Excellent meat pies in Bobcaygeon !

Folks:

Just a head's-up. There is an English butcher in the little plaza beside the beer store in Bobcaygeon. Their meat pies (tortieres) are excellent. We take in our venison (they also do bear, moose, and even goose) and they make nice 4" diameter meat pies. Nice and simple - just meat, gravy with Guiness, mushrooms, and peas. No heavy spices. The pastry is good too. I believe the cost is $2 per pie when you supply the meat. They will do small batches too - eg. take them in 10 lbs. You a can buy a beef pie and try it first. They also make good venison chubs and sausage. They have venision sausage that you can try first, before committing to get a batch done.

Dave

I'm sure they're good, but if they're made as you describe, they're not tourtiere's. Traditional tourtiere is made with pork and veal only. No gravy, no peas and no mushrooms. I should know as I was raised on the stuff with both sides of the family French Canadien. :)

Ah hah!!! Finally somebody who knows what "tourtiere" is. My mom's family comes from Chicoutimi and dad's from Quebec city. Drives me nuts when they call meat pie a tourtiere. Not even close. I won't even try to explain to them what cretons are. These guys use Aunt Jemima syrup too.....

Terry:
I dare you to go to Bobcaygeon and use the same smug, condescending tone when you correct the Irish butcher, when he calls his lovely meat pies "tortieres". Let me know when you're going, as I'd like to go and watch the entertainment ! Try one of his pies and you'll never eat a vulgar tortiere again!

Hah-hah-ha! You two need to Google "tortiere" and look at the Wikapedia definition. I almost pissed myself laughing! It says it's a "meat pie" from Quebec and it can be made with any type of meat. The most traditiional recipes are not pork, veal, or beef, but are in fact wild game. You guys have been eating meat pies (without peas) your whole lives, and thought it was something exotic! Now I'm going to find a French Canadian tortiere recipe that contains peas and mushrooms !

Quite interesting reading about the history of the dish, and how many regional variations there are for the recipe. The majority of the oldest traditional recipes are pork only, with a bit of onion, spices, and pastry. There are quite a few that are beef/pork, straight wild game, or a wild game/pork combo. Many with shredded carrot, celery, potatoes, and mushrooms. Definately no gravy, and it annoys me that I couldn't find a single old traditional recipe that called for peas! Sounds like a dry meat pie. With no gravy, what the heck do you roll your mash potatoes in ?

Re: creton - I once worked in an Abitibi-Price lumber camp north of Cochrane, and those Frenchies used to eat some pretty wild stuff at breakfast. I remember the one pot-gutted locomo operator who'd sit by the toater and pound at least 6 pieces of toast down, all lathered in a good one inch layer of "the pig grease". You could literally hear his arteries hardening as he pigged it down. He'd wash it all down with two cans of warm Carnation milk. Ten minutes later he'd be belching the crap up, and the stink would fill the truck as we all drove to the cut site. If the creton tub got left out too long in the summer, it would heat up and render the top layer of pig fat down into oil. The French loggers also used to eat a type of hot chocolate pudding with their ham and eggs. I've totally forgotten the name of that stuff.

You have no clue of what you are talking about. First of all a Touriere was originally made out of mixture of moose meat and "Tourtes" which are a small bird they had access to in Spring. None of the meat is ground as in a meat pie. No need to worry about gravy for your mashed potatoes as there are cubed potatoes in a Tourtiere. The meat is also cubed. These things are also quite large and while there is a crust/wrap of pastry they look nothing like a pie. The thing weighs about 20 lbs going into the oven. Typically made in a large "cocotte' style enameled pot and cooked several hours slowly. There are regional differenves one of them being what is called a "Six Pates" which is basically the same meat but additional layers of pie crust within . I don't care what your Irish buddy thinks Half my family are Quebec Irish descendants and the other half from France. Both sides have lived in and around Quebec city and the Saguenay since the mid 1700's and even my Irish side made Tourtierre like the French did. When there was left over pie dough they made sugar pies out of it. Most folks have never tried a true sugar pie either. Their loss.

