Hey there, in my area north of Toronto the deer populations seem to be way down. Is this just my area or are you guys experiencing the same population drop? I think the drop can be blamed on yotes
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Hey there, in my area north of Toronto the deer populations seem to be way down. Is this just my area or are you guys experiencing the same population drop? I think the drop can be blamed on yotes
Not a single deer in my area, no one need apply for a tag this year:)
I feel like there's been a drop in part of my area. I'm attributing this to a recent split in the local shotgunning gangs. There were two BIG gangs that could wipe out the deer in this area if they wanted to. Recently they split into three gangs and recruited more members to out-compete each other and keep themselves in the action they've been accustomed to. I think these gangs in this area are finally starting to make a dent in the deer population. They used to be limited out by wednesday of the week long hunt, now they're out all week and I'm not sure they're filling all their tags.
Also surplus tag system could be a fault as well. Some guys are lucky to get one deer. Then some guys buy up surplus tags and fill their freezers with two three four......
ya theres definitely some abuse to the system. im sure in suburban areas thatd make a real dent
Too early to say in the areas that I hunt. Deer have not returned yet from the yarding areas - still too much snow. Will know better in a couple weeks.
The decision to take extra deer with additional tags should be based on what is observed in the areas you specifically hunt. This can vary greatly within the same the WMU. If tags are available I always buy them so that the option is available. Whether I exercise that option is based on what I observe from scouting and game cams. In a typical year we try to inventory the available deer (means running a lot of cameras and a lot time on the ground). We are fortunate and our properties historically have pretty good numbers (WMU 82a, 81a+b, 80). Usually we aim for about 20% of the observed population and split it 2/3 anterled and 1/3 antlerless.
I think that the reason we aren't seeing deer in the usual areas is because of the snow. Our woodlot still has 3 feet of snow in it and I haven't seen any deer tracks there for months. Most years there are in our wood lot all winter. I did see lots of deer and turkeys in clear fields this weekend. As the snow melts off the fields, the deer will head there to feed. Mild weather for the next week so I'm sure they will be able to start moving into traditional areas soon.
I agree with the observation that the deer are/were still in their yards. Last week with the tops of hill in some fields showing through I started seeing a lot more deer out in the open; but always close to traditional yarding areas. Time will tell as they start to disperse and spread out.
As for extra tags being the culprit I doubt it, maybe a contributing factor; but there are others to consider, ie. length of winter, depth of snow, 2 ice storms, severe cold, and yes, predators. Like species I apply for extra tags; but usually have one in my pocket at the end of the season. I am a bow hunter, the 1st tag is for my meat deer, the second is also for meat to share with 2 landowners (and my partner this past year... he got skunked), the third gives me an excuse to sit in the bush for the rest of the season. If a true trophy should happen to walk past, then I have a tag for him, we do have them, I have seen some and have many photos of some.
How do you mean? (nothing wrong with buying extra tags)Quote:
Originally Posted by Farmin n huntin
The deer are still yarded up so it will be hard to telluntil they leave for their summer ranges. With the hard winter we have had youare guaranteed the numbers will be down all over Ontario. Yes yotes are some ofthe problem but starvation would be on the top of the list. Don't forget a lotof Does may abort their fawns because of the hard winter.
I have noticed quite the increase in deer activity on the properties I hunt, seems like they have started breaking up into smaller groups, went for a walk back in the bush and it looked like a barn yard with the amount of deer scat everywhere!
ya on my personal farm I always buy all the tags and the decide, last year I didn't hunt atall on my farm to save the deer but ill almost never kill a doe on my farm and try to avoid the young bucks
hopefully
well,it all depends in how you use them. there are pockets of huntable ground near the city with per say 10 deer in them and then a few hunters will come along and knock off 8 or 9, and ive seen that happen on a buddys property and what it is in areas like that is irresponsible deer management.
