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In another post regarding the .270 cartridge I had made a comment that the .270 was the minimum load for moose. I suggested that caliber acceptability started with the .270 and moved up from there. Quite a few people dissagreed with my opinion. I may be out to lunch with that opinion.
Yes/No?
it's finte, use heavy grain ammo, shoot responsibly ie vitals, know your own and .270s limits. ive taken moose and bears with it.
My uncle's shot upward of 13 moose with a 270. A 270 is fine for moose.
I agree with you 100%.
Main reason is just the attitude, skill and seriousness of alot of hunters these days.
Most people will sight in a rifle when they buy it, then hunt for the next ten years without ever firing another shot.
People think if they can hit a piece of paper at 100 yards that its good enough. For me if my rifle could only hit a paper at 100 yards, I'd start a bon fire and burn it. I need my guns to almost be punching the same hole at 100 yards for it to be "good" in my books. I take my hunting very seriously and I have a very high respect for the animals I hunt. I couldn't take it if a moose or bear got away from me injured and died a slow painful death.
In saying that, most people that I've met (up here) can't shoot worth chit, and basically spray and pray. So if someone is going to hit 'em a little far back or low or whatever, might as well hit 'em hard IMO.
I'm sure I could kill a moose with a .22, but would I say that's the minimum caliber? Absolutely not!
I agree with your statement of a minimum .270 caliber for moose.
I have a trapping partner who has dumped many a moose with a 243. I am talking about 35 years in the bush and no losses yet. In his opinion its all about knowing your gun, waiting... for the proper shot and it may not present itself, practice lots, and if it's risky Forget it!!
This guy has poked them in the nose straight on, boiler room on the side, head shots, and hump shots with a 243 Colt and a 3x9 Redfield with wicked results. Personally I shoot a 300WSM now with a scope but I shot a 308 peeper for years until the eyeballs started to show their age. Back in the day my father was a 30-30 man probably like most of yours and I don't remember any woundings growing up and we were raised on wild game. I remember conversations like "Why the hell would anyone one of them cannons" referring to a 303. These guns today (my 300 included) shoot way farther than most hunters should attempt in my opinion.:moose:
My opinion - Waiting for the ethical shot is an important factor, in deciding what the minimum caliber is.... With the proper shot, a 22-250, 243, etc etc, will easily kill a moose, if your shot is good. If you feel that busting through shoulder blades, breast-bones, tail-bones etc is something you want to do, a larger caliber would be warranted..... But I think if that kind of hitting power is "mandatory", then arrows would not be acceptable either..... Each to their own.. Everyone knows their own style, skill level and patience.
nothing wrong at all with a .270 for moose hunting
I wonder what Jack O'Conner would say about a 270. All the magnum, short magnum caze is just marketing. Love to load a dummy round stick it in your clip and watch the flinch show. Each to there own but the 270 is a killing machine in the right hands.
The .270 has and will continue to kill moose every year. A moose is like the tire on a front end loader, put a hole in it and it will slowly deflate and die. Pound for pound i find a whitetail deer much tougher than a moose. Use your .270 and dont worry what others think. The late Jack Oconnor harvested moose and elk easily with one before the days of hunting penned in ranch game for television shows with attractive hosts.
I think some of us are misunderstanding Roper's question here... He's not asking if the 270 is acceptable... He's asking if it should be considered the "minimum". I had to go find the other "270" thread to understand what others were disagreeing with, but....... It appears that some disagree that 270 is the minimum.... and that there are smaller calibers that are just fine for moose hunting.
Personally I would choose my .270 for moose... because I'm comfortable that it will do any job I ask it to.. and I like the gun.... but if someone is comfortable with something smaller... I'm fine with that too.
A Volkswagen beetle at the Indy 500. It too will finish the race---eventually.
I've shot 3 moose with the 270 Win and all three were dead before they hit the ground. My farthest shot was 160yds with a 130 grain Winchester Silvertip bullet. The bullet hit that cow dead center in the neck, smashed the neck bone to pieces, continuing on and exiting the other side. Not bad at all I'd say.
PP
You have to be comfortable with your shooting Sawbill and then "Eventually" doesn't come into play ya know what I mean Vern??:DQuote:
Originally Posted by sawbill
A 270 has stacked up a huge pile of moose over the years, It's moose medicine.
