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There's a Change.org petition that is asking Kijiji to remove pet ads. It also encourages advertisers to stop or limit their use of Kijiji until they have removed pet ads. It's slowly getting some traction. Consider signing the petition and if you do advertise on Kijiji... consider stopping.
goo.gl/AW0rYk
What's wrong with kijiji and pet ads? I got my dog from kijiji... I know other people who have too... Why prevent people from accessing a legal source because of bad actions from a few..?
we got our pup on kijiji. i get that there are more than a few nitwits who shouldnt be there, but there are alot of good people too.
glad we found ours, he's a nice pup
That's like telling people to stop buying cars on kijij because there are guys on there that sell clunkers :silly:
Caveat emptor..."let the buyer be aware" ...
I bought my last two dogs from leads on kijiji...it works, great tool. It's up to you to do the due diligence.
I bought my dog on that site as well. Best 500 I ever spent.
i think we should a petition for kijiji to allow sales of fire arms on their site.. as it is now anything with the word "gun" is not allowed..
fire arms a legal posessions... (like a dog) so why cant we sell them?
I'm not against selling dogs/cats on Kijiiji as long as they aren't offered for free. ( see previous thread.)
http://www.oodmag.com/community/show...oman-7000-fine
People who need to get rid of their dog for a variety of good and bad reasons, have few options:
take it to the city pound where it will be put down in a week if not adopted, take it to the humane society where you pay a weekly fee until it is adopted ( could be many months/years? and some people are poor), let it run loose in the city , hoping it doesn't get killed until Animal Control picks it up, dump it in the country and hope someone picks it up, try to sell it on line. ................. All these options are regularly chosen. Seems to me that selling on line may be the best choice.
so having said that....what is wrong with posting an ad offering it to a good home for free (other than the scam aspect) ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharon
Lets say in 75% of the 'Free to a Good Home' scenarios, the dog does find a better home, at least better than the alternatives you've mentioned.
You can't social engineer by banning things....never works.
Hi Mike. Did you get that video? :)
From what I've read , free often leads to many problems like scamming etc.. I have an acquaintance who always wants a pup. They offer their dog for free when it gets about 8 months, and pick up another pup on KIjiiji for free. True story - has happened 8 times so far. The Animal Control Centre , of whom no one is more eager to get dogs adopted , charge also for similar reasons. jmo :)
"You can't social engineer by banning things....never works. " quote I'm going to think on that.
Nothing wrong with free.. Mt uncle got his dog free on kijiji owner had a baby who had an allergy.. To their dog. The owner had multiple people come look at the dog and chose my uncle out of all of them. A lot of people would like a dog or cat but can't afford $100 adoption fee etc.. Lots of reasons for a free dog or cat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharon
Sure there are bad people in every thing. But to BAN something due to the few bad is well.. Not right... (Sound familiar)..?
I never post 3 times on one topic - too much coffee. :)
or you could say that if a person can't afford a $100. adoption fee, they can't afford a dog
here are some options, if we ban dog ownership we avoid all issues about bad owners and scams, alternately we could have the government regulate dog ownership with mandatory registration, background checks, a mandatory course in order to receive a licence to own a dog, annual registration and licence renewal fees and a new department that could make sure everyone is behaving properly, should only cost a few billion.
This is a really weird idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharon
Lots of female dog owner end up with unexpected pups and they tried to give them away. If they don't find a new home for them they end up in the river..... This is how I got my dog, I wasn't looking for one, but grow up with dogs, so when someone showed up in front of me with a free German shepherd it helped to make the decision. It has nothing to do with not having the money to raise one....
I can be weird sometimes. :)
We'll have to do a survey on how many people in Ontario got a free dog that turned out great ,(I'm sure there are many.) and how many got a free dog and couldn't afford the vet / a license. I'm sure there are many. :) They won't be posting.
Back to the hockey game.
Back to the OP's post:
Petition asks Kijiji to remove Pet Ads:There's a Change.org petition that is asking Kijiji to remove pet ads. It also encourages advertisers to stop or limit their use of Kijiji until they have removed pet ads. It's slowly getting some traction. Consider signing the petition and if you do advertise on Kijiji... consider stopping." quote AHadley
goo.gl/AW0rYk
This petition is about stopping puppy mills (household pets) from being permitted to post ads on kijiji. Reputable breeders that do full health checks (OFA) care about where their pups go, and if that pup ever does need to be rehomed, a reputable breeder will take that dog back. You don;t find dogs in shelters when they come from good breeders. Backyard breeders pump these pups out on kijiji and they don't care who buys them as long as they're making a buck. A lot of these Christmas present type pups become dogs and end up in the pound.
