Picking a puppy

Have started the process of picking a puppy. There are 8 females in the litter and not one of them is a dud at 5 wks but that's not to say things won't change. The fellow that gets second pick was there as well and he had the same problem. I had taken a pigeon, chukar and dove with me. They were all over those birds, not one of them showed a disinterest. I also had the 14 wk old yellow that I am house training with me. They showed no fear of her either. Clamouring against the X-pen every time she got close. I have narrowed it down to two and hopefully I will be able to get to see them a couple of more times next week. The breeder will also keep watching the two for me. Wish there were 2 females and 8 males that would have made my decision a lot easier.

You're a lucky guy. I was going to put a link I like about picking a dominant pup , but then I thought that maybe you don't want a dominant pup. This is the page for " puppy temperament testing" that you might find interesting.

https://www.google.ca/search?sourcei....0.J6d3ENTmkJo

I want a bold puppy. One of the ones I really like is the first to try to get out of the whelping pen. I imagine by the end of the weekend she will have mastered the feat. They are like peas in a pod right now. One or two are a little bigger and these are the ones the second pick has his eye on. Lucky we are not wanting exactly the same thing. I will take a look at the search but often think that picking a puppy is a crap shoot and you really need to go with your gut reaction. No matter what she willbe my girl and take her place among the others on the couches and bed. They are all spoiled rotten.

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Originally Posted by ebenezer

Have started the process of picking a puppy. There are 8 females in the litter and not one of them is a dud at 5 wks but that's not to say things won't change. The fellow that gets second pick was there as well and he had the same problem. I had taken a pigeon, chukar and dove with me. They were all over those birds, not one of them showed a disinterest. I also had the 14 wk old yellow that I am house training with me. They showed no fear of her either. Clamouring against the X-pen every time she got close. I have narrowed it down to two and hopefully I will be able to get to see them a couple of more times next week. The breeder will also keep watching the two for me. Wish there were 2 females and 8 males that would have made my decision a lot easier.

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Are Ruth and Anna's pups?

I think even an 8 -10 week old pup is a crap shoot at best. Close your eyes and grab one lol

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Originally Posted by Cass

I think even an 8 -10 week old pup is a crap shoot at best. Close your eyes and grab one lol

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Yup, Cass, I reckon that's exactly what your breeder did - only he didn't grab one (or "two":whacked:) convincingly enough. So you got Jake instead of Jacqueline...

MG

LOL you may be right crackerd. Maybe I should've phrased that differently. Have the breeder separate the females and then close your eyes and grab one hahahaha

Picking puppies is great. Wondering if you have that 1 in a 100 or 1 in a 1000 pup in your hands. I like a bold pup too. Give me the crazy one that is too wild for everyone else. If it was a pointer pup I would say just pick the one with the markings you like the most but that wouldn't work in your situation.

Hope you get the dog you are looking for.

I'm like Jakezilla, I want my pup wound right up, the one the kids run from, cuz when it's training time I'd rather reel em in then try to turn them on....

First time dog owners would be wise to go for that middle pup - not too dominant, not too submissive.jmo

Works for us old folks too, I'm over picking the zippiest pup in the bunch. Now I want one that I won't have to butt heads with every day, but with drive in the field.

Smart.:-) I haven't learned that lesson yet - still buying JRTs.:-)

I look for the smartest pup and not necessarily the "craziest" pup. I look for balance because after all, they are just young pups. I look at conformation because it was once said that the pup you see at 7 weeks will go through many changes before reverting to an adult version of that 7 week old pup. There are certain traits that I look for in that young pup that will most often make him/her display strong natural ability traits as well as trainability, once formal training is initiated. I look for pups that are confident within themselves. I look for tail set as much or more than I do how they are carrying that tail at any given time because that will have a tangible value when they grow up. I look at their eyes because when you have been around dogs for some time, the eyes can tell you a great deal.
I stay away from big, silly-bold pups (too often not the brightest and their edginess can become an issue) or wall flowers (lacking fire/drive/self confidence).
Then my intuition kicks in........ :)

Probably a newbie question, but why are you dead set on picking a female?

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Originally Posted by dlabrech

Probably a newbie question, but why are you dead set on picking a female?

