First shotgun - alternatives to Mossberg/Remingteon combos...

Hi guys,

I've used last couple months researching, reading, watching you tubes etc. trying to decide on my first shotgun...most likely pump...may be semi but haven't researched those too well...
Will be hunting pretty much everything I can find the time for....from ducks/geese to deer and upland birds, rabbits, etc. Locations in Southern Ontario going with well connected friends of mine.:rolleyes:
Read all the previous posts on the subject and the forum's prevailing wisdom on Remington 870 vs. Mossberg 520/535 combos. All well appreciated and under serious consideration.

But...would like to ask different angle questions.

What alternatives to the two options above are available?

The 535 triple combo will cost well over $600 by the time all is in...the 870 and 530 slightly less but within that range... so here are few specific questions that bother me:

- Are there any other combo barrels shotguns worth consideration?
- Are there any other (non combo barrel) shotguns worth consideration? I realize going this way will require buying more than one gun to be able to do what the triple combos above will do.
- Will it be better strategy to go with 2 more expensive/higher quality single barrel guns vs. the triple combos? Spending more in the beginning but saving on the long run from having to upgrade in a year or couple?

Just trying not to make the wrong decision and buy a gun I need to upgrade/replace shortly. For purchases like that (to be used for years to come) I prefer buying right the first time even if it cost a bit more to start.

Would appreciate all your comments and suggestions.
Thanks,

Cheers,
Ice Fisherman

Browning BPS. I had the intention of buying one of the two mentioned above but then picked up the browning and the difference in quality is almost unbelievable. Well worth the extra bucks.

Winchester exp.. Smooth as butter...

Have you looked at a s/s or o/u. Many will call them grandpas gun. but grandpas know a thing or two and shot a lot of game with them. Two different chokes, two of the same chokes, different shell combos...find guys are selling or trading them in at some shop for semis, pumps. Too bad. These are good guns but the shooter has to make an effort to pattern both barrels.

I got the 3" version ... Sxp (field) got it Saturday.. Put 4 boxes of target load through it on the weekend.. Operated flawlessly. And its very quick.. I have used 870's and Mossberg 500's.. (Old ones not the new garbage guns) and the Winchester just was smooth....

Should budget permit, it would be best to go for two separate firearms.....

1. Smoothbore shotgun 12ga for Small Game - in this case, due to potential of Wingshooting opportunities, gun fit must be the top criteria for product selection. If buying used, need to ensure that the shotgun is equipped with 3in chamber, screw-in chokes and compatible with steel shot.
- Pump: Browning, Benelli, Ithaca, Rem 870 Wingmaster (build quality of older Remingtons i.e. 80s/90s production will be superior compared to recent manufactures)
- Semi: Beretta, Benelli, Browning, Winchester, Weatherby

2. Rifled Barrel Slug Gun (assuming that your deer hunting will be limited to WMUs of Southern ON permitted for SG and/or ML only).
- Single shot: H&R Ultra Slug Hunter 20ga
- Bolt Action: Savage 20ga

So I take it, there are no other shotgun combos aside from the Mossberg and Ramington...
Like what I read about the Browning BPS...if the BPS is to be used for ducks/geese upland and turkey...can a second rifled barrel be purchased for it or do I need to buy separate shotgun?
If it a second shotgun what model and at what price point?
Trying to figure out total cost of two separate good quality shotguns vs. the Mossberg or Remington combos....

Cheers,
Ice Fisherman

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by icefisherman

So I take it, there are no other shotgun combos aside from the Mossberg and Ramington...
Like what I read about the Browning BPS...if the BPS is to be used for ducks/geese upland and turkey...can a second rifled barrel be purchased for it or do I need to buy separate shotgun?
If it a second shotgun what model and at what price point?
Trying to figure out total cost of two separate good quality shotguns vs. the Mossberg or Remington combos....

Cheers,
Ice Fisherman

---

One could purchase a Cantilever barrel (rifled) for the BPS. However, that extra barrel will be expensive unless you come across a good deal on a used specimen.

A new single shot 20ga H&R Ultra Slug Hunter or its Deluxe version will cost $264+tax and $328+tax respectively (price quoted from Ellwood Epps' current inventory). Those heavy barreled slug guns are inherently accurate when a particular gun is matched with appropriate brand of sabot slug. The H&R USH will be heavy though.

