of the applicants.
That is not quite like that-they would not get a tag IN the WMU of their choosing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt86
Up until few years back-there were many WMU-s one can get a bull tag.
Heck about 15 years ago i got a surplus Rifle Bull tag in WMU 28.
Even today-many can get a moose tag-just in hard to get to-and hard to score areas.
Not trying to argue or open up a debate-but not getting a bull tag complains by many in the WMU of choosing (my backyard,or my hunting camp area) -partially led us to where we are now.
Not being rude Matt-just the facts,.
Please read my post above-again,not debating.Quote:
Originally Posted by biggamer
Where is the guarantee-the points needed to hunt in a WMU will not go up?
Nowhere.
Decline in moose numbers led us partially where we are now.There is zero sign of improving them numbers.Anywhere in Ontario
Your right, all I was saying is at least I'll get one. Wasn't getting ANY with the old system either. With 2 or 3 guys with a couple points less than me I should still get a few hunts in.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
5 years since the last time I moose hunted. We had a camp in the lower panhandle of the park in 54, got a tag every year and filled that tag most years. thats the past
I've got 9 points now and honestly don't feel like my number will be called anytime soon. (moving goal post) I do know that when I do get the tag the hunt will be pretty good with less than 1/4 of the camps going in yearly
Have a neighbour who went with his group to the same area, they got a tag and a Moose every year from what he told me. Now nobody is going up there as they are not able to get tags, no idea what the Moose population is now.Quote:
Originally Posted by DanE
Forget it I give up.
In some areas the wait can be very long between tags. A hunter in this predicament has choices however; he/she can: stick it out, switch to different unit where the wait isn’t as long, apply for a cow or calf if the wait is shorter, hunt with an outfitter, or quit.
The philosophy of the MNRF is not to provide hunters with a tag but to encourage hunters to hunt in groups where they have “access” to a tag. Where I hunt, only 4 points are required to get a bull tag, so we have a group of 4 guys and each year we should get a tag. For our group, 1 bull is more than enough. I understand that others aren’t in the same boat as me. If it makes anyone feel better, deer hunting for my group has gotten really tough… few tags and few deer but I still go regardless.
from the groups we've talked to the area is polluted with them nowQuote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
one camp had a cow tag and they seen 17 moose in the 3 days they hunted (probably some duplicates) but with how many moose were around they decided to look for a dry cow and were able to harvest one
Oh I get you, its very easy to get a tag, ive had 2 adult tags, 1 bull 1 cow, and calf tag last 3 yearsQuote:
Originally Posted by gbk
The people choose to apply and not receive a tag it a area its hard to get one.
We camp in the middle of no where away from any group in a area with plenty of tags and do well.
Well said and I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by biggamer
Points should come down as people pass away. If your 75 and just starting….nope will probably never get a tag. But if you have been hunting all your life you have most likely had lots
Moose population is down for lots of reasons. I know many people think they have the solution to that but in the current political climate it is what it is. Not enough to go around
So I agree this is the fairest system. The old system was very biased against small or individual groups. They had their run for a couple decades but that are the ones who complain the most now that they don’t get a preference other than all the points they have from applying the last 25 years. So even now they have a drastic advantage
If moose populations rebound. There will be more tags issued. Hopefully they do but I’m not so sure. Until they take the political aspect out of it and let the biologists do what they were hired to do I’m afraid it might keep declining.
I hope I’m wrong
I totally agree with you ...
I myself had 3 adult tag the last 3 years ,
two times with 0 points ,
where is the problem ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt86
With all due respect, "same old song" Alfo. Most people don't have the means or want to hunt in the areas you go to.Quote:
Originally Posted by alfoldivandor
It's great that some do and more power to you and I hope you all enjoy as what you do sounds really adventurous. Tags in those remote areas were easy to get before the new system as well.
For the rest of us that want a few more creature comforts and be a little closer to home, it now may be once in a lifetime tag / hunt with this new system if you are not part of a sizeable group.
Yes, the new system is fairer for everyone and especially individuals that complained they never got tags as they were not part of a group. But now that many got their adult tags, good luck getting another adult tag anytime soon.
Question…. I’m 67 years old and claimed a tag 2 years ago. The area I hunt requires about 20 points to get a tag, and I will not be hunting any other area. Should I save the $15 and not apply for a tag anymore? Just buy a moose license and party hunt in our camp? I know it’s only $15….
Guess it depends on how long you plan to keep hunting moose. I'd say throw the $15 in for the draw, it never hurts to take along a calf tag with you if another guy draws an adult. Once I draw my bull tag I'll get designated calf tag guy after that.Quote:
Originally Posted by ysyg
Our camp is at the top end of WMU 50. We haven't been able to Moose hunt for the the reason you sited,but,we still hunt small game,Bear and Deer. We've also noted that there's been very little Moose sign around for quite some time,now. This past season,the crew hasn't seen any Moose sign and we got skunked for Deer,too. Whatever is happening can't be good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
It depends on your group, the number of hunters, the hunters ages, points required for a tag, etc. The reality of the situation is that with groups consisting of senior hunters, they can eventually reach a point where no one in the group will be eligible for a tag for several years or they will quit hunting before then. No tag = no hunting.Quote:
Originally Posted by ysyg
The guys in my deer hunting camp are all getting up there and I’m the youngest at 62. Chances are, in 10 years, I’ll be the last guy hunting.:(
That's the concept the younger hunters don't seem willing to grasp. They need to understand that with government bureaucracy,once something is lost,it rarely,if ever,comes back. Look how long we had to fight to get the Spring Bear hunt back and even then,they had to be dragged back kicking and screaming.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Menard
Well the spring bear hunt was about the public impression that we were leaving orphaned bear cubs in the bush. Not about wildlife management.
I don’t know (doubt it) that the moose heard will rebound but if the numbers increase I’m sure the tags increase. But there are lots of problems to solve before that happens
The only east one to solve is to reduce tags which they did. The others are a political mess that no one seems to have the appetite to tackle
LOL it was the Political mess the Conservative Premier Mike Harris caved into which led to the cancellation of the Spring Bear hunt. Putting people out of work up north, upsetting our American hunting cousins and GOING AGAINST THE RECOMENDATIONS OF HIS OWN MINISTRY AND THE OFAH. Then causing more pain and expense with bear re locations programmes. ALL TO SAVE A FEW SEATS IN AN ELECTION. Thank godness we had a Liberal government re instate the hunt here in Ontario.Quote:
Originally Posted by FishHog
No one talks Politics in this thread,no boasting about the "right"and no mention anywhere of negativity towards the left in Canada/Ontario in the post.Nothing really gives a reason to "defend"anything Political.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
Why resurrect a dead(at least seemingly ??)feud on this Forum?
Why ask the question if you don't want the cancer to resurface?Quote:
Originally Posted by gbk
Its a rhetorical question so no answer needed or required.
Was having a nice discussion on the current system so lets not go backwards.
Well aware. It was a very poor political decision not a wildlife decision. Unfortunately no party is beyond buying votesQuote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
But on the bright side it allowed the bear population to flourish and as soon as bear issues were an issue it the cities that don’t normally have bear issues it was reversed
It's always about the votes. The spring hunt would have never been brought back if politicians didn't need the ridings to win.Quote:
Originally Posted by FishHog
Moved to "Off Topics" where recent posts have decided.