Printable View
I'm in the market for a back up gun for moose hunting and stopped in at a shop today to look at the savage Axis in a 270win. There were none in stock and I was told a 25-06 would also do, would this not be a little light for moose? Opinions appreciated. I already have a 308, so with a 270 I could also use it for coyote.
No problem with the 2506 for moose .shoot them in the ribs and down thy go. Dutch
With a quality 120 grain bullet it can do the job. Is it the best choice? The .270 is better. I think the shop is just trying to sell you what he has which I find a bit distasteful. The 2506 is a great round but wouldn't be what I chose to hunt moose.
With a 120 gr Nosler Partition or similar bullet no problem. Just shoot for the heart/lungs. No rear-end shots!
Wouldnt be my first choice, but it can be done. My concern would be ammo availability, and price.
Absolutely. I have a couple of .257 Roberts rifles, so a couple hundred fps slower than the .25-06. If I go moose hunting, I will reach for my .280 Remington....but if the .257 was all I had, I would confidently expect it to kill moose. I would prefer that it be loaded with a 120 Partition or a Barnes bullet or a 120-grain Swift A-Frame. The .270 Winchester is really quite similar to the .25-06; its standard load is just a 10-grains heavier bullet at close to the same velocity. The BIG advantage is the availability of 140-grain and 150-grain loads.Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
I've posted the story before about my great-grandfather having twice killed moose with one shot, at 200+ yards, with a .38-55 Winchester, not a very powerful rifle at that range. But....he was familiar with the gun, and shot at undisturbed, broadside moose from a good rest. Really, that does more to boost clean, quick kills than cartridge power. But heck, you know that already.
The .270 is a bigger seller than the .25-06.....I'm sure the next gun shop you go to will have one.
Anyone making a 'rear end shot' , shouldn't be shooting even a .300 win.mag. IMHO
It will do the job but would not be my first second or third choice.
Not something I would hunt Moose with.
Possible yes...ethical no...you have a great moose gun already...buy yourself a nice varmint gun and be done with it...take a shotty with slugs as a moose backup
I think your 308 would do nicely for moose, pick up yourself a nice 243 or maybe even a 22-250 for yotes.
That being said...you couldn't go wrong adding a good 270 to your collection. A dandy caliber that will reach way out and will have no problem dropping a coyote.
Not at the top of my list for moose calibers. Personally I think of the 25-06 as a deer / long range coyotes in the wind / look at me I'm original caliber.
Why not use the 308 for moose and bear? Buy a 223 or 22-250 for coyotes...
See a previous thread where a poster was looking at either .243 or .270.
Can you? Yes. Should you? Personally I wouldn't.
You could probably drive a car with your feet if you had to as well, but it doesn't mean it's a good idea.
.270 is the better round, and finding one should be easy, the retailer you were speaking with just didn't want to see you go elsewhere.
sgb, you asked for opinions and I will offer that IMHO the 25-06 is a good performer but not suitable for something as large as a moose. As hunters we are obligated to dispatch an animal in a quick and humane manner. In order to do this reliably there is a need to deliver energy down range. A .25 cal bullet doesn't have enough mass.
I am an advocate of the right tool for the right job. You can build a house with a hand saw, but would you want to? In the woods you would be effectively limiting your available shots due to the limits of the tool you have in hand. I am not saying you need to shoot a moose from behind because I don't believe that this shot should be taken regardless of what you have in your hand.
I would shop for the 270. Lots of flexibility and as others have stated you can get ammo anywhere. With a 308 you are good to go.
I have not read anywhere that a 25-06 is recommended for anything other than deer or elk as the largest game to hunt effectively. It is a necked down 30-06 case with a 6.5 mm bullet which is only slightly bigger than a 243. In my opinion not a first choice for hunting big critters.
