Outfitter's Tag and Rates

I've ranted enough on this tag stuff. I would like to know if the tag allocations to the outfitters have been reduced or eliminated. I would suspect not and their rates should or would be increased. As many outfitters cater to the amercian's and non resident, I see moose hunting is only going to be for the rich and famous.

You would think that making it easier and most effective for the residents would be the way to go. Outfitters already have no access posted on the roads going to their lakes which limits our access.

Just a thought, if our tag allocations have been cut, then those going to the outfitters should be eliminated and given to the residents of that zone.

"E"

Agree 100%...But I doubt it happened !

Great idea. It would be interesting to hear from an outfitter on this

sounds good to me

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Originally Posted by Elvis

I've ranted enough on this tag stuff. I would like to know if the tag allocations to the outfitters have been reduced or eliminated. I would suspect not and their rates should or would be increased. As many outfitters cater to the amercian's and non resident, I see moose hunting is only going to be for the rich and famous.

You would think that making it easier and most effective for the residents would be the way to go. Outfitters already have no access posted on the roads going to their lakes which limits our access.

Just a thought, if our tag allocations have been cut, then those going to the outfitters should be eliminated and given to the residents of that zone.

"E"

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90% of Outfitters in NE Ontario have ONE tag ... if they have any at all.

It's not your Outfitters hurting the Moose Hunt ... it's the mismanagement of the MNR and Ontario Government.

Don't be picking on the Outfitters that you assume have dozens of tags

Last year when my friend and I questioned an MNR biologist about the tag allocation for outfitters, we were told that their quota is generally 10 percent of the number allocated to the particular WMU. that they are in .
The actual distribution of tags is done by a man in Sioux Lookout who is head of the Ontario Tourist Outfitters Assoc.
We spoke with this fellow , but I don't want to give out his name or phone number .

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Originally Posted by skull

90% of Outfitters in NE Ontario have ONE tag ... if they have any at all.

It's not your Outfitters hurting the Moose Hunt ... it's the mismanagement of the MNR and Ontario Government.

Don't be picking on the Outfitters that you assume have dozens of tags

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What gets me upset is the everyday hunters have their tag numbers cut, but the outfitters will still get a substantial number of tags and they are allowed to charge outrageous prices for them. We, as hunters have a hard enough time getting a tag, but god forbid if you are ever caught selling a tag you would be charged immediately.

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Originally Posted by Foxx

What gets me upset is the everyday hunters have their tag numbers cut, but the outfitters will still get a substantial number of tags and they are allowed to charge outrageous prices for them. We, as hunters have a hard enough time getting a tag, but god forbid if you are ever caught selling a tag you would be charged immediately.

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is one tag is a substantial number of Tag?

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Originally Posted by skull

is one tag is a substantial number of Tag?

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skull, if each only got one tag, why do serveral offer guided hunts which include one bull tag and one cow tag?

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Originally Posted by skull

is one tag is a substantial number of Tag?

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One tag per outfitter that their guests have to pay for is better than no tags for 8 hunters in our camp for over 10 years.

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Originally Posted by B Wilson

skull, if each only got one tag, why do serveral offer guided hunts which include one bull tag and one cow tag?

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is the outfitter from NE otario

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Originally Posted by Foxx

One tag per outfitter that their guests have to pay for is better than no tags for 8 hunters in our camp for over 10 years.

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I never had a moose tag in 24 years
you have had at least one every 10 years

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Originally Posted by skull

is one tag is a substantial number of Tag?

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That is not true ,read my post # 6, in our WMU , 2 different outfitters got a total of 14 tags last season , it is the only WMU where they do not get the traditional 10 percent out of the total tag allotment for the WMU.

If as you claim they only get 1 tag , they would not be in operation for too long as that would not pay .

