reduced limit

I suppose the MNR thru one right past me. I never saw a press release or announcement, nada. In their wisdom they have reduced the daily bag for snowshoe hare, from five to three. I could believe the rationale for parts of southern ontario. Give me a break, you are allowed to snare north of the french and mattawa . How can you control your daily bag limit setting snares. Wait don't tell me, now your only allowed to put out 3 snares. Have I got this right, your bag limit is higher for grouse than snowshoe hare.

Sorry my mistake, that bag is for the falconry people :o

so you might be peeved with a reduced limit? Have to admit had a laugh reading your post as you went from anger to relief with the realization of your mistake.
Anyways happy hunting and get the dogs ready.

Amazes me that the government is making conservation decisions regarding hare while they sit and watch the exterpation of our remaining Ruffed Grouse and Woodcock populations. Considering what is remaining of our continental Woodcock population, and its continual decline, I personally think it's disgusting that you can still kill eight in a day and have 24 in your possession. Same with S. Ontario Ruffed Grouse. They are now almost absent now from some WMU's. It's now so bad think some WMU's should be closed to harvest.

It's not that I'm peeved about a reduced limit. I don't believe I have ever taken my limit. That is a personal choice for every hunter.
My recent experience with the MNR and snowshoe hare "conservation", has left me highly skeptical and prone to jump to conclusions
{Insider joke regarding limits}

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Originally Posted by swampsinger

It's not that I'm peeved about a reduced limit. I don't believe I have ever taken my limit. That is a personal choice for every hunter.
My recent experience with the MNR and snowshoe hare "conservation", has left me highly skeptical and prone to jump to conclusions
{Insider joke regarding limits}

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Ah just having a bit of fun with the reaction more than anything else. When it comes to regulations I leave it to those with more letters after their names to figure it out. My responsibility is to follow the regs as best as I can.

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Originally Posted by Fenelon

Amazes me that the government is making conservation decisions regarding hare while they sit and watch the exterpation of our remaining Ruffed Grouse and Woodcock populations. Considering what is remaining of our continental Woodcock population, and its continual decline, I personally think it's disgusting that you can still kill eight in a day and have 24 in your possession. Same with S. Ontario Ruffed Grouse. They are now almost absent now from some WMU's. It's now so bad think some WMU's should be closed to harvest.

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Yup still surprised the limit is 8 woodcock double check it every year expecting a drop. Have faith the powers that be know what they are doing. I take comfort that since its a shared resource with the American's where their limit is 3 a day that if we were taking more than our fair share limits would be reduced.
In the end population loss has more to do with habitat than hunting pressure. on the west side of simcoe grouse has had a limit of 2 birds for a while now, whereas on the east its 5. I'm having about the same number of contacts on either side. If limits where the concern it stands to reason to the east I'd see none and to the west piles.
So with no extensive habitat management plan the numbers will continue to evaporate. Take away hunting and I believe that will happen even faster.

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Originally Posted by Fenelon

Amazes me that the government is making conservation decisions regarding hare while they sit and watch the exterpation of our remaining Ruffed Grouse and Woodcock populations. Considering what is remaining of our continental Woodcock population, and its continual decline, I personally think it's disgusting that you can still kill eight in a day and have 24 in your possession. Same with S. Ontario Ruffed Grouse. They are now almost absent now from some WMU's. It's now so bad think some WMU's should be closed to harvest.

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I've been thinking about this too. Had hunter reporting been in place for the past two decades for those species, they would have had hard data to see the decline, I would think. Some US states have hunter reporting for upland birds.

Here around Ottawa, I'm walking 4-8 hours per grouse flushed ! They are around, but not abundant. The bag limit of 5 per day seems like a joke; you'd be lucky to get 2.

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Originally Posted by desben

I've been thinking about this too. Had hunter reporting been in place for the past two decades for those species, they would have had hard data to see the decline, I would think. Some US states have hunter reporting for upland birds.

Here around Ottawa, I'm walking 4-8 hours per grouse flushed ! They are around, but not abundant. The bag limit of 5 per day seems like a joke; you'd be lucky to get 2.

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Would be good to have a spring drumming assessment in the spring like the states where game seems much more managed. However until forest management has a paradigm shift from timber production to wildlife management nothing will change. For woodcock there is a hunter reporting system its called the wing survey. If you hunt migratory birds and you're not reporting your take than can't blame the MNR if they are not on top of it.

The issue with reducing hare limits is that hunter take does not have a significant effect on the population. They have figured this out for ruffed grouse - that's why the limit of 5 is still in place where they are almost non-existent. Strange that they can figure it out for grouse, but not for hare.

I agree that hunters have no impact on hare numbers. When the cycle is up have fun, when its down start saving for new boots.
We rabbit hunters know that no one ever took their limit, because there wasn't one. Until the wynne liberal government imposed a limit and shortened the season by 3 months in wmu 1 thru 59. The hare population in those units is still on the same cycles it has been on since the ice age ended.
In hind sight I believe it was just a back handed way to restrict firearm use. They managed to restrict legal firearm use during 3 holiday weekends labor day, easter and victoria day.

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Originally Posted by swampsinger

In hind sight I believe it was just a back handed way to restrict firearm use. They managed to cease legal firearm use during 3 holiday weekends labor day, easter and victoria day.

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Ok I'll give you easter however if you really need to smell gun powder you got turkey on Vic' day and dove on Labour day, so bit of a stretch to say it was just an effort to restrict gun use.

