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with all this talk of poachers and tv celebrities being caught if you knew one would you tell would you be seen hunting with them or do business with a company that has them on staff ect it seem they want famous people to promote there products at any cost
A hypothetical situation I've thought of, what if it was someone close to you? family? that was doing the poaching, or told you about it? would you report them? or just choose not to hunt with them?
This should get any COs that are crusing this forum to perk up their ears. That being said, if my parents were poaching Canada Geese not a chance I would report them (they gave me life), but I would not hunt with them either. Now if they were poaching white rino's I would have a much tougher decision.
Knew a gentleman( let's say man) poached big deer like crazy, to the point that it was almost addictive. The warden new about it but had a tough time catching him. I never said anything because he was related to the gentleman whose property that I hunted on. Needless to say I would never hunt with him. A nice polite guy but if it had big horns he'd kill it out of season or with a rifle in bow season didn't matter. Funny thing is that I heard someone broke into his shed and stole everyone of his antlers and he had enough to fill a truck bed up with, heard it put him over the edge. Guess everything comes full circle.
It would depend when it happened and why. Do you mean recent or at any point in time? My Grandfather poached all the time back in the 1950's. My Mother's family was very poor. My Grandfather poached deer, lobster, anything he could at anytime and wild game was a main staple for their family.
My brother once poached when he was 10. We were fishing for Landlock salmon with our Dad and a CO. He caught his first Landlock it was 1/2 an inch under the slot size. I had told him he would have to throw it back. The Co asked him if it was his first fish and it was. The CO looked at it and said looks to be the correct size end of story.
But these might be exceptions to the rule. But poaching for the fun of it or profit etc not acceptable.
for me it depends on if they are continually poaching or made a mistake. If it was a thing of their past and they say they will never do it again and I never see them do it again then I would give them a second chance. If it was someone who was doing it continually then absolutely not.
We had a guy shot a bull moose that had like a 40" rack and we only had a cow tag. He didn't seem to care and said "we'll it might be the only moose I ever see so I shot it"
I have never seen my dad fly off the handle like that before, He tore a stripe off the guy, Called the MNR (guy pleaded with my dad to just let it spoil and not worry about it) . MNR showed up, We told them exactly what happened. Guy was charged, Forfeited his rifle and the moose. The MNR was really impressed that our gang would report one of our own but in reality he wasn't part of our gang, He was in a fill in guy that was told to pack his stuff up and never come back.
He has tried to come back to our camp deer hunting as he is a friend of our members but not going to happen. He obviously didn't care about playing the rules and I think he has done it before as well (but not with us)
The 2nd pole is common at a lot of camps.....for 'accidents' :)
(note; ref to other thread)
Great white, I'd hunt fish with you. I don't for one second regard someone needing to take game off their farm or private land to put food on their table for a hungry family as poaching. That's called survival.
Back in the old days before the Tom Pidge heads of the camo $ informercial hunt world men hunted solely for the purpose of putting food on the table, Big deer were harvested because they solely fed more people not because they had some silly head of horns and could help some company move crap product.
remember fold, branding is everything... And the ultimate goody good Tiger woods brand want quite as it seemed either.
One guy I hunt and fish with got charged with fishing withtwo rods.Someone who wasn’t fishing atthe time rod had the line in the water and a fish grabbed it.Well the rod was going in the water so hegrabbed the rod and gave it to the guy to reel in.Severalhours later on shore an MNR guy shows up asking questions looking at our catch,we never thought anything of it.Theylook at the licences and catch and see we were not from the area and fine theguy for fishing with two rods.One thingthat was said the MNR guy wouldn’t answer is if the rod went over would theother guy be fined with littering? We figure he was fined because we were notfrom the area to come back and fight it.
Awesome question. I was actually going to ask a very similiar question. I know someone who lets a guy who works for an outdoors company( id love to give the company name but will probably get chirped at) who hunts coyote at night under spot lights over a bait pile. The homeowner has like 6 chickens who get ate every year and she thinks its fine. Who would make a call to a co ?????
