there was an article in the North Bay Nugget today about the limit going to 1 eye as early as this may....this sucks but more for the nets I guess.....I sure hope article is wrong
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there was an article in the North Bay Nugget today about the limit going to 1 eye as early as this may....this sucks but more for the nets I guess.....I sure hope article is wrong
It was almost inevitable. Maybe it's just a rumor but the MNR has to protect the resource for native fishing first, everything else is secondary.
That's going to be quite an impact on the local economy, bait dealers, hut rentals, restaurants etc.
Who the heck is going to spend that kind of money for one pickerel?
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing; but my take is that a one fish limit wouldn't make a difference to me personally. Most people can catch pickerel to eat regardless of where they live in Ontario or the great lakes states, no? For example, if I just wanted a freezer full, I would go to Erie or St.Clair. Driving to Nip to stay in a bungalow, catch numbers of fish, and get sh.tfaced with good friends would not depend on my keep limit. That's just me.
I think locals far outnumber those renting huts. Check any landing on a Saturday or Sunday and its a steady stream of vehicles coming off at dark. Those are the guys who won't bother going out for one fish.
Gotta keep the unregulated native commercial fishery happy.
...............................
After giving this proposed change some thought, I like it.
According to the article only one fish will be kept but it must be at least 46cm. That's over 18" in length and about twice the weight of two 40cm. fish (the current size limit).
I think there is some brinkmanship being played out here because this new size limit has both the anglers and commercial harvesters chasing the same year classes of fish. A gill net can catch more fish than an angler but the anglers outnumber the gill nets by a large margin.
Maybe the idea is to close the "commercial" fishery in the long run, by saying the lake can no longer sustain it. Stats are easy to play with. Just saying... If the mnr is that smart
From a limit of 4 down to 1 in two years is pretty drastic. If they were able to stop the netting that happens on that lake it would bounce back big time and be a huge benefit to locals and the tourism industry and sport fishery.. Guaranteed most every landowner on the lake would be ecstatic.
One group even tried to get the size of their nets changed because they weren't catching enough fish of the year classes allowed. That there tells you all you need to know about the state of the fishery. It's pure greed. Even they don't care if they catch prime spawners so long as they can make money. Pretty sad.
Anyway, I hope it works out for the lake. Cheers
I'm with SawBill on this. The majority of Fishermen are locals and they will quit fishing there.
Which is probably the real intent of the MNR. They will still sell these guys licences, they will just be switching to bass and pike or other lakes. The native fishery won't go away until they have wiped out the species. They don't ever talk about the other incidental catches in those kilometer long nets that get tossed overboard to feed the seagulls.Quote:
Originally Posted by woody1948
All the ministry cares about is bottom line. They will rape and pillage the resources until nothing is left except carp. Watch for new regulations on this species in the next decade. And then there's the new invaders. The Eurasian Ruffe, Gobies and Asian carp ( they are the flying ones ) I hope they all taste good....lol.
If all they cared about was selling licenses, then wouldnt we have more seasons and greater catch limits to promote sales?Quote:
Originally Posted by sizematters
Interesting thread for me to understand the cultural differences. Paddy and I live in a place where, other than the great lakes, we don't even think of bringing home meat when we fish. In fact, I fish in several spots where I woudln't eat anything out of that water anyway, but I love to fish it. I fish in other places where I will eat the fish, but most of the time I throw them back in. In those spots, it's our own choice to throw them back, it isn't legislated. But then, we have a lot of people and only a few places to fish.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy
No lad because no matter what ,, there are only so many licenses that fishermen as a whole will buy because only so many are fishermen . The ones affected by the lowering of limits is resorts etc . They are directly affected by the fishery and limits of Nipissing . The MNR does absolutely nothing to promote hunting or fishing in this province . Haven't for many years . There is no MNR anymore other than a basic figurehead .Quote:
Originally Posted by blasted_saber
As far as some blaming everything on the natives ? . Well that's just not all true and setting and retrieving nets is not exactly easy especially since they only run small boats . In the past when the commercial fishery was a real hard core fishery there , you should have seen some of the boats . That is why commercial licenses on Nipissing, Simcoe, etc were initially bought ought by the feds and to placate the sportfishers with the increase in population .
There are far more pressures on lakes these days by sportsfishermen themselves than there ever was before and our ability to harvest even small populations of fish because of all our new gear from transportation to electronics to clothes . Don't blame all your woes on some Caninjuns netting fish . I've seen my share of declines in fisheries over the last 50 years and majority are sporstsfishermen related an 0 nets . The only answer I have at the moment is to lock our borders to immigration and neuter and spay all of child bearing age . LOL
TD
I would rather eat panfish, so the drop in the limit doesn't really bother me personally. I think of all the people that make a living from the fishery are going to be the ones that are hurt the most.