Pet stores can't sell dogs anymore, and I think that was a step in the right direction to to hinder puppy mills. A reputable breeder would never sell their pups to a pet store.
Yeah sure it should be buyer beware, but people are too stupid.
Most folks will do more research when buying a toaster than they will when buying a dog.
I don't believe you'll find many reputable breeders that post ads on kijiji anyway. I think this is kind of an unwritten rule among good breeders.
That has a lot more to do with self preservation (pup price points) than it does with what is best for their dogs.Quote:
Originally Posted by last5oh_302
Besides, when you start talking breeders that is a whole different ball game and not the same as buying a 'puppy' for the family. Especially when faced with an $800 dollar bill for 'papers' vs a $150 puppy from the pound. Some folks aren't in the position or desire for a 'best of breed', just a dog for the family's back yard.
Again..Kijiji is just the messenger, provides a service. 'Free to a good home' has been used since the invention of the classified ads in your your local paper. Many a dog has found a good home with folks using the service, far more than the few 'bad' stories you hear about, lets not use a hammer to kill the ant.
I see no difference between Kijiji and a newspaper ad. The more I think about it, the idea seems to reek of a nanny state. You cannot, no matter how you try, regulate morality, and this seems to be the theme in this OP.
If not for kijiji, I would not have Browning, my Airedale. I was looking, they advertized, I bought and... started a solid friendship, with both the dog and the breeders.
Meh, I have no problem with it. If they don't want to deal with breeders directly then it needs to be addressed some other way I guess. The abuse has gone on long enough. Those 150 dollar pound pups are coming from backyard puppy mill breeders that couldn't sell their pups on kijiji, or the news paper. Then the cycle continues. Pump out more pups using the same dogs, over and over, and post the ad on kijiji or in the news paper. This ensures more shelter dogs to euthanize in the future but the puppy mills still sell their (often unhealthy) pups and make a buck off the clueless.
Now I'm reading that these shelters are profiting off these puppy mills. It never ends.Quote:
"According to a recent study published in the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association, puppy mills dogs tend to have more psychological and behavioral problems. They lack veterinary care and socialization, and often have or will develop genetic defects, health, or behavior problems due to poor breeding practices, inbreeding, and the deplorable conditions into which these puppies were born. No one wants this - Kijiji included."
This petition simply wants Kijiji Canada to remove the sale of animals and only promote adoption from registered animal rescue groups and shelters, and the re-homing of family pets (for a small adoption fee).
Another petition that's going to do no good. Sure it might stop kijiji but soon enough another website will pop up and sell dogs in the classifieds and you will always have the neighbors with the sign at the road Nothing will change there will still be backyard breeders always have been always will be.
That's true. Puppy mills have quite a world of websites out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by trkyhntr21
I guess kijiji won't be contributing towards it at least, if they ban those ads.
You are right but people forget that before the Internet there was always backyard breeders. All our dogs came from them or a neighbor with unexpected pups. Besides nothing is as cute as a puppy not even a shelter dog and when you factor in the fees from a shelter to adopt a dog alot of people take the puppy from the guy down the road.
Craigslist has banned the sale of dogs, but does allow rehome/dogs for adoption ads. The people who post theses ads are allowed to charge a fee comparable to what it would cost to adopt from a shelter. At a kill shelter, owner-surrendered dogs are the first to be put down if a shelter is full. This is because in many communities a stray must be held for a certain time period in order to find its owner. People may have no choice but to advertise their pets if there are no no-kill shelters in their area. Frankly for an owner, it is not advisable to use kijiji or craigslist. Unscrupulous people will get a pet for free and then turn around and try to sell it as in the Calgary case...or people engaged in dog fighting will adopt a pet to train their fighting dogs...a gruesome death sentence for these dogs. For purebreds, there are breed rescues which are the best alternative for assistance in placing a dog for adoption.
