Here's a interesting article to a great Pheasant reintroduction program. Maybe one day we can do the same here.
http://www.timesleader.com/article/2...news/302249793
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Here's a interesting article to a great Pheasant reintroduction program. Maybe one day we can do the same here.
http://www.timesleader.com/article/2...news/302249793
Interesting but how come they haven't did this here yet. I think we are lacking the right land and crop habitat to sustain wild pheasant we need more wild grasses and grain all year long and cover for these birds to adapt. Good news for PA and hopefully we can borrow some of those pheasants one day
There was a guy around our area had about fifty ring necks penned in his back yard. He would be the first to tell you how stupid these birds were. When spring came the mate was on and the hens would just drop their eggs anywhere and not look back. I assume this had something to do with the pens. Anyway about ten years back a tree fell and crushed one corner of the pen and all the birds escaped. Nobody else in the area has pheasants but you will still see the odd one on the side of the road every now and then. I don't know the lifespan of a pheasant but I doubt it is ten years so they must be breeding successfully to some extent. If the odd one can survive here with the cold snowy winters and if it moves it dies mentality that seems to overtake some of the hunters here for certain they should be able to make it in southern Ontario. Providing the yotes are kept in check.
Habitat and climate are not ideal here, even in southern Ontario. Habitat can be managed if there is the desire, cash and land. Nothing can be done about the climate (although, I guess we are working on that too). Unfortunately pheasants will always be on the fringes of their survivable range here.
I'd much rather see money spent on habitat enhancement for native game birds then continuing to introduce exotic species (pheasants).
Agreed. IMO one of the worst things to happen to upland birds is the reintroduction of turkeys. They predate heavily on ground nesting birds, and the turkey lobby wants habitat that is good for turkeys (old growth forest) and that is the exact opposite of what we need for good upland habitat.Quote:
Originally Posted by blasted_saber
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinking
Never new that...good info
When I was a kid (late 1960's, early 1970's) I used to spend a lot of time in the 12-Mile Creek valley in St. Catharines, right in the suburbs of Western Hill. There were tons of ringnecks there. It saddens me to think they are all, or at least mostly, gone.
I never even thought about the impact turkeys might have....what about when turkeys were originally in Ontario? I wonder if the coexisted well with upland birds then?
Pheasants aren't native to North America, turkeys are.
Turkeys I dont mind so much, as they were native to Ontario.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinking
Pheasants are native to India and China.
And few years back Silverdale gun Club bought and released some pheasants.I was told the coyotes cleaned them up pretty quick.
The Pheasant is a wonderful bird in all aspects,hunting, viewing, taste.They are also tolerant of man and can adapt to the changing landscapes better than most native species.It is worth the efforts time and money to try and re establish them.
He needs our help.Habitat and a little protection from predators.Yes, N dak and S Dak have yotes.But they also have endless habitat.Smaller the pockets he is forced to survive in, the easier the yote will have to catch him.
S Dak farmers cannot cut hay till 15 of july.Here by july 15 farmers are on thier second cut.
Essex county viewed from the 401 looks like a lunar landscape in winter,any pockets of remaining cover are so small gamebirds such as pheasant or quail could not survive even a few predators.
In europe,in most countries the majority of native non migratory game is released.Great Britain shoots over 10 million pheasants per yr.Majority being released.Pelee has wild pheasants,but a terrific release program as well and habitat.
At this rate,in my grandchildrens day,hunting in places like s ont for non migratory game birds will be on a put and take basis, and the pheasant will be there.
Before another Dime is spent on any program for Phasants be it habitat or a re-intro program........we must change the Regs to ROOSTERS ONLY......because the pheasant is not that difficult of a Bird to hunt....it can get wiped out pretty quick...unlike other upland species here where they have waaaay more habitat to hide in......abolish the shooting of Hens and we may stand a chance oh and clear some of the County lands/forests......nothing lives in those old Pine stands. Native Grasses are the key.
I agree with what pointersrule said. I bet just by banning shooting hens we might get a spin off population based just off the but and take programs in the province.
I have checked out many info. sites on what turkeys eat , and have found nothing to say that turkeys are predators of ground nesting birds , they do eat animal matter but in the form of bugs, insects , snails and snakes .Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinking
If you have any info. that confirms what you stated , please post as i would like to read about it.