[QUOTE=jaycee;784827]That is not true ,read my post # 6, in our WMU

which WMU #is

I'm talking about outfitters only from north east Ontario

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Originally Posted by skull

is the outfitter from NE otario

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a quick internet search shows the following offering multi tag moose hunts

Rufus At Cochrane
Lake Herridge at Temagami
Island Lake Camp at Field

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Originally Posted by B Wilson

a quick internet search shows the following offering multi tag moose hunts

Rufus At Cochrane
Lake Herridge at Temagami
Island Lake Camp at Field

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I said 90% only 1 tag
iguess the rest more than 1
Im not an outfitters i do have a friend how is that's what he told me

It is illegal for outfitters to sell or charge money for their tags. They have to be offered free of charge as part of a package. They are given the tags free from the Gov't to attract hunters who possibly may not be able to enter the draw. The $$ for the outfitter is from the cabin rental, flights, guiding, etc.

Outfitters definitely do charge for tags. If you just want to use their camp and you have your own tag it's one price for your group. If you need a tag you'll be paying at least $2000 to 2500 per tag as well.

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Originally Posted by skull

I said 90% only 1 tag
iguess the rest more than 1
Im not an outfitters i do have a friend how is that's what he told me

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Fair enough,but I don't think your friend / outfitter knows the percentage of who got what, other than he knows he got 1.

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Originally Posted by Surf and Turf

Outfitters definitely do charge for tags. If you just want to use their camp and you have your own tag it's one price for your group. If you need a tag you'll be paying at least $2000 to 2500 per tag as well.

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100% correct. The outfitter we went to in wmu 39 from 1990 to 2002 charged $1000 cash to purchase one of his allotted tags each year. We bought 5 in the 12 years we hunted with him.

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Originally Posted by Foxx

from 1990 to 2002 charged $1000 cash to purchase one of his allotted tags each year.

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I suspect he charged cash because there's no where on the books to write in "sold a moose tag"

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Originally Posted by redd foxx

It is illegal for outfitters to sell or charge money for their tags. They have to be offered free of charge as part of a package. They are given the tags free from the Gov't to attract hunters who possibly may not be able to enter the draw. The $$ for the outfitter is from the cabin rental, flights, guiding, etc.

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Sorry,but,that's simply not true. That's the way it's supposed to be,in theory,but,in the real world.......

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Originally Posted by Surf and Turf

Outfitters definitely do charge for tags. If you just want to use their camp and you have your own tag it's one price for your group. If you need a tag you'll be paying at least $2000 to 2500 per tag as well.

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Originally Posted by Foxx

100% correct. The outfitter we went to in wmu 39 from 1990 to 2002 charged $1000 cash to purchase one of his allotted tags each year. We bought 5 in the 12 years we hunted with him.

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That's the way it ACTUALLY works. The cost is hidden in the lodging/guiding fees. Did you ever NOT fill a tag? What happened to the tag you "paid" for when you left camp? You returned it to the outfitter because he said it had to be "accounted for",right? Were you issued a "credit" for the unused tag? Just asking........

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http://www.oodmag.com/community/imag...quote_icon.png Originally Posted by redd foxx http://www.oodmag.com/community/imag...post-right.png
It is illegal for outfitters to sell or charge money for their tags. They have to be offered free of charge as part of a package. They are given the tags free from the Gov't to attract hunters who possibly may not be able to enter the draw. The $$ for the outfitter is from the cabin rental, flights, guiding, etc.

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Sorry,but,that's simply not true. That's the way it's supposed to be,in theory,but,in the real world.......

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Sorry...but it is true. The outfitters may hide the cost or openly charge for tags in the "real world" but that doesn't make it legal. Report them to the MNR. They are ripping off their guests, not to mention turning the sport into a rich man's hunt.

I heard somewhere that the outfitter allocation is around 10% of available tags.

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Originally Posted by redd foxx

I heard somewhere that the outfitter allocation is around 10% of available tags.

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Is it not true that the outfitter pays a steep fee for the quota/shares? And they have to have a certain number of shares in order to get one tag, and even if they have close to enough for a 2nd tag they don't get it. Also, they can purchase shares from another outfitter in same WMU ? Just a question, must be an outfitter on here that can shed some light. One camp I know of, gets one tag, and everyone in the camp for opening week, get there name put into a hat and is drawn.