We do have more seasons where I live. Ice fishing in the Kawarthas. I don't have a copy of the regs handy but I believe this is only the second season for it. As far as quantities go, this is a guess, perch and crappy are.....50 I think. I'm far away from Ontario right now but will check the old regs when I get back. I keep them for comparison.
Ice fishing in the Kawartha's started in 2010 - all year seasons for panfish and pike. Longer seasons for Muskie and Bass, and slot sizes for Walleye along with a reduced bag limit.Quote:
Originally Posted by sizematters
Last year, they opened bass one week earlier as well.
FishFrenzy
I don't mind the idea of theses small limits to sustain the sport fishing industry. I can't remember the last time I kept more than a couple of sport fish in a whole year period. I like to take pics of the nice sport fish and keep the pan friers. I see the pressure on lakes like Nipissing and see how this has to be done this way. Even the small lakes in southern Ontario see tremendous amounts of sports fisherman everyday and they all have to be feeling the pressure as well.
I use to hit Nippissing twice each year - a week each time - stayed at a campground - haven't gone there since they reduced the limit on walleyes - I often wonder how the campground owner is making out - I'm sure other guys stopped going there also -
if the walleye ever have to be reintroduced into the lake then all cultures should have to abide by the same rules and catch limits along with the purchase of a license no special attention because of your heritage, this should also apply to hunting and all areas.
What stopped you from coming Joe? You could still go out and catch and release fish all day and bring home a couple for supper! Sounds like it would still be a good holiday to me.Quote:
I use to hit Nippissing twice each year - a week each time - stayed at a campground - haven't gone there since they reduced the limit on walleyes - I often wonder how the campground owner is making out - I'm sure other guys stopped going there also -
The fishing in Nipissing has never been better.
This is absolute nonsense.
i agree big jack we have had lots of 15-20 fish afternoons lots of 14-15 inchers ..
Well the way I see it - you go and drive that far to going fishing - you fish pretty hard and some days you catch nothing - another day you catch a couple but they are all in the slot size that you can't keep - another day you catch some keepers but are limited to 2 fish - that's a long trip for 2 fish to eat - I'll admit I like to eat fish - so what I do is go to a lake where I can keep 4 walleyes - I eat a couple while I'm there and take a couple home with me - maybe I'm not fishing in the right spots when I'm at Nippissing - so tell me where you guys are catching all these walleyes and what your using during different times of the year - I use to fish the West arm all the time and trolled with crawlers and spinners - with crankbaits - and everything else - going to the BOQ is a lot shorter ride and there you can keep more walleyes - I guess all the talk about netting kinda turns a guy off from going to Nippissing and when you don't catch fish it is a thing to blame -
Because a few individuals go out and get a good catch of fish regularly isn't really an indication of a healthy fishery. It just shows they are very good at knowing how to catch and where to catch fish.
The true sign of a healthy fishery is when any bozo can go out and get a limit almost every time out. Many fairly decent fishermen that I know haven't bothered with Nipissing for a few years now as their catch has been limited to a few undersized fish when they do catch something.
No it isn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Jack
Let me share my perspective and reasons for my comments;
I fished Nipissing for 4 solid weeks last year plus 3 days. So 31 days on that particular lake. Every single day was on the water after one species or another. We found walleye all over the lake. I am not any better fisherman than I was 5 or 10 years ago so now why on earth would the numbers caught be climbing? Sure some days were tough fishing because of conditions and sometimes fish are off but the beauty of Nip is that if the Walleye are off, usually the Pike are on, or bass etc....
The MNR`s data is terribly flawed. They put the nets in the same darn place over and over and over again....
They have a group of local folks up there willing to step up stocking efforts but do you think they are permitted to do so? No.... can't have that happening. But hey let's continue to allow the unregulated commercial fishery.
The real problem is that our lovely Liberal Gov simply does not care about anyone north or east or west of the GTA. It is that simple. If this was an MNR/Liberal priority they would find a better way to manage that fishery. I often think that our Liberal government would be happy if all of Northern Ontario would just shrivel up and die.
On another note, I see guys going out there fishing the same spots over and over again. How many times can you clean out the same spots? Move around a bit!
Maybe just a fluke but I fished Nip once this past summer and it was the best fishing I've ever had. On the water from 10am-3pm and caught pickerel, pike, and bass one after another.