There are quite a few good dogs to be had via Kijiji or Craigslist. The bad economy, the declining health of owners etc. has forced people to place perfectly sound and in many instances, trained dogs/pets on these boards. It's buyer beware, but good dogs can be had.
So to have a complete ban on dog ads, is throwing out the baby with the bath water.
If for whatever reason i had to get rid of my dog it would be for free there is no way I could put a price on him. I would however be metting the people and inspecting where his new home would be.
This isn't a shot at you Back 2 basic as you were just using an example, but it always bothers me when I read or hear somebody say they need to "get rid of" what should be a family member.
I guess the word "pet" is no longer PC either since they're referring to them as companions nowadays.
Seen this 'typical' pet ad posted on Kijiji this morning and noticed that Kijiji have placed a pretty good heads up notification (rehoming and adoption) on the ad placement about doing do diligence.
What do you think, how would you deal with getting a puppy from these folks ?
(personally to many red flags)
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-view-details....n=email_alerts
Run Forest run!Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
The pure "bread" ads always raise a red flag as well. Or, Christmas is coming, Come get your new puppy now. We accept paypal.
I don't see anything wrong with offering free pet's. I have taken a few over the years.
Some nationalities like free dogs right around thanksgiving and Christmas. The Toronto SPCA had to change their screening process.Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
I feel the same way I can't see how I could ever give up the pup we've been getting old and grey together. Companion isn't as bad asQuote:
Originally Posted by last5oh_302
"fur babies "
I know of many registered breeders who have sold puppies, adult dogs and placed dogs for free and used kijiji as a means of finding homes. The key to advertising on kijiji that these breeders make it clear they are a C.K.C registered breeder and outline all the health clearances and quarantee. To eliminate puppy mills or backyard breeders from advertising on kijiji is for kijiji to ask for an official document from this C.K.C registered breeder. It would be in the best interest for the C.K.C and Kijiji to work together and push out these pupy mills.
Sounds like a good idea YD, but can't anyone just register themselves with CKC?Quote:
Originally Posted by yellow dog
Fine, maybe, if your selling 'with papers'....but a majority of ads on Kijiji are people selling/finding homes for their personal pets or their offspring..not 'breeders'. It's a great tool to be able to pick up a dog for the kids to play with in the yard.Quote:
Originally Posted by yellow dog
I don't see how Kijiji is doing anything wrong with the way is now. The ad I linked to does more than should be required to tell people to be diligent.
Yes anyone can be a C.K.C member and become a breeder but you need to abide by C.K.C bylaws as a breeder. If you are not following this bylaw and breeder code of ethics you risk having your membership pulled. Also a fine can be issued and also in some cases you can be brought to court. I do not believe it is a great tool for someone to pick up a pup for the kids considering it's a cr*p shoot when you have no quarantees on any future health issues. Nothing worse than getting one of these puppies for the kids and the dog gets sick because of poor breeding practices( puppy mill). Also in many cases a lifetime of health issues and high vet bills .
Bang on YD. Like I've said before, people don't have a clue and will do more research when buying a toaster than they will with a possible new member of the family that is gong to be living with them for the next 8-15 years. Buy that pup for the kids to play in the backyard but good luck on it's temperament and good luck with the vet bills. Most will just give the dogs up, or get another one from some other back yard "greeder". Again, it's that nasty cycle.Quote:
Originally Posted by yellow dog
As for the CKC, they don't care if breeders do health checks (or at least this is my understanding) so what ethics are there to follow?
What I'm getting at here is just because a "breeder" is registered with the CKC and can get papers it doesn't mean squat as far as the quality of the dogs they produce.
Hey that's plagiarism from the "Breeders of America" FAQ page...."what to say if someone says they'll adopt a dog from the pound"....Quote:
Originally Posted by yellow dog
Poppycock !!! ..just a bunch of fear mongering by those that see a threat to their business.
Hmm eliminate puppy mills and the ability for them to advertise these poor unhealthy animals would mean far less dogs to be adopted from the pound.Poppycock I think not !!!
Well you better hit google Ole Yellar and start finding me some facts to support your 'opinion'...I want to know statistically how many sickly dogs are adopted from a pound and then compare that to pure breeds that have inbreed health concerns.Quote:
Originally Posted by yellow dog
Lots of 'smoke and mirrors' out there...