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While that specific question deserves a specific answer from the original poster, I do have an opinion on this topic as a whole. Some people have a specific preference to male or female. It could be related to past experience, the existing dogs that are in the house, etc. I myself like my girls for a number of reasons, none of which I can be talked out of. One argument against getting a female is that they come into season. The easy answer to that is to get them spayed (which also has many factors, repercussions and things to consider). I find male dogs and I are not suited for each other for a number of reasons: I dislike marking, I dislike that if they smell a female, the brain *tends* to go out the window, I dislike the potential for aggressive behaviour toward other males as they are going through their growing pains (and with some dogs, those pains never end). While I am also a firm believer that ALL of these things can be addressed through good training, they are still things that I'm not crazy about. I lean toward a female every time. Put me in a room with a litter of puppies, and I will gravitate toward a female nine times out of ten. I just spent last fall looking at a litter of ten or eleven black puppies. All identical. There was one girl in particular that I kept noticing, long before the pups had their coloured collars on to identify them. What it all comes down to is you like what you like. No one can tell you you're wrong for liking what you like.

Generally speaking, I like a calmer pup that also shows alertness and interest in its surroundings. For me, it doesn't have to be full of beans to be an alert and attentive dog. It doesn't necessarily have to be male or female but over the years, I seem to have mostly chosen females. I do find females somewhat easier to train. The males have tended to be more affectionate. The one thing that will rule out a puppy right away is if it whines for attention or for no reason. I also like to consider what the breeder has to say about each pup.

Well said BG. Some people just have a preference and some people have specific reasons. I know people that prefer males because some females can get squirelly when they are in heat and don't do well in competition during their cycle. I know people that prefer males and they have a list as long as BG's about why they don't like females. Like BG said, it comes down to what you like and there is no right or wrong.

Ugo I understand what you are saying but I don't necessarily look for the same things as you and we all have our reasons. I have some specific things I want in a pup, reasons why I want them and "crazy" is open to interpretation. I would like the pup to have everything but few, if any do, and we need to prioritize our desires because there are trade offs. I have a few experiments going on with dogs right now and it will take a few more years to find out if I am right, wrong or somewhere in between. I don't want to go on and hijack this thread but when it comes to puppies I am interested in the thoughts of yourself, Krakadawn, Crakered, Tim Tufts, Werner, Dakota Creek as well as a few others with the reasons behind everyone's thoughts. The different personalities, disciplines and training methods will lead people to look for different things in the pups and I would like to hear it from the experienced folk. If we could keep it specific to hunting dogs/trial dogs while keeping the googler's and armchair trainers at bay we all just might learn something.

I have a preference for females. Over the last 20 years I have had 2 males. The first was from my first litter. I wanted a female then but was presented with 6 males puppies. I loved my boy and really felt his loss. I now have a male, again my breeding. He is a good dog but has been much harder to bond with than the females this may be because he spent time with a pro trainer as a puppy. I have 2 intact females and my sister has 2 intact males. Bringing a 4th male in to the mix just doesn't fit. There are times when life becomes a really juggling act.
I am hoping that the new pup will have the drive and trainablility of her dam and sire. I am looking for that pup which shows the boldness and curiousity that will make for a good partnership. I was once told you can take it out of them but you can't put it in.

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Originally Posted by bdog

I'm like Jakezilla, I want my pup wound right up, the one the kids run from, cuz when it's training time I'd rather reel em in then try to turn them on....

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Agree there.

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Originally Posted by Ugo

I look for the smartest pup and not necessarily the "craziest" pup. I look for balance because after all, they are just young pups. I look at conformation because it was once said that the pup you see at 7 weeks will go through many changes before reverting to an adult version of that 7 week old pup. There are certain traits that I look for in that young pup that will most often make him/her display strong natural ability traits as well as trainability, once formal training is initiated. I look for pups that are confident within themselves. I look for tail set as much or more than I do how they are carrying that tail at any given time because that will have a tangible value when they grow up. I look at their eyes because when you have been around dogs for some time, the eyes can tell you a great deal.
I stay away from big, silly-bold pups (too often not the brightest and their edginess can become an issue) or wall flowers (lacking fire/drive/self confidence).
Then my intuition kicks in........ :)

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What UGO said.:)

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Originally Posted by Jakezilla

I don't want to go on and hijack this thread but when it comes to puppies I am interested in the thoughts of yourself, Krakadawn, Crakered, Tim Tufts, Werner, Dakota Creek as well as a few others with the reasons behind everyone's thoughts. The different personalities, disciplines and training methods will lead people to look for different things in the pups and I would like to hear it from the experienced folk.

