newbie question of the week

hey all, as many of you know who have been helping me with my growing pains into bow hunting im new to the sport. while watching many youtube videos and wildtv I always hear about needing a certain draw weight for a certain game species. like needing at least a 70 pound draw weight for elk. my question is to all of you why is draw weight such a big deal maybe its me and I don't claim to be any type of math expert but shouldn't the focus be more so on the speed of the arrow since arrows get there kinetic energy from speed? what if two bows had one higher and one below the "draw weight needed" for say deer but they both shot at the same speed why couldn't someone use it? where these types of measurement based off the recurve and long bow?

any help/ideas on this issue would be greatly appreciated
thanks

The heavier draw weight bow will need a heavier/stiffer arrow. The extra weight of the arrow will help it penetrate better on impact. The thing is if you can't shoot the weight easily then you need to back down to a weight you can shoot well. Not a big deal when practicing in summer but when you're hanging from a treestand in late season wearing heavy clothing things are very different. A 70lb bow isn't necessary for deer but does have value in moose hunting.

Good question which I don't have an answer for, I just purchased a Hoyt Charger 50-60lb, which I was told will take anything in North America. I've heard guys taking moose with bows in the 40-50lb range

sorry I should have clarified in my first post im not having any issues with my draw weight it was just something I couldn't get out of my head haha. good call on the arrow weight itself though terrym I never even gave that consideration.

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Originally Posted by Jim Davis

Good question which I don't have an answer for, I just purchased a Hoyt Charger 50-60lb, which I was told will take anything in North America. I've heard guys taking moose with bows in the 40-50lb range

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Yes an arrow tipped with good sharp broadheads from a 50lb bow can not only pass through a full grown bull moose but it can break ribs doing it.

Draw weight is important because in Ontario the regulations require certain minimums depending on the animal being hunted.

In reality the kinetic energy imparted to the arrow and head used (regs for this as well) are what are actually important. Speed and arrow weight are important because this determines how much energy the arrow is carrying. As long as you can hit the animal in the vitals and the arrow has the proper head and sufficient energy the animal will expire pretty quickly. Below is a simple summary table:

http://www.longrangehunting.com/imag...energy-006.jpg

So going back to your original question:

- draw weight has to be above regulatory minimum for what you are hunting
- head used has to meet regulatory minimums
- if your arrow energy (based on speed and weight) is appropriate for the animal being hunted than draw weight is irrelevant as long as you exceed the mandated minimum draw weight.

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Originally Posted by Dobermanhunter

my question is to all of you why is draw weight such a big deal maybe its me and I don't claim to be any type of math expert but shouldn't the focus be more so on the speed of the arrow since arrows get there kinetic energy from speed? what if two bows had one higher and one below the "draw weight needed" for say deer but they both shot at the same speed why couldn't someone use it? where these types of measurement based off the recurve and long bow?

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As is shown below, kinetic energy is a combination of mass and speed....

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Kintetic energy is effected by mass (an arrow’s weight) AND speed (draw weight). If you would like more kinetic energy, but are at the maximum amount of draw weight you can comfortably pull back, a heavier arrow will increase kinetic energy produced. But keep the laws of momentum in mind. A heavier arrow loses speed (fps) faster than a lighter one, so your bow’s sight will need to be adjusted and the maximum distance of shots will need to be considered. Use the combination of speed and weight that generates the highest kinetic energy from your bow.

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Many states set minimum draw weight requirements for bowhunters to adhere to. But draw weight alone is not an indication of penetration power. There are other variables to consider, such as what arrow and broadheads are used and the distance of the shot. Gold Tip, an arrow company, recommends a minimum of 25 ft-lbs of kinetic energy to ethically bowhunt deer. They also state 55 ft-lbs of kinetic energy would is sufficient for most popular North American game species.

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http://www.wasparchery.com/blog/calc...-of-your-arrow

By Ontario law you need a minimum of...

39.7 lbs to hunt whitetail deer.

48.5 lbs to hunt elk, moose or black bear.

At a lower than legal poundage the arrow would be much more likely to just wound the animal and not actually kill it.

However from the advice I have received over the years most hunters prefer 45 lbs for deer, 55 to 60 lbs for elk or moose and 60 to 80 for black bear.

Also from one story someone told to me, a friend shot a white-tail deer with a 70 lb compound - the arrow went RIGHT THROUGH the deer and kept going another 30+ yards. 70 lbs is evidently overkill on a deer and completely unnecessary.

Same thing goes with bowfishing. A bow that is too powerful will drive the arrow right through the fish, which could complicate your ability to catch and extricate the fish from your fishing line.

The poundage translates directly into arrow speed, accuracy and distance. A 40 lb bow has basically double the speed, power, accuracy and distance of a 20 lb bow. Arrow speed will fluctuate higher and lower depending on the weight of the arrow, the weight of the arrowhead, and to some extent its FOC weight (Front of Center).