I had a puppy mill dog and an adopted dog from the pound. The puppy mill dog was definitely not a healthy dog, and my adopted (pure bred) rottie started having leg issues at the age of 5. I believe Sharon mentioned she wouldn't go the adoption route anymore as well due to the health problems her dogs had.
Just because a dog is pure bred doesn't mean it was well bred. There are plenty of BYB and puppy milled pure breds out there as well. A lot of them even come with papers.
One should ask if they can't afford $100 for adoption, how can afford the food and for the welfare of the dog (checkups, shots and flea medicine) on monthly and yearly basis.Quote:
Originally Posted by topher
There are quite a few articles out there stating that puppy mill dogs are a high risk. Really it only makes sense when you consider bad health being passed on, lack of socialization, abuse, just poor breeding etc.
Penn Vet study finds pet store puppies come with increased risk
http://www.upenn.edu/pennnews/curren...increased-risk
On Puppies, Pet Stores, and Behaviour Problems
http://www.companionanimalpsychology...behaviour.html
Pet Store Puppies From Puppy Mills Are More Lilkely To Become Aggressive
http://tobyproject.org/blog-entries/...ome-aggressive
Well this Ole Yellar have seen many unhealthy pups and adult dogs from backyard breeders and puppy mill dogs. I was a breeder for over twenty years producing top working bloodline Siberian Huskies. Never had a dog returned in those twenty plus years because I had a well thought out breeding program working along side other top notch breeders racers. That is my proof .... i don't need google for statistics. All purebred breeds may have issues, its the breeders that do not educate themselves thinking they can do it on their own and not seeking advice and connecting to years of experienced breeders. Purebred breeders with ethics who continue to strive in making a breed better for the future do exist. I think i would sooner acquire a new pup or adult dog from someone with this mindset or mentality than a puppy mill dog or backyard breeder.
Well Ole Yellar...if we're going anecdotal ; the only dogs I have ever had 'breed' issues with in the over 45 yrs of owning dogs is with the Bernese Mountain Dogs pure breeds that my wife buys has got from two different 'reputable ' breeders. Both dogs required TPLO surgeries to rebuild their poorly designed knees. The surgeon was kind enough to show us the stats of the various breeds that have the increased risk due to overbreeding etc..Quote:
Originally Posted by yellow dog
Further more...ever buy pet insurance....they have rate tables with proven risk factors for specific pure breeds and you will pay more to insure them.
So get off the fear mongering and get your head out of the sand...you are at risk buying any dog from a breeder, no more no less than the risk of buying a dog from a lady on Kijiji who wants to sell off a litter of puppies looking for a good home.
Unscrupulous sellers exist on both side of the coin....
We all know the truth....lets just say it...you want to shut down puppy mills, dry up the money....Breeder's stop charging exorbitant rate for puppies and the so called 'black market' dries up....No 6 week old puppy is worth $500+
Trying to stop people from buying cheaper dogs is just silly.....
There are never any guarantee's. My Dalmatian was BYB, and other than a couple of accidents (which has nothing to do with his genetic health) he lived a fairly healthy 13 years, well 1 month shy of being 13. He needed thyroid medication in his last couple of years and a few bucks in tests to figure it all out, but overall much healthier than our pet store spaniel.
I'm trying a COE breeder this time because I want proven parents and grandparents in regards to temperament, hips, eyes, heart, elbows, being biddable, socialization, titled parents, blah blah. My last rottie needed ACL surgery but unfortunately there are no health checks on knees at this time. Just trying to put the odds in my favor and looking at it as a pay now or pay later situation, although there are no guarantees.
The pup is more money but the cost of all the health tests and training and titling, and everything else that goes into these dogs really adds up for the breeder. When I look at the prices BYB's want for their pure breds on Kijiji, the little extra I'm paying is well worth it, and I'm not supporting BYB's.. No COE breeder would let a puppy go at 6 weeks either. My Dalmatian was 6 weeks old when I got him but I didn't know then what I know now.
I said that and I was told I was "weird". LOL I don't feel so weird now; thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by labtalk
.....................................
"I never post 3 times on one topic - too much coffee. :)
or you could say that if a person can't afford a $100. adoption fee, they can't afford a dog." quote Sharon
.................................
"This is a really weird idea.
