Printable View
Hello everyone, I was wondering if you can help out with locations that have or allow archery for practice? I an St.Thomas Ontario so anywhere in or around London would be best. I have gone to archers nook but would like an outdoor location to get everything sited in at longer distances. I know of forest city archery and am thinking of getting membership but would like to check it out first.
Thank you in advance.
I thought archers could practice anywhere they liked ie soccer fields.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhitbyAlex
It may not apply in all municipalities but I know where I live the by-law is pretty specific and crossbows and bows (recurve, longbow, compounds) are defined as a firearm and its illegal to discharge any firearm within the towns boundaries. Word of advice, before you head to your local wood lot or sports field that you should check your local by-laws.
I know for sure that it is not allowed in my town hense the need to find a spot.
I went and checked out forest city archers this past fall. One of the members was there and took me for a tour around the coarse. Seems like a nice place to shoot I think I'm going to join in the spring.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor
I have a friend, that I had no idea was into archery, that will be taking out there for a tour. I have heard nothing but good things about it thus far so looking forward to it.
No offense, but did you even look at your bylaws? Or did you just assume that you couldn't?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucknetbucky
https://stthomas.civicweb.net/Docume...y.aspx?ID=2155
No reference to archery equipment at all. " any gun, or other firearm, air gun, or spring gun"
Buy yourself a target block, and set up in any park, being cognizant of what's behind and have at it. I have a friend in Brampton who does it all the time.
No where in that information does it define a firearm, many municipalities define a bow as a firearm, you need to know this first. They specifically refer to a gun, and the a firearm separatley (this may include bows and crossbows) as many others have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
Skeeter.Quote:
Originally Posted by skeeter1
I work for a municipality.
A bow is not defined as a firearm under the firearms act.
Unless the municipality issues a definition of what constitutes a firearm within the body of the bylaw itself, then a bow is not considered such. Bylaw creation is funny like that. All possible definitions must be outlined, as the politician who votes it into law, must be able to see the intent, and it's ramifications. Ergo, if it's not defined, it doesn't exist.
The Town of St. Thomas has not defined it as such, they further went forward to define what other categories are not to be discharged. the OP is GTG in his area.
i live in kitchener where a bow is defined as a firearm.
i moved from st thomas, where people would flip out if you brought your bow to the park. do yourself a favour and DON'T. Most of the cops who are great guys and gals would still pull the gun and tell me to drop the weapon if i were in a public place with a lethal weapon.
there are a few spots outside of st thomas that I'm sure you could get away with. go be creative and stay away from people. it's not a big city, so there are a few hydrocuts and ravines on the outskirts where no one would even know you were there. Consider going towards fingal where there are quite a few trails made by animals and not really many humans, if at all.
Hydro corridors are also decent open ground areas where you're likely not going to be bothered.
Do yourself a favour and do not discharge any form of weapon whether its a bow or otherwise in city limits, my muni does not use the 'code' for its definition of a firearm and makes no reference to what makes up a firearm so I emailed and was told in writing that the muni's version of a firearm includes bows and airguns. If you are fined for a discharge of firearm in city limts I am quite sure the judge would find you guilty otherwise the city parks would be full of bows and airguns, and you risk losing your PAL (or not being eligable for one).Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
Bluebulldog is incorrect in his interpretation of 'inclusion', a bow does not need to be defined and has been left that way on purpose so as to give the local law enforcement room for interpretation. The overriding rule is that of a reasonable person test, with lack of other rules you must act as any other reasonable person would. In this situation it is definately reasonable that an errant arrow could hit private property or others using the land. It is your duty to act in a safe manner.
My advice is to look around for some archery clubs and join one, its more social and you will learn lots too.
Did you review the bylaw for your municipality? Or did some desk functionary just say so? If the discharge bylaw does not define bows as being prohibited, then a person can reasonably do so. If in their back yard, or a patch of open ground within reason. The obvious caveat is that public safety isn't put at risk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marker
If your municipalities bylaw defines bows as firearms that's fine, but if it is not specified, and you are in an area that doesn't endanger the general public, then you can indeed practice with your bow.
You seem awfully knowledgeable on the law. Do you also know that it isn't a judge at all that would be reviewing any bylaw infraction? It would in fact be a JP.