You could use a 50 Cal. But if you can't shoot worth chit it isn't going to matter one bit. Shot placement is what really matters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roper
Minimum...probably but that is also up for discussion. First year I hunted moose ( yrs ago) I talked to my ballistics guru and asked for a moose load for my 270. He sort if giggled and asked what was wrong with the 130 gr ballistic tips I was shooting. 3 Moose later, all lung shots, they did deflate very quickly...Shot placement is key!
There are a couple of "wildcats" out there that are slightly smaller and can probably do the same job but...personal choice.
I mean, this is no different than the discussion on shooting a running deer and at what stage do you make the call...it's all your confidence level and your abiltiy!
Want to learn to shoot...go wabbit hunting with a 22 or 17HMR, or yot hunting 222,223,22-250..shot placement.(BOLTS, not semi's)
Sorry if I went on a bit.
Sorry GW..I think you just said that!!!Cheers!
I would say that for the average moose hunter that only pulls his gun out for one week a year that this would be a good minimum. For hunters more practiced and versed with their gun there are likely other options.
I think it is too light, a lot more run away with an injury than are dropped in their tracks. Very minumum at least. And a lot more were probably killed by 30-30s, but those were great guns when hunting was a little different from today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roper
.270 is plenty for moose with good shot placement. I would not shoot a moose by choice with anything smaller.
I like the 270 , it shoots straight recoil if marginal so im not cringeing at the trigger break so its hits where im im aiming , Ive shot 300 win mags and 7.62x54R ( shot from prone position ) both hurt just thinking of the recoil that said i wouldnt use them knowing im going to flinch at the shot and likely wound an animal needing hastley made follow up shots which likely wouldnt help matters .
Best to go with what you can manage and punch out a qaurter sized hole at 150 yrds of course most guys site in off a bench ( good starting point ) but im guessing most dont try sitting on the ground , prone , uneven ground up or down hill all have issues that will effect shot placement and impact on target .
Il take 270 hands down if i had to step up id go 308 as a close second.
GE
I know what yur tryin to get into me Vern, but unfortunately, I know of more big game lost with the cartridge than has been taken.
A well constructed premium bullet in a .270 will do a fine job on moose if the shooter practises and takes shots only within his comfort zone. Magnums are only good if you can shoot the gun comfortably. Any gun shoots harder for recoil off the bench. If it hurts you so that you limit your practise with it - you aren't going to be a good shot. Also, it it costs an arm and a leg to shoot that magnum you may not shoot it enough. Availability of ammo is a consideration if you don't reload.
An acquaintance of our worked for Kimberly Clark. His job was to drive hundreds of kilometers of roads inspecting their condition and that of the bridges. His rifle was a 32-40 lever action. But he was able to select the proper shot and angle to access the vitals. He shot a lot of moose and only upgraded to a 7mm magnum when there were too many darn hunters spooking the moose and he had to shoot at 100 yds.
Hell, the .257 Roberts was used to shoot elephant with a proper bullet and accurate placement.
the 270 win should be fine for moose...'have taken 4 elk with this caliber but prefer a 3006 or 300WM for moose just to get the heavier bullet in play. The 270 is a great all around caliber and adequate with a proper shot placement......
The 270 was a favorite of the late Jack OConnors.
The .270 is quality cartridge good for moose hunting with the right load. They have been killing moose for years in Scandinavia with 6.5x55 Mausers.
to comment on my own post - All this great info, comments etc regarding the .270 caliber is assuming we are NOT talking about the .270 Weatherby. The Weatherby cartridge is a cannon - the ballistics are incredible and outperforms many larger caliber loads.
Rope
With all do respect, I don't believe that a 30 06 and a 270 are going to be all that different on a moose. We're talking a 27 cal. compared to a 30 cal. and that isn't a wide gap. Not to mention the fact that I've personally seen moose and deer keep running after being shot with a 30 06 and a 308. It's all bigger bullet B.S. No matter what the gun, you have to make the shot count.
PP
Fuuny how some hunters think 0.03 of caliber or 30 grains of bullet weight makes up for 6 to 12" of a bad . An adult moose has about 20" of vitals if you can't hit that maybe a paintball gun would be a better sport.
Ps 270 is ample, as is 308. I have both last bull we shot with 308 went a good solid 1.5 yards.