Unethical? Please explain. Also, does that make muzzleloaders or bows unethical?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangerz521
Actually it's smaller than that. It is a .257 cal bullet in a 30-06 case. If it was actually a 6.5 I would have no issue using it on moose. The Swede was/is one of the most popular rounds in Sweden and Finnland for moose. Sure you can kill a moose with a 25-06 you could kill a moose with a .243 but why would you want to? You can kill a goose with a .410 would you choose that?Quote:
Originally Posted by DGearyFTE
Unethical........?????????????Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangerz521
Yeah seems that so many guys get caught up in the big hole theory. Even though the high end 12ga slugs are only packing 1600 foot pounds of energy at 100yds and the 25-06 still carries 2000 foot pounds they think the bigger piece of lead is the key.Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaman30
I would have no problem hunting moose with my 6.5x55mm swedish mauser, and the 25-06 has more hitting power then that. It also has more hitting power than a 303 British, which lots of people hunt moose with.
The problem is driving the bullet through heavy hide and bone, if you cannot get to the vitals then you cannot kill the animal. Put that 25cal pill with a good bullet design into the boiler maker and the moose with die, same with pretty much any other bullet. If you are going to use it though make sure you get high end bullets with good construction and put it where it needs to be. Also remember that the exit hole makes a difference for tracking, the bigger the holes the better the blood flow out, it is really hard to track an animals that is only bleeding internally.
The 6.5 has the ability to shoot heavier bullets that have fabulous sectional density so they penetrate more reliably. There is a significant jump from a 120g bullet to a 150 or 160 out of a Swede .Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
A 140gr would be fine too, even a 120gr, they will kill. A lot has to be said about bullet design, they are a lot better now then years back, the partition bullet, barnes bullets, pretty much bullets that hold together rather than blow apart like the old days. If you shoot one with a 180gr 30-06 and you only get 90gr through due to the bullet fragmenting then a 90gr bullet into the same area and staying intact is almost the same thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
I am not saying it is ideal, but with the right bullet the 25-06 is not horrible either.
With the 6.5mm I just looked up bullets and it seems as though Hornady does not make a 160gr anymore, I should track some down while they are still around, 215gr .311 bullets as well, just for future projects.
You have a .308, which is more than plenty for moose. I use a .17 HMR for coyote, My son uses a .270 for deer and Elk and my other son uses a .243 for elk and deer. Though a .243 is a bit light, under a hundred yards is ok I guess. There is more moose taken with a .303 than any other (maybe changed now) My daughter shot her first deer with a .303 at 268 yards. The deer dropped. If you really want a kill, then maybe a 444 marlin or a 45-70 gov would drop one. I carry one for Grizzly, lever action of course.
As far as tracking deer or any other I've only tracked a shot animal twice. I'm too lazy for that. All mine usually drop or only go about 10 yards. I also like to use a .3030 for deer. One shot one kill.
lots of time til opener wait and get what you want
Thanks for all the replies guys! My Browning 308 X-Bolt is my go to gun for Moose for sure. I think I''ll be sticking to a 270 or a 6.5 x 55 as my back up. When told by the shop owner that a 25-06 is a moose gun I thought that was a little light. With a 270 or a 6.5 I can use as a back up and also hunt coyote too.
260 Remington is almost a 6.5x55mm but the bullet length on this has to be shorter, although a gun in this caliber is more available.Quote:
Originally Posted by sgb
I meant it as a respect thing to the moose ....I feel it's our job to do what's best not what's possible...you could use a 22 as well but why would you ? As for archery, I hunt deer with a xbox...As a personal decision I choose not to Hunt moose with a bow as there are too many cripples....I know a gang that bow hunts in NFLD every year they are excellent shots but lose at least one moose per year outta 4 guys...so...I guess everybody is entitled to their own set of ethics...and I am not sitting in judgement just my opinion
I don't know about bow hunting moose, but around here there are a lot of deer shot at with bows that don't get retrieved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangerz521
If the guys wound one moose out of every four they are not good shots. Or if they are good shots they are poor hunters that can't get within a reasonable distance from their quarry. A moose double lunged with an arrow will usually double up faster than a whitetail hit in the same spot.
I agree. If a group is wounding and not recovering 25% of the animals they shoot at then they are either taking unethical shots or not skilled enough to hunt yet. They should stick to foam targets.Quote:
Originally Posted by oaknut
No. If you have a perfect shot, maybe. Only about a 0.05% chance of that. Stick with the .270 or .308 you already have. Bigger is better if you don't get a perfect broadside rib shot and have to angle through a shoulder, etc.
The bush is super thick in NFLD the problem is a moose that even goes a couple hundred yards is super tough to find.