A new barrel (BPS) will cost about the same.

Mossberg also has another combo package other than the 500/535. They offer a combo in their 930 semi. 28 or 26" bird barrel and a 24"rifled barrel with iron sights. 3" chamber.

As sharps suggested, you could probably get a dedicated slug gun for about the same price as a second BPS barrel.

Emil, get an 870. I find the 3" guns have no issues. Some of the supermags seem to have problems. Ive seen every shotgun fail at some point, but my 870 has been flawless since day 1. You really cant go wrong.

Even if there was an issue, getting parts and service is easy.

Mine has been thru hell and back, and I dont take very good care of it, and its never let me down. Ever.

Ive hunted with lots of guys, with all the fancy shotguns you could think of, and seen them all turn into a single shot in bad conditions, but my 870 goes bang, bang, bang every time.

If I was you, id be looking for an older, used, 870 wingmaster. No need for 3.5", you will kill just as much game with a 3" gun, trust me.

S.

The old 870's and old 500's are much better than the ones they have today. I've dropped an old Mossberg in the water.. And still worked fine.. Would be Leary to try it on a new one...

I have a mossberg 930 combo with a rifled barrel and bird barrel and it would be a good combo for the a shooter. Only problem is lower priced combo guns are lower priced for a reason. If you looking to do some waterfolw hunting I would buy a high end semi and look for a cheap pump or single shot. Save money because in the long run you will be upgrading anyway. Epps have a few slug hunters in stock and l would grab a 20 ga for 270 plus tax. These guns are hard to find and grab a nice semi like a sx3.

25 years ago I started with the Rem 870 express, 28" barrel with various removable chokes for waterfowl and upland game. Years later I needed a deer barrel for southern Ontario. Got a short smoothbore with rifle sights. Later I scoped this setup to allow better vision in low light, early morning and late afternoon. To extend the range and accuracy I then got a cantilever rifled barrel. Not altogether happy with the accuracy, I sold the rifled barrel and bought a Savage 220. I am happy now,.......for a while. Good luck with your decision.

25 years ago I started with the Rem 870 express, 28" barrel with various removable chokes for waterfowl and upland game. Years later I needed a deer barrel for southern Ontario. Got a short smoothbore with rifle sights. Later I scoped this setup to allow better vision in low light, early morning and late afternoon. To extend the range and accuracy I then got a cantilever rifled barrel. Not altogether happy with the accuracy, I sold the rifled barrel and bought a Savage 220. I am happy now,.......for a while. Good luck with your decision.

I follow what you're saying, OP. I love labs, but everyone's got a chocolate or a black, so I got a yellow. Everyone wants to be that guy that's different from 'the pack.' I get it.


But I got no reason to lie, you want an 870. ANYTHING you need (rifled barrel, chokes, aftermarket stocks, etc) is available at any reputable gun dealer. And for the price, it's unbeatable.

You may well be right WG ;-)
But part of the reason for my post was how nearly impossible it is to find a good used 870 Wingmaster....I guess you are not the only one who likes them that much, so people keep them...And for reasons stated number of times here I don't want a new one...


Sooooo......where do I go from here ;-)

Cheers,
Ice Fisherman

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by icefisherman

You may well be right WG ;-)
But part of the reason for my post was how nearly impossible it is to find a good used 870 Wingmaster....I guess you are not the only one who likes them that much, so people keep them...And for reasons stated number of times here I don't want a new one...


Sooooo......where do I go from here ;-)

Cheers,
Ice Fisherman

---

You can't find a "good used wing master",cause they are good....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by topher

You can't find a "good used wing master",cause they are good....

---

Sure seems that way....

Cheers,
Ice Fisherman

You go to your local gun shop and buy an 870 express magnum with a rifled barrel.

I'll tell you something else. I got the rifled barrel with mine. It was more of a PITA than anything, just trying to get it to shoot well. Too much trouble for what its worth. I now shoot cheapie remington sluggers out of my waterfowl barrel. I can put 3 shots as fast as I can unload the gun, at 75yd, in an 8" paper plate. I'll guarantee 99% of your deer will be no further than that.

