Printable View
Wow. 114 dogs entered in the 2014 Grand Championship in the USA. Wonderful that there is such interest.
Maybe a retriever person can explain what is required in the HRC. How is it different from the CKC retriever trials?
http://www.fourstateshrc.com/grand.htm
Sharon , if you are refering to the Hunting Retriever Club International Grand that number is way low. My dog ran one a year ago and there were 429 entries which does not touch the AKC Master national that had almost 700 entries. The difference with HRC tests is that once you are passed the started level the handler must shoot the gun as if hunting. In Canadian test you might get to hold a wooden replica. I was appalled at the last CKC test, where they had an actual single shot, at the way the handlers were handling that gun. Most in the CKC test have never hunted a day in their lives. The HRC Grand is judged on control and line manners before you even get to see a bird go down. If you have to tell your dog to reheel you might as well go back to the truck. One fellow's dog whined on the line when the bird went down and he was told to pick him up. In the four tests you are allowed one handle on a mark. My gal got to the last waterfowl test but was dropped because she had had a handle in the first test. I think it may have been nerves on the part of her handler as it was his first Grand too. After the waterfowl test the dogs also have to pass an upland test.
Hhhmmm....that is almost sounding like bench shows?Quote:
Originally Posted by ebenezer
Thanks very much for the info. I see in the link that only 14.7% passed in 2013.Quote:
Originally Posted by ebenezer
"the handler must shoot the gun as if hunting" quote That sure sounds good.
Sharon just got the numbers transposed, it's over 400 entries again. The difference between the HRC Grand and MN is...once a dog gets its HRCH title, it's "qualified for life" for the Grand (thus eligible for both of them held every year), whilst for the Master National dogs have to qualify every year (by passing four, five or six Master hunt tests). Also, the majority of dogs at the MN are still run by their owners, while hunt test pros handle roughly 90 out of 100 dogs at the Grand.Quote:
Originally Posted by ebenezer
Ebenezer, I've not run a HT in almost 10 years. Has it happened yet with AKC that the MN numbers are being reduced by percentage of a dog's pass rate for weekend tests? Seem to recall 75-80% success was the target number. Also saw that more than 800 dogs qualified for MN last year so I'm wondering if reducing those numbers will ever happen.
MG
I don't run the AKC tests but in following the discussion on various forums it would seem that they have not been successful in reducing numbers. Right now the complaint is that once a test opens up on entry express the master levels are filled in an hour or so and people can't get in.
Retriever training in the States for hunt tests seems to be a much bigger business in the States than here in Canada. The pros running the Grand can only enter 12 dogs each so when you look at the percentages that is a lot of pros filling the spots.
I find that extremely interesting, I would have thought, (my ignorance) that a handler with a dog of that caliber (that can compete) would also work doing real hunting work, versus, "this is what my dog, could do, if we did hunt"Quote:
Originally Posted by ebenezer
I've never done any type of trials, or tests, and no interest to ever, as my dog is my hunting partner, but in the folks who do participate, would you expect the same performance, in a real hunting scenario versus a mock one? in terms of how the dog handles, listens, etc.
A single shot versus a barrage of semi auto's, birds falling, calls going etc?
Or do you think a trail only dog, might be thrown off a bit?
This is by no means, a jab in anyway, and I hate that I feel I have to even say that, but given the way the dog threads have gone lately, I just wanted to make it clear, I am just curious from people who are involved, as I am not.
Not surprising really. I remember years ago in my beagleing days many trialers did't hunt their dogs.
I think that your question is a hard one to answer. It would depend on each dog and handler team specifically. Some trialing dogs may never hunt because they are too noisy and agitated to be a suitable hunting companion. Some dogs know the difference between trialing and hunting and while they're high as a kite as trials, they're quiet and happy to hang out when hunting. Some dogs may be more suitable for hunting because a trial atmosphere may not bring out their best attributes. Some dogs may do well in both scenarios, but have a handler that only likes hunting and has no desire to ever trial. Some dogs who only trial may be thrown off in a hunting scenario where, for example, you shoot a bird, it doesn't stay where it lands but has a chance to run before it dies. The handler, not having a ribbon on the ground showing them where the bird finally rests, may send the dog to the wrong place. The dog may rely on its nose and not go where the handler sent it and by going cowboy, come up with the bird. OR the dog may be completely obedient, rely heavily on the handler because it is a trial-only dog and never come up with the bird because the handler sent it to a place where the bird didn't actually land. Etc. Etc. So many variables, I'd say it depends on each dog and handler team independently.Quote:
Originally Posted by TurkeyRookie
I better stay away from that test, poor dog would be exhausted before it got a retrieve LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by ebenezer
The gun is the big difference between HRC tests and CKC tests. With HRC the guns are always at the line. With started tests a gunner does the shooting while the handler controls the young dog. This is probably what you would do when hunting a beginning unsteady pup. At the seasoned and finished levels the handler shoots blanks (poppers) at the birds as they are put out of wingers. In finished you may have two handlers at the line, one honouring and shooting, and one working and shooting. Makes for a little more excitement and the dogs must be under control and steady.
In Canadian tests the guns are out in the field where the birds are being thrown. The handler may be given a wooden replica at the line. The test I refered to in the previous had a single shot and many of the handlers wanted to hold it before the test started. Some did not know how to break it open or where the safety was and muzzle control was unheard of. What bothered me was that to start the test you came to the top of the bank and the gun was leaning against a tree, closed, you picked it up without opening it and then walked down the bank sat on a log and then opened the gun. The opening of the gun was the signal for the test to start. What is wrong with that scenerio! The HRC really stress gun safety every test at every level is started with a review of gun safety and the mechanics of the 870 pump that most use. I have started to use my own 20 guage as I do not have the same strength on my right side after a surgury. Gun safety with the CKC tests has always been a bugbear with me. When they first started they would have people with unsteady junior dogs carrying a gun and trying to do a walk up, if they were shooting from the line the gunner would want to off to your right but a little behind putting you right in the cone of the muzzle blast. I guess because they were not allowing the handlers to hold the gun they did not think things through. I remember one test where the judge, who knew her gun safety, made the handlers put the gun down and walk down a fence line and then cross and go back for the wooden gun. You should have heard the compaints. I have not got a copy of the new rules yet but gun safety is supposed to be stressed in them. We will see.
Terry many of the handlers at junior level are bench people that want to show that their lines are working line and never go beyond the junior hunter level. Those that run master are more apt to be breeders that hunt. I call the HRC guys the rednecks of the hunt test world, as they hunt. Here is where I get into real trouble. You do not have near as many women running HRC finished tests here in Canada as you do women running CKC master tests. I am a female so I guess I can say it.
Why would that get you into trouble? You're just callin' it like you see it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ebenezer
Regarding the 'rednecks', the food at the HRC tailgates and potlucks is always incredible. It's one of the reasons I got hooked. I like HRC because it's clear cut and they give you a breakdown immediately of what they saw and why it equaled a pass or fail situation for handler and dog. Still being on my first dog in this game, we make many errors (the handler, I'm sure, more than the dog) so I like to know what I do that puts my dog out of contention while it's still fresh in my mind. The shotgun makes it more real for the dog, and I get a more animated cuppy-eared dog running Seasoned in HRC than I do when we run Senior in CKC.