My Friend

My friend has asked me for his son and himself to come hunting again this year.

I'm not so sure. Last time hunting with them his son was a lazy bum and did nothing. Smoking is NOT allowed in camp, but would smoke outside the main tent and blow smoke in where my wife was doing dishes. My wife is asthmatic so it made her sick. He did a number of minor stuff till he was cruising with his dad and my son. Both "Nick" and my son were sitting in the back of the truck. When they see a doe, they stop and Nick jumps out and kills the doe, and sees another right away and shoots the other. When they get to where he shot the doe, they see two deer, dead. The doe had run off with a very large blood trail. There was another deer in behind the doe and the shot went through mother and killed the yearling behind her. So my son went to track her and found her about a km away. Nick and his father had given up the search after a few hundred yards. The doe was gut shot.

So my son field dressed her and dragged the doe back himself. He found Nick sitting on a tree stump smoking a joint as a celebration. My son dragged the deer back to the truck and loaded it with help from Nick's father.Nice shooting, but he had a tag for one, so my son gave up two of his tags. After all he was the hunter host and was responsible for him and his actions.

The other is when Nicks father and I went to town for supplies, Nick takes off for the day with no one knowing where he was. Rule one in camp is no one leaves camp alone. When Nick's father and I came back we spent the rest of the day searching for him with the rest of the camp. As it turns out he was only 400 yards from camp and thought the whole thing was funny. No one else in camp was amused at all. So back at camp we discuss this, the father of Nick defends him My son had finally had it with Nick and told him that he was being an , so Nick took a swing at my son. My son hit Nick and dropped him on his . Nick's father stepped in and started telling my son how a bad host he is and went on for a few minutes.

Things calm down and we finish the hunt. When they leave they take the three deer Nick shot, and the Buck Nick's father shot. Neither Nick nor his father field dressed any of the deer nor skinned them, but did cut them up to put them in their coolers. My son did not shoot any deer that hunt and only had one tag left.

So would you re-invite them to come out again?

I think you've answered your own question.... No one likes lazy and certainly no one likes a jack___

...a good Christian is taught to ...'forgive past transgressions '.....'turn the other cheek' as it were.....I'd call it glutton for punishment...

emphatic NO !! from a 'burned once twice shy' hunter.

If thats what you call friends, then I'd hate to see your enemies! After reading the first 3 lines of your story I would have determined they were not welcome back again. Follow the rules or follow the road!

Yea I would invite them back. NOT! Are you even serious about this? Not a chance after all that happened. At any of the camps I have been at you pull your own weight and follow the camp rules and respect others or your gone period.

Definitely not Black Wolf! I think you already knew the answer, but it was a good vent. Cheers, Jim

You must be a much nicer guy then myself! LOL.

Don't even consider it. Tell him your boys dont get along and last time you guys dressed up all of his deer.

Simple NO! When hunting together we all got to put in an effort with work, and to get along. If it's not working forget the aggravation.

You should let him and his son read this thread to find out the answer.

Tough spot it should be cut and dry but never is. Normally I would say tell him after the events of last year that you don't care to revisit those stresses for you wife and son as well as yourself - hunt camp is about enjoyment and positive experiences. If your friend doesn't understand explain it the way you did to us or tell him its a difficult decision for you and ask him to read your post and the position you are in. For my oldest and dearest friends I could forgive a couple small transgressions by their kids as they mature but sounds like your friend needs to have a good hard look at how they treated your family last year and if he is incapable of seeing where they went wrong then the decision is much easier -- sorry but no....FB

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Originally Posted by The Wife

You should let him and his son read this thread to find out the answer.

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X2 you must type faster than I do....

I think your just venting as well, you know the answer. "HELL NO"

The problem is I have known my friend for 20 years. Although his son is 24, and my son is just 20, they have been "friends" since they were very young and small. Problem is his son has definitely gotten into the wrong crowd, drugs etc are normal fare for Nick. He lives on the gov't dole, while my son works 2 jobs. Nick came to live with us a few years ago for a few months to keep him out of jail. Nick is also F.A.S.

So normally it would be cut and dry, but this complicates things a bit

NO. NO. NO.. Just in case you missed it the first time. NO

Are you serious...a big fat NO would be the right answer....you and your son do not need friends like that!

Sounds as if your friend is inviting himself, and you want to say no. It is your holiday, your time to enjoy with your son. Be up front with "friend" , if it pi$$'s him off it may be to the best. Good luck with your decision.

Dick

Not a chance, wouldn't even entertain the thought. Your friend sounds like he was sticking up for his son who seems to be the problem. If your friendship means a lot then I would perhaps have the your friend but not the son. Lay down the ground rules with your friend again so he knows where everyone stands. If your friend can't live with the rules he moves on.

outback

Invite em back? I would have sent them packin before letting them even finish out the hunt. Sounds like the kid has some issues to begin with...but last thing I would be doing is putting a gun in his hand. Think maybe he should figure his anger and life out before he does any sort of hunting, this is how people get hurt. Anyone takes a swing at anyone at a camp I am involved in let a lone one of my family, I would either be removing myself from the group permanently or they would be gone. To me hunting is time to get away and enjoy my self with family and friends the last thing I would wann be worry about is some camp clown, smokin a joint then grabbin a gun shooting deer he doesnt have tags for, letting everyone else do all the work and then have the nerve to take a swing at anyone...................think you can tell my answer would be no!!!