Why should the OP pay hard earned money to join a club to be in compliance with non existent legislation?
I used to work in law enforcment. I am quite sure that any charge that is reasonable would go to the judge via the JP, it is the test of reasonability that trumps and results in case law which makes up most of the rules we live with. And it is through this test that shooting a bow in city limits which is designed to kill big game could reasonably do damage to personal property or cause injury.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
You can be "quite sure" all you would like.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marker
You are not a judge, and it's really easy to say "I used to work in law enforcement" on an internet forum, now isn't it?
I do work for a Municipality. Dufferin County to be exact. In the building and bylaw dept. My credentials can be easily verified. If you bother to look, our corporate offices are at the County Courthouse. Where I interact with 3 different police forces, the Crown Attorneys office, the JPs, OCJ, and SCJ on a routine basis.
If a person shows no disregard for public safety, eg they find a vacant lot, open patch of ground, bush lot, etc. They have shown a duty of care that their activity will not harm. Much the same as an individual going to a field with a golf club and some balls. As long as they are not hitting towards the playground equipment, or where people are using the area, they are fine.
Obviously all within reason. No one is advocating for persons to walk around with their bow and arrows, nor should they have their broadheads.
If the Municipality has not defined bows as probib under the discharge bylaw, nor in any other bylaw, and the person is not acting in a manner which endangers the public at large, they are fine.
I am not in by law or law enforcement but I see many works like "reasonably" and "without putting the public safety at risk" and "within reason". What two people call reasonable can be two very different things, who makes the decision what is and what is not resonable, seems like a mighty big grey area to me that could lead one down a path containing a whole lot of trouble? Given how the law typically over defines EVERYTHING, I find it hard to believe it is not spelled out in an easier manner.
I did in fact see this. I was unsure what was considered a firearm myself as I know it changes from area to area. I went one step further and made a visit to the local law inforcement and I was told that it was at the discression of the officer if I was endangering the public. As above, they also confirmed that bows were not mentioned so with that it was a grey area and recommended against it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
On a good note, I have found a location to preactice. One of the office clerks overheard my questions and offered to introduce me to her husband that also bow hunts. I know have permission to go to their farm and practice anytime I want as long as they are aware that I will be there.
On a side note, I surely did not want to start a debate and I thank all for their input on the subject maybe it will provide some information for anyone else with questions like this. My suggestion is call the local law enforcement and get it from the horses mouth. And hey you never know, you could end up with a hunting partner too lol.
Thanks everyone.
Debate, and discussion is what this board is all about.
No one agrees 100% of the time, but then, do you agree with your buddies all the time either?
I think it's all in context.
I deal with legal contracts all the time.
We sign documents between two parties, each is usually 6-7 pages long. Within the body of those documents are many standard terms, words and phrases. Behind those documents is a three to four hundred page reference book. Every word/term/phrase that's capitlized can be found within the massive tomb and its "legal" definition.
Far be it for me to say A is legal, or Illegal, what to do, what not to do.
If not sure, don't do it and/or verify with the appropriate authority.
Whitby is no discharge (antire region almost went no discharge). Bows are used within town limits. Most municiplaities that I've read do or dont define "firearm" and do or dont include Bows.
Again, dont do anything based on my say-so.
Just for illustrative purposes.
"Your honor, can you show me where it says a Bow is prohibited"
No? Its not there? I guess we are done then, aren't we?
"your honor, can you show me where the law defines what the speed limit is"
If it doesn't spell it out......Legal definitions are there, so as to remove any misunderstandings and any wiggle room.
Which is precisely what I referred to a few posts ago. Bylaws are accompanied with definitions, so as to avoid wiggle room under prosecution.
Put out this to a couple of the local cops. Their take was if the person wasn't behaving like a tool, they wouldn't care. They did mention that if they set up in a corner of a local park, having a couple of traffic cones or caution tape set out would be seen as taking due care not to endanger anyone.
i dont know any of the st thomas police who would be cool with the discharge of a lethal weapon near children's playgrounds. you're looking at a hefty fine and possible jail time if the wrong cop or wrong kid runs in front of your arrow, or even if an angry peta mother decides to make up a story. in the justice system's eyes, mom with kid or random dude with weapon... they're going to side with the family every time!