(Quote) The MNR`s data is terribly flawed. (Quote)
You have absolute proof of this?
I put my faith in the fishery techs that run the nets and come up with what they come up with. What advantage do they have to fudge numbers?
Fish move around great distances on any water body so setting nets on consistent locations time and time again over a number of years is the correct way of determining population fluctuations. Fishery history on that lake goes back at least 60 years so theres certainly enough base data to determine the state of the fishery in comparison to other years.
My only issue with MNR is that they're putting the onus on the sport fishery to correct population issues while apparently ignoring the commercial fishery by not reducing their quotas accordingly.
Sawbill, I do not have the same faith. Their net locations may be reasonably consistent but not in good places. Maybe they were 40 years ago but the lake has changed considerably during that time. During the initial discussions MNR had with the stakeholders, I had offered to take the MNR folks responsible out on the lake to show them what is really there. I was told they declined....Quote:
Originally Posted by sawbill
It is partially for the very reason you mention above (Commercial netting) that their data is invalid. There are entire schools that get wiped out by the nets. Yes schools move about BUT I believe they track the same way day after day.
I have seen locations that were honey holes go completely dry for a couple years after the nets dropped close by.
Let me put it to you this way;
My worst day walleye fishing on Nip would be considered a banner day on the Kawartha lakes that I fish. Yet those lakes carry a 4 fish limit. Last year we caught Cigars to Walleye over 8 pounds. I also found them everywhere in the lake.
How do you explain this?
I trust my numbers over what the MNR are claiming any day.
A netting survey done properly has the nets placed at random locations so as not to bias the catch by placing them in areas where one would expect high (or low) catches. There is no "good" or "bad" place to put the net, there is only the place that is randomly selected.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Jack
Location was asked and they are put in same places apparently every year....Quote:
Originally Posted by blasted_saber
Yes, but it was chosen randomly to begin with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Jack
Hmm I would wager there are places in that lake that walleye seldom travel....
This might account for the numbers being soooooo low.
I believe that the same specific areas should be sampled every year or every study period. Those areas should be selected randomly first time around and you should end up with choice habitat, mediocre habitat and poor habitat in your sampling areas. Only then can you see and compare significant changes in the population from one era to another.
Moose surveys are stratified in this fashion.
randomly chosen locations would fine these areas. Netting them yearly would confirm if its true, and display a trend over time. Thats why its done that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Jack
Bang on!Quote:
Originally Posted by sawbill
why does the mnr not ride with the native netters they seem to know where the fish are
Sawbill and Blasted - We are not going to agree on this. I have no faith in the MNR's findings or action plan(lack thereof)
They know re stocking works but they are standing in the way of increased efforts. Their ineffectiveness shows utter incompetence. And let me be clear - this is MNR administration I am talking about, not the officers on the ground. I have had the pleasure of meeting the CO's in that area and they are excellent fellows.
There is no way that people would be doing so well if the numbers were so poor. I have had the pleasure of fishing many locations and few rival my success on that body of water. Understand that I put time in on the water to come to that conclusion....
I have fished lakes where the walleye population is in dire straits and you certainly see that from a fishing perspective.
Is there problems - yes. Can they be fixed - not without the termination of unregulated netting and a government with the stomach for doing what needs to be done.
Should the limit be 1 - no way.
Thanks for sharing your opinion Big Jack. You make some very rational points.
Choosing to sample the same areas over and over again is fundamentally flawed. Reason: natural selection. Your putting all the pressure one a subset of the species that spawns in a specific habitat while possibly ignoring a different subset that could be prospering. Although subtle initially, I think the changes add up over the course of 40 years.
I won't claim to know more than the MNR techs but I certainly believe in "the proof is in the pudding" and for the past several years my pudding has always been filled with walleye when I travel to the Nip. I think Im going to take a look at the actual data they have collected and the statistics they offer.
Here is a link to the most recent report I could find for those interested. Of special note: Figure 4.
Any one care to comment?
http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/stdprodcons...rod_109410.pdf
Quote:
Originally Posted by sawbill
I agree with with you sawbill, with the exception that the MNR should be doing more to help the fishery by allowing the various groups that want to help with stocking, spawning beds, etc.
Stocking is a Band-Aid solution to a bigger problem. If there is something or someone causing a decline in the populations, you can stock all you want and you'll still get a decline in the populations. Address the problem that causes the
decline and then you can hopefully rely on natural reproduction to take care of the resource.
