Spear hunting in Ontario

What are the legalities regarding spear hunting? been watching some videos on the net and it looks like serious fun.

I took the following from the 2009 regs and i'm guessing it's not allowed, does anybody know any different? I'm hoping it can somehow be classified as a firearm so it could be used for hunting deer.

Big game, including deer, may only be hunted with a firearm (this includes bows). When hunting deer you may use or carry a firearm of the type permitted for hunting deer at that time in that WMU. For example, when hunting deer during a bows-only season, you may use or carry only bow hunting equipment. You may not carry a rifle or shotgun for hunting other species.

Firearms
Firearms include rifles, shotguns, air or pellet guns, bows and crossbows. You may use semi-automatic or repeating firearms for hunting in Ontario, but not handguns or fully automatic firearms. Air and pellet pistols with a muzzle velocity less than 500 feet per second may be used for
hunting in Ontario.

Phil

now why in pete sake would you want to hunt deer with a spear?

Spear hunting for deer? I can just imagine how many wounded deer would be out there? I realize the First Nation's folks did it several hundred years ago before the white man came along with their technology, but it sure seems like a "hit and miss" deal to me? (pun intended)

It isn't allowed. I looked into it about a year +/- ago, even to the point of calling the MNR. Things may have changed, maybe give a CO a call? I would love to do it! Finding a suitable spear in ON is next to impossible...they're available mail-order from the USA, but it's pretty cost prohibitive once you factor in shipping on an oversized/weapon item like that. Then you need someone to teach you how to do it properly...when I lived up in Timmins I talked to some of our Native clients and even they couldn't (or wouldn't?) help me out with learning how to use one...

The next best thing is going to Arizona or Florida or other state and hunting wild hogs with spears. There are outfitters there, check these guys out http://www.razorbackoutfitters.com/ or http://www.tnboar.com/index.php (I'm not endorsing them, just providing examples)

Matt

EDIT: PS I totally agree there would be a lot of woundies out there...which is why proper instruction should be obtained..

Thanks matt, I would liked to have made my own rather than buy one. I was watching a video by those outfitters, they are amazing.
bushmoose, there are methods such as 'sticking' where you use a long spear either from an elevated position or behind an object and wait for your quarry to wonder by , it seems very humane and less likely to lead to injuries..... i'll let these guys show you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3cy5w9Ef7o&feature=player_embedded#at=38

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Originally Posted by canadahunts2

now why in pete sake would you want to hunt deer with a spear?

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Because it's a challenge, just in the same way people choose a bow over a rifle, or a longbow over a compound, you have to get in much closer and use all your skills to outsmart the animal.
Spear hunting has been done since the dawn of time, just because there are more efficient ways of hunting, does that mean it should die off? There are more efficient ways of getting meat, does that mean hunting should die? I hope you see my point.

In my opinion, all methods of hunting should be embraced as long as you have the skill to pull it off and it's legal, which unfortunately spear hunting doesn't appear to be.

Phil

I don't know, maybe I'm too "old school", but this idea of hunting deer with spears seems assinine to me? (did i spell that right?)

I believe that in present times as well as the age old times when spears were used there were many wounded animals getting away. Back then it did not matter because no conservation enforcment existed. However now if spears were legalized and included in the list of weapons allowed to be used on deer I believe it would be a disaster because you would have many unpracticed spear hunters out there wounding deer and not harvesting the game they wound. (mho)
kill what you shoot at in season and get um on the grill:moose:

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Originally Posted by philip140

Thanks matt, I would liked to have made my own rather than buy one. I was watching a video by those outfitters, they are amazing.
bushmoose, there are methods such as 'sticking' where you use a long spear either from an elevated position or behind an object and wait for your quarry to wonder by , it seems very humane and less likely to lead to injuries..... i'll let these guys show you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3cy5w9Ef7o&feature=player_embedded#at=38


Because it's a challenge, just in the same way people choose a bow over a rifle, or a longbow over a compound, you have to get in much closer and use all your skills to outsmart the animal.
Spear hunting has been done since the dawn of time, just because there are more efficient ways of hunting, does that mean it should die off? There are more efficient ways of getting meat, does that mean hunting should die? I hope you see my point.

