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Hey Guys,
Just wondering if anyone has any experience with "Woods and Water" hunting club. One of my bigest challenge in hunting seasons is to find a place to hunt. The website is www.woodsandwaterontario.com
Any advice about this hunting club would be appreciated and would help me to make decision.
Thanks,
I think there was a thread started a couple of months ago about this club. I could be wrong but it was not favarable.
That is corect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by severn don
I read the thread that you mentioned but didn't find any feedback about the club itself. everybody was talking about that is it a good or bad idea to pay or lease a land for hunting. There was no feedback for the club and its sites. Nothing about any experince with this club. For example I'd like to know that is it a good club? Is it well orgainzed and managed? Are the sites good for hunting? etc...
Any experince/advice would be appreciated.
this guy goes around and rents land off farmers and and puts his signs up I had a confrontation with him once about taking land out from under us He threatened me with a very high priced lawyer and legal action if he seen my 15 year old son or my 22 year old son within a mile of the property So we started up our own guide service and have lots of his land clients hunting with us on properties that now surround his little plots that he acquired
How is it fair to accuse someone of "taking land out from under us" if they are paying to rent land that is privately owned in the first place?Quote:
Originally Posted by jgill
jgill, do you guys not also have to pay landowners?
to the OP, I have talked to this guy a couple of times. not worth what he is charging IMO, but it all depends on what you are after.
in the grand scheme of things you might want to give it a try for a year and see what you think.
Is there any actual member of the club that can talk about it here?
Because is very hard to find properties to hunt, I was also thinking of joining the club for at least 1 year - after all $500 is not that bad really. If you sign up please send me some feedback - on this site there's not much info about the club and the quality of the properties - only negative thoughts about the concept as a whole.Quote:
Originally Posted by shikarchi
Ok, I talked to the guy who is actual member of the club. He said that club owner has number of properties (around 13 he said but dont quote me on that) that are available for the club members. You have to call and book ahead. After that you come and hunt any time. The properties are all mixed and are 150 and more km from GTA. Also the owner provides guide services and has 'other' properties for that and it is separate paid deal. Overall he was pleased with the club and his owner though I got impression that he'd rather use guide service then go on his own on club properties...
I'm not a member of the club but I have very good experiences (I am a novice/beginner hunter) with the guys guiding services for bear and goose.
AND..........
we're waiting Sean.
Sawlog, point I was making is that in my experience/view the guy worked hard to make sure that the hunters (and it was a diverse bunch of us) had a productive experience, keeping us informed of the goose fields, getting permission etc. Basically same with my bear experiences. Guiding is hard work and I believed he worked hard.
Now that's just my experience. I realize others on the thred may have a different view.....well thats what life is about.
Usually, if someone works hard to provide one service/experience, then usually, if they provide another service, ie the club, stands to reason that the other service may also provide a positive experience.
Note my caveat however, I'm not a member of the club so I have no firsthand experience with it.
Hope this clarifies.
Hey guys,
I have been a member of Woods & Water for 3 years now. I've had an amazing experience hunting the various club properties. My first year was the year I started hunting. Robert knew this & gave me some tricks and solid tips. That year I got my first turkey with my bow. The following year I got a turkey & a coyote. I would have had a beautiful Buck but I rushed it and missed my shot. This Spring after having refined my technique I limited out. 2 beautiful Toms. Not only that, but I got my young cousin involved & he limited out as well. The other thing I like is Robert's attitude toward young hunters. Normally a novice hunter under 16 years is allowed to hunt with an adult member for free. We took full advantage of this & Robert, recognizing how much we loved getting out in the woods together offered my cousin free hunting on club properties with me until he's 18. I don't know of anybody else in the hunting community that does that! I feel that Roberts annual club fee is very reasonable, try booking a week long hunt for under a grand ... Now consider, I can hunt 365 days a year if I want for less than $700 bucks (pun intended) ... I'd spend more than that on gas driving around trying to find my own properties! Anyway you slice it this club is a great deal. The owners (Robert & Brandon) are wonderful people & they do their best to help you get your game. Give 'em a call, you won't be disappointed.
R.
Hi Rogers nice to hear. This model is used in the States a lot and is very popular there. I looked at the club and only limiting factor was most properties were too far from my place. But the model works and I think it is very
popular in Florida and South Carolina...
Seems like a useful model to me. If it's run legit without over crowding it would help people get started out. Land access is the toughest part of hunting in Southern Ontario.
Haven't looked into it but really isn't it just like a golf membership? What's the fuss if someone wants to join. Thing is if they don't like it they won't sign up next year.
Don't know if I'd want to be associated with a "guide" who gets charged for shooting someones dog, thinking it was a wolf, or any business venture he might be associated with.Quote:
Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers
Possibly but than you would have to stop all associations with guys who shoot muskox illegally or film fish that are snagged rehooked and filmed as if they where legit eh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
Not sure what you're driving at?Quote:
Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers
Quote:
Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers
I have no association with those u mention and stand by what Bluebulldog is hinting at. Perhaps the fellows that are running Woods and Waters have cleaned up and are conducting themselves appropriately and I am glad some new and young hunters have had a positive experience with them but you can never erase the past. Its also possible you are simply advertising for a club that has a blemished record within the hunting community,.