The theory behind the MNR setting in the same locations is to be as consistent as possible with the sampling methods to indicate "relative" abundance over time. Increase in catches at the same location during the same period each year should indicate an increase in population.
I have several relatives on my wife's side that fish Nipissing regularly. These are not expert anglers, but "average Joes" that are not seeing the walleyes come out that they used to see. They are complaining and rightly so. I agree with whoever said that the true measure of a fishery is not what the experts can jig up. If the average Joe can't find and catch fish, then most people who go there will not catch fish and cannot be considered a good fishery.
the MNR needs to get the stick out of their collective butt and allow the public to assist them in bringing back this and other fisheries to their former greatness. We also need to bring the First Nations back to the table and negotiate an agreement where there is either one set of rules or one where we can at least minimize the differences between the two groups as well as bring some accountability and responsibility to manage the resources for everyone who uses them.
We cannot continue on a path where one group has apparent immunity from the conservation laws that most of us have to follow as well as no accountability or responsibility to assist in the management. This applies not only here in Ontario, but across the country.
Don't get me wrong. If I was on the other side of this debate, I would be fighting tooth and nail to protect what I had. On the other hand, I have several FN friends and none of them depend on traditional hunting and fishing activities to survive. The FNs in the arctic, the ones deep in the bush, yes, they do hunt, fish and trap to survive. There's are many though, that have good, well-paying jobs with full benefits that do not need the traditional lifestyle rights any longer.
The FN problem is a tricky one and will not be resolved in the near future.
Yup and the MNR can't do squat about the FN issue. Only the Fed's can
Using North Woods Law as an indicator of what's happening is kinda stu--- me thinks - come on man - gives us a break - any form of netting has to have an effect on the fishing -
People on this message board need to stop blaming the Natives or minority groups for depleted fish/game population. The people who often blame Natives or minority groups are often the guilty party. Here's the proof on the MNR website http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/en/Business...ge/279300.html. These guys are certainly are Native or minority. Those convicted for poaching on the show " North Woods Law" are certainly not Natives nor minority people. The article http://www.nugget.ca/2014/03/09/new-...fies-operators did mention commercial fishing. Who owns these commercial fishing operations in Nippissing? I am guessing probably the same groups of people accusing the Natives and minority groups of overfishing.
The natives own the commercial fishery on Lake Nipissing.Quote:
Originally Posted by icecap
http://www.ofah.org/fishing/nipissingwalleye
You know not, of what you speak my friend. Quit trying to stir the pot because you won't win.Quote:
Originally Posted by icecap
I am sorry you're offended by my posting. However, I am NOT attempting to stir up any pot nor win any argument. I am laying out the truth. Should the truth hurt, well, that's too bad! Too bad the ignorant people can't accept these facts. By the way, why did you cut and paste only a small part of my original post? Were there some truth to my original post you hope to hide from the public. STOP PLAYING THE BLAME GAME! The trouble makers who are pointing fingers and blaming other people are the same group of people responsible for the depleted fisheries in British Columbia, Ontario, and the Maritimes. Example, in Atlantic Canada which group of people made up of the fisherman that decimated the Cod fisheries and caused the shut down of cod fishing industry for the last 2 decades? The truth hurts, but people need to own up to their wrong-doing and stop blaming others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by icecap
Did you see my other post? The commercial fishery on Nipissing is owned and run by the natives. Im not saying they are to blame, but you did ask who did the commercial fishing
oh oh bs political correctness, if you think some people who keep to many fish compares to the impact that gill nets have on a lakes ecosystem you are completely out to lunch.Quote:
Originally Posted by icecap
So wait, now you're saying that commercial over fishing decimated the cod stocks but in the case of nippising native commercial fishing isn't the problem, this subject isn't for you. There is nothing worse than a gill net, yes, some people poach, most don't, our limits are reduced, they decide their own, with no real oversight, of course these same gill nets kill thousands of other fish, thrown away, every year, but yes, let's pretend that native gill nets are different, magical, more caring than another groups gill nets. Just because you were probably raised in the trudeaupian era of love and peace doesn't mean all the politically correct bs you have been taught to believe is true, that I admit, is an unfair assumption. There is nothing worse than a gill net, regardless of who sets it.Quote:
Originally Posted by icecap
So what happen to the Cod fisheries in Atlantic Canada? Who do you think were the greedy people that over-fished and depleted our cod population?
Its completely irrelevent to who is fishing Nipissing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by icecap
Nice! The issue is not just one body of water. This problem is a parasite from coastal BC to the Great Lakes, and Atlantic Canada. Naive people still thinks recreational fishing causes more damage than commercial fishing. wow!