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I was under the impression this was a public forum? If you only take information from those that agree with you you will learn nothing
maybe you should take your xenophobic attitude and start your own Blog or Forum

When looking for a pup. I will select the type of breed I want and in the final selection, look for the one who will bond with me and my wife best. You can do anything with an animal that loves you and is willing.

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Originally Posted by yellow dog

What UGO said.:)

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What UGO said exactly.

I am so very thankful that I buy from breeders who invest a great deal of time watching the puppies over the course of the 8 weeks and since they are around the puppies and watched the development over that that time I trust their judgement in selecting the best puppy for my individual needs (breeding, conformation, field etc.) and experience level and lifestyle. I am also very thankful that I buy from breeders who invest the time to socialize and stimulate the puppies early neurological development so that they are well adjusted.

I asked for certain qualities in Titan and I got what I asked for, he is extremely well balanced. Perfect temperament in and out of the home (he is amazing with my daughter, well mannered around strange dogs and people, has achieved various titles), perfect field drive and hunting abilities for my needs (he is not hard headed or stubborn, he isn't wild or uncontrollable and he isn't meek or lackluster) , great conformation and should be able to attain it as he fills out) - I prefer a balanced puppy.

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Originally Posted by Blackwolf

I was under the impression this was a public forum? If you only take information from those that agree with you you will learn nothing
maybe you should take your xenophobic attitude and start your own Blog or Forum

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I am interested in the thoughts and knowledge of those with experience and a proven track record. I might not necessarily agree with them but I will respect their opinion. This kind of BS you are starting leads to locked and deleted threads.

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Originally Posted by Blackwolf

I was under the impression this was a public forum? If you only take information from those that agree with you you will learn nothing
maybe you should take your xenophobic attitude and start your own Blog or Forum

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No kidding. Only legends need apply, and this is my thread now.

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Originally Posted by maplevizsla

What UGO said exactly.

I am so very thankful that I buy from breeders who invest a great deal of time watching the puppies over the course of the 8 weeks and since they are around the puppies and watched the development over that that time I trust their judgement in selecting the best puppy for my individual needs (breeding, conformation, field etc.) and experience level and lifestyle. I am also very thankful that I buy from breeders who invest the time to socialize and stimulate the puppies early neurological development so that they are well adjusted.

I asked for certain qualities in Titan and I got what I asked for, he is extremely well balanced. Perfect temperament in and out of the home (he is amazing with my daughter, well mannered around strange dogs and people, has achieved various titles), perfect field drive and hunting abilities for my needs (he is not hard headed or stubborn, he isn't wild or uncontrollable and he isn't meek or lackluster) , great conformation and should be able to attain it as he fills out) - I prefer a balanced puppy.

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Right on. I don't get a choice with any of the ethical breeders I spoke to, or the one I'm dealing with, which makes perfect sense for the very reasons you described.
It took me a little while to wrap my head around not getting to pick my own pup, but I'm more than OK with it once I understood the reasons why.

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Originally Posted by Blackwolf

When looking for a pup. I will select the type of breed I want and in the final selection, look for the one who will bond with me and my wife best. You can do anything with an animal that loves you and is willing.

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I think most would agree with the potential of solid bonding but how does one go about making a decision that would support that goal?

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Originally Posted by Jakezilla

Ugo I understand what you are saying but I don't necessarily look for the same things as you and we all have our reasons. I have some specific things I want in a pup, reasons why I want them and "crazy" is open to interpretation. I would like the pup to have everything but few, if any do, and we need to prioritize our desires because there are trade offs. I have a few experiments going on with dogs right now and it will take a few more years to find out if I am right, wrong or somewhere in between. I don't want to go on and hijack this thread but when it comes to puppies I am interested in the thoughts of yourself, Krakadawn, Crakered, Tim Tufts, Werner, Dakota Creek as well as a few others with the reasons behind everyone's thoughts. The different personalities, disciplines and training methods will lead people to look for different things in the pups and I would like to hear it from the experienced folk. If we could keep it specific to hunting dogs/trial dogs while keeping the googler's and armchair trainers at bay we all just might learn something.

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Wow for the first time I'm speechless ???????????

Why YD that post was on page two or did you already know that and are just jumping on the bandwagon?
Jakezilla has a point lots of Armchair expert's on here.