Whoever said to get a nice semi for waterfowl has been brainwashed by duck dynasty or something. I almost exclusively hunt waterfowl, and have for the last 25 years, and NEVER used a semi. Ive seen too many break down in the field.

As for putting the gun in water. Ive washed mine in the lake twice since I owned it. Not a problem. Stuff happens out there, and the last thing I want is a fancy semi to have to tear down at dark thirty in mud up to my .

S.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by topher

Winchester exp.. Smooth as butter...

---

X2 this one^^

Great gun

I will tell you why you hear bad stories about the 870, because there are so many made every year there is bound to be a problem with a few. People tend to about problems but don't really go out of the way to post when they are happy. I have an 870 and just bought an 1187 because the chokes are interchangeable and the gun as a whole shoulders and feels like the 870. I guess I own the 2 worst guns ever made;) The most important reason is because they both fit me and hit the target I'm looking at.

No doubt there are many happy Remington 870 owners out there. An 870 combo would probably give years of good service.

On the other hand, there is no getting around the fact that the 870 Express is cheap for a reason, nor that Remington's overall quality is not what it once was. I guess my take would be that if you get a combo, chances are you will eventually want to replace that gun and move up-market, by choice if not by necessity.

I feel the best option is a quality pump like the BPS as an all-round gun, and then a dedicated slug gun for deer. Other options are correspondingly more expensive, so it depends on your budget. Re semis, I will (again) raise my well-worn objection that a semi is not a great choice for a first gun, because a gun that automatically loads the next round offers an opportunity to make a life-changing mistake; better to learn good handling habits on a pump or break-action gun first.

I messed around with quite a few different setups over the years and was never quite satisfied until I had a "dedicated" slug gun for deer and another shotgun for everything else. It will be a little more expensive than a combo at first. Make your decision based on how much hunting of each particular species you might do. If you will do a lot of deer hunting, go with a slug gun and a bird gun. If you will only deer hunt a couple of days a year at most, the combo might serve you just fine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by welsh

I guess my take would be that if you get a combo, chances are you will eventually want to replace that gun and move up-market, by choice if not by necessity.

I feel the best option is a quality pump like the BPS as an all-round gun, and then a dedicated slug gun for deer. Other options are correspondingly more expensive, so it depends on your budget.

---

Welsh,

You've summarized my predicament best...I'd like to jump one level in having to replace my first gun only couple years after I buy it just because I found better though slightly more expensive options. If it cost a bit more now, but saves me more on long run I feel it is a better to get it from the beginning.

That said and based on what others have posted here...how about this option:

- Browning BPS to go after most things but the deer. Spare option here would be Remington Wingmaster (if I can find reasonably priced good used one). By the way are the new Wingmasters affected by the same decline in overall Remington quality of used vs. newer models?
- Savage 220F for dedicated slug gun - haven't even considered it up until now, but am impressed by what I've read after few people mentioned it.

Would this be best 2 guns combination to achieve the type of hunting I am after?

Cheers,
Ice Fisherman

Many varied options for what you want to do.

Discounting the Rem 870, or Mossberg 500 as entry level guns which you MAY want to upgrade from isn't necessarily true.

I own a number of shotties ( 7 actually), they range from higher priced O/U guns, SxS, nicer semi-autos, etc. Last year I bought a 20 gauge Mossy 500 combo, in camo, with the 3 barrels.

Let me safely assure you that it actually is my go-to gun when going afield more and more. I have no interest in "upgrading, as I already have them.

The slug barrel for the Mossy has open sights ( my choice) and is dead accurate out to about 150M. It's my official back up gun during deer season. Or my first choice when driving the bush.

Get out to a place like Epps, and handle a few. Get out to a club and shoot a couple is even better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by icefisherman

You may well be right WG ;-)
But part of the reason for my post was how nearly impossible it is to find a good used 870 Wingmaster....I guess you are not the only one who likes them that much, so people keep them...And for reasons stated number of times here I don't want a new one...