Please educate me about the depleted cod fisheries in Atlantic Canada. Please answer my question. I am sure many people on this forum would like to know as well.
So who over hunted wild turkeys in Ontario and caused their population to deplete before the reintroduction program?
Who over hunted elk in Ontario and caused their population to deplete?
No one here is going to educate you. That's what school is for. No one is going to answer your silly questions about the Cod fishery on the east coast. This thread, if you haven't noticed, is about the reduction of limits on Lake Nipissing. Now run along and be good.Quote:
Originally Posted by icecap
No one is willing to answer my question about the Cod fishery because you're afraid of the truth. Because you're ashamed & embarrassed. Perhaps people are too much of a coward to admit their wrong-doing? Are we afraid to let the public know that the same people accountable for the depleted cod population are the same people responsible for decline in fish / game animals across our country? Are we afraid to let the public know who the real poachers are? This thread was about "reduction of limits" which led to finger pointing and blaming. Thus my responses are valid. "Now run along and be good" Nice! Sounds like an uneducated & immature individual. Thanks for the school advise, but I think 2 University degrees is sufficient for now.
The cod fishery was lost mostly due to an increase in electronic technology and trawl nets. Many countries other than Canada were at fault.
It doesn't matter who did it. The commercial fishery and nets are what did it, not anglers.
Good morning all, i did some "fishing" around and have got some interesting numbers just to show everyone where the fish are going. I am not pointing fingers at anyone just putting the numbers out there as it was mentioned earlier in the thread it is really easy to play with numbers to change the impact on your audience. My personal opinion is everyone who is taking fish out are to blame collectively, and collectively need to come to a solution. I understand the anglers limits have been reduced, the first nation until last year has also reduced their quota each year when the data showed problems and they only reached quota once since they started in 2006. There is give on both sides to this point, as they do have first right to the resource proven in court cases specific to Nipissing first nation and protected by the constitution they are voluntarily managing their fishery using the precautionary approach when they don't need to.
Anyhow both these numbers are what the OMNR used for the 2013 season and both fisheries have factored in non compliances for each fishery.
NFN estimates at 25000 kg average size walleye of .774 kg = 32 299.74 fish
ANglers Winter est 12000 kg avg size walleye of .337 kg = 35608.30 fish
Angler open water est 11000 kg avg size walleye .355 kg = 30985.91 fish
So the first nation fishery is taking out 34 294.47 less fish than the anglers but the fish are larger.
Why reg changes, well 80 % of the population is in the lower 3 or 4 age classes, fish are growing bigger faster what used to be a 4 year old is now 2 to 2.5 year old which means they are getting caught before they get to spawn, where in past years they had a chance to spawn before being caught. I spoke with a biologist about why are they bitting like crazy, his thoughts were not because of an over abundace of fish but because the population is all of the same size and are all eating the same size of bait so basically they are starving. This well respected bio is also estimating the walleye fishery to collapse by this fall, that is how bad the fishery is.
I see people refering to the cod fishery well they thought the same, we are catching fish so there must be lots. People don't take into consideration how fishing efforts have changed, sure they are catching the same amount but they are also working harder for them, going further for them more technology. Also a person who is 16 might think fishing is amazing because he hasn't seen how good the fishing was for someone who is in their 60's.
Well I hope both sides realize how bad the fishery is and do what is right for the lake and not for users becuase if there are no walleye no one wins we all lose. Hopefully they can see that, and a little bit of pain for us all now will be better than a whole lot later.
Just wanted to share some of my thoughts and information, take care all. Ice out prediction for nipissing May 9.
It's been my experience that people will utilise a resource till it's exhausted. Look how many fisheries are propped up.by large scale stocking.efforts because natural reproduction can't keep up with the amount of fish being harvested. The gentleman who said it's on both the sport and commercial harvest is right. There's lots of blame to go around.
Basically it comes down to, too many people trying to harvest a finite resource. And as our population continues to increase it will only get worse. Maybe it's time to make it a catch and release sport fishery only. At least that way it's there for future generations. The way things stand right now, it won't be there for anyone before too much longer.
I personally have a problem with "estimating" what the FN take out of the lake. Who came up with that nonsense?Quote:
Originally Posted by crosshairs
There should be no "estimate" of anything, rather a regulated entity if any.
Can you estimate what is in your live well? Will that fly with a CO?
How do you factor in non compliance when NO RECORDS ARE KEPT?
