The Syndicate

Just looking for some information. Over the years there is an area east of Simcoe St in Port Perry and south of the causeways that has commonly been referred to as "The Syndicate". It is supposedly a private group or groups that has control of a large area of swamp and woods. Out of curiosity, does anyone know exactly what "The Syndicate" is and how long it has been in existance. I am asking just for historical reasons and other people have asked me the same questions. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks.:moose:

To the best of my knowledge it has been privately owned since the early 1900s there is a gameskeeper and consists of a wealthy group of hunt club members, they also own to the north which is part of lake scugog,This topic has been brought up before here as well

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by megabucks1

Just looking for some information. Over the years there is an area east of Simcoe St in Port Perry and south of the causeways that has commonly been referred to as "The Syndicate". It is supposedly a private group or groups that has control of a large area of swamp and woods. Out of curiosity, does anyone know exactly what "The Syndicate" is and how long it has been in existance. I am asking just for historical reasons and other people have asked me the same questions. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks.:moose:

---

Don't waste your time my friend. They are a bunch of Bay St lawyers who use the land for client duck hunts are complete elitists. They have owned those lands for many many years and while they only hunt it a few times a year they absolutely refuse to let anyone else use it. A friend of mine wrote them a very nicely worded letter politely asking for permission and he never even received a response letter back. Locals told this individual to go ahead and use the land and not bother asking but he does not consider that ethical. All he was looking for was an answer and they did not even have the common decency to write him back even if the answer was no.

That being said, when they originally purchased the land it was just that...land. Since the original purchase, large portions of the land are now under water and technically they do not own the water, only the land under it. Therefore, there has been a lot of talk about getting more and more people to venture over to their area in boats as there is nothing they can do about it. I personally do not see a point to this other than to really tick them off but I guess some locals are really po'd about how these people operate. Many feel they gave themselves the name "The Syndicate" but locals refer to them as "Sin Dic Ate" LOL!!! Kinda funny I suppose.

Here is a link about the land I believe you are referring to as well as some other information about the heritage of Scugog.
http://www.scugogheritage.com/misc/scugogmarsh.htm

Redneckhillbilly, thank you an interesting read, always wondered about " The Syndicate " ....what I figured was dead on, "KEEP OUT "....would be a nice place to canoe in, an Ontario Everglades....maybe they will open it up for eco tours, I think not, it is kept in the family, for the family (who very likely has enough cash), which is sad, as so many of us, so close by...cannot even take a look.... as the "gatekeepers" are paid to keep us (kick us), the public out....thank heavens for Crown land.
Al

That is quite the interesting story. Thanks for posting

Many thanks Redneckhillbilly. I have been around for ages and heard various stories but the historical article really cleared it up. I had no intention of trying to go there but was interested as are some of the locals.
It seems like a similar setup to the Emily Creek Hunt Club which controls the south end of Emily Lake and has signs posted as "No Trespassing - This is a non-navigatable waterway - So Proven in Court".
Again, Thanks - Megabucks1:moose:

I geuss I've been pretty lucky to of paddled around in there before when I was doing some student work with the MNR back in the early 90's. We built a few Osprey nesting platforms and did some fish creel census work. I knew it was private but never knew it was a bone of contention. Never been back on that side since, always got a kick out of the constant supply of bucket fishermen hitting that causeway though:).
Those caretakers are slacking, that place needs a paint job:scream:

Again, just goes to show how what money and corruption of local politicians can do. Now imagine instead that some high rollers bought up Lake Simcoe back in the day and had it declared a private lake with no rights for anyone else to use. The whole thing burns my balls.

ok let me make sure I understand. If I buy some area and don't let anyone hunt it but myself I'm a landowner exercising my rights but if I buy it with a group of guys and we happen to be professionals from the city suddenly I'm a problem? Should where I live influence who can hunt my land? Come on guys! Want to hunt the ground do what they did. Get out your cheque book and pay.