Jaycee, I seen it with my own eyes a few years back. Walked I'm to set up on a few gobblers in the spring when we flushed a woodcock on the nest. Two young were there, well after calling in about a dozen turkeys in the same lane way the jake in the front of the flock ate one and killed he other. I don't know if they intentionally eat nesting birds but I believe they are opportunists. Maybe movement triggers there feeding instinct. As for turkeys and upland birds coexisting, they do in different habitats. As the path of least resistance developers took the easy route and took all the open grasslands in Southern Ontario first where our upland birds once thrived. You would be surprised to see how many ring necks and even quail live in city parks. My 2 cents. Get behind habitat programs.
I don't think that is it. NS has lot's and has for almost 50 - 60 years. I think competition with the turkey's. There's lot's of grass and grain here in Russell and perfect habitat but I have only seen 2 Pheasants in 17 years of living here. I was told when the turkey came back the pheasant's started leaving.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom gobble
Unfortunately I think our government is so broke right now that any "new" programs whatever they are habitat or introductions are out of the question. It would have to be entirely financed by the private sector. I have said it before, i would turn Manitoulin into the same setup as Pelee Island. It would inject a pile of money into that economy and with them having a late deer season it wouldn't have to conflict with that.
Another possible location would be Amherst island near Kingston. The put and take scenario from Pelee island could work on these other islands. If the landowners could benefit financially then they may show interest. Amherst is not large, maybe try Quail only there?
Not enough grassland and too many tall trees bordering fields which makes it easy for birds of prey to diminish Pheasants.
Reintroducing wild birds is a start but we need the habitat to sustain them and protect them from predators.
Anyone knows of a place with thousands of acres of grass and weed and no tall trees on the fence lines in Ontario?
I've seen them in Iowa and where I have hunted wild Pheasants in Michigan..
btw. There's not much phez left in Iowa and parts of the state you can see open fields with no cover whatsoever horizon to horizon.
Turkey vs grouse debate comes up once in a while. I think 100 years ago there was more of everything, so the co-existed, now there's little cover left for grouse, so turkey's predation is more critical. I asked wildlife biologists from MNR about that - they shrug their shoulders, perhaps they don't want to get into that...
I dont knw why pheasants havnt had good luck here in Ontario and the climate here isnt the reason,just look at Saskatchewan. We have lots of ring necks and our winters are harsher then Ontario. Same as the coyotes wouldnt have that much of an impact as Sask has more coyotes then Ontario. So only thing I can think of is food/habitat. Way more grain fields in Sask.
When I lived in St.Catharines I did see about 3 or 4 but that was in a 10 year period. So they are around there just very few.But the last time I lived in St.Kitts was 4 years ago. So that might of changed.
Turkeys will eat absolutely anything they can get down, including young grouse in June.
Nothing I love more than grouse hunting.
Theres talk of wanting to introduce turkeys into the Timmins area. I personally dont think they will survive the extremly cold winters and the snow cover which will prevent them from feeding. They still need permission from the MNR to introduce them here.
I dont like the idea. Seems like a gamble for the opportunity at one bird per year. If your that desperate for a turkey, you can travel further south and go get them IMO. Dont jeopardize our upland game for one of these birds.
in the good old days there were alot of pheasants in the windsor area. there are still some as i seen about 10 birds last week feeding in one field right inside the city limits. there is a little maybe 10 to 20 acre parcel of land that is undeveloped and that is where we used to hunt them many years ago. they can servive if given the chance.
I beleive it was the the possums that have decimated the Pheasant and Quail in Essex county.
Befor they showed up we had a great population of Game birds.
just my opinion
I think that if we are going to get anyone outside of the hunting community excited about game birds they had better be native. Personally, I would get behind the effort to get Northern Bobwhite up to huntable numbers before I would get excited about pheasant.
There is actually a fair amount of science behind this and it is well understood what pheasants need. There are colder and less hospitable places than SW Ontario which support large pheasant populations. The two keys are cover and not shooting the hens.