The awesomeness is large in your camp.

You stated that the son lived with your family to keep him from going to jail. So my question is can he even legally possess a firearm? You and your family don't need the hassles of having them in camp. So my answer would be no.

Sounds like there are safety concerns as well. It's a tough call on your part but where your safety, as well as others at camp are concerned, there should be no question.

Not much chance of a good, productive future for him with FAS, although no fault of his own.

Under those conditions I doubt you can help him at all, as it is defined in part, by learning disabilities. So I don't see much chance of you improving his conduct when he can't process information and learn from it. Depending on the severity of the FAS of course.

I vote no, odds are low against you improving him and odds are high for disrupting your family relationships.

Tell him the truth, they didnt pull their own weight, and are nit welcome back at the camp. Honesty is the best policy.

No no no no no.

I have read and understood the posts above, and in my fish camps there have been folks who did not get invited back for less than half the issues you mentioned. But that was years ago and I have had aged since then and in my time have had the experience to work with under-priveledged kids and understand the patience required. The answer depends on what kind of experience you want to get out of your camp, and what message you want to deliver. Some of the most influential people in my life had very little contact with me, but in that short time that contact had provided me with life lessons I still cherish today.

Are you kidding ? Personally I don't see anything " friendly" in there actions toward you or your son . Maybe you mean Facebook type friends . NO !!!! It's called tough love:-))

BW, after reading many of your other posts/threads, I am surprised that this would even be a question for you.

Your friend probably knows you well enough from a moral standpoint to understand why he wouldn't be invited back. He might not like it, but he should understand the reasoning.

If your son behaved as his did what would you say and how would you react to it. Time at the hunting camp is so very special, we wait all year for it. Those memories that are made, that time should be shared between you and your son, not having to babysit some spoiled snot who shows no respect for the sport. It is your friends job to raise his son right and hold him accountable. I had people who were friends when it was time to hunt deer at my cabin, but when it was time to cut firewood or work up there, somehow they weren't around. I implemented a rule of mature does and bucks eight points or larger. They went out and shot a 5 pointer. I made a choice and they no longer hunt there. Real friends don't take advantage of you, they will give back as much as they take. I think you know what has to be done. Best of Luck!

If you invited that pair back to hunt with you I would say you deserve what you get. One dose of disrespect for hunting laws, rules etc. and total disrespect of camp ethics should be enough, they would be ex friends if it happened in my camp

Uh no. For one, they seem like safety hazards. Not sure I'd want to be around these guys with guns.

Dealing with a father and son team as hunting partners is difficult because blood is thicker than water.You cant win in these situations and I have been through a similar dilema but not so severe.I would talk with the father as he is a long time friend and tell him Nick is out.You may still want the father to hunt with you but I would take into consideration your sons view and how he feels.If you have a loose cannon in camp his behaviour (drug use etc) can bring dirsrepute on you and your camp,simply not worth it.IMHO.

No ! No !

There were a number of issues here. As you may guess I try to run as ethical a hunt camp as possible. I would rather see a dozen pictures of deer than see one animal gut shot. One of the guys in camp is a gunsmith, so sighting in is very important to us. Any rifle repairs can be done on site. We also have police there hunting so drugs become a problem. We also are pretty laid back so if you want top go out fine if you want to hang around the fire, thats good too.

So I talked with the father and explained the situation. I guess I lost a friend. As someone said here he ultimatly is responsible for the actions of his son and to teach him right.

It really is the best thing you could do considering everything that happened. When it comes to camp safety, being legal, and an ethical hunt, you can't risk having them again. It isn't easy to lose a friend. It's also tough when you mean well and you really want to help. Bottom line is that you can't save the world, and you can't help those who don't want it. If your friend is really your friend, he will ultimately understand your point of view and that you are right to turn them down.

Black wolf, You were put in a difficult situation, I think you made the right and only choice. To spoil all, the members of your hunt group's hunt , would not be right. If you have known your friend for twenty years , he also knows you well. He should not be surprised by your decision good luck old243

You're thinking of inviting him? This moron is the reason why hunters have a bad name.

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Originally Posted by ryandir

You're thinking of inviting him? This moron is the reason why hunters have a bad name.

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Well my friend... but definitly his son, and Bob Barker

In time BW, Im sure your friend will see you did what you had to do, you really didn't have any choice. He may even thank you some day.

You know if you had allowed them back, you would have, in a sense rewarded their behavior....this way you let them now you don't condone it. Maybe sitting out a hunt season will force them to reflect on why they forced you to make the decision.

I'd say invite the father and not the son. Reason is smoking around camp, smoking pot. Failure to help out and respect camp rules. If father feels slighted and doesn't go, problem solved, he is the boys son and therefore responsible for his correction and behavior. If your friend has a problem with this, then he is not your friend. I won’t even go into the shooting practices of this young man. Lastly disrespecting your wife with and the asthma issue is the reason why I would turf them, nothing else. Doing the right thing is hard, and I am sure the rest of the camp feels the same way.