In my opinion, all methods of hunting should be embraced as long as you have the skill to pull it off and it's legal, which unfortunately spear hunting doesn't appear to be.

Phil

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I went spear hunting once about 25 years ago. I can't remember what we were after though :party:.

Its still illegal in Ontario and will likely remain so.

It is a challenge but if you want a challenge take up bungy jumping or sky diving. Don't take it out by wounding an animal.

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Originally Posted by sawbill

Its still illegal in Ontario and will likely remain so.

It is a challenge but if you want a challenge take up bungy jumping or sky diving. Don't take it out by wounding an animal.

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Hmmmm.....bowhunting used to be illegal to in a lot of places. Still is in parts of Europe, for the reasons Sawbill gives. I personally have no interest in hunting with a spear or and/or atlatl, but it's not a huge step from the stickbow with wooden arrows and no sights I hunt with.

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Originally Posted by sawbill

Its still illegal in Ontario and will likely remain so.

It is a challenge but if you want a challenge take up bungy jumping or sky diving. Don't take it out by wounding an animal.

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I tried sky diving once whilst on holiday, scared the out of me and didn't quite harvest me that buck i was looking for :rolleyes:
you have to remember that pursuing a challenge doesn't automatically mean you have to be reckless, i wouldn't dream of walking into a forest and start hurling spears at game, i would only consider it once i thought i was proficient enough to cleanly harvest an animal, I haven’t thrown anything spearish since I threw javelin at school! There are plenty ways that are challenging such as hunting with a bare bow as kilo charlie mentioned and these methods are accepted without ridicule. try not to rule something out simply because it's different. Friends back home in England are bemused as to why i hunt with a 'bow and arrow', they think it's not humane and not sporting like a rifle is. It’s a shame, but i know why - it's not legal there, so no one does it (except poachers at night), they know nothing about bow hunting. if it were legal in the UK and widespread, they would have a different mentality. i think that's what is going on here.

Phil

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Originally Posted by philip140

I tried sky diving once whilst on holiday, scared the out of me and didn't quite harvest me that buck i was looking for :rolleyes:
you have to remember that pursuing a challenge doesn't automatically mean you have to be reckless, i wouldn't dream of walking into a forest and start hurling spears at game, i would only consider it once i thought i was proficient enough to cleanly harvest an animal, I haven’t thrown anything spearish since I threw javelin at school! There are plenty ways that are challenging such as hunting with a bare bow as kilo charlie mentioned and these methods are accepted without ridicule. try not to rule something out simply because it's different. Friends back home in England are bemused as to why i hunt with a 'bow and arrow', they think it's not humane and not sporting like a rifle is. It’s a shame, but i know why - it's not legal there, so no one does it (except poachers at night), they know nothing about bow hunting. if it were legal in the UK and widespread, they would have a different mentality. i think that's what is going on here.

Phil

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I'm sure you do have good intentions and perhaps you might do well with spearing, however could you imagine the mayhem out there from the "not so goods" and others? We've got that now from a few hunters using firearms and bows who don't practise and aren't nearly as skillful as they should be.

most people have a hard enough time connecting with a rifle or bow. I would hate to think of some of the yahoos that would be out there trying to spear game after only practicing the weekend b4 the hunt (we all know someone like that)

Alberta used to have a couple of bear-spearing outfitters, but that's been outlawed. Makes it seem real unlikely that it would ever be allowed in Ontario.

If they would allow it, how about for bears only - I mean, as long as you're looking for excitement... that should do it.

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

Alberta used to have a couple of bear-spearing outfitters, but that's been outlawed. Makes it seem real unlikely that it would ever be allowed in Ontario.

If they would allow it, how about for bears only - I mean, as long as you're looking for excitement... that should do it.

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LOL! I was thinking the same thing!