Full article here: http://www.ontariooutofdoors.com/hun.../?ID=74&a=read
This is a key concern, says Mike Parker, a biologist with Pheasants Forever in Michigan. "The biggest limiting factor on a pheasant population is the lack of secure nesting cover," he said. "You need big blocks of undisturbed cover that's not hayed or mowed during nesting season. Predators have little impact in areas with large blocks of quality habitat. If predation is a problem, it's often a symptom of insufficient habitat."
Though hunting was virtually a non-issue with the reintroduced birds, Parker also suggests Ontario's current pheasant-hunting regulations are not conducive to population rehabilitation. Ontario is one of the few jurisdictions that allow hens to be taken. Hubert concurs and says major regulatory changes should be considered if the programme is to be reinstated.
A landowner where I hunt deer in 91 killed to wild hens while cutting first hay of the season. both were nesting in the hay field. I had seen and heard pheasants there for years, periodically. However we haven't seen one since. So I do believe it is cover and land use strategies. Can't blame farmers for doing there job
That's sad.Quote:
A landowner where I hunt deer in 91 killed to wild hens while cutting first hay of the season. both were nesting in the hay field. I had seen and heard pheasants there for years, periodically. However we haven't seen one since. So I do believe it is cover and land use strategies. Can't blame farmers for doing there job
30yrs ago..near Winchester there were pockets of pheasants..the MNR had sharptails there as well...used to put up Bobwhite...though I never did shoot any...was after Hungarian partridge...having hunted wild pheasant in the west of Canada...they need undisturbed nest sites and a lot of thick swale and cover like cattail marshes and grasses to overwinter....farmers need incentives and sadly Govt isn't about to do that...they can survive our winters..its finding as has been said large tracts of nesting sites and NO hens in the bag limits....IMO..
What ever happaned to them? I have lived here for 18 years and durring that time I have seen one in Marionville and 1 down by the bog.
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Originally Posted by recurve40
I hunted some great private land acreages..in between Kemptville..Mountain and Winchester...was about 20-30yrs ago...I was told by an MNR biologist awhile back that the #1 culprit was cover loss due to liquid manure farming....no cover no food no birds....I was hunting rabbits with my bow on one property near Mountain...off 43 ..20yrs ago....season closed for birds...my springer got into some cattail crap and put out a bunch in minutes....obvious they wintered in that part of the farmers property....I went back 5yrs ago..mthe same farmers son in law told me they hadn't seen any birds in years....I walked that all day...put out nothing.....and no one was hunting it...
Hey Recurve...how are the Huns doing up that way? You can PM me if you wish.
Regards,
PR
Thanks for the interesting article. Based on the comments it looks like there would be a lot of challenges to such a program here... perhaps a program for enhancing the numbers of one of our native species may be a better option?
I don't think that hens should be in the bag limit for wild pheasant either. In June of last year I sent an email to the MNR:
"I am worried about Pheasant in Ontario. My belief, is that the taking of wild pheasant should be limited to roosters only to promote population growth. In terms of game preserves, both hens and roosters should still be allowed - perhaps a tag could be applied to the hen to distinguish a farmed bird from a wild bird.
Thank you for your time."
The response I got as below:
"I was forwarded your e-mail regarding pheasants and I’m pleased to respond. Wild breeding pheasant populations were established in Ontario as a result of many years of releases. The releases were successful in part because the mixed, low-intensity agricultural habitat present prior to the 1950’s was very good habitat for pheasants. Hens were added to the bag limit many years ago because large numbers of pheasants were reported to cause agricultural conflicts. While the shooting of hens may have contributed to pheasant declines in some areas the greatest reason for decline has been the loss of grassland habitat. In addition, the same types of releases that led to established populations of pheasants may have contributed to their demise because pen-raised birds presented risks to pheasants that had adapted over time to living in the wild.
MNR’s Aylmer District attempted to rehabilitate pheasant populations a few years ago by releasing wild birds trapped in Saskatchewan in two areas of southwest Ontario. These birds were protected from harvest in their core release areas. This effort was unsuccessful and the outcome further pointed to lack of suitable habitat as the problem.
Most free-ranging pheasants in Ontario are now thought to be pen-raised birds or their immediate descendants with naturalized wild populations largely gone. There has been some discussion in recent years about reviewing small game policies and regulations. Should any future changes be considered there will be an opportunity for the public to provide their input.