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Originally Posted by trkyhntr21

Why YD that post was on page two or did you already know that and are just jumping on the bandwagon?
Jakezilla has a point lots of Armchair expert's on here.

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Easy Lad didn't see it and believe me if i have something to say I spell it out.

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Originally Posted by yellow dog

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Originally Posted by trkyhntr21

Why YD that post was on page two or did you already know that and are just jumping on the bandwagon?
Jakezilla has a point lots of Armchair expert's on here.

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Easy Lad didn't see it and believe me if i have something to say I spell it out.

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Okay sorry if it sounded harsh I didn't mean offense I am just tired of a thread that shows promise turn into a bring yer boots !t thread.

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Originally Posted by trkyhntr21

Okay sorry if it sounded harsh I didn't mean offense I am just tired of a thread that shows promise turn into a bring yer boots thread.

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Agreed!

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Originally Posted by trkyhntr21

Okay sorry if it sounded harsh I didn't mean offense I am just tired of a thread that shows promise turn into a bring yer boots !t thread.

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No problem and I do understand where your coming from, but it's one thing to think it but to actually say it(jakezilla) is another.

The experts that follow this forum have reputations to uphold and businesses to run. They aren't going to come here and be forthcoming with their knowledge if every time they post they get harassed and have to put up with a bunch of BS from people that have never trained a gundog. This should be a place where we can pick their brains and try to learn something.

Yikes good luck getting yourself out of this one.

I am just saying what a lot of people are thinking. This place has gone in the crapper lately. Lets get back to talking about gundogs, gundog training and share some good information.

I am sorry I do not have the experience to even be considered an expert. Training gun dogs is different to me than most professionals I want a hunting partner not a slave animal to obey me blindly. I need one to understand me.

when picking a puppy, there is no hard fast rule, and as I've said the one that will bond with me, and shows interest in me. I can't tell you how to do that, just in 40 years, I've never been wrong, for me.

In an earlier post BW mentioned the concept of bonding. This is of interest to me as all the pedigree reading/research we do, this is one of the intangibles yet perhaps one of the most important traits we all would search for. Yes if one knows first hand both parents or additional family members one can make a judgement call. The reason why I mention this is because in field trials to be truly successful dog and handler must function as a team. Being a rebel doesn't cut it.

I think the discussion will be more profitable to pursue traits and how we might make our best guess.

Yes a lot of topics or threads end up in the crapper I would agree to that. The people i converse with through PM's are not the ones you have listed in your statement. These forum members also offer sound advice but i would never advertise that because others would get upset.

I posted the names I did because when I think about their posts through the years it is obvious they are very knowledgeable and we should all be interested in what they have to say. Some of them play or have played at the highest levels in their chosen games. Most people don't want to train to that level and there is nothing wrong with that but their knowledge can help us get to our goals quicker and easier. Arguing in circles with someone about gun introduction just makes us all look like dips--ts and it scares them off.

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Originally Posted by Jakezilla

I posted the names I did because when I think about their posts through the years it is obvious they are very knowledgeable and we should all be interested in what they have to say. Some of them play or have played at the highest levels in their chosen games. Most people don't want to train to that level and there is nothing wrong with that but their knowledge can help us get to our goals quicker and easier. Arguing in circles with someone about gun introduction just makes us all look like dips--ts and it scares them off.

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Yes we deffinately have some experts on this forum. If those are your choices that's great but not everyone has the same ones and people are smart enough to figure out who to PM for advice. Do you know how many times people have PM me and said do you not know who you just tore a strip off of ? Some may qualify as experts in a certain areas(fields trials) but MAY lack in other areas such as feeding, nutrition, conditioning, animal behaviour etc. This is where others on this forum come in and add sound knowledge so the expert becomes more knowledgeable or legit. You are correct about the gun introduction thread and that is why i stayed away from that one.

I am sure there are knowledgeable people on all those different things here YD. But we are talking about picking gundog puppies here in the gundog section and "my list" are the people I would like to hear from on this topic. If you want to hear from someone else on this topic ask them. I would bet the "field trial" guys all started out as gun dog guys so they have been there and probably have some valuable tips. YD if you have something to add about picking gundog puppies speak up. If you are just going to keep coming after me start a new thread called Jakezilla's an A-hole and and everyone can go nuts.

Kraka's post is the kind of thing I was looking for.