The advertising part was directed more toward Roger , so dont read to much into that fish f&f.
Don't know the guy but if he had done something wrong and has made amends let it be. As has been done for other well known personalities in the field.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
Somebody asked a question. I answered it truthfully from my experience. I have no idea what you other guys are talking about, and quite frankly don't care.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter John
R.
Not sure how this works ,,the guide rents land from landowners then charges people to come and hunt this land ,Are you hunting with a guide on these places or just left to your own to roam the place and hunt it as you wish,,if this is the case it would not fly on my land ,if I lease it to you and strangers were showing up along all the time ,I think guys just give up finding there own place to hunt ,,,D
I hate to say it, but the Web Site advertising looks good.
On the other hand, I live in the Northwest were crown land is extensive, so I have no need for a service like this.
Still, it does look good for someone from Southern Ontario who can't access crown land without driving a long distance.
Keep looking at it. been thinking about It... $600 is a little much atm.. saving for a jeep
Hunt clubs in the U.S. are that price . I spoke to club owner and if the club was closer to me I would join. I do not know them.Quote:
Originally Posted by topher
I would and have. Quit watching the shows and wouldn't hunt or fish with them if I had the chance. I guess some people will alter their habits but quite often the old saying holds true...."tigers don't change their stripes". Even worse in my view when people make big bucks off it. How much happened before they were actually caught, turned in, reported or whatever?Quote:
Possibly but than you would have to stop all associations with guys who shoot muskox illegally or film fish that are snagged rehooked and filmed as if they where legit eh?
My view and choice anyways.
Ah, ok. Got it.Quote:
Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers
Personally, and only from my standpoint, I will not lend my support to anyone who breaks the law ( or bends the rules) with respect to game laws. I don't watch their shows, and don't buy products if endorsed by them. It's my point of view that if you're a guide, or a professional in the field you should hold yourself to a higher standard.
It is with that in mind that I stated earlier. But if Robs been a good help to new hunters, and fostering the sport, then good on him.
These people are building a business by filling a niche catering to hunters who haven't the time or inclination to find their own property to hunt on. It's business entrepeneurship at it's finest based on an American model. It's quite clear,though,that it's wrankling the feathers of hunting "purists" who take great pride in interacting with farmers and landowners as part of the hunting tradition to establish their own areas to hunt. "Paying to hunt" is open to debate. Clearly,establishing the concept is detrimental to those without deep pockets,but,with Ontario being the vast province it is with 10X the public (Crown) land than private,accessible areas to hunt may mean a little more travelling time,but,as a trade off in the long run? Six of one-half a dozen of the other.
I know we've waded into this subject previously maybe a year or two ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
The pay-to-play model is big in the US, because they have very little public land. Of course this comes from having a population 10X what Canada is, on a smaller piece of geography. When you look at maps of the US, the large tracts of open space are most often Federal Preserves, National Parks, or other noted managed areas. They don't have anything resembling the massive amounts of Crown land that we do. Yes, it's a bit of a drive to some, but I'd still rather burn some gas than pay to play like that.
And it will only get tougher if these types of "business ventures" start tieing up more and more properties.Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
Yes but let's not kid ourselves. Not every new hunter has the luxury of being born into existing hunting clans. Also many hunting permissions/properties are from some personal connection. So for those without these chances this model seems useful. I know nothing about this outfit being considered but I see value in the model especially for Southern hunters who aren't surrounded by Crown land. You pay to ski, golf, skate, play soccer etc. I also see it as an "option". Hunters can still jump in thier cars and drive North to Crown land but at $100 for a tank of gas that really isn't free either.
Because most landowners won't allow access even if they have an offer to be paid,I can't see it making a whole lot of difference. Besides,who can fault them if they want to hunt their own property,exclusively?Quote:
Originally Posted by TPM
Even at $100 to fill up,there's nothing like unloading gear and setting up for a day (or two) in an area where you can hunt anywhere you please and nobody can say you can't. Time well spent outdoors hunting and fishing is worth every nickle.Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
I understand what you're saying but my concern is for existing hunters getting displaced if someone starts offering the land owner money for exclusive rights.Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
Quote:
Originally Posted by TPM
TPM, couldn't agree more. When $$$ get offered then issues start. It becomes a slippery slope for sure.
I understand some folks need to seek out a guide/outfitter/whatever to hunt but I would challenge them to do some background work prior to your selection. I would hold them to a standard I am ok with. Pretty simple.....if you've been convicted of violations to the fish and game act or been charged criminally then common sense says to stay away from them as a service provider. Shooting a neighbours dog saying it was a coyote would also make this a no fly zone for me...........