You need to dig a bit deeper here. This is a completely unregulated commercial fishery. They answer to no one.
Please don't sell it to us as anything else.
BTW- as far as the BIO is concerned, the fish I caught were extremely healthy and fat. Every single one of them....
Pretty hard to call them starving.
Of all the fish I caught last year, 30% were slot and a small percentage were over....
This included fish of every year class. Cigars to giants.
For me it's pretty basic. Sport fishing is for fun and is an economic benefit. Netting is all about money with little consideration given to the health of the fishery. Why else would they net during the spawning period when the largest female spawners are most vulnerable? Plus their nets are supposed to be high enough off bottom (18" I think) to protect the Sturgeon population but I highly doubt that happens. Then the nets are laid out along the shorelines for the birds and other animals to clean up all the incidental catch. That is illegal as it allows the flesh of consumable fish to spoil as well as be abandoned. But we all know that there are two sets of laws here. One for the sport fishery and none for FN.
As it's an unregulated fishery I would be very hard pressed to believe any numbers that are thrown out there. I would bet those FN numbers are lowballed. Why wouldn't they? Regardless, they still show more fish by weight by taken by the commercial fishery.
I could be wrong now, but it wasn't that long ago that you could still go in to a bar etc. in the area and buy walleye fillets and even cheeks. From what I recall it was pretty common knowledge. Crosshairs would probably know as he lives there.
If it's really that bad then let's hope that there is enough political will to close the commercial fishery so they can satisfy the prime mandate which is to protect the fishery.
Cheers
Quote:
Originally Posted by crosshairs
Thank you for sharing your research with us. It's nice to see an intelligent response on this forum. The MNR need to shut down Nipissing so the walleye population can replenish before it's too late.
That's an interesting thought. Would sport fishermen accept a total closure of the fishery, both sport and commercial, if it meant giving the fish a chance to recover
With all due respect, did you think to ask this "well respected" biologist how it is that "starving fish" can have an accelerated growth rate??? Every fish I catch in Lake Nipissing seems fat and healthy, regardless of species.Quote:
Originally Posted by crosshairs
Not that it matters but I also seriously question the numbers you've posted of fish harvested by anglers. I spend a lot of time on the lake, year round, and there just isn't enough of an MNR presence out there that they would have a clue as to what was being taken and I certainly haven't heard of any NFN people out there conducting surveys. So where do these numbers come from??? Is this based on some statistical nonsense? Does it take into account "catch and release" which most savy anglers practice these days?
As far as the fishing goes, this lake has the best walleye fishing I've experienced in my 40+ years of fishing. A bad day on this lake is as good or better than any other good day I've experienced on any other "drive to" walleye lake in the province. I question the data that the MNR uses to assess the fish population in the lake. I'm just not seeing it. What I am seeing is change in the habits of these fish, year to year, month to month, and week to week, in all probability based on the location and type of forage. Locations that I had amazing success on in 2011 and 2012 were barren last year yet a few hundred meters away you would find them just stacked on a slightly different piece of structure. They do move and they do school up by size. Find the baitfish, find the walleye.
My point is placing nets in the same locations every fall is a waste of time. What the MNR needs to do is conduct live trap netting in the spring to get a proper assessment of the population when the fish are in easily predictable locations. I haven't seen the FWIN data from 2013, but 2012 data suggested that there was another "bumper crop" of juvenile walleye. The MNR has repeatedly asserted that there are few spawning age fish in the lake, so where I ask are all these juvenile walleye coming from???
Thank you ice cap, as you can see by the responses no one is willing to do what is right. First nation should shut down commercial fishery and anglers should be shut down so the lake can recover. Will it happen? NO so hope you all get used to eating the other species because thats all that will be left and the cycle will continue. Humans will keep working all species down until there is nothing left and then the commercial fishers and outfitters will wonder where are the fish!!!Why wasn't something done.
Big jack how do you think anglers numbers are come up with? they are estimates for thousands of fisherman (voluntary creel, what a joke) while the first nation has 10-12 commercial fisherman in a community of 800. LOL big jack believe me records are kept, i said this years ago when this all started the first nation is preparing for a court case, they have had ex mnr training their staff for enforcement, record keeping and it was the lake nipissing biologist Richard Rowe from the omnr who left omnr to work for and create this with the first nation. They want to be challenged, and omnr don't want to go there because it will show their incompetance. But it doesnt matter what i say you are obviously in the "know". So tell me why are they moving the slot to anything over 46 cm oh great one?? As for the starving fish their FWIN data also showed the fish are long and skinny compared to previous years, but i guess in court a judge would take your word over science. LMAO any how thank you jack for bringing smiles to my day, you must be a commedian.
