Woodcock Info

Below is a link to the 2013 Woodcock population status.....quite a bit of good info....especially the Graphs that show the bag limits in the US starting from the early 1900's right up to present day...also, the Graphs that show the amount of hunters per given state and harvest/singing surveys....Woodcock should be back here in Ontario in a Month or so......not looking good for them down South....my fear is most got caught in these Ice storms and terrible weather that has plaqued most of the N American Continent....I hope Im wrong....the good news is that WC in parts of Ontario are on the increase and Ontario has the highest number in the singing Survey which indicates (scientifically) Ontario has the highest population of WC....enjoy the read. I have updated the post to reflect the 2013 pop status.....I didn't think it was available yet but some friends down south pointed me in the right direction.

http://woodcocklimited.org/wp-conten...Status2013.pdf

PR, I have a question. I hear of people working their dogs on WC in the spring and also heard mention of a license. What is the license, why do you need it, and where do you get it?

Most bird dog owners train on Spring flight woodcock. Not sure what license you are talking about though?

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Originally Posted by terrym

Most bird dog owners train on Spring flight woodcock. Not sure what license you are talking about though?

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Cass is talking about a "Dog Training Permit"....its actually used more for the MNR to know what and where you will be releasing Birds......take the info I give as my own opinion and observations.....our MNR makes things a royal P.I.A. so if you are not going to release birds for training and you are just going to run your dogs on returning flights of woodcock.......don't bother getting one ( I gave up years ago)...reason being? they wanted to know all the addresses I was going to train on...what day...time etc etc......I have many places I can decide to go......so, just be cautious when training(if you see nests...back out ASAP) and definitely DO NOT run your dogs during the nesting and rearing periods.......MId to end April right up until August. The training Permit has been streamlined now from what I hear so someone here may have more info on that....Sharon usually has all these Links.....hopefully she will chime in and give you better info.......of all the years I have been running dogs in the spring....I have never had a CO come and check me and when I did apply for permit...the Aurora Office also said same to me....that if I was not going to release any birds.....don't bother with one...so that's what I did.

Scroll down to page 8
http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/stdprodcons...ent/239841.pdf

If you are not releasing birds then there is no need for a training permit.

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Originally Posted by terrym

If you are not releasing birds then there is no need for a training permit.

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Technically...you do....click the link I posted above...scroll to page 8.

So (keep in mind I have no idea about woodcock or dog bird training) when do you guys train your dogs on these birds if you shouldn't bother them when they are breeding or caring (mid April-Aug.) for their young? Didn't think training dogs on wild game during a closed season was even allowed. Like I said I have no idea about this and just trying to understand it a bit better. Hope this snow goes away soon so we all can enjoy the spring (warmer weather) sooner than later.

You Train very early Spring.....last year we saw the first arrivals early March......WC will go to nest in April....by Mid April Im usually done......Grouse go to nest a little later.....so, its about a month long(depending if its an early or late spring)....all other training is done in fields with planted birds while the wild birds are nesting/rearing......that doesn't mean you shouldn't proceed with caution...there are other birds that do nest in fields........once Turkey season opens...the Dogs are not run and during the Hot days of summer...we run either early mornings or late evening in areas I know hold no Birds. By August (Mid) is when I start to condition the dogs and we start running again in open fields and bushlots......all birds are flying well by then. A WC will abandon a nest of eggs if bumped off more than once so keep that in mind......if |I start seeing nests...even early....training is done for me.....common sense goes a long way.

To hunt migratory game birds in Ontario you must have a federal Migratory Game Bird Hunting Permit and Wildlife Habitat Conservation Stamp AS WELL AS an Ontario licence to hunt small game. (This includes hunting with falconry birds and non-indigenous falconry birds.)

Ontario residents may buy a Migratory Game Bird Hunting Permit and Wildlife Habitat Conservation Stamp at most post offices. Ontario residents may buy an Ontario licence to hunt small game over the Internet or from a participating licence issuer or ServiceOntario counter.

Migratory game birds are the responsibility of the federal government. Please refer to the federal Migratory Bird Hunting Regulations for open season dates, hunting districts, bag and possession limits, non-toxic shot requirements and the reporting of banded birds on Environment Canada's migratory birds website.

Additional useful information is available on Environment Canada's Enforcement website.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y10tiPXmI6s

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Originally Posted by Pointersrule

Technically...you do....click the link I posted above...scroll to page 8.

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I said it before - game laws are so complex, I don't know a single person who fully understands them all.
I fully agree with PR - most people don't bother getting a permit for spring wc training.
But since we're splitting hairs here... and if anyone really wants to sound smart while talking to a CO :)
wc are federally regulated (same as ducks), so MNR cannot issue a permit to train on them, duh! They can on phez or grouse or rabbits.
AS for disturbing nesting process, there's no law in ON or Canada AFAIK regulating this (there's in some of the US), so it's left to each person's own ethics.

So I guess the biggest question is, do any of these spring migratory wc go through the Quinte area or do they settle mostly in southwestern Ontario?

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Originally Posted by Cass

So I guess the biggest question is, do any of these spring migratory wc go through the Quinte area or do they settle mostly in southwestern Ontario?

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Of course they do....did you even open the PDF link I posted?......it has a few maps showing their Migration ranges and Breeding Range. WC Range from Manitoba all the way to the Atlantic Provinces....so I think your covered Cass. :thumbup:

Looks like I just have to keep an eye on your posts then to figure out when to get out there! I hope its soon, my boy needs to run. He's going stir crazy (and driving me crazy as well) in the house this winter.