Sooooo......where do I go from here ;-)

Cheers,
Ice Fisherman

---

Look up Triggers & Bows/Landsborough Auctions. They're located at the corner of Bishopsgate and Colborne St West in Burford which is 10 mins west of Brantford and about 10 mins from the 403 exit at Rest Acres Rd (Hwy 24 South). Phenomenal customer service and they have gun auctions every few months. If you call and tell them what you want, they can usually get it for you or at least let you know when they're holding an auction that includes what you're looking for.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WayneGretzky99

Look up Triggers & Bows/Landsborough Auctions. They're located at the corner of Bishopsgate and Colborne St West in Burford which is 10 mins west of Brantford and about 10 mins from the 403 exit at Rest Acres Rd (Hwy 24 South). Phenomenal customer service and they have gun auctions every few months. If you call and tell them what you want, they can usually get it for you or at least let you know when they're holding an auction that includes what you're looking for.

---

I used to go to their semi annual gun auction in Paris ON frequently. Have you been recently? The last time I looked it seemed like prices had skyrocketed. Almost retail or more for a lot of the stock they had....

It may have just been the one auction, but it always was the same, the Spring auction had better prices than the Fall one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bluebulldog

I used to go to their semi annual gun auction in Paris ON frequently. Have you been recently? The last time I looked it seemed like prices had skyrocketed. Almost retail or more for a lot of the stock they had....

It may have just been the one auction, but it always was the same, the Spring auction had better prices than the Fall one.

---

Haven't been one in a few years. Last time I went my buddy got a Wingmaster from the late 80's for $300. He just bought newer barrel that accepted remchokes and then bought a slug barrel. This is the only gun he owns and he hunts religiously and to my knowledge has never had any issues whatsoever

That would be a good value buy right there.

Amazing how some guys look at the high gloss wood and metal that was used in most guns in the 80s and automatically discount them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bluebulldog

That would be a good value buy right there.

Amazing how some guys look at the high gloss wood and metal that was used in most guns in the 80s and automatically discount them.

---

I should add that he bought a Max-4 stock and the gun could pass as being only a year old to the untrained eye.

My dad gave me his duck gun, in basically new condition. ( He still had the receipt). Winchester 1500XTR 12 gauge. Nice and shiny wood and metal. Took it to a smith and had the full choke bored out for threaded chokes, presto, brand new gun. Which only had maybe 2 boxes through it.

Nice when you can find some of those gems out there.

I find older guns are better made in general, no matter what the brand is. Kind of like houses.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bluebulldog

I used to go to their semi annual gun auction in Paris ON frequently. Have you been recently? The last time I looked it seemed like prices had skyrocketed. Almost retail or more for a lot of the stock they had....

It may have just been the one auction, but it always was the same, the Spring auction had better prices than the Fall one.

---

You do not go to one of their auctions looking for a deal. I was looking for a rifle a few years back and the 222, 22-250, 243s were stupid expensive. Left the auction, drove to T&B and walked out with a Savage 111 for less than the used were going for at the auction. Guys get caught up in the auction and just keep putting their hand up. If you go the auction route, set a budget and be prepared to go home empty handed.

I would buy a good quality pump with removable chokes. Best that you can afford. Practice, practice and practice with a quality rifled slug. Don't believe all the hype that you need scopes and rifled barrels to shoot deer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by M_P

You do not go to one of their auctions looking for a deal. I was looking for a rifle a few years back and the 222, 22-250, 243s were stupid expensive. Left the auction, drove to T&B and walked out with a Savage 111 for less than the used were going for at the auction. Guys get caught up in the auction and just keep putting their hand up. If you go the auction route, set a budget and be prepared to go home empty handed.

I would buy a good quality pump with removable chokes. Best that you can afford. Practice, practice and practice with a quality rifled slug. Don't believe all the hype that you need scopes and rifled barrels to shoot deer.

---

Ok, probably dating myself here, but when I started going to the Paris gun auction, it was around 1996 or 1997.

You could find decent shotguns for under $200, and if you were sharp enough you could get .22s for under $50.

True story, 1997 Spring Auction, bought a Win model 58 12 Gauge semi. With engraved receiver, and the "Win Light" barrel for $150. Also bought a Cooey bolt action repeater with tube mag for $10.

That Fall I bought a Win 94 in 30-30 with nice tiger maple wood on it for $200.

Darn......now I wish I had most of those back....LOL.