Lots of female dog owner end up with unexpected pups and they tried to give them away. If they don't find a new home for them they end up in the river..... This is how I got my dog, I wasn't looking for one, but grow up with dogs, so when someone showed up in front of me with a free German shepherd it helped to make the decision. It has nothing to do with not having the money to raise one...."quote SB
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I had bad experiences with adoption ; others have a great experiences. I wouldn't buy a dog on Kijiiji ; others have gotten a loved pet from Kijiiji. That's the way it goes. I wouldn't ban selling on Kijijii etc. but for at least ..............dollars , to show one can afford a dog's needs that day - at least.
That is common knowledge about the Bernese Mountain Dog for at least the last fifteen years possibly longer. You have only touched the surface with the health issues that the Bernese Mountain has . A good friend of mine that use to be a breeder of Golden Retrievers also use to breed Bernese Mountain Dogs for a short period of time and even went as far as importing so called genectically healthy breeding stock from Europe. Unfortunately the introduction of this breeding stock with clearances proved to be disastrous and short lived with much heartache. People need to do their research when it comes to purchasing purebred stock and ask all the right questions. Its deffinately less of a crap shoot finding a healthy purebred dog for the breed your interested in. It is unfortunate you simply picked the wrong breed with many many health issues and didn't do enough research. Not everyone that purchases a purebred dog has the same issues you had. I am well aware of the rate tables with proven risk factors and have stayed completely away from particular breeds of dogs because of it. But even if a particular breed of dog I am interested in is rated very high to have hip displaysia doesn't mean all breeders breeding that particular breed of dog are producing animals with hip dysplaysia . My head is not in the sand especially since committing countless hours researching genectically healthy dogs for a particular breed i was associated with. I have had purebred dogs all my life and haven't had a lemon yet. If it does happen in the future i can only blame myself for not doing enough research. The one thing I do agree on is that unscrupulous sellers exist on both side of the coin. But it's never happened to me and hope it never does. Pour yourself a drink and chill brother. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
Well there it is, that's the attitude that created the whole Puppy Mill business....excuses to charge excessive amounts for a puppy and a dim public that believes that crap.Quote:
Originally Posted by last5oh_302
Can't balme Kijiji for creating the problem....it's breeder's greed and shady people capitalizing on the inflated prices to make a buck.
When. Did dog ownership become an elitist thing? Growing up we always got a oil from the person who's dog had a litter... Didn't care on lines etc... The dog did its job...
I mean.. You talk to someone and the first thing they say is what kind of dog.. In response you tell them. And they reply oh well my dog is a blah blah pure bred.. Descendent of Hercules himself.. Worth $$$ and blah blah... I say ya.. Well my dog Is my friend.. She loves me and listens to me (mostly) in the end is that not what we are after is a companion?
And I have had 'Free to Good" dogs home for 45 yrs and never had a lemon....:silly:Quote:
Originally Posted by yellow dog
What selective breeding does and why they have "Risk Factor' charts when you go to buy health insurance.
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/episo...problems/1281/
Not just 'shady' but very.....very....uninformed people....hard to blame kijiji.
Well who would've ever thought that health checking dogs and breeding "ambassadors" of the breed was wrong. Nothing is free, except to those that are always looking for something for free.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
The sad part is these backyard bred and puppy milled dogs really arent much cheaper, and in some cases I've seen more.
Designer muts are often more as well.
Depends what you want the dog for. A top notch bird dog where the breeder can show you both parents performing at a level that would get placements in field trials is easily worth twice that. If you want a dog to hang around the farm and keep the raccoons and coyotes away from the livestock - well that's one you can likely pick up for free.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
Until you've spent some time hunting over a well bred, well trained bird dog, you will never, never, never understand the difference between a 'to give a way' pup and a one bred for trialing/hunting.
That said, I agree that trying to stop people from buying cheaper dogs is silly - most people don't bother to train their dogs for what they were bred to do anyway, making the genetics behind the breeding a moot point.
The whole puppy mill business is driven by the walmartisation of elite dog ownership - which is such a twisted thing. 'I want a dog that is a purebred and has papers', but 'I also want it as cheap as possible'. Or in simpler terms 'I want to show off my wealth, but not spend too much doing it'. It's the same logic behind the McMansion house market. It doesn't make sense - but yet, there it is.
Wait a minute Mikepal don't you own 2 purebred Akbash dogs ?