As always, it's about shot placement. I use a 25-06 for long range coyotes, and deer. Based on the damage it does to a deer, it'll be fine on a moose. Just make a good shot.
They use a guide so I'm not sure bout the tracking part
Have you seen a moose? Been up close to one? Have any idea of the dimensions of the shoulder bones vs. a deer? How about body weight?Quote:
Originally Posted by PalmSauce
your analogy based on dimensions is basically the same as saying the round was good for a rabbit, it should be ok for deer.
Moose ribs are not made of steel, their lungs are not quarter-bore bullit proof. 243's kill elk and moose every year with great success. If you don't think a 25-06 is enough than how in hell do 30-30's kill moose, they are a pathetic performance round yet they kill moose dead as well. A 25-06 is a great round that is easier to shoot accuratly than super-uber magnums. Some hunters don't need to be super-kool and carry a mega canon to get the job done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
Hmmm. Who said anything about magnums, or mega cannons?
Not arguing that the 25-06 could do the job. There aren't a whole lit of moose hunters out there who take to the field with 25-06s. Care to disagree? There's another thread where the same argument is made for the .243. In the hands of a good shooter, sure they'll do the job. But not every shot presented is a perfect broadside, like on TV.
Why does the 30-30 take a lot of moose? Gee, you can shoot 170grain bullet with a 30-30, over a 120 with a 25-06. Everyone who likes to look at ballistics tables typically only look at ftlbs delivered, the big picture involves ballistic coefficient, and sectional density as well.
If you had a couple of guns in the safe, and were going for moose, are you going to grab the .243, the 25-06, or something a little stouter like a .270, .308, or a 30-06?
lets take it one further, walk into a mom and pop hardware store up North to buy the box of cartridges you left at home by mistake, you actually think you're going to see any 25-06 on the shelf?
Another poster postulated that if a round does well on coyotes, or deer, it should be fine for moose. Yes, friend. I've seen my share, even carved a couple, and while I know their ribs aren't steel, I also know their physiology enough to know what round I'd want in the field to put one down, even if it did glance off a shoulder.
The one thing that I do not like about 25-06 is the ridiculously LOUD bang that it makes every time you pull the trigger. I don't mind shooting a .308 or a 30-06 all day, but the 25-06 just plain bothers me!
Now, poachers kill deer with .22 and they don't really care about how many they wound and lose.
Imagine yourself being lucky enough to have a bull tag and even luckier to get a magnificent bull at 80 yards. Would you want to blow that golden opportunity by having a "not enough gun" in your hands?!
Someone mentioned earlier to take a shotgun & slug for your back up. I second that advice.
For varmint hunting in your area a .223 would be the best choice if you ask me. :)
The 130g 270win, 100g 243win have sectional density equal to a 165g 30 calibre, were do you think that puts a 25-06. A heavy bullit is not thee all, end all of killing. It needs speed as well. I would put a 170g 30-30 on the very bottom of my list because IMO it would limit me the most because of poor performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
Who ever told you a 170gr 30-30 was a poor performer? There are likely thousands and thousands of very dead moose who would choose to differ. My first question to you is have you ever killed a moose with a 25-06? And secondly how many moose have you actually killed?Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaman30
...............
Fox,
I know BW has made some statements in the past that some have a hard time believing but commenting on a shot made by BW's daughter serves no purpose other than to stir up chit. 268 yards may be long for some people, but there are plenty of people capable of making an ethical shot at that distance - why not extend the benefit of the doubt and take him at his word.
There was 5 of us that saw it, it took her almost 10 minutes to shoot her first buck. Nice 12 pointer. She shot it in the heart, field dressed it on the spot. She has since shot about a dozen deer, all one shot one kill. She did upgrade to a 3030
Answer the question.Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaman30
You know you are going into the woods for moose. You have a few guns in the safe. Are you going to take the 25-06? Or are you going to take the 270, 308, or maybe the 30-06?
Participating in an academic exercise over whether or not a 25-06 will do the job is one thing. Same as the thread where you said much the same of the .243
You however are not helping a new shooter out there by indicating that the round is fine. In perfect circumstance, with an experienced shooter, yes, the smaller bullets will do the job. You assume much on the part of a shooters ability though.