Watch gunnutz,you'd be surprised at what comes up. I once wasted a Saturday at a Landsborough Auction, never again! I've been to Switzer's and seen some equally stupid prices paid by people who don't do their homework to find out what a gun is worth. Usually, you have to wait until later in the auction when these people have blown all of their money and then find the deals, but even that doesn't always work. It's like watching Storage Wars - sometimes people get burned, sometimes they get a deal and sometimes they walkaway with nothing.

I have a 1980's Wingmaster that I bought for $100.00 and love it. I have hunted with guys using a BPS and I really don't think they are any better than the old Wingmasters. I am also not a fan of the bottom eject system on the BPS.

Roe+

Buy a nice pump like an sxp and h&r slug hunter. Maybe 600 bucks. If a semi is too rich. I paid 580 for my 930 with two barrels. Good for deer and turkey. Still prefer a nice semi for waterfolw. Sx3 is my choice.

I'mnot sure where you found a price of 600.00 for a Mossberg Pump. Cabelas sells a combo package 535 with 3 chokes and deer barrel for 369.00. I purchased mine last winter deleivered tax cost me approx 420.00

New gun – benelli supernova or browning bps
Used – same as above but also include as others have said older 870s, wingmaster, Ithaca esp. if you can find one that shoots 3” shells and has chokes.

IMO 3.5” shells from a pump are no fun and not worth the $ or the bruises - practice shooting, buy a HQ 3” duck/goose/turkey loads = same results as 3.5” shells

Stoeger 3000

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Goosesniper

Stoeger 3000

---

Or the Stoeger 3500. same action as the Benelli.

Bd. agreed

Stoeger would be ideal if only they made a fully rifled slug barrel for it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RTRonthefly

Stoeger would be ideal if only they made a fully rifled slug barrel for it.

---

So would the Weatherby SA-08. Sadly it's Turkish manufacturer hasn't tooled for one yet.

Does it have a rifled choke tube. Not sure scout that.

The stoeger (m3500 for sure) uses the benelli mobile choke system so yes you could get a rifled choke.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by greatwhite

I'mnot sure where you found a price of 600.00 for a Mossberg Pump. Cabelas sells a combo package 535 with 3 chokes and deer barrel for 369.00. I purchased mine last winter deleivered tax cost me approx 420.00

---

You are probably talking about the double barrel combo.
I was talking about the triple barrel combo which you can't find for much less than $600 + tax...found one place for $549 + tax and that is it.

Cheers,
Ice Fisherman

Sail has it for around $500
Not the 535.. The 500

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by topher

Sail has it for around $500
Not the 535.. The 500

---

Right, that is about the going rate...around $500 for the 500 triple combo and about $600 for the 535 triple combo.
And I am thinking I may as well pay $100-$200 more and get the BPS.

Cheers,
Ice Fisherman

Honestly check out the sxp.. I put 200 rounds through mine this week.. Not one jam.. Fires smooth.. Fast.. And well.. It hits where j point.. Price is good at 375 at sail.. For the 28" field..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by icefisherman

Right, that is about the going rate...around $500 for the 500 triple combo and about $600 for the 535 triple combo.
And I am thinking I may as well pay $100-$200 more and get the BPS.

Cheers,
Ice Fisherman

---

I got my 500 3 bbl combo in 20gauge from Epps for $469 plus tax. Made it $530 taxes in. Just sayin'

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by topher

Honestly check out the sxp.. I put 200 rounds through mine this week.. Not one jam.. Fires smooth.. Fast.. And well.. It hits where j point.. Price is good at 375 at sail.. For the 28" field..

---

If I had 600 bucks I would buy the sxp and h&r slug hunter. Trust me those slug hunters are accurate and those sxps are worth the money and alot better than a 870 or mossy 500. Sxp is 335 at sail and h&r slug hunter is 265 plus tax at ellwood epps.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bluebulldog

I got my 500 3 bbl combo in 20gauge from Epps for $469 plus tax. Made it $530 taxes in. Just sayin'

---

I was looking at the 12 gauge 535 triple combo and the prices I posted (around $600 +tax) with one exception (more than 2 hrs away from me) are the prices out there....must have checked every gun dealer out there...

Cheers,
Ice Fisherman