Pretty good discussion...I had no idea that spear hunting was still something people did. BEARS?!?!? That would be amazing...should be allowed simply on the premise that if you have the stones to do it, knock yourself out! LOL...just kidding.
Seems like the sort of thing that would require some serious training...would be nice, but, don't think the gov't could really roll out the kind of course that would be necessary to prevent the problems already mentioned by others.
Now spear-fishing...(what I originally thought of when I saw the post)...I so wish they would bring back the pike season on that!!! So much fun :D

While it definitely is a primitive method, I don't think it would create a lot of problems if legalized, for a couple of reasons. First, it would likely not appeal to 99.9% of the hunting population. Secondly, the guys that pull out their gun the day before the season and put it away the day after would not want to be bothered with the practice needed to become proficient using a spear. There would be much easier methods to take game for most. I think anyone that would partake in a hunt such as that would be very dedicated to the sport.

This is a really good read, it's about Gene Morris, the self proclaimed 'greatest spear hunter in the world', it talkes about when spear hunting was legalised in alabama for the first time, no one got anything in the first year and in the second year, one person reported a kill with a spear. it seems there was very low participation, something i think ontario would see if it were legalised.

http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/h...ory?id=3645112

Gene Morris website: http://www.huntingwithspears.com/

Phil

Once I saw those porkers run off, I kinda made up my mind. Maybe they were recovered but if so they should have showed it.....As for the bear rolling off camera:sad:
One quick humane shot, thats what killing an animal is to me. The hunt should end when you pull the trigger (or relaese the arrow). Thats also when the satisfaction begins.
If you just want a challenge take up some sport that doesn't involve trying to kill something with a very inefficient weapon.

working in an emerg/trauma unit I can see spear hunting would be good for business. Gives the game an equal chance to get you and you get to spend hours tracking wounded animals. Search the web and you will be surprised the animal caused injuries listed --esp. hog hunting. It makes as much sense as when they did a trial of allowing succinylcholine (paralytic drug) on arrows to "quickly" kill deer -- many hunters got a near death experience because of sticking themselves in falls. I would suggest you discuss with your life insurance company if you would be covered while engaging in this high risk behavior (not to mention your spouse --well guess that depends on how you get along).

I've seen that one a few times and its about as close to a gut shot as you can get. Wonder why there's no pic of the hunter with his kill?

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Originally Posted by gordymohr

That "wild" boar in the first video didnt look all that wild to me. As for the spear hunting, I do recall somebody getting charged with spearing a bear not too long ago, but I cant find it. Heres what I did find. Check this out.

http://s215.photobucket.com/albums/c...spear-0000.flv

Gordy

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Geez what a way to kill an animal. Even it it was legal, i could never do that. Does anybody know where that bear was shot? Kinda seems weird that there is a spear season for black bear.....

"This is a really good read, it's about Gene Morris, the self proclaimed 'greatest spear hunter in the world', it talkes about when spear hunting was legalised in alabama for the first time, no one got anything in the first year and in the second year, one person reported a kill with a spear. it seems there was very low participation, something i think ontario would see if it were legalised."

that gene morris is real modest too eh

Dont know of too many deer that would run after this hit

Isn't it legal in Quinte in the spring ?

Oh ya,,, sorry my ignorance ,,,, They call that fishing .

My bad !

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Originally Posted by patvetzal

If you just want a challenge take up some sport that doesn't involve trying to kill something with a very inefficient weapon.

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i wouldn't say too inefficient, it kept the human race alive long enough to invent guns!

Phil

I'm really beginning to wonder about some of the videos on Wild TV.Actually,they're starting to P--- me off.Some of these hunting shows are filmed in "high fence" ranches. Where's the fair chase in that?. Other shows have extreme long-range shots that by most standards,no hunters I know would take under any circumstances.Personally,I find "trophy" hunting very troubling,but,here we go again with one's own view of what is ethical. I can still remember Dad yelling at me "put that thing down before you poke your eye out!!" That's about how I feel about spear hunting.

Philip, I think if you read back through the history of warfare you'd find that a large proportion of those wounded died a lingering death as a result of infection from their wounds. Theres a reason those types of weapons are referred to as primitive.

i also think you would only find guys that where very dedicated try this and it would not be for every one .also not much worst than 4 guys that unload slugs and ssgs at a deer running across an open field knock it down get back up knock it down .it would be a waiting game .i have been to bull fights and seen bulls killed with a sword that did not suffer like some wild game just my 2 cents but why not

Dedicated? I wish I could believe that but you don't have to go further than YouTube to see that stupid people will try stupid things at least once.