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Originally Posted by Cass

Looks like I just have to keep an eye on your posts then to figure out when to get out there! I hope its soon, my boy needs to run. He's going stir crazy (and driving me crazy as well) in the house this winter.

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Don't count on me....here is a very useful tool....its a live Migration Map......Tip, when you start seeing them arrive in Penn/New York State on the Map....get ready!!
https://www.ruffedgrousesociety.org/...on-Map-History

Just an FYI for those who want to know....I was on the phone with some folks from the US yesterday and OUR WC are still en Masse in Louisianna , Florida and the Carolinas......a little movement started a week or two ago but with the recent storms that has stopped....so looks like they are safe as of yesterday....they did get some ice down in Louisiana last week but nothing that would be harmful to WC.....I just hope they stay put for a while longer and that the weather pattern changes within the next week or 2 or they may run into a wall of trouble.....keep an eye on that Migration Map.

Would also like to add be mindful of the pressure you put on the birds. In the woodlots around me migrants stop however its small patchy areas. Its typical to flush them and see them drop 30-40 yards away. Personally I avoid the temptation to go reflush that bird.

Thanks PR for the links.

Glad to read that the short-term (10 year) trend is stable, but the long-term slow decline remains troubling. When you see a trend like this in managed jurisdictions, this issue is almost always habitat loss.

I remember last year the Woodcock should up real early in the London area, there was still patches of snow on the ground. The Woodcock do seem tired in the spring and only fly a short distance after flushed as mentioned, so i wouldn't recommend working the same bird twice. These guys have made quite the trip. Hopefully spring gets here soon, my dog bored and really needs a good workout.

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Originally Posted by fishhawk

The Woodcock do seem tired in the spring and only fly a short distance after flushed as mentioned, so i wouldn't recommend working the same bird twice.

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I leave the woodcock in the spring for just this reason. It's one thing with a pointing dog but with a flusher I worry about the dog trapping tired birds, which benefits no one. I may be worrying about nothing but I err on the side of caution here.

The birds you find that don't fly far or seem tired....those are birds that literally just arrived that \Night/Morning.....a day rest and they fly fine......no different than when you are chasing them in the Fall but yes, you never go after the same bird and again...common sense goes a long way.

I'm wondering if there is still snow on the ground the birds will stay on the forest floor?

They are ground birds cold feet don't bother them.

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Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers

They are ground birds cold feet don't bother them.

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LOL, they leave with their flip flops but come back wearin' Sorels.......seriously Jynri....WC and Partridge are the ones that come to mind that are strictly Ground Birds....Grouse, Pheasant will hit the Trees. WC will search out bare patches of ground.....underneath Cedar Trees, South facing slopes are usually clear of snow....as delicate as they look, they are actually a very hardy/tough bird.

Got a report of WC in Kentucky and Sand hill cranes in Southern Michigan.

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Originally Posted by Pointersrule

LOL, they leave with their flip flops but come back wearin' Sorels.......seriously Jynri....WC and Partridge are the ones that come to mind that are strictly Ground Birds....Grouse, Pheasant will hit the Trees. WC will search out bare patches of ground.....underneath Cedar Trees, South facing slopes are usually clear of snow....as delicate as they look, they are actually a very hardy/tough bird.

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Thanks for the great info.

Those woodcock might want to slow down, take in a show or a movie or something ... it's gonna be a while before we get the heat turned on here, I think.

Well, this pic was taken a few years ago during one of our early spring Woodcock adventures.....yup, we got stuck on the way in to the Covert...so we (and the Dogs) hiked the rest of the way on foot.....just to show you, the snow really is not their enemy....we found WC that day.....my biggest fear this year is that we have a deeper than normal frost line because of the extensive very cold weather we have had this winter....this could be lethal for the early arrivers.

Getting stuck on the way in...look at how much snow there was
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n...ar42010009.jpg

Yup, they were there!!
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n...ar42010011.jpg

With the winter the way it has been all along the East coast and in Ontario, how do you think this affect the Spring flyway through Niagara?

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Originally Posted by Sharon

With the winter the way it has been all along the East coast and in Ontario, how do you think this affect the Spring flyway through Niagara?

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Who knows....this Bird has always been a mystery......what do you mean by your question? Are you asking in terms of timing or if they will change their flight patterns....they usually take the same Flight paths but do veer off course some years because of storms, strong winds, weather etc etc......we saw the best WC numbers here about 5 yrs ago, and I firmly believe we got birds tyhjat were supposed to nest in NY and Penn but pushed further North because that spring when they arrived in those states there was a huge snow storm and high amounts of snow.......all I know is that in my whole life of chasing these guys....that was one of the best years in terms of numbers both in spring and Fall and the numbers have been considerably better all the years after that.......again, these are all just my theories......no science behind it but then again....even science doesn't quite understand this magnificent creature yet but that will change in a few years.....more on that later on this spring:thumbup:

I was thinking more of timing. Weather tonight showed low teens for 10 more days + except for maybe Sat. - new record lows expected at night. I go along the Thames flood plain to find them and right now the snow there is about 2+ feet deep + large drifts.

Great post!!! Training starts next week!!! Yay!!

My guess and we can only guess......but judging from other years with similar weather patterns and looking daily at that Migration Map I posted earlier on.....the first WC should start showing up here in Ont around March 21 and onward......just a guess though. Having said that....Robbins have been showing up as of late here in Ont....so, ya never know!

news flash from a friend:

" Woodcock seen in Ohio to day." (S.E.Ohio)