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Originally Posted by Fenelon

Re: creton - I once worked in an Abitibi-Price lumber camp north of Cochrane, and those Frenchies used to eat some pretty wild stuff at breakfast. I remember the one pot-gutted locomo operator who'd sit by the toater and pound at least 6 pieces of toast down, all lathered in a good one inch layer of "the pig grease". You could literally hear his arteries hardening as he pigged it down. He'd wash it all down with two cans of warm Carnation milk. Ten minutes later he'd be belching the crap up, and the stink would fill the truck as we all drove to the cut site. If the creton tub got left out too long in the summer, it would heat up and render the top layer of pig fat down into oil. The French loggers also used to eat a type of hot chocolate pudding with their ham and eggs. I've totally forgotten the name of that stuff.

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I won't even mention a dessert called Grand Pere au Sirop d'erable. Basically doughboys boiled in pure Maple Syrup. Cave your head in sweet and rich but any true Frenchman would go for seconds. My wife and inlaw's eyes start to bleed halfway though one....rookies.

Dang .... you guys are making me hungry.

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Originally Posted by Frogger

Dang .... you guys are making me hungry.

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Yeah, this is probably not the bet time of day to reminisce about our mother's and grandmother's cooking.

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Originally Posted by Bushmoose

I'm sure they're good, but if they're made as you describe, they're not tourtiere's. Traditional tourtiere is made with pork and veal only. No gravy, no peas and no mushrooms. I should know as I was raised on the stuff with both sides of the family French Canadien. :)

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Agreed, my ex-FIL used to make them at Christmas. He would boil down veal bones to get the gelatin to hold the meat together, cook the ground pork and veal, remove the fat, mix in the gelatin put in a pie crust and bake.

His father was a cook in the mining camps and his mother was French Canadian. I used to love them, man they were good.

Roe+

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Originally Posted by Fenelon

Terry:
Try one of his pies and you'll never eat a vulgar tortiere again!

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Blasphemy! Pure and utter Blasphemy!

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Originally Posted by Fenelon

Re: creton - I once worked in an Abitibi-Price lumber camp north of Cochrane, and those Frenchies used to eat some pretty wild stuff at breakfast. I remember the one pot-gutted locomo operator who'd sit by the toater and pound at least 6 pieces of toast down, all lathered in a good one inch layer of "the pig grease". You could literally hear his arteries hardening as he pigged it down. He'd wash it all down with two cans of warm Carnation milk. Ten minutes later he'd be belching the crap up, and the stink would fill the truck as we all drove to the cut site. If the creton tub got left out too long in the summer, it would heat up and render the top layer of pig fat down into oil. The French loggers also used to eat a type of hot chocolate pudding with their ham and eggs. I've totally forgotten the name of that stuff.

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I listened to a generation of bush camp stories about the food the loggers used to eat. A lot of it comes from the fact there just wasn't a wide choice of offerings in the dead of winter, when supplies would be brought in by horse n sleigh. And maybe only in the early winter at that. The cooks did what they could to feed the men in rudimentary conditions. And the men ate it!

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Originally Posted by terrym

B When there was left over pie dough they made sugar pies out of it. Most folks have never tried a true sugar pie either. Their loss.

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A lot of these recipes came about as a result of the depression. No one had any money and raising big families, the wife would do what she could to feed the family. I remember sitting on my fathers knee as a youngster watching him sprinkle a teaspoon of sugar on his toast. I love that stuff! Sugar may well have been the only "sweet" item they had to make a pie, and they did. I listened to stories about my dad and uncles arguing who would go the horse barn to scoop a bowl of molasses from the barrel for grandma to use in the kitchen. That would be their chance to gorge themselves when no one was looking.:D
Stories, lots of stories for sure!

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Originally Posted by Bushmoose

A lot of these recipes came about as a result of the depression. No one had any money and raising big families, the wife would do what she could to feed the family.!