I'd say that .270 isn't really the starting point for moose, but it's not all that far from it. IMO 6.5x55 is quite acceptable, especially with 156 grain Norma Oryx, which is a very heavy bullet for its diameter. It's good for moose out to 300 yards if you do your part.
This whole "argument" goes much deeper than the physical diameter of the bullet. Bullet diameter has little to do with it. Its the whole velocity, engery, taylor knock out factor blah blah blah. Ok maybe not the TKF.Quote:
Originally Posted by pawam pionki
Thats like comparing a 12 guage slug to a Barret 50 cal. A 12 guage will shoot a slug that is approx. 70 cal. And obviously a 50 cal is 50 cal. Your saying the 12 guage slug is way more powerful? You smell what I'm cookin?
I have heard that a 22 will kill a moose and that many moose were killed by 303's and 30-30s but ask yourself how many moose died a slow death by hunters using small caliber loads.
The use of a minimum of a 7mm mag for Moose is my choice.............
PS....... I use a 338 mag with a 225 gr for moose and yes 12 moose later they drop with one shot. My favorite shot placement is the hump.
..
Hmmmmm
I wonder what good ole Jack would say to the non believers
:-)
Tell me about it....Quote:
Originally Posted by Roper
Nuthin hits harder or shoots flatter than a Weatherby
:-):goodstuff:
Good old Jack took thousands of game and hunted virtually every continent in the world. How can you compare his record to a guy who's taken how many.......one..........two...........any animals??
Quote:
Originally Posted by sawbill
Jack loved using his 270 WIN and was with him on practically all his hunts....great hunter and writer
My 2 favorite calibers are in 270...a Weatherby(hence my user name) that has anchored 18 moose in 12 years, granted not the caliber we are speaking about but a beast of a cartridge
and a 270 WIN that has anchored a countless number of moose and deer
And always using a 150 GRN nosler PT...
SO type what you want, but a 270 WIN is a great caliber and will do the job.
Been down this road many, many times before.
After many successful years of Bullwinkle-hunting - using .303, 30-06, and 7mm Rem Mag - my old 6.5 Swede is my moose rifle of choice.
actually according to Wendy Kukier and the NDP a 223 which is AN Extremely powerful rifle is more power then hunters need. So it must be adequate for moose as well.:D
What I just don't understand about this whole argument is how many times has the question been asked, "is the 30-06 good enough for moose?"
Yet time and time again the same is asked of the .270. Shouldn't that make one just a little suspect of its abilities?
So, why would someone buy a caliber for moose hunting when there are obviously better choices?
I don't know, I have seen fellows on here asking if 30/06 is enough for deer and even larger calibers. But I still think it is. I once heard a fellow say you had to use magnums to kill a deer effectively.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sawbill
I have personally killed and seen killed, more moose than I can remember. The 270 is MORE than enough moose medicine.
Ha ha ha! Sawbill, you get drawn into this one every year, LOL!Quote:
Originally Posted by sawbill
I think I'll side with you from now on....your tenacity is inspiring!
You need at least a .280 to kill moose.;)
Thanks for the moral support KC. More like I get sucked in every month and I still don't learn to stay quiet. I think its a conspiracy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilo Charlie
haha you guys are too funnyQuote:
Originally Posted by sawbill
FWIW, my older brother lives in BC and has killed maybe a dozen moose, one shot each from his .270. All his shots have been less than 100 yards so good bullet placement was do-able every time.
To be truthful, I have a .280 that I use as a combo rifle for deer, bear, and whatever, including moose. But if I had ever lived where moose were the only game in town, I'd likely have bought a .30-06 instead. Small difference, really. Good thing I came from Kenora and not Red Lake.
Just be grateful you're not from Ignace. One never knows what that water from the Wabigoon could do to a man.
What Jack O'Connor actually wrote was:Quote:
Originally Posted by Camocruzr
" I do not consider the .270 an ideal moose rifle, in spite of the fact that I have killed four moose with the .270 and have never lost one. Particularly for woods hunting I should like to have a heavier bullet of larger diameter so that a good blood trail would be left at the point of entrance. When a man catches a bull moose up above timber line, where he can kill him in sight, the .270 is perfectly adequate, but in the woods it might be a different story."