Personally, I would rather advocate that a new shooter, looking for their first big game rifle, go with a caliber that has more power, and weight to its bullets, ensuring that the new shooter has enough gun to do the job regardless of what game he has in front of him. If he gets a bit of experience and range time, and feels confident enough in his abilities, then sure, search out that sweetheart little rifle in 25-06. But as a beginners, do all caliber? Poor advice friend.
.260 rem. is superior to the 6.5 x 55 by at least 100 fps in every bullet weight according to all my reloading manuals, I have not had a problem with bullet length in any bullet weight, as with any reload the bullet is set to the manuals recommended COL and then chambered in the rifle it will be used in, I usually set a bullet to recommended COL in a primerless, powderless cartridge and make adjustments if required to bullet seating depth. I wouldn't recommend a 25-06 as a moose gun but if that was all I had available I wouldn't hesitate to take it, I have a .257 Rob. that I would also use if that was all that was available to me, I also would not hesitate to take my .260 rem. just for the record my go to moose gun is .280 rem. loaded with 150 gr. swift scirocco bulletsQuote:
Originally Posted by Fox
“To me, the .260 Remington has no advantage over the 6.5×55 if one is going to use a long action. Likewise, the only advantage the .260 has in a modern rifle is it can be used in a short-action. There is more powder capacity in the 6.5×55 so you have the potential to get more velocity plus there is a lot of reloading data available to you for loading at lower velocity/pressure if you choose. The Lapua brass is great and Winchester brass is pretty good at low pressures. Having loaded a good bit for both, the 6.5×55 would always get the nod from me. To me, if someone wants to use a short-action, the 6.5×47 Lapua is even a better option than the .260 for a target rifle.” — Olympian
Either way, shoot what you want. I will take my 6.5x55mm mauser to hunt moose, I would take a 25-06 if I knew the gun and could hit the mark. I would also use a shotgun with slugs or the 303 Brit, not eithe of these at 500 yards, but most calibers discussed here in the boiler room would kill a moose no problem within the effective range of the user (for most of us that is 300 yards or less with a good scope, 100 yards with irons). If you feel that you can kill a moose at 700 yards with your setup then great, have at it.
This may indeed be your opinion, but not mine. Telling a "new" shooter to buy a 30-06 and go to it, IMO is not the best advice. A new shooter should get a smaller bore rifle..243, 25-06 so he or she can go out to the range and practice with pleasure and not adopt a flinch from what a bolt gun 30-06 can well do to a new shooter. Shooting a smaller bore rifle will build confidence and the ability to become a great shooter. Getting a new shooter a rifle they enjoy to use makes a world of difference. You give your average new shooter a bolt 30-06 and a 25-06 and you see which rifle he can make better use of after a few range visits. Talking about experienced shooters, getting a new shooter behind an enjoyable rifle to use is how they become expierenced. If they feel confident with their gun then they should consider bullit construction when hunting certain game and not just looking at calibres. When you can shoot with confidence, then is the time to take the jump to a bigger gun IMO. And yes I use bigger calibres, and have been shooting a long time, but I have alot of respect for the smaller bores capabilitiesQuote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
Check the posts again chum. Once again you are putting words in my mouth that I did not say.
At at no point did I recommend the 30-06. Not a big fan, even if it does have a huge bullet selection. But advocate for a .270, or .308 as a first gun, yes, I will. Particularly since the felt recoil on either is within 1-2 lbs of the 25-06 anyhow. Hardly a flinch factor worth noting. The .243? Sure real light recoil, a lot like the 5.56 NATO that I've shot tons of. Still wouldn't recommend it as a first gun. Maybe for a junior shooter, sure.
Your post from last year:
Originally Posted by Muskokaguy20
What do u like Canadaman?
Browning BLR
Marlin 336
Rem750 Carbine
My preference is a semi-auto carbine, 308 or 30-06. 18.5" barrel makes for a fast handling gun in thick stuff.
So why didn't you advocate for the BLR or Rem 750 in .243? ...and for what it's worth, you still didn't answer the question. If you knew you were going for moose, and had a 25-06, .243, .270, .308, and a 30-06 in the safe. Which gun is the one you'd take?