I would like to let you guys know that things aren't always as they appear. This dog in particular that was shot was 100 pounds plus. It had this farmer's family scared to go out on there own land. It was vicious having cornered the guys wife in the barn ready to attack. He had to fight him off with a large stick. His son was also cornered in a fence row teeth coming at him. This dog had also killed some livestock recently on his farm. There are over a dozen stories like this from neighbours. This dog coming on their land attacking their dogs and cattle. The municipal dog catchers were not doing their jobs and the township was not keeping track of the adding complaints.Quote:
Originally Posted by krakadawn
Either way I ended up wearing the dirty end of the stick. That's all I am going to say about this long standing subject.
It is sad when animals have more rights than people. Looking back last month people in Toronto made a memorial for a dead raccoon. Framed his picture, candles the whole deal on the side of the road. Sad!!! But did any of you hear anything about the homeless man that died in a bus shelter last winter. Nope. They just tagged him John Doe and buried him.
Oh, and another thing I would like to point out while I am here now. There are guys and their buddies on this forum that are my competition and take pride in telling lies, 1/2 truths and anything they can to put others down for their own gain. I am not going to mention names because that is not the way I am!!! Now having said my piece someone is probably going to complain and have this removed. Let's try to keep this Forum truthful and positive!
Quite often conversation can bring out the truth. Lack of it allows suspicions and conjecture and assumptions. Perhaps if there was more frank conversation...there would be less confrontation. Like has been said here before there are 3 sides to every story. Often the third is exactly like one of the other two.
So,I guess we can assume that it was YOU that shot the dog? Obviously,you failed to convince the Judge which is too bad. Didn't the witnesses testify on your behalf? It would seem you did everyone a big favor taking care of the problem,but,I would simply ask why they left it up to you instead of taking care of the problem themselves when you had no authority? They would have been within their absolute right as landowners to shoot the damn thing. Why didn't they? You made a mistake and got called on it. Now,you'll wear it forever. Live and learn,that's life.Quote:
Originally Posted by GuideRob
I see this is your first post,so,welcome to the forum. It's important for everyone to see both sides of the coin. Stick around.
If none of this is true why did you pay all of those fines and the vet bills for the family who owned the dog?
It was true. He's not denying it and the Judge said so. He's trying to explain his reasoning which sounds logical,but,he didn't have the "color of right" to act as he did. That's what cost him.....dearly. Mistakes like that are like the Everyready rabbit,they just keep on going.Quote:
Originally Posted by skeeter1
so was the dog shot because he thought it was a coyote or because it was a mean sucker ,,,not sure I understand ,,,Dutch
I just read that. If he initially tried to use the excuse that he thought it was Coyote,that's pretty much a slam-dunk of guilt. You can't have it both ways. Not much else to said.Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchhunter
...and as much as it was in fact a while ago. I brought it up, because newer hunters who are asking, are in fact, entitled to know as much as they can before laying their money down. Two years isn't exactly a huge span of time folks.....Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
Guide Rob,Quote:
Originally Posted by GuideRob
To begin with I certainly would not complain about your post, in fact I give you some credit for trying to address it I'm not your competition or friends of any to set the record straight.
When I first read the report which is readily available, I wondered how could anyone mistake a large Akbash as a coyote...especially a guide. What is truly unfortunate is if this dog created all these issues and no one dealt with him. Why not tell the truth and at least get support from those who you claim were threatened by the dog and have them tell that in court. You might not have faired any better but in the public court you may have faired much better.
Irregardless of this situation prospective hunters/fishermen should check out their guides thoroughly.....nuff said.
Totally agree. For a new hunter, it is easier to pay to learn. Feel some experienced hunters just want to keep the loop as small as possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
I was a member of the club a few yrs ago.I never re joined, and it was cheaper then. The better properties were the ones that were further away.The ones that were easier to access were not so hot.And there were often other hunters booked at the same time. When you figure that you are hunting on say, a 100 acre property.It sounds fine until you realize that maybe only less then 1/4 of it was actually good for hunting.The rest is just open field. Then you show up and find there is another person or persons there as well. Hunting that close to a total stranger is not my cup of tea.Some of the properties were just plain crap.Never tried their guiding service so no comment on that but if i recall one of the better properties was one of the main ones used for guided hunts which drastically reduces the availability of the spot to club members.It might be ok for someone who has the $$ and no other alternative.Personally I wouldnt re join if it were half the price.
I booked a duck opening hunt with Robert many years ago when I was first getting into duck hunting.
He said he has a woodie hole that's loaded with birds.
I showed up at zero dark thirty only to find half a dozen other hunters there with him.
There was no hide and he expected us to assemble these bail blinds on shore in the pitch dark.
After LST it was apparent that this pond was not where the birds wanted.
2 ducks landed and six guys unloaded on them.
At ten the hunt was over and money was to be collected.
A few words were exchanged I paid him and left feeling used and abused.
His operation is at the bottom of the totem pole.
Would not recommend him as an outfitter to anyone.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ya I pretty much figured that was the case. When he was showing me some of the properties he got a call on his cell about a guided bear hunt.After he hung up he said he just had 2 hunters book a bear hunt. "There,s an easy grand"...never really sat well with me.
Alot better guides out there..save your money