Smitty why would they make up numbers?? Like i said thay are voluntarily doing this and why? probably for something bigger than simple management, land claim comes to my mind the treaties agreed to share the land, lakes and waterways are not in the deal plus with omnrs mismanagment leads me to believe they really want to go to court. At least thats what my friends have said.Why would they spend $400,000 a year for that departnment and have a FULL time bio when the omnr at best have a part time, most of the time the spot is vacant.
The omnr data reveiw showes something serious has been happening since the 60's but omnr wait till now when the lake is on verge of collapse to start looking at it. Sheer neglect on their part. And during the spawn the first nation has a moratorium so there is no netting and if there is it is no different than an angler keeping over his limit every race has there bad apples. Their moratorium is patrolled by their enforcement staff along side OPP and anishnabek police services. OMNR is asked to participate but refuse.
From what i was told the first nation has even asked the omnr to train their enforcement staff as CO's and the first nation would continue to cover wages, vehicles, office space etc. They said it has been 2 years and still nothing, omnr would have 2 extra CO's on the lake for the entire year for the cost of training and uniforms. It looks like the omnr just want to cause trouble rather than work together to make something work.
Alot of this info comes from the lake nipissing summits that nipissing frist nation started in order to share their information and data with all users unlike the omnr. The past 2 years it has been a two day event open to the public held at nipissing university/canadore and from i have heard the omnr where invited to share their data with everyone and they refused the first year and spoke on water mangement the second year. You can google it, i believe alot of the presentations might still be online.
Blah...blah..blah....We all know the REAL reason for depleted stocks, no matter what or where..it's us. The demand for wild fish is greater than the supply. The planet can no longer support our appetites. Save a fish......eat a cow.
Smitty yes the commecial guys sell walleye all over ontario and in the past into the states, the past couple years i have heard they now have sales for pike, perch, whitefish and some even sell catfish(bullhead). Apparently they had the herring tested and it is illegal to sell them because of the amount of worms in it.
As for the abandoned nets, the majority of them are tampered with, markers removed, cut into peices etc. I recently heard a well known musky guide from around the south shore was charged and went to court for tampering and taking the nets. they said he also had to pay for lost wages etc to the commercial fisherman. So this is a legal commecial fishery and net tampering and even harassment to fisherman while they are out working has some pretty serious fines attached to them. My buddy mentioned that the OPP and mnr are working pretty closley with them (creating a data base with locations,dates, boat descriptions)in regards to this issue probably because nets floating around would not breakdown for many many years and continue to fish and someone could get seriously hurt. They said "their nets cost about $150 a peice so why would we leave them, almost $1000 for 1 string of them".
Quote:
Originally Posted by SRR
The growth rate is a sign of a stressed fishery is what i was told, but might also have something to do with the smelt as they are alot richer than perch, as for the 2013 FWIN i was part of it and very little YOY. The locations are not the same, but the depths are the same. They have so many shallow sets and so many deep sets, witht he 14 years of data sets they have for lake nipissing they know what is going on. The biologist I speak of predicted this 2 years ago, he is also the one that reveiwed the data from the 60's to 2011. I used to be a skeptic on science but after seeing these guys predictions year after year be bang on I am very comfortable with the data.
Apparently creel is occuring and the first nation has people out for their commercial fishery.
We will soon seen how many 46cm and over walleye there are won't we with the slot changed.
Sad.to say, but this is.the normal response every time a resource starts to go down the drain. People argue and rant and rave till its too late.and the.fishery collapses. I mean how many conservation success stories dealing with fisheries have we seen lately. I don't know about you guys, but the waters I fish just aren't what they used to be.
To really have the fisheries recover would take real.political will on the part of a government
But they will never do that because of the fallout from voters and special interest groups
Quote:
Originally Posted by crosshairs
Well maybe I am a comedian to you - glad I could make you smile. Keep your negative personal comments off the public form - you will get the thread locked. PM me if you wish.
To your comments -You see a report and I see the fish so thanks but I will believe what I see with my own two eyes. These are fat healthy fish.
Let me ask you something - What were the actual numbers taken in the commercial harvest last year???? Or the year before????
No guestimates, real hard numbers. If they are in existence why aren't they a matter of public record or provided to MNR?
I have only seen estimates, but what is that really?