I've become a big fan of the 7mm mag. It's great for moose. The Hornady Superformance. Fantastic. 162 gr.
It is too big for deer (7mm mag), but it can be done. Just like all caliber discussions. I'm a GM truck guy.
All my friends have Fords. Not smart guys but they are my friends and I RESPECT the choices they make.
They happen to be Leaf's fans... not smart guys again. lol For the OP, I would prefer something bigger.
270 and 308 are great calibers. I predict you will buy a 270. 3 of them in our hunt camp and great success.
cheers
A new shooter should start with a 22 rim fire. They will learn better with this than any. Now in ideal conditions any centre fire will do the job. Do moose always show up and give beginners or experienced hunters that perfect broadside shot? When you drive up north put in the time and money and have your adult moose tag in hand wich gun will you bring up to camp? 25-06 or 270? This is original question?Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaman30
For moose I'd definitely pick the .308. As for recoil? I really don't find a lot of difference between a .243, 12 gauge and my 444 marlin. Hold the butt tight to your shoulder and position yourself right and its all the same. Its really all a matter of how you hold your tongue.
I haven't had my question answered yet. Has the guy claiming the 25-06 is a good moose round a) ever shot a moose? b) ever shot a moose with a 25-06 ?
I have hunted moose for many years and personally killed a bunch. I have also seen many more killed by my hunting partners. In all the years we have had very few easy broadside standing shots that would be necessary for a marginal caliber to be ethically used. Comparing performance on a 150lb deer to a 900lb bull moose to me seems odd. Also what would you do if after trying to draw a bull tag for years finally get one. Then the only moose you see is one 350yds away? I know a guy who has killed 3 moose with a .243 but that guy has probably killed 40 moose himself and hunts them every year for 2 weeks solid in Red Lake. His group gets a bull tag every year. He doesn't get too excited anymore when he lines up on a moose, not too many fit that profile.
I would take my bolt 270 and 30-06 carbine or maybe my 450. 25-06 factory ammo is limited and expensive. For the reloader the 25-06 is a capable cartridge and not to be under estimated.Quote:
Originally Posted by robster
There's always threads about 270 vs 30-06, why many who own them (me included) claim there is little to no difference in performance, a 25-06 is hot on the heels of a 270, but for some reason most just don't want to admit or believe it. TSX or Partition bullits in 25-06 just quash and concerns for penetration. With 2000ft/lbs 100yds I laugh at.........unethical...............
Thanks for all the responses, But all I asked was if a 25-06 was suitable for moose? The shop owner said it was, I know little about this round. But after reading all the answers I believe I'll be going with a 6.5 x 55 or a 270. This gun will strictly be a back up for moose and something I can hunt coyote with. My go to gun at the moment will be my Browning X-Bolt Medallion in a 308. I'm not all that familiar with with the 20 cal rifles. In the past I've shot and owned a 308, 30-06, 338wm, 308 norma, and 7mm. Once again thanks for the responses.
Best of luck with your new rifle; I hope you never need a backup gun.
Not unethical but you brought up a point about TSX or Partition bullets. Now between the two cartridges 25-06 and 270. Which has more of a variety of factory ammo available off the shelf. I'll go out on a limb but how many hunters out there reload? My case is that a better backup would be a 270 since you can go just about anywhere and find a greater selection in this load. There was a topic of what the popular (most used) cartridges we're found at the moose hunt camps. I don't remember 25-06 being one of them. I don't think the guys here are nocking it but the 270 is just something tried tested and true. I can pull a trailer with a mid size v6 pickup, but I think most would opt for a halfton with a v8.Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaman30
We always need back up guns. 1, 2, 3 or more. Tell a women why she doesn't need a back up shoe or purse..lol. :goodstuff:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilo Charlie
I agree with the popularity and factory offerings for sure. but there are great cartridges out there that factory ammo is scarce 25-06, 280, etc. Great cartridges but little offerings in the way of ammo.Quote:
Originally Posted by robster
http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_killing_power_list.htm
Interesting table at the bottom of this read. Not sure I put much faith in it though.
This explains why I require three rifles in .257 Roberts and three .22 rimfires....backups!Quote:
Originally Posted by robster