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Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers

Ok I'll give you easter however if you really need to smell gun powder you got turkey on Vic' day and dove on Labour day, so bit of a stretch to say it was just an effort to restrict gun use.

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I suppose there are pigeons and starlings as well. Still looking for a legitimate rationale for reducing rabbit season in the north. Especially wmu 59,
less than an hour away.

I hunt the lower Somerville Twp concessions south of Kinmount (wmu 60) and the snowshoe hare numbers are super low. They have been since the mid 1990's which pretty much coincides with the fisher population explosion. Probably a good idea that they cut the limit back IMO, at least for the lower end of 60. Hare do not cycle down here. They never have from my observations over 50 years of small game hunting. Boreal forest - that's different. Have old friends who have/had registered traplines north of Sudbury and Timmins. It was easy to see the hare cycle mirrored in the furbearer population on their lines eg. peak of hare population would coincide with greater numbers of lynx, fox, and fisher on their lines.

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Originally Posted by Fenelon

I hunt the lower Somerville Twp concessions south of Kinmount (wmu 60) and the snowshoe hare numbers are super low. They have been since the mid 1990's which pretty much coincides with the fisher population explosion. Probably a good idea that they cut the limit back IMO, at least for the lower end of 60. Hare do not cycle down here. They never have from my observations over 50 years of small game hunting. Boreal forest - that's different. Have old friends who have/had registered traplines north of Sudbury and Timmins. It was easy to see the hare cycle mirrored in the furbearer population on their lines eg. peak of hare population would coincide with greater numbers of lynx, fox, and fisher on their lines.

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I should have said 1 thru 59. However over the years I have had great snowshoe hare hunting in 60, 61 and 62 and 67 and 64a and 66a and witnessed the population cycles in that area first hand. Its delusional thinking that you can manage snowshoe populations, especially when the only tools in the box are seasons and limits. The mnr puts 0 resources into studying or managing habitat for snowshoe hare. IE there is no survey of small game hunters in any way by the mnr. Look at the annual hunting forecast for small game "sorry insufficient data". I think I would put money on the assumption that hunters harvested more deer than snowshoe hare in ontario last year. Maybe OOD could poll readers.

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Originally Posted by Fenelon

I hunt the lower Somerville Twp concessions south of Kinmount (wmu 60) and the snowshoe hare numbers are super low. They have been since the mid 1990's which pretty much coincides with the fisher population explosion. Probably a good idea that they cut the limit back IMO, at least for the lower end of 60. Hare do not cycle down here. They never have from my observations over 50 years of small game hunting. Boreal forest - that's different. Have old friends who have/had registered traplines north of Sudbury and Timmins. It was easy to see the hare cycle mirrored in the furbearer population on their lines eg. peak of hare population would coincide with greater numbers of lynx, fox, and fisher on their lines.

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I know a couple of Beaglers west of you { monck rd area} and I have had good running with them over the years. I will be seeing them near the end of sept. at a field trial, I'll check with them and see they how they doing for hare.

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Originally Posted by swampsinger

I know a couple of Beaglers west of you { monck rd area} and I have had good running with them over the years. I will be seeing them near the end of sept. at a field trial, I'll check with them and see they how they doing for hare.

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my guess is seeing more and more. Last fall ran into more hares than have seen in previous years. Last spring one day had 4 different Jacks walk past me while waiting on a tom. This summer the number of cottontails in the back yard is just ridiculous.

The biggest Joke is the limit on wild pheasant!!!!!! How many of you have shot a limit of Ontario wild pheasant? I saw two in the last 15 years. Or even the better the limit on Jackrabbits???? I know there are pockets of jacks left but to say shoot a limit is a joke.

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Originally Posted by Frank16

The biggest Joke is the limit on wild pheasant!!!!!! How many of you have shot a limit of Ontario wild pheasant? I saw two in the last 15 years. .

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The limit on wild pheasant was more to please special interest than anything else. When the MNR realized wild birds were gone there was a change put forth to increase the limit to 10 day. My guess it was to encourage those to do their own put and take hunts. That was shut down by those who still admin the few remaining pheasant releases. North were there aren't any public releases the limit is 10

Snowshoe hare is the largest bio mass we have in northern ont.The season had always been till June 15 and in 30 yrs of hunting them i never came across another hunter.Why was the season curtailed by over a month but was added by a month in southern ontario where hares start breeding earlierThis was done .Right under the nose and with the participation of the OFAH.If they cannot be trusted with an issue regarding hares,how can this voice of ours (whisper I say) tackle the big issues .They lost big points here in the north with this.The point being, and taken here (from Thunder bay to the quebec border) that the north is not as important in the eyes of the OFAH, and I challenge anyone with facts to prove me wrong, yet every fall a motorcade comes north to play in our backyard.

The latest move really hurts. For nearly ten years the beaglers of ontario alongside the OFAH have lobbied to preserve the traditions of beagling and rabbit hunting. We reached consensus and the government passed bill 91 in june 2023. After all that work and cooperative consultation the government refuses to accept license applications under the new act. They have done a complete reversal and now are supporting a group of anti hunting lawyers and a group called animal justice. Yes the government has chosen a fringe animal rights group over rabbit hunters. The ottawa valley beagle club and the cornwall beagle club have operated in the community since the mid fifties without causing any harm in any way. Cornwall has 750,000$ facility that we are now not allowed to use. Its a crying shame.