Thank you for writing to share your concerns."
While the above is a pretty good summary of Ontario's pheasant story, the following part is patently WRONG:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cintax
"MNR’s Aylmer District attempted to rehabilitate pheasant populations a few years ago by releasing wild birds trapped in Saskatchewan in two areas of southwest Ontario. These birds were protected from harvest in their core release areas. This effort was unsuccessful and the outcome further pointed to lack of suitable habitat as the problem."
The Aylmer pilot project was a success by all accounts. The operative word is "pilot". Less than 300 Saskatchewan birds were released over 2-3 years as a trial to study the birds and the habitat suitability. It was NEVER meant to be a re-introduction program. The pilot project was a success because it gave MNR biologists the info they needed to proceed to the next stage (re-introduction), had there been funding and political will.
Some years ago Pennsylvania did something similar. They conducted a pilot project to test the waters, after which they proceeded to a re-introduction consisting of releasing over 1000 birds per year for 10 years. 10,000 birds after proper study; now THAT is a re-introduction!
They had the money to do it , our Ministry and province is BROKE.Quote:
Some years ago Pennsylvania did something similar. They conducted a pilot project to test the waters, after which they proceeded to a re-introduction consisting of releasing over 1000 birds per year for 10 years. 10,000 birds after proper study; now THAT is a re-introduction!
That's for sure. Just a shame that the MNR would make a statement like that; characterizing it as a failed re-introduction, when it was never meant to be a re-introduction. Much hard work by good people at MNR went into the pilot project and much was learned. The birds actually survived longer than expected.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
Whether you call it a failed reintroduction or a pilot project, the problem is the same: insufficient grasslands. Pheasants absolutely need large areas of grassy cover, which are now absent from the landscape. Releasing thousands of birds gets you nowhere until that problem is addressed and the fact is that the will to address it does not exist. We'd be asking farmers to change how they operate and to do that in a reasonable, fair way, we'd need to offer incentives. And where would those incentives come from, given our economic shambles?
I understand the CRP program is falling on hard times in the States for essentially the same reason.
Now, if we could get the habitat back, and started reintroduction, then part of that plan ought to be roosters only.
Bang on. Habitat is everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by welsh
Hi everyone I'm from Toronto and I i've been training my dog for the past three years maybe for actually on the same 2 wild pheasants in little bush of crownland beside the highway nice to see them but never see lil ones or more it's the same to birds
LOL...Those two birds have so much exposure with your dog they're on a "first name" basis with him!Quote:
Originally Posted by OnPoint
In the early 80's I used to see pheasants near Finch & Keele in Toronto all the time! It was a joy to watch them walk around the creeks and they never ran because they apparently had no concern about being attacked. Hunting out of town however, I have never encountered a pheasant anywhere outside a game farm or private release area.
A few of us are planning a private release of about 200 birds this spring. Licences have been obtained and birds have been reserved with a deposit. Other land owners nearby have already done small releases and claim to have seen birds around long after the initial release. We are going to work on the habitat as well and see if we can get a population going!
My theory is that birds would have naturally spread to other places from where they are normally plentiful. The fact that they are not spreading must be because of our harsh environment and lack of suitable habitat as mentioned above.
Still, we can be hopeful and keep doing controlled releases. Our MNR might be broke, but private individuals are allowed to purchase permits and raise birds to legally release into the wild.
This is our first year but we are determined to do our best and give these birds a chance to survive the next winter. If we somehow succeed and create a few breeding pairs out there, plus continue releasing more birds every year, then we just MIGHT establish a pheasant population in that area. Wish us luck! :)
My advice would be to stagger your bird plantings, don't drop them all at once. I think you will find most won't live more than a week before becoming owl/hawk/fox/coyote food.
And if you truly want to establish breeding pairs, don't shoot the hens.