The land probably does not see a lot of hunting pressure witch makes it a great wetland for groups like Ducks Unlimited. And as far as the trespass it is no different then some guy owning a 300 acre piece of bush land on the outskirts of Pickering , there are probably insurance liability risks as well when you let John Doe Public on your land with firearms. Any how in the next 20 years the township will put a no discharge law in that area and sometime down the road it will most likely be back filled and made into a shopping mall.

Growing up in Bowmanville in the 50's we spent many hours trying to figure out a way to hunt the "syndicate". No one would compain if we launched a canoe from the causeway during the fishing season, but as soon as duck opened in the fall things would change.
I once launched on the north side, paddled along the shore, hoping to jump-shoot on our way. No ducks that day, but when we got back there was a "caretaker" waiting by our car. (which was an out of area vehicle). We claimed ignorance and hadn't set foot on land so he let us off with a warning. If he had known we grew up in the area things would have been different.

I really dont see the problem here against this group....what if it were locals that bought this land long ago....would you still have called them these names? They bought the land fair and square pay the taxes on it....whats the big deal? Private land is private land.....everyone here could do the same....as mentioned, take out your check book and buy a piece of land

Don't really see what the problem here is either.

Do I like it, think it's fair?
On the surface I don't like the idea of deeded streambed/lakebed/water ( Contrary to someones post above, you will be charged if you go by boat and stay in the boat). as noted the "right" was decided a century ago. To the best of my knowledge there are other "similiar" area's in Ontario where people have deeded stream/river/lake beds. When the land gets sold and the deed is "transferred" the rights to the bed go back to the crown. So deeding beds isn't something thats practised anymore and those areas that are left are legacy ones, that will go back to the people one day.

That said, the only time there problems atleast north of the causeway is during waterfowl season. People are in the "No tresspass" area's all spring/summer and to the best of my knowledge they don't care. I myslef have launed my kayak there to do a little bass fishing on the north side.

As others have noted, whether its a group of wealthy individuals or a single land owner.
No one would gripe if it was a single person, who owned and posted land.

Yedi, I've only ever driven by this place by chance but I wouldn't call it 'land'. It was like they cut off one bay from the rest of a natural lake by building a causeway. It would never fly nowadays because of the environmental impact. Originally, the point was to drain the water to reclaim land but that never happened so the original owners were able to retain the rights to what was supposed to be land under the water and sold that to a group or rich businessmen. This group then got the area declared non-navigable somehow, despite the fact that people had been boating there for years.

I'm all for private 'land' ownership but last time I checked, waterways belonged to everyone. And this isn't some piddly creek that's two feet across. It's a pretty substantial amount of waterway and wetland. From what I can tell from Google maps, it's not any shallower than the rest of the bog. Maybe I should be allowed to find any shallow bay, dam it up and declare it private property by buying up the shoreline as that is pretty much what happened here.

It doesn't matter to me if it's a group or individual, local or not, it still doesn't seem right to me.

Isn't Scugog a man -made lake? Wasn't it a big gravel pit at one time? I agree, water beds should not deeded/sold to anyone as they should remain Crown assets.....big problem was(and still is) up in georgian Bay where we had a Cottage....I'm sure you are familliar w/ the beach wars that have been going from Balm beach and up....I remember there would be years where there were Violent attacks. If this is the case here ...then I can understand the frustration.

I could be wrong but I think the Ont. Fed. of Snowmobile clubs runs some of there trails through this Syndicate marsh , If anyone knows for sure I;am interested.

When the ownership was originally passed out by the Crown, most of it WAS dry land, then the Trent system built their locks and dams, making Scugog into a "real" lake.
We have a large marsh up here where much the same has occurred, except the owner tries to prevent fishermen from canoeing into "his" bay as he is opposed to fishing, hunting and eating meat. The OPP get called but because of the remote area they take quite a while to show up. Sometimes it can even be the next day....;)

Boozy,

As mentioned above not all navigable waterways are crown just most of it. In this case it is not. Regardless of if they bought it flooded or before it was flooded at the end of the day they did buy it and it is theirs. That same family has tended that piece of land for 100 years. They've kept it free of development and kept it safe for the wildlife that's in it (when they aren't shooting themselves). They should be applauded not vilified because the ducks and other migratory critters that are born in there don't stay in there. By extension they are a benefit to us all. I have marsh around here that is protected by people that own it and while it would be great to go in and have a pop at them we can't. But they do eventually come out.