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Originally Posted by krakadawn

In an earlier post BW mentioned the concept of bonding. This is of interest to me as all the pedigree reading/research we do, this is one of the intangibles yet perhaps one of the most important traits we all would search for. Yes if one knows first hand both parents or additional family members one can make a judgement call. The reason why I mention this is because in field trials to be truly successful dog and handler must function as a team. Being a rebel doesn't cut it.

I think the discussion will be more profitable to pursue traits and how we might make our best guess.

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I would love to have a discussion with him in the open about this but that but that would be tough in the current atmosphere here. I think what he posted is interesting when looking at retrievers. He doesn't want a rebel but I can deal with a rebel. The independence that comes with the rebel is a desired quality in pointing dogs IMO. There is such a thing as too much "outlaw" but a lot of the really good ones have some outlaw/rebel in them. Different disciplines looking for different things.

When ever I have come to a group of puppies I've selected by breed and parents, I'll get down on the floor and play "puppy games" with them. Like slapping the ground, and getting them to play. after a few minutes of that, I'll make a few load claps and see how they react. then I'll call them and see which will come with me. Sometimes I have more than one, then it becomes difficult. I would have to come back another day and do it all again.

Most times my wife will make the final selection. Browning is the last pup I've had to select, My wife was again mad at me. I went to the store and she was with the pup. The pup ignored her and sat on my seat, whining and howling. When I came back, Browning was excited wagging his tail. I take all my critters for walks. its funny to see me walking down the road, llamas, dogs, cats, horse on lead. Yesterday Browning again flushes up a flock of pheasant during our walk. That was out far enough to shoot them, but far enough to not spook my horse. It was perfect.

So it really is about relationship, and picking the pup to build a relationship with.

My comment on liking a wound up pup is that I'm hoping that translates into energy and predator drive when the pup gets older. You can teach discipline and control to a pup that's always in overdrive. You can't teach drive to a pup that doesn't have it.

I saw my name mentioned in a paragraph along with some of the guys here that have worked a lot with a lot of different dogs - it doesn't really belong there. I'm still on my first spaniel - and he was trained when I got him. I do have a brother that used to breed and train ESS (Ruff Mountain), though and I spent a lot of time with him and his dogs, talking dogs, etc. I did get to work with many of his dogs - enough to recognize styles and know which dogs I like and don't like - even though they are all great dogs - I like the smaller lightly built very fast and frantic ones.

Sharon raised a good point about the high-energy pup...they may not be the best choice for a first time dog owner, which is a valid observation, especially if you are training it (vs a pro trainer).

Re kraka's point about dog and handler working as a team - well, not just for trialing, but its also important for hunting. If you're hunting becomes work because the dog is a bugger to control, that's going to take the fun out of it in a hurry. I don't see people here using the word 'bidability' to describe that trait (willingness to work with the handler) - but I've seen it used elsewhere and feel it is pretty accurate.

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Originally Posted by Jakezilla

I am sure there are knowledgeable people on all those different things here YD. But we are talking about picking gundog puppies here in the gundog section and "my list" are the people I would like to hear from on this topic. If you want to hear from someone else on this topic ask them. I would bet the "field trial" guys all started out as gun dog guys so they have been there and probably have some valuable tips. YD if you have something to add about picking gundog puppies speak up. If you are just going to keep coming after me start a new thread called Jakezilla's an A-hole and and everyone can go nuts.

Kraka's post is the kind of thing I was looking for.



I would love to have a discussion with him in the open about this but that but that would be tough in the current atmosphere here. I think what he posted is interesting when looking at retrievers. He doesn't want a rebel but I can deal with a rebel. The independence that comes with the rebel is a desired quality in pointing dogs IMO. There is such a thing as too much "outlaw" but a lot of the really good ones have some outlaw/rebel in them. Different disciplines looking for different things.

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The last time I looked at post #1 in this thread, the OP wasn't you. If you don't like who is chiming in, or if you only want to hear from your select special few, start your own thread, or better yet take it to PM's, or give them a phone call. Pretty basic really, and then you won't have to tolerate hearing from those that don't make your list, because I'm pretty sure nobody else (other than your limited list of people) would respond to your own (lets hear ourselves talk) thread.

Or, as you suggested, start a Jake is an Ahole thread instead. I don't care either way. Personally, there are many others on here I'd rather hear from than you, but this is a public forum and I can accept that, and weed out those I'd take advise from and those I wouldn't.

Have a great day..

That's more than enough. Ebenezer I hope you found an answer somewhere in that mess.