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Hi all just wanted to get some opinions on applying for a moose tag. For the last two years I have been applying with a group of 5 people and we only got calf tags both years. Would we have better odds of getting a bull tag if we apply individually or should we just keep trying as a group?
Generally, you're better as a group.
Which unit, by the way? That will help us in figuring out your situation.
Yes by group but as blasted S mentioned and to expand on it , WMU ? Gun or bow ? with those 2 answer's we will be able to help better?
Your group may be too small to qualify for preference in your unit. The stats will tell you how big a group of pool 1 applicants are required for your zone. If they specify more than 5 then you're probably better off applying as individuals as your group will never draw in the group selection stage.
Sorry I should have said the WMU is 47. There is no bow season just gun but I could bow hunt at the same time if I wanted to.
Yup no tag for you guy's 13 pool 1 applicant's is the guarantee for a gun bull .Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas
Might as well all apply as individuals then. Do you have anybody that qualifies as a Northern Resident? They have a small pool of tags designated for those people and they get preference over regular applicants but it is a small number of tags.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas
I have heard there are changes coming this year for the moose draw? Maybe it is just speculation though......
Apply as a group, if there is not enough pool 1 applicants to get a tag the applicants are then put in as individuals in the draw, the only advantage is that if any of the applicants draw a tag the remaining applicants are removed from the pool. By doing 5 individual applications you could theoretically draw 5 tags which you probably don't want. The other advantage of the group system is that you can transfer the tag to a designated alternate if for some reason the original tag receiver can't make the hunt.
I hope they pull the calfs tag, make it bulls only and tags for calves or cows or make the whole thing a draw only situation, we need to bring moose numbers back up.
We never use the calf tags we get. We don't want to shoot the little ones, rather see them grow up and hope to shoot them then.
Maybe you should start hunting the little ones as your odds of ever getting an adult tag in 47 are slim to none. To answer your original question, it won't make any difference to your group how you apply in the draw.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas
I agree with swampdonk. Hunting little ones isn't a bad thing if you don't have an adult tag (of course providing you use common sense). Just remember wolves don't worry about herd numbers and they will go after the little ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by swampdonk
Also the calf will eat as much as a cow over winter but won't give yo another calf or two in spring. The cow likely will give you a calf and many times two. So sparing a calf doesn't always help the herd growth. If you tag a calf you are sparing an adult calf bearing cow.
You're missing out on the best meat by not taking them as well. I'd rather not let the wolves have it.
Well mostly we all only have the time to take one week off work so we take a week for deer as we all get doe tags so its better for us to just go get some deer but if we had a bull tag we would take that week off for once and i'd just bow hunt deer on weekends and such.
The best way to get a bull tag is to organize a trip to NW Ontario with your group. Assuming you are all in pool 1, 5 guys should get you into the guaranteed group size for WMU 5 or 8.
My thoughts are that you shoot neither for a few years.Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
If you have 1 bull in the area then all the cows will be bread, if you have no calves to grow up to become adult calves then how can they be bread?
As to the OP, if you want to get an adult tag in Ontario you have to be in a big group or solo be so lucky you probably have a better shot at the lottery. WMU 47 is still Southern Ontario, very few tags there.
Yep. That's the way I'd be doing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlmorgan
I totally agree. Make the free tag the younger bulls. The calves have a hard enough time surviving their first year. I don't believe 2 1/2 year old bulls add much towards growing the population.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Using WMU 47 as an example, if you do not have the 13 pool 1 hunters for the Guaranteed Group Allocation but have 6-12 pool 1 hunters, would it be better to apply as a group to be eligible for the Large Group Allocation, or if you have 2-5 be eligible for the Random Draw Allocation?
Another option would be to try and find another small camp in your area and group up to get into the Guaranteed Group allocation
To me it seems a pipe dream to enter the draw as an indiviual in WMU 47 and expect to get a Bull or Cow tag
You lost me on this one!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Davis
As per your example how did you get the number 6 for the large group allocation and 5 for the random draw allocation. From 2013 tag numbers if you had 11 or less in your group you all were entered in the random draw allocation.
If you don't make the guaranteed draw with 13, any group with 6 or more pool 1 hunters gets entered into the Large Group allocation as per the Moose allocation draw info in the regulations
Step Two: Large Group Allocation
Next, the Large Group Allocation of validation tags is
performed.
At this step, the computer calculates the number of applicants left in the draw after step one and compares it to the number of validation tags still available. The ratio is called the Hunter:Tag Ratio. Each group whose number of Pool 1 applicants is equal to or greater than the Hunter:Tag Ratio is issued one validation tag. (Example: If at the Large Group Allocation stage there are 600 hunters left, and 104 tags available, the Hunter:Tag Ratio is 5.7. All groups with six or more Pool 1 hunters will be issued a tag.) The tag is assigned to a Pool 1 member of the group who has consistently applied and gone the longest number of years without receiving a validation tag. Another Pool 1 hunter is designated as the alternate (this will be the hunter who has been in Pool 1 the next longest without receiving a tag).
All members of these successful "large groups" are then removed from the draw.
I guess what I'm saying is if you follow the steps layed out in the Draw order, you are better of applying as a group in wmu 47 as apposed to individual.
1, Guaranteed, 13
2, Large Group, 6 or more
3, Randowm Draw (is this based on groups lower than 6 as well as individuals equally)?
I myself am trying to figure out the best way to apply if you don't fit into the guaranteed or large group allocation
What you are showing is only an example of the formula they use to figure out what size the large group allocation will be. It will be different for each WMU. In WMU 47 the guarantied group size was 13 for bulls but the large group size using that formula was 12 not 6 or more. So all groups with 12 or more pool 1 guys were issued a bull tag. All groups of 11 or less were returned to the draw as individuals for the remaining tags.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Davis
I see, thanks for the clarification swampdonk
Thanks for all the information this has really been helpful.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
This might sound familiar to hunters who apply for tags in Units such as 29, 30, 31, 33, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 42, 46, 48, 49, & 50 where there are no guaranteed group sizes.
Sam
Shoot the calf!!! The cow will go into estrus within hours and produce twins usually, even if they still have a calf with them. Just be careful Moms in distress can be unusually mean.
My suggestion is for the MNR to either make all the moose under draw including archery, and are able to hunt one or the other. Canceling the moose hunt would be horrible and a victory for the anti's.
Archery is also a tag/quota hunt. There was a time when special tags were allocated and were outside the regular gun draw but im pretty sure now everybody competes together .Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackwolf
Ontario has always been hard to comprehend the draw system for moose. I once thought it would be cheaper to buy a tag off an outfitter when I lived and hunted there. I was under the impression archery was not a draw, and rifle was. Everyone got a calf tag.
Here you pick your 3 WMU's, pay 3.99 and if you draw you pay for your tag. No group hunts etc. You can buy unclaimed tags in August.
Simple, easy, not complicated.
This. Otherwise you're giving away $55 every year to the government to basically hold a Pool 1 status.Quote:
Originally Posted by GW11
Since you guys are in Ottawa, maybe see what the deal is with Quebec moose hunting?
I got a cow tag for wmu 49 last year by applying individually, thought I won the 649. Bad news the tag ended up in the soup.
Alberta, and every other province with a moose hunt, also has a lot better moose/hunter ratio than Ontario. Im not saying our method is the best, but no other provinces system that im aware of (Quebec included) is plausible because of the hunter/moose ratio.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackwolf
Definitely apply as a group. You have two chances to get the tag you desire. If your group doesn't recieve a tag, then each individual is entered in the draw for an individual tag. Two chances to win.