It doesn't really matter whether the bow being used is a compound, recurve, longbow, or even a shortbow. If its poundage is higher then the arrows will go faster. (However I should note that recurve bows are not available at very high poundages because they would break too easily. In contrast longbows can go up to 200 lbs+. eg. Howard Hill once killed a bull elephant with a 183 lb longbow - it took him 4 arrows to take the elephant down.)

Also many hunters use heavier arrows and thus in order to get the extra accuracy/speed/power they use a higher poundage bow to compensate. If the arrows you are using are heavier, you will want a heavier poundage.

The end answer however is that you should only be using a bow you can pull and hold steady - which means when it comes to poundage you want a bow that is above legal poundage, but you can also hold it steady.

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Originally Posted by cardiotrek

Also from one story someone told to me, a friend shot a white-tail deer with a 70 lb compound - the arrow went RIGHT THROUGH the deer and kept going another 30+ yards. 70 lbs is evidently overkill on a deer and completely unnecessary.

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That will happen at lower than 70# draws as well if you aren't hitting any bone or deflecting.

Mine is at 70# and stays there, I like the heavier arrow required for that speed in terms of K/E or "knock down power".

thanks for all the insight guys, its starting to make sense now haha thanks for the help

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cardiotrek

By Ontario law you need a minimum of...

39.7 lbs to hunt whitetail deer.

48.5 lbs to hunt elk, moose or black bear.

At a lower than legal poundage the arrow would be much more likely to just wound the animal and not actually kill it.

However from the advice I have received over the years most hunters prefer 45 lbs for deer, 55 to 60 lbs for elk or moose and 60 to 80 for black bear.

Also from one story someone told to me, a friend shot a white-tail deer with a 70 lb compound - the arrow went RIGHT THROUGH the deer and kept going another 30+ yards. 70 lbs is evidently overkill on a deer and completely unnecessary.

Same thing goes with bowfishing. A bow that is too powerful will drive the arrow right through the fish, which could complicate your ability to catch and extricate the fish from your fishing line.

The poundage translates directly into arrow speed, accuracy and distance. A 40 lb bow has basically double the speed, power, accuracy and distance of a 20 lb bow. Arrow speed will fluctuate higher and lower depending on the weight of the arrow, the weight of the arrowhead, and to some extent its FOC weight (Front of Center).

It doesn't really matter whether the bow being used is a compound, recurve, longbow, or even a shortbow. If its poundage is higher then the arrows will go faster. (However I should note that recurve bows are not available at very high poundages because they would break too easily. In contrast longbows can go up to 200 lbs+. eg. Howard Hill once killed a bull elephant with a 183 lb longbow - it took him 4 arrows to take the elephant down.)

Also many hunters use heavier arrows and thus in order to get the extra accuracy/speed/power they use a higher poundage bow to compensate. If the arrows you are using are heavier, you will want a heavier poundage.

The end answer however is that you should only be using a bow you can pull and hold steady - which means when it comes to poundage you want a bow that is above legal poundage, but you can also hold it steady.

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Wow. I don't know where to start here but man have you been misinformed. First of all when an arrow whistles cleanly through there is no waste of power or "overkill". Dead is dead and a deer doesnt die quicker or slower no matter how fast the arrow went through. The arrow has done exactly what you want it to. You want clean pass throughs to get an entrance and an exit hole. Archery gear kills by blood loss, not energy and shock like a firearm. 2 holes mean double the blood loss and blood trail. You can't compare bowfishing with big game, apples & oranges.
Next whoever told you that people hunt deer with 45 lb bows knows nothing about current technology. You would be lucky to find 25% of hunters who use a bow lighter than 50 lbs. And 80 lbs for black bear again is laughable. Very few bowhunters could shoot an 80lb bow and the average bear weighs less than a whitetail buck. I have never had a problem getting pass throughs at 60lbs on black bears.
And lastly cam design has more to do with arrow speed than limb weight. I have a 60 lb bow that smokes my old 70lb one with equal arrow weight.

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Originally Posted by cardiotrek

(However I should note that recurve bows are not available at very high poundages because they would break too easily. In contrast longbows can go up to 200 lbs+. eg. Howard Hill once killed a bull elephant with a 183 lb longbow - it took him 4 arrows to take the elephant down.)

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Recurves may not be available in high draw weights (vertical style anyways) but it has nothing to do with the strength of the bow - more to do with the strength of today's shooters. In fact the recurve design is inherently stronger. A 1000 years ago Mongolian heavy war bows were recurves that had an average draw weight of over 160 lbs. Today there are recurve crossbows on the market with draw weights of 290 lbs.