This is not a "regulated commercial fishery". Voluntary quotas aren't going to do the job. Will the commercial fishermen on Nipissing conform to the regulatory requirements laid out for every other commercial fisherman in province? Would they accept the same treatment under law? Would they allow unfettered access and surprise inspections? I am guessing they wouldn't.
A regulated commercial fishing operation has to disclose every single thing about their daily catches and waste. Everything must be reported and more importantly there is oversight.
If there is contravention of law there are substantial punitive penalties. This does not apply to the Nipissing Commercial fishery as I understand it - or does it?
Please enlighten us.
FN know they have a right to do as they please on that body of water. Why would they give any of that up? There needs to be more buy in to the action plan on their part if they truly feel this resource is in trouble.
You reference a south end guide that got charged - who would that be? Where is this info as it is a matter of public record. Sounds like BS to me.
You want to fix this fishery? Get accurate numbers on the population and manage it from that point of view with buy in from FN. Meantime, get the stocking numbers way up. You may view it as a bandaid solution but at least it will bolster the walleye numbers.
I truly believe this is a premier fishery and this whole issue is based on bad information.
Just my two cents....
Seen in the north bay nugget limit to remian at 2 but must be over 18in, 46 cm was posted today
Here's the mnr watch report. http://mnrwatch.com/lake-nipissing-f...nagement-plan/
And the EBR link http://www.ebr.gov.on.ca/ERS-WEB-Ext...rchType=splash
Cheers
Don't waste your time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Jack
This I do know about a fishery. Knock it down and it takes forever to rebuild it. I'm talking years. It won't happen overnight.
Some pretty passionate beliefs being expressed here. Here's what I know:
In my 60+ years on this planet, I have always loved fishing and always lived in areas with high fishing pressure. I've seen ponds, lakes and rivers "almost" fished out. I've seen some successfully recover with good management (Bow River for one). What I noticed in every case is that good fishermen will always catch fish, no matter how much the stiocks get depleted. If there's one fish in a one mile stretch of river, it gets caught. Unfortunately, I'm not one of those guys, but my point is that if you are one of them, you will see the "problem" differently than guys like me. What we need is credible metrics, and funding to get the metrics. Until then, we don't have anything we can act on.
With the new rule that it has to be 18in (46cm) in order to keep a fish will be funny. No one is going to have fish to keep. The only time you will get the big one is early spring. Most of the time you will only get the one that are 14in to 16in. So in fact just turning Nip into a catch and release lake for walleye.
The only thing this will do is move the pressure to other lakes in the area. So what have then solved, nothing!
Well that is sort of the point, this is being done to allow the fish to grow enough to then be caught in the nets, as of now the only people keeping small ones are recreational fisherman because the nets allow small fish to pass through, the larger fish are disappearing, the commercial fishery is running our of fish to catch.. This has nothing to do with preserving the fishery for you and I. So now we will be in direct competition with the commercial fishery for the only fish we can keep, meaning fewer for us, and allowing the smaller fish to grow means more for them, people need to realize that we are the very last consideration, it's their lake now. Even the cormorants are considered more important than recreational fishery.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Bass Man
I know that we the recreational fisherman are the ones that are going to get it in the short end. Lake Nipissing should have never had a commercial fishery period. This lake is not like Erie. The problems is that this is a bit too little to late to save the fish in this lake. If there is a commercial fishery to be done it should be done without nets as there are tons of pike and other fish they do not want that are killed.Quote:
Originally Posted by grog
The resort owners are going to be collateral damage in all of this. Our group that has gone for more than 15 years, is now researching other locations, which I believe many others will also be doing. The resort owners might have to find ways to promote and have customers catch more perch and pike with different hut locations if they want to continue a winter business. Not sure catching a releasing a bunch of 15 inch walleye from 30' of water is a great thing either.
I already heard the concern from my friends that runs one of the outfitters. There is going to be a total rethink as to how to promote fishing for other species of fish. Sadly, this is going to hurt a lot of business here in North Bay. I hate to see how things are going but steps to resolve this are a bit too late. This process should have been started a long time ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmer
I for one have written Nipissing off from my list of fishing spots - and yes - the lodges and campground owners will no doubt suffer - it is a sad situation - this whole netting thing is screwed up - there should be a law making it illegal to sell walleyes then fish will be only caught for private consumption by the natives -
The resort owners are already paying a dear price.
Anyone know if Lake Nosbonsign is affected as well?
There is no affect to Lake Nosbonsing. The change is going to be only for Lake Nipissing.
Our group has talked about it and we will not be going back to Nipissing next winter. A sad day for our group, since we have been going there for 15 years or more.