Patvetzal

That is a problem. I kinda feel for the guy. Imagine you bought a great 100 acre piece of bush with a stream through it to hunt deer on. One day someone miles away decides they need to build a damn and you wake up to find your farm is a 50 acre piece of land with 50 acres of water. Should you suddenly lose ownership simply because someone can drive a boat around it? That's effectively expropriation without compensation.

I get that not all waterways are navigable. One that's more than 500 yards across and 20 ft deep one would think would continue to be navigable. It wasn't originally sold to hunt. It was sold to become land (aka drained). When the first group couldn't acheive this, they sold to a private party who decided to block access to it and leave it as is.

My point is that local government officials made either a stupid mistake or were on the take 100 plus years ago and that continues to aggravate people to this day. At this point, it is what it is.

Things were different 100 years ago. Today that wouldn't happen, but by the same token that shouldn't invalidate a deal that was concluded 120 or 150 years ago.

Boozy if I recall correctly theres a peice of the St Clair river thats the same. The land owner has deeded rights (for what ever reason) that extend out into the river. It may as well be fenced off from what I've been told and theres been so much trouble in the past, the cops do repsond to calls.. So with regards to "navigable" the St Clair (which gets tankers up it) trumps the bog by a long shot.

As I said, the bog isn't the only place. One day the land will change hands and when the deed is transferred the "right" to the bed goes "poof"...Thats my understanding atleast.

That's what I meant when I said 'it is what it is'.

I was talking about something like this on sat night, a friend had a fisherman charged with trespassing a few years ago, he asked the guy to leave and was told to f off. When the cop arrived the landowner showed his deed and yes he does own the land under the water. Its very rare but it does happen. If you work hard and spend a ton of cash on something then it should be yours to do with as you like.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by REMAXER

We use to bow hunt in there off the Cartwright quarter lineon the south side out of Blackstock. The snowmobile trails gave us acces to some great spots. Never had a problem but near the end they would go in a cut treestands left hanging. They were very strick about guns but I never went in till after the gun season. Spent many a New Years eve in there with my buddy watching the sun go down on another years hunt.

---

nice.

are you saying you tresspass :fish:

funny enough just yesterday I was out securing some permission. In talking to a couple different landowners the big issue is tresspassing. I believe that tresspassers give us all a bad name. In some cases tresspassing will result in the loss of hunting privledges for everyone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hunter391

I could be wrong but I think the Ont. Fed. of Snowmobile clubs runs some of there trails through this Syndicate marsh , If anyone knows for sure I;am interested.

---

Yes the Port Perry S/C does have permission to mark trails across the marsh.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pointersrule

Isn't Scugog a man -made lake? Wasn't it a big gravel pit at one time?

---

Scugog (& most of the lakes in the Trent/Severn) are man-made from when the canal was built, 1833 - 1920. I doubt it was a old gravel pit.

Things were different around Cartwright back in the early sixties. If someone didn't want you on their land then they would put up signs. Other than that we were taught not to litter, leave gates as we found them etc. The south boundary of the syndicate had some markings, but not many. The swamps were great snowshoe rabbit country after the ducks headed south and no one seemed to care. The ridges were all jackrabbit country and we could wander on the crusty snow for miles without upsetting any landowners. Then skidoos appeared along with their legal issues,,,

Syndicate property extends north of the causeway on the south east arm of Lake Scugog out into the lake about 300yds and north along the shore about one mile. It is,indeed,flooded farmland and the syndicate still owns the lake bed and still pay taxes on. It is,therefore,still private property. I've seen "No Trespassing" signs stuck on posts in the lake except for this past summer. Apparently,someone hit a post and damaged their boat while out at night,threatened to sue the Syndicate if the signs weren't removed because,under the Canada Shipping Act,they were deemed a hazard to navigation. Evidently,the Syndicate paid for damages to the person's boat and removed the signs,so,the law suit was dropped.