The Rifle Book.
Power is force x velocity. That's it.
Hockey commentators love to say player xyz has a does have the fastest shot but a "heavy shot". Nope, speed is speed, the puck is always the same weight.
Although it is miles away from where I am now, I have Jacks book The Rifle and in it he wrote that his moose were NOT one shot kills with the .270 IIRC.Quote:
Originally Posted by sawbill
Yes speed is speed , however when you increase the velocity you also increase the energy.Quote:
Originally Posted by kickingfrog
A 150 grain bullet at 2900 fps. has much more energy than the same weight bullet at 2200 fps.
I have the same book. I thought he said he shot lot's of Moose with one shot kills, but felt it should only be used by an exceptional hunters or at close ranges under 300 yards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by contaucreek
I haven't seen living proof of something being too dead
Ever smelled our hunt camp!!??Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter300
I do it with 243, 257 ROBERTS & 7x57, no reason at all you can't do it with a 270.
M
What's more effective, a 150 gr. from a 30-06 or a 150 gr. from a .270? I like my 6.5x55 moving a 140 nosler partition around 2700 fps. Which by the way, I consider to be a minimum for moose. Also very good for just about anything in north america.
Faceman - LOL
So the ole hunt camp gets a little ripe does it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9.3mauser
The trouble with Jack was he was hung up on the 130 grain bullets. If I was told I had to do all my moose hunting from here on with a 270 it wouldn't bother me a bit. I'd just load up some 160 grain Partitions and continue to take all the same shots at the same ranges as I have with my .30-06.
As far as minimum goes, I'd be comfy with a 6.5 and a good 140 but stepping down to the quarter bore and 120's would make me a little nervous.............
Quote:
Originally Posted by sawbill
I don't discount what you've observed. I've seen some of that too. But I've noticed that the game has always been lost with the 130 grain. My experience has been that the .270 is a whole different animal when loaded with 150 or 160 grain bullets. A much better killer. Unfortunately everyone thinks because Jack used 130's that they're the right choice.
There is a vast difference in the construction of bullets and their design from the days of Jack O'Connor and the bullets that are manufactured today. as an example , now we have solid copper bullets , better bullet jackets , fused etc. the list goes on. A 130 grain bullet of todays manufacture performs better than bullets of the same weight did 50 plus years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by moosemike
Jack's hunting mostly comprized of sheep and deer , but when he did hunt moose and larger animals he did use heavier bullets .
The guys I've observed just use cup and core 130's. Federal, Remington, Winchester, take your pick. There are high quality premium 130's out there but they just seem to sit on the dealers shelves while the c and c's fly off the shelf.
In northern Europe , where non club members must prove their shooting competence prior to obtaining a tag, the caliber of choice is the 6.5 x 55.
As with all calibers the critical , deciding factor between meat and "tag-soup" is bullet placement.
You must know a few guys that can't shoot well thenQuote:
Originally Posted by sawbill
I can't disagree with the premise of what your saying but the difference between a 30-06 and a 270 is negligible realistically. I know i will catch flack for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter300
According to the Remington ballistic chart the 270 150 grain load has 2705 ft/lbs at the muzzle vs the 30-06 having 2820 in the same bullet weight. The 270 has a higher SD as well for what its worth. SO realistically there isn't a functional difference between the 270 and the 30-06 at least using the same bullets but even with 180's its around 2950 ftlbs which IMO is still not substantial or at least not enough to make one good and the other bad
This is an older thread with excellent research for a first post. I watched the video. The hunter pulled a classic frontal "bank" shot off the left shoulder bone socket that went straight to the heart and dropped the bull in it's tracks. Good job and welcome to the forum. Several of my Moose gang use .270Win. Not one Moose has ever walked away from us when hit with one of them. :moose::thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hori
We would often find that it was not the rifle, but the trigger puller that made the difference between a wounded animal or a chunk of meat....
Some hunters would always get shooting while others would always get kills, didn't matter what their rifles were.....:rolleyes:
Our group has killed a whack of moose with .270's. Not one lost!
.270 is perfectly fine for moose,black bear and of course,deer.
Good bullet selection that retain weight and proper shot placement are more important than caliber...
it is pretty much same with every caliber, shoot .375 HH in the gut and you'll never find that moose or bear.