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That's exactly it. My mother's side had 14 children and my father had a small family at 5 kids. Apparently my Grandmother started cooking as soon as the younger kids got off to school and the older girls helped. I also remember my mother putting molasses on a slice of bread as a dessert when I was a kid.

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Originally Posted by Fenelon

Terry:
I dare you to go to Bobcaygeon and use the same smug, condescending tone when you correct the Irish butcher, when he calls his lovely meat pies "tortieres". Let me know when you're going, as I'd like to go and watch the entertainment ! Try one of his pies and you'll never eat a vulgar tortiere again!

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I'm confused you said he was English, now he's Irish, later he will be Scottish. Lol!

Hah-Hah Robster. That one gave me a good roar! I guess I should back-peddle and call it a "British" butcher.. All I know is the man knows how to put meat, peas, mushrooms, and Guinness gravy into a pie shell. Re: "sugar pies"- wonder if they are similar to the "shoo-fly"pies that were made by the cooks in the old camboose logging camps. It was basically a brown sugar pie with a crumble topping. Tastes like a big, lovely butter tart. Even better if they've added maple syrup. I looked up "tourtes"and it looks like it was Passenger Pigeons. The computer says the flocks would so immense that they'd darken the skies for three days before they'd pass. They'd net and shoot them by the millions. Many were gutted, salted, and packed into barrels for winter food.

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Originally Posted by Fenelon

H Re: "sugar pies"- wonder if they are similar to the "shoo-fly"pies that were made by the cooks in the old camboose logging camps. It was basically a brown sugar pie with a crumble topping. Tastes like a big, lovely butter tart. Even better if they've added maple syrup. .

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I'm sure there are many variations. The ones I had from my grandmother were thin double crust. Another tidbit I recall her saying was that she used to make pumpkin pie in the camps, out of "turnip". She said the men never knew the difference? All in the spices I suppose?

As of late I hear more people getting into wild game meat again. It's nice that I don't get bashed by others as much. When I visited in Europe (Slovenia & Austria) I found that most taverns served wild game on their menus. Local hunters could sell their catch wich is regulated by clubs.

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Originally Posted by Fenelon

Re: creton - I once worked in an Abitibi-Price lumber camp north of Cochrane, and those Frenchies used to eat some pretty wild stuff at breakfast. I remember the one pot-gutted locomo operator who'd sit by the toater and pound at least 6 pieces of toast down, all lathered in a good one inch layer of "the pig grease". You could literally hear his arteries hardening as he pigged it down.

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I had to try this just once, it was a small French-Canadian diner in Eastern Ontario... that is about what I thought as I ate it... arteries hardening. Having had it, no need to try it again.

As for the pies... I believe people originally made it with what was available. Some would work, some would not, the recipe that worked became the 'family recipe'. I made one out of a 'Homemaker Magazine', it definitely had ingredients that would not have been found in a family pantry 100 years ago; but it turned out great. I used ground venison, ground goose, and a bit of ground pork for the fat, a variety of spices, the potato was grated, some red wine reduction, I know it was a fancy version; but still tasted great and I will make again.

I agree it comes down to what's available then it gets turned into a family recipe. My French speaking inlaws grew up on a cow and potato farm so theirs is ground beef potatoes and onion Double crust. And that is it. don't try and change it for the love of god. I put sage in it once 3 years ago and still hear about it.
(But what do I know I'm just a red seal chef lol. )
You don't need gravy it's topped with ketchup lol

I will take grandmas meat pies over anything french any day :) (She was Irish).

She never called it anything but meat pie and the meat used is really of no concern, the texture is where you have to worry. If you chunk up the meat it is not right, you have to cook it down for hours.

She passed away with the details of the recipe locked in her brain, my 2 aunts make it every year and their families like it but it is not close to the same. I made a pile for the freezer a few years back and nailed the recipe on the 2nd time around, but then again I learned to cook with my grandma, everything from biscuits to standing rib roasts and perogies, also jams and jellies.

My mouth is watering . Anyone care to post a recipe?