Blackwolf,
There is a time and place for everything. I personally don't smoke Mary-Jane but I am not opposed to others imbibing. I do like a beer or a shot of rum. Neither of these come out at camp until the day is done and the firearms a stored for the night. The part that I find most disturbing is the son smoking pot in the field which essentially makes him an impaired hunter.
No matter how sloppy anyone might be the mix of firearms and being impaired is not acceptable. All of the other bad elements aside if you cannot get your friend to recognize that this single act gets his some banned from your camp then he is not a true friend. No one can reasonably argue and defend something so potentially unsafe.
Just think about how the scenario would have played out for him if a Conservation Officer had come onto the scene as he was toking a joint with a rifle in his possession. At best he would have pretty much lost license and PAL. The rest of you would be lucky to come out unscathed. The CO could potentially chose to make all guilty be association and charge others for not intervening or condoning his actions by 'tyring to keep the peace and doing nothing'.
There are many responses here and I pretty much think that it has been decided in the court of public opinion that you have more than accommodating. I bow to your patience as I would have sent him packing as soon as he failed to follow the deer he had shot...

I explained to the father that having a controlled substance in or around camp would make it difficult for the police that do come and hunt. That Nick's unsafe attitude made it unsafe for others in camp, such as my grandchildren. I told him he was welcome but please leave your son at home. He explained the situation as he was not allowed to come without his son that his wife wouldn't let him.

He's not coming.

Good to hear

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Originally Posted by Blackwolf

as he was not allowed to come without his son that his wife wouldn't let him.

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funniest thing I read this morning :)

BW I think you have your answer and I think you knew the answer. Something like this is always a tough decision when friends are involved.

You made the right decision methinks , BW and in reality what choice did you have for the safety of all concerned . Once the fists start flying and guns around it's over . That and partaking of the wicked herb while on a watch .

TD

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Originally Posted by 400bigbear

Once the fists start flying and guns around it's over

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bigbear - good point. Yet another recipe for disaster!

Ya but is he Gay?? Not that there is anything wrong with that.

Just messing with you BW..You made the rite call.They would not be welcome to hunt with me and my friends.

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Originally Posted by Hunter John

Ya but is he Gay?? Not that there is anything wrong with that.

Just messing with you BW..You made the rite call.They would not be welcome to hunt with me and my friends.

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If he was then he would have fit right in....NOT!!

After reading that i wouldnt want to hunt with either. The father should have stepped up as problems occured and told his son the rules and how things work. But honestly it sounds as if the father is a lazy hunter. Any chance he had of coming back to camp should have drove away with him and his son when they packed up all the meat they didnt dress or track and left without giving everyone else their share.

BW The good thing is that everyone here on this forum supports your decision, and that speaks volumes. I hope it brings you some comfort.

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Originally Posted by stilchen67

BW The good thing is that everyone here on this forum supports your decision, and that speaks volumes. I hope it brings you some comfort.

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That's only because WayneGretzky has lost his privileges to troll the thread :)

Yes it does, thanks guys. Now I have another problem. Need another Elk/deer hunter

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Originally Posted by Blackwolf

Yes it does, thanks guys. Now I have another problem. Need another Elk/deer hunter

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I'm quite sure you won't have a problem with this.

It's not often we all agree on something either. ;)

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Originally Posted by stilchen67

BW The good thing is that everyone here on this forum supports your decision, and that speaks volumes. I hope it brings you some comfort.

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well i had the same problem last year with my gaspe moose hunt the guy i was with was so iconsiderate and just a .Needless to say the wife and i left early and with our share of the moose meat the 2 other time i was hunting moose with some other guys with the exception of one it too was a horible hunt,live and learn

After all is said and done I can't believe they took the three deer, especially after 2 of the tags were your son's. Seriously selfish on thier part

I'm sure in the end everything will work out, I feel you made the right decission

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Originally Posted by letshunt_07

well i had the same problem last year with my gaspe moose hunt the guy i was with was so iconsiderate and just a .Needless to say the wife and i left early and with our share of the moose meat the 2 other time i was hunting moose with some other guys with the exception of one it too was a horible hunt,live and learn

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LOL
You...not only were inconsiderate, but lazy, rude and disrespectful to all those who did nothing but show you good old down east hospitality and be pleasant to you.
..and just to be clear, the only reason you left with any meat is because my wife is a much nicer person than I. If it were up to me, you would have been packing much sooner with out any meat. Anyone here will tell you that if you don't hunt, you don't get any meat.
..and then you have the nerve to put an ad up on UsedOttawa looking for another couple to go to Gaspe with you to hunt on my spot that I invited you to... Good luck with that.

You are right about the live and learn part though.



To the OP: Obviously I know what it's like to plan a hunt and have it all go to .
The pot aside, I would say there is no room in a camp for that kind of irresponsibility or selfishness.
Your friend was obviously aware of his son's behavior and should have stepped up to the plate.
If I were you, I would not invite them again, but it is your call.

They wouldnt be back in my camp thts forsure