Ask a farmer. Most would be happy to let you practice in a corner of their field/pasture/wood lot. Even if they have hunters already, most guys would not mind you practicing away from their stand.
Who said anything about playgrounds?Quote:
Originally Posted by punkrockerpj
Read, what was written. A park does not necessarily mean a playground. English comprehension friend. Park can mean a large open space occupied by playing fields....often with large perimeter / periphery areas which are not used. These are the areas I spoke with our local police about, and that was the context in which it was stated.
If you are going to refer to someone practicing archery as someone "discharging a lethal weapon", then you are obviously biased right from the get go. You are not helping anyone in the sport. I've seen your posts over the last year, long on opinion, short on experience. You talk about getting your PAL, then discuss using airguns less than 500fps on small game. You asked the forums in Oct if you should be practicing with broadheads. Give your head a shake, and stay in your lane friend.
Little less drama, little more objectivity.
Science Center which receives thousands of children every week, has a public range in a park/field right behind it. That's the heart of downtown toronto. No discharge, the height of antism.
Uses to to take the bus from don lands station as a kid bow in hand many years ago. Not sure I'd hop on the TTC with an un encased bow these days :), but afaik the field (range) is still a place to go
read your by laws carefully, a blanket no discharge does not neccessarliy mean bows are prohibited. If it's not spelled out in the by laws, check with the right authority. LEO doesn't always know all the fine print. And if in doubt, don't.
Evidently I am about to leave my office, get in my 3000lb steel and glass death machine, and drive in public, unabated.
Oh wait, it's just my crew cab pick up, on municipal roadways.....never mind.
An archers bow is no more a weapon than a baseball bat.... and I would hazard to guess that, statistically speaking, a child is much more likely to get injured in a baseball game than by a bow and arrow. (just a guess.. don't ask me to cite my sources)
When are we going to grow some ..... and stand up to these uninformed municipal bylaw makers... For crying out loud... archery has been an Olympic sport for over 100 years.
And in many cases, it was not included in municipal by laws ( mine included) because the threat to public safety is minimal. Part of some of our discussions was what happens at the local high school that has an archery program? The Cub and Boy Scouts who do the same? No one wanted to get wrapped around the axle over it. If I take my boy out back to shoot the small fibreglass boy and arrows I bought him, it's inconsequential, same if we go down the road to the local sports fields at the edge where there is a isolated area.Quote:
Originally Posted by HuntCamp'r
just saying, you'll see it in the local paper. "guy with bow is told no" and a list of fines for firing a bow in public place within city limits ;)
OP, I'm glad you found a place to practice. If you wish to practice in a more structured environment, EESA has adult 3-D indoor archery on Wednesday nights (not sure if you need to be member) as well as archery trails with 3-D targets set out, and periodic competitions.
www.eesa.ca
Thanks I will check that out as well. I was just recently told that archery was there but not that they had 3d.Quote:
Originally Posted by smallgamer
I forgot to add this to my last post. I did this at the nook earlier this week. No more single targets for this guy lol.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/27/uvu2a5ag.jpg
Yup, we do. I've never fired an arrow at one but I've lugged a bunch thru the woods.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucknetbucky
Very good advice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Victor
I definitely think there is a market for more archery ranges - perhaps by renting the corner of a farmer's field that is unused for farming.
eg. My parents farm north of Kitchener has 3 sections on it that aren't used for farming.
1. A section west of the shed that is blocked by a stream and trees so it is inconvenient to get tractors in there to plant / harvest anything.
2. A section near the back of the farm, near the river, which is too muddy most of the year to plant anything.
3. A section on the east side of the farm which was paved over in the 1970s to build silos on. The silos were later torn down and now it is unused because it isn't worth ripping up all the pavement just for a tiny scrap of land.
Anyway, if you have relatives or friends with farmland my advice would be to approach them and ask if they would allow you to practice on a scrap of their land - possibly even for a small annual fee (or just bribe them with booze).
As long as the farmland is not within any city limits and the targets are away from any populated areas or roads then you will have yourself a very nice private target range that you and your friends can use.
And for those people out there who own their own farmland, please start a private club and invite your friends to join. Private clubs (unlike commercial archery ranges) don't need as much liability insurance. In contrast any place that is running a range as the business needs a whack-load of insurance and constant supervision - which makes it an annoying process to go through just so you can have a place to practice.