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Originally Posted by shawnj

Is it not true that the outfitter pays a steep fee for the quota/shares? And they have to have a certain number of shares in order to get one tag, and even if they have close to enough for a 2nd tag they don't get it. Also, they can purchase shares from another outfitter in same WMU ? Just a question, must be an outfitter on here that can shed some light. One camp I know of, gets one tag, and everyone in the camp for opening week, get there name put into a hat and is drawn.

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Tags are allocated to an outfitter depending on how many clients he/she has staying at the lodge at any given time. Because it's illegal to sell a tag,it costs the outfitter nothing. They "charge" the client by inflating the daylights out of lodging fees if the client doesn't have there own tag(s).That way,they can legally say they haven't "sold" tags. Unfilled tags are returned to the outfitter for the next set of clients and the process is repeated. Refunds or credits are not usually returned to unsuccessful clients. After the season is over,any unfilled outfitter tags are supposed to be returned to the OMNR. This system is rife with loopholes which need to be slammed shut.

As mentioned above, my understanding is that outfitters get shares in the system based on the # of clients they can accommodate. The # of tags each gets depends on the # of tags available to outfitters and the # of outfitters sharing the tags and the # of shares each outfitter has. In the north there are(were) outfitters that got many adult tags. In the south.... fewer. The outfitter does not have to pay for the shares or tags I believe.

Hey Trimmer21 you must be an outfitter, tags are issued according to how many shares you have. when a guest gets a tag it is registered in his name at MNR and is non transferable. Why would an outfitter refund you for an unsuccessful hunt, does the MNR give you back your money when you don't get a moose.

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Originally Posted by Surf and Turf

Outfitters definitely do charge for tags. If you just want to use their camp and you have your own tag it's one price for your group. If you need a tag you'll be paying at least $2000 to 2500 per tag as well.

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Agree - and there is no attempt to conceal this by the outfitters. They are pretty open about it.

Our group has used outfitter supplied tags a few times in the past - The tags were issued to one of our guys (our choice). When an outfitter tag is issued that individual remains in POOL 1 for the following year. Our tags were written and carried by the hunter. I don't think there was any way for the outfitter to play tags games with it if we didn't put it on a moose!

The only way for an outfitter to keep the tag would be to tell you to hunt on your calf tag - shoot a cow or bull - then issue the tag real quick and back date it. I'm sure it's happened BUT it's a game or Russian roulette for all involved! A death sentance for the outfitter involved! BUT $ makes people do strange things!

The real fly in my bonnet was last year - finding out that the MNR took out tags for the northern draw and only actually had one northern applicant! The rest of the left over northern allotment tags went to SURPLUS for the speed dialing contest.

Hunters in the regular draw that APPLIED never even had a a sniff at those tags.

I called the MNR and offered a suggestion - have the northern draw 1st and unclaimed tags go back into the regular draw for the rest of the applicants!

anyway my gripe for the day!

on another note

If it's illegal for an outfitter or anyone to "SELL" a tag. Then how is it there's ONE PRICE to rent a cottage on your tag and then another price (super inflated $) for the same cottage with a tag? THIS IS THE WAY IT IS! AT LEAST IN ALL THE CAMPS I"VE EVER BEEN TO!

And the MNR has never made a charge on anyone for this.

I guess when I decide to SELL MY MOUNTS some day.

I will just advertise it as TAXIDERMY form and glass eyes $800 ...

BUT you need to strip off the skin and antlers ..

also a few bears forms, eyes, and base .. $2,000 - need to remove the hide!

I wonder who'll be at my door that day? double standard out there for sure!

The one outfitter I know in Gogama used to get 7 tags per year. He now gets one so these guys are getting hit just as hard as the resident hunters.

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Originally Posted by SK33T3R

on another note

If it's illegal for an outfitter or anyone to "SELL" a tag. Then how is it there's ONE PRICE to rent a cottage on your tag and then another price (super inflated $) for the same cottage with a tag? THIS IS THE WAY IT IS! AT LEAST IN ALL THE CAMPS I"VE EVER BEEN TO!

And the MNR has never made a charge on anyone for this.

I guess when I decide to SELL MY MOUNTS some day.

I will just advertise it as TAXIDERMY form and glass eyes $800 ...