Philip140, After watching the clip on you tube that you sent the link to I am shaking my head. Why would anyone want to kill an animal that way. We should have more respect for the animals we hunt. We as hunters owe it to them, Also why don't you change your profile pic to something that you did not shoot out of season. Sorry but some of the crap people talk about on this form drives me nuts.

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Originally Posted by philip140

i wouldn't say too inefficient, it kept the human race alive long enough to invent guns!

Phil

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There's no arguing that we, the human race, are the product of successful hunters. However, I don't think that means we should regress back towards our primal ancestors. When they were hunting for food, their very survival depended upon getting it anyway they could, efficient or not. I'd like to think we have progressed beyond that?

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Originally Posted by blacklab

Philip140, After watching the clip on you tube that you sent the link to I am shaking my head. Why would anyone want to kill an animal that way. We should have more respect for the animals we hunt. We as hunters owe it to them, Also why don't you change your profile pic to something that you did not shoot out of season. Sorry but some of the crap people talk about on this form drives me nuts.

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Ouch!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by blacklab

Philip140, After watching the clip on you tube that you sent the link to I am shaking my head. Why would anyone want to kill an animal that way. We should have more respect for the animals we hunt. We as hunters owe it to them, Also why don't you change your profile pic to something that you did not shoot out of season. Sorry but some of the crap people talk about on this form drives me nuts.

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Why do you think its a pic from out of season? Squirrel is until the 15th of December, and there very well could have been snow on the ground then? I'm just wondering?

he posted the pics last year on Jan 2009 "my first kill as a hunter" and went on to tell us all about how shot them that day and we all told him to check the regs. I just think that if you do something wrong and did not know it is ok to say sorry but don't post pics of it and keep them up.

Clearly this topic has gone downhill fast, from a healthy debate to personal jibes.
This started as a discussion about an alternative way to hunt, I see now it has been met with dislike, so I won’t go any further with it.

With regards to squirrel hunting, here’s the permission I needed for a spot of pest control after a nest of them got into the roof space:

Protection of Property
Generally, on your own land, you may harass, capture or kill
wildlife to stop that wildlife from damaging your property. This does not apply to moose, caribou, elk, endangered species or the trapping of black bear. White-tailed deer may be killed or harassed and black bear may be trapped with an authorization from the ministry. You may also use an agent if the agent is authorized by the ministry or belongs to a class of agents pre­scribed by the regulations.

I can’t wait to see where this is going to go, no doubt downhill further….

Phil

I'd like to spear hunt.
All those that propose it would lead to more wounded animals are guessing.

The ad-hominem attack on Phil is unwarranted, and childish.

Good post Phil.

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Originally Posted by gordymohr

That "wild" boar in the first video didnt look all that wild to me. As for the spear hunting, I do recall somebody getting charged with spearing a bear not too long ago, but I cant find it. Heres what I did find. Check this out.

http://s215.photobucket.com/albums/c...spear-0000.flv

Gordy

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This might be the story you were talking about.

http://www.chroniclejournal.com/stories.php?id=173276

It's the top part of the 'story'. The rest is a summary of other violations.

It would definitely be challenging, that's for sure! It's difficult enough getting within range with a bow that I think spear shots would be extremely few and far between. Plus, there's gotta be a huge potential for crippling/wounding shots with the spear.

I know this is an old post, but I was searching for the topic and found this page.

I think the legal issue here is because the Ontario law requires the penetrating object (whether it be arrow, bullet or spear) to be propelled to a faster speed using a device (whether it be gun, crossbow or bow) which they consider to be a "firearm".

Thus I am curious whether a spear gun (which would really be more like a crossbow that shoots spears) would probably be legal so far as it fulfills the legal requirements for hunting with a crossbow.

It would be a bit like hunting with a windlass ballista - overkill for the poor deer - but at least it wouldn't be in any pain and dead very quickly.

On a side topic, spear fishing is legal in Ontario correct?

I am going to guess spear trapping is illegal.