Thats the point. Surplus tags are issued when deer are in abundance and MNR wants the population dropped down to a healthier level.Quote:
Originally Posted by robster
A couple of photos from last Thursday and Friday, sorry about the poor quality and distance... I called them but they wouldn't come closer. ;)
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/o...psbd79f04c.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/o...psda5842bc.jpg
wow that's great to see where abouts was that
But are the targeted areas actually getting a reduction in deer no's? What is the limit of tags you can buy in each surplus situation? Who monitors where the deer are actually harvested? Do you have to call in on a report if you filled these extra tags or not? Just think there could be abuse going on. Wish they would think of extending the gun hunt to alleviate the hunting pressure that takes place in that one week of hunting. I know up north you get two weeks but in the south control hunts it's just one. Although there is a Nov hunt and then a Dec hunt you can only apply for one. Sometimes circumstances change, work, family issues etc. would be nice if time was extended. Can you imagine if the moose, bear and turkey hunt was just one week.Quote:
Originally Posted by blasted_saber
In North bay area, iv seen many tracks and plenty of packs of 3 or 4 walking the trails.
Hunter survey cards are sent out for reporting.# of Surplus tags is different every year. The bio for that unit decides a quota.Quote:
Originally Posted by robster
Based on reports from this board alone I'd day they had a desired effect in some places. How often do we read "no deer around this year MUST be the coyotes"?. Maybe its not the coyotes dropping the deer pops but in fact the surplus tag system doing its job?
Ohh... here and there. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Farmin n huntin
I travel around Mid-western Ontario a fair bit with work, and was past both these sites yesterday, and deer were again out in the same open fields. These were not the biggest herds I have seen; just the ones that I stopped and took photos of. Not surprisingly the largest herds were on properties that have QDMA signs posted... maybe there is something to that, how was that movie "Build it and they will come"
Just like the survey cards helped the moose population and remember the bears. MNR isn't what it used to be and with many jobs or duties outsourced over the years who is really tracking populations, or are they just into tracking license revenues$$$$$$$.Quote:
Originally Posted by blasted_saber
Seen a lot more deer than normal here.
lots of deer in are area this spring thy made It thru the winter just fine in area 90 DUTCH
Ontario's moose herd has been on an overall incline over the past few decades. Its a great example of proper management for the benefit of the herd. An argument can be made of course about the way tags are distributed, but the herd itself has been managed with great success.
Quote:
Originally Posted by robster
well the problem with the MNR and their population surveys is that aot of these mnr guys calling the shot work in an office downtown and the only time they've seen a deer or a moose is over the internet.
On the two farms I hunt in 87d the deer look good. Like clock work they are out every night feeding in the hay fields. One farm I counted 9 deer the other 13. Also they looked to be in good condition for the winter we had.
I am happy to report that in Chelmsford and Val Caron area, the deer look to be back. Still worried about our local deer population but so far so good. I was going to start feeding the deer behind my house. But I might let them be. I haven't gone to Manitoulin. The problem in some part of the island are the large packs of wolves. An OPP officer reported a pack of 20+ wolves. That's a huge problem.
Not sure about Southern Ontario, although the moose population in Northern Ontario is not on an incline, as the number of tags available continues and has continued for decades to decline.
The surveys are mailed to Bracebridge and each district has a biologist whom sets the tag quotas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Farmin n huntin
And I know my local biologist responsible for tag numbners and he is a big game hunter. In pretty much every case where I've seen people claim that some guy who isn't part of the life makes the rules, they've been wrong. Most people are actually interested and do the best with the resources they have.Quote:
Originally Posted by blasted_saber
The gov't cut back and the MNR has dwindled down as well. So yes whoever is around is doing what they can with the resources left to them.
Getting single deer on the trail cams as opposed to 2 or 3 as we did this time last year, hopefully its just early for my area
Makes me wonder how accurate the MNR really is with their estimations of populations.....I mean...how can they really tell
They can't. They can get a very rough estimate of the population based on hunter questionnaires, vehicle collisions, crop damage ect and thats about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtedd
Its hard to say if the populations are actually up or down, and I'm curious what the harvest rates have been for the past few years. I personally don't think they've changed. Some people have great years, and then the next one they're worried that the deer are going extinct. Meanwhile there is still standing corn in the field beside their woodlot... and we all know whats in there, right?