Like I mentioned to you the other day....if your planning on doing this to have a fun couple of shoots...then go for it but if your doing with the intention of starting a breeding population...not a chance....heres why, the birds you are releasing are hatchery birds and have no wild instincts in them whatsover......some will make it beyond a week or more....most will be toast by the next weekend....if you or anyone are serious about this this what might help you and I have seen the sucess with my own eyes....its called "The Surrogator"...click the link below...the premise behind it is that the birds are raised in the wild and have a surrogate mother for those first crucial weeks (and heat food water and shelter).Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkman
http://wildlifemanagementtechnologie...nal_Surrogator
Good for u guys. I have herd of the surrogator working well, I have also herd from land owners down in the U S stats having success with releasing young birds, between 4 and 6 weeks old. The theory being they adapt faster to the wild at a young age and it has worked mind u these are rich ranchers that have sunk a lot of money into habitat work.Quote:
In the early 80's I used to see pheasants near Finch & Keele in Toronto all the time! It was a joy to watch them walk around the creeks and they never ran because they apparently had no concern about being attacked. Hunting out of town however, I have never encountered a pheasant anywhere outside a game farm or private release area.
A few of us are planning a private release of about 200 birds this spring. Licences have been obtained and birds have been reserved with a deposit. Other land owners nearby have already done small releases and claim to have seen birds around long after the initial release. We are going to work on the habitat as well and see if we can get a population going!
My theory is that birds would have naturally spread to other places from where they are normally plentiful. The fact that they are not spreading must be because of our harsh environment and lack of suitable habitat as mentioned above.
Still, we can be hopeful and keep doing controlled releases. Our MNR might be broke, but private individuals are allowed to purchase permits and raise birds to legally release into the wild.
This is our first year but we are determined to do our best and give these birds a chance to survive the next winter. If we somehow succeed and create a few breeding pairs out there, plus continue releasing more birds every year, then we just MIGHT establish a pheasant population in that area. Wish us luck! :)
Fishhawk...the Surrogator gives them a place to hide from Predators when they go to Roost (sleep at night) amongst all the other benefits such as food, water and heat....it just up's your percentages of survival for the birds you release....if I had my own land......I would have 2 of these.
Surrogator looks cool however I think old school still produces better results. Several Bantum chickens can incubate a clutch of 12-15 eggs each. Left too brood the hatched chicks and raise them free range the resulting birds would have the best chance.
[QUOTE][/QFishhawk...the Surrogator gives them a place to hide from Predators when they go to Roost (sleep at night) amongst all the other benefits such as food, water and heat....it just up's your percentages of survival for the birds you release....if I had my own land......I would have 2 of these.UOTE]
I agree, if i had my own land surrogator for sure. They seem to work especially well with quail.
The surrogator you say, eh...? Hmm.... Sounds pretty good but fairly expensive for my taste and what we are planning to do.
We are just a bunch of guys who like to hunt and we've been friends for a while, so we are HOPING for some kind of success.
Our "captain" owns the property and is doing everything by the book, meaning he has talked to the MNR, obtained a licence, studied the rules, and spoken to others as well. A neighbour had previously released pheasants and he thinks he's seen survivors.
We will build a large pen for these chicks, right in the environment where we intend to release them. This enclosure will be predator proof as can be.
Many of our camp members are experienced builders and I'll be 'supervising' them - since I can't build anything myself! ;)
Anyway, our HOPE is that with these young birds growing up in the natural environment, with food and extra shelter provided by us humans, they will not exactly be shocked by the elements when they are released.
I like the tip about not releasing them all at once by the way. Thanks for that. Not that it was the plan - I think.
Also, thanks for the reminder not to shoot any hens if possible. That might help the situation as well.
We are prepared to try this for a few years in a row and see the results. We will learn a thing or two in the process. We will plant corn and grass and stuff as recommended in the meantime. There are trespassers during the deer season but we haven't noticed much activity during moose and bear seasons. Neighbours always keep an eye on each other's properties and we have cameras and security system installed at and around the cabin as well. Someone will be there every weekend to keep an eye on the happenings.
Pheasants are not the smartest birds and we've heard they are not very "family-oriented" either. The breeder told my friend that it's not uncommon for a hen to drop an egg and keep on walking!!! Also, just like chickens, they are cannibalistic and will kill & eat their own friends and relatives!
So the challenges are there but we play outdoors for fun and this is our Flavour of the Day, so to speak. Maybe we'll get to shoot a few roosters next fall and never see any of these birds again. Maybe not.