BUT you need to strip off the skin and antlers ..

also a few bears forms, eyes, and base .. $2,000 - need to remove the hide!

I wonder who'll be at my door that day? double standard out there for sure!

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I know a guy who sold a t-shirt for $100 and threw in a free moose rack.

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Originally Posted by gowbushkon

Hey Trimmer21 you must be an outfitter, tags are issued according to how many shares you have. when a guest gets a tag it is registered in his name at MNR and is non transferable. Why would an outfitter refund you for an unsuccessful hunt, does the MNR give you back your money when you don't get a moose.

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Nope,not an outfitter. I've hunted long enough with enough outfitters to see some pretty shady stuff. "Shares" that you refer to translates into client base. I understand how and why this happens. Everybody is getting the shaft out of the "system",hunters,outfitters....everybody. To compensate,SOME outfitters are playing fast and loose with the rules to generate extra income. Charging hyper-inflated prices to acquire a tag is only one symptom of a problem which has been allowed to fester for w-a-a-y-y too long. This situation,as unfortunate as it is,may be the last time we get to really repair it and make a difference for the next generation coming along.

I suspect the inflated outfitter charges (with tag) would be completely allocated to the "SPECIAL" guiding service that goes along with that outfitter tag.

MC

I went with a outfitter last year, Its such bull what they can do with tags, Went to area 23 with 5 guys. We got 4 bull tags and a cow tag. Paid for 3. We wanted 2 bull tags and a cow, they just printed them off and sent us on our way. We werent going to shoot no 5 adult moose but just shows how much b.s is involed with getting a adult tag from a outfitter

If the outfitters you hunt with charge you for the outfitter tags or charge one price for the accommodation and guiding with your own tags and a more for the same things plus an outfitters tag, report them to the MNR. It is illegal for them to do so. If they keep doing it and get away with it...it does not make it right and is ripping off the unsuspecting clients. (Not to mention the outfitters who are playing by the rules)

Just to point out a 'Resident's licence tag for moose" is $54.57, a 'non-resident licence for moose' is $472.18, would this not be a factor? The money that is spent on these licences goes back into a special account, i forget the name. Money from tickets also goes their. At the end of the year this money is used for equipment,tools, and studies on animals such as moose for a sustainable harvest. Their is not much their in the first place, so any bit will count.

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Originally Posted by Matt86

I went with a outfitter last year, Its such bull what they can do with tags, Went to area 23 with 5 guys. We got 4 bull tags and a cow tag. Paid for 3. We wanted 2 bull tags and a cow, they just printed them off and sent us on our way. We werent going to shoot no 5 adult moose but just shows how much b.s is involed with getting a adult tag from a outfitter

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A little off topic but how did you make out, did you get any moose?

3 years ago, in 18A, we needed a bull tag from our outfitter. When we got there, his hired hand started the paperwork right away and had to run it to Geralton to register it at the MNR office before it would be legal to use. He did not charge for the tag. We offered to pay his additional expenses. At the time, he was allotted 2 bull tags a year. The tag was only valid as long as we stayed with the outfitter. It would have been invalid if we had moved on. His rates were also quite reasonable, 150.00 per person for our stay. Some of us came early and stayed 10 days while others only 1 week. This shows that not all outfitters milk you for every dollar possible. We are also long term clients with him.

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His rates were also quite reasonable, 150.00 per person for our stay. Some of us came early and stayed 10 days while others only 1 week. This shows that not all outfitters milk you for every dollar possible. We are also long term clients with him.

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This is what the process is all about. Hunters who can't get tags for adults may not go north hunting at all. Outfitters with tags to offer their guests will attract these hunters and benefit by the $150 per person for accommodation and the hunter gets the tag (free of charge). The outfitter attracts business he otherwise wouldn't get.

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Originally Posted by fratri

A little off topic but how did you make out, did you get any moose?

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Yes, first 3 days was nice and cold called in one bull down he went, next day passed on a cow, trying to get the bull behind her to give us a shot but no go, other guy in the group messed up the chance on a bull, went up to 22 degrees for 4 days and didnt see nothing the rest of the week, and we only hunted a 3 mile long lake.