Ya.. I would hunt with one.. However.. Any illegal activity on a hunt with me.will end that hunt/trip and, I would never hunt with them again. I believe everyone deserves a chance.
Well poachers are not necessarily bad shots and often know the game being hunted very well . Just won't put up with it while they are hunting with me .
TD
We all know of someone that has " poached" at one time or another. Went out duck or goose hunting when they had their possession limit in the freezer or their fish limit from the morning out but they were biting so good they went out again that evening. My problem is the people that hunt or fish and take more than they can possibly consume and it goes to waste. If your out of work and the bills need to be paid and money is tight and there are plenty of ways to feed your family good meals of wild game then there is no question what I would do. So to answer if I would hunt with someone I know that has or is a poacher, I guess it boils down to why they poached?
Gp4 brought up a good point about the guy shooting under lights. To some it is poaching but to others it is just a way to protect their flock. I know one guy who regularly shoots game using tags that belong to his wife, sons, etc but most of the time he gives the meat to local families who don't have any.
I also heard of a crew who had filled their tags early in the week and then went out at night to jack light. This was a first time activity for them and they got nailed, losing all their gear. Looked good on them.
i also know one old guy who normally uses two lines whenever he can. He still can't catch more than the odd fish, even with both rods......I fish with him just for the comedy factor, even if he is technically a poacher.
The original post seems odd to me. The question is like asking, "Would you ever deliberately gut-shoot a moose? Would you ever get hammered and drive?"
Interesting question. Should include "who checks the checker for poaching"
It appears poaching is not black and white ... recently in the U.S. a man was found with 1600 trout in his possession when his limit was 10 ... now THAT is a poacher ... when I was young there was a local man who used to shoot deer on his farm because "he did not like them there", he let them rot where they dropped (he is now dead, that is fine with me) ... now THAT is a poacher ... in each of these cases it is killing for the sake of killing and there will be significant waste as a result. This is the "amoral poacher"
I guess the question is, "is there such a thing as a 'moral poacher'?" One who has an extra one of these or an extra one of those , where all will be used and not be wasted ... laws in one place and you are a poacher, but cross a border and you are not ... where does the morality lie there (apparently at one time in California, if you set a mouse trap without a trappers license, then you were in violation of the law) ... I guess we all have our own morals and it will be decided on an individual basis who to be friends with, fish with and hunt with.
I think the original post was talking about poaching for the sole purpose of promoting a product ... Money, money, money ... it is what all is becomming based on ... financial gain trumps all in todays world (I could go on forever on the rigging of pro sports for the best ratings and financial gain) and this is no different ... the important people with lots of $$$ will get away with more than us nobody's ... it would be nice if the arrogant celebrity would be treated the same as we would be if caught.
I fish with a notorious poacher, an older guy who was doing it all his life. He's been charged a number of times, as has his family with hunting/fishing offences but I still fish with him and bird hunt with him in the fall. Its been a chore getting him to do things right but now he bends over backwards to make sure he's legit. As a person he's a class act and will do anything for anybody.
On the other hand I had a friend that I grew up with. For 40 years we were inseparable when it came to hunting and fishing but in the last few years, after I retired he began to push things--extra lines, extra fish, that sort of thing, playing the tag game. I now don't go near him.
I hunt with a couple poachers. The ones I hunt with are amazingly skilled hunters; I don't let them poach with me and I don't listen to them brag about poaching (because most of them really seem to love talking about it) - but they do have some amazing skills and passion for hunting- I've actually learned some new things from those people.
It's kind of a loaded question. Are you talking about someone that totally disregards the rules and regs while hunting (ie hunting/fishing during closed seasons, no license, etc.) or someone that may be one grouse over their limit? Would you ride with someone that does 115 km/hr in a 100 km/hr zone? Would you ride with someone that is always impaired? Even though both are illegal, there is a big difference IMHO.
There's different types/degrees of poaching. Poaching to me is doing something intentional. Taking overlimits, fishing/hunting out of season, swapping tags, etc.
Then, for example you have the guys coming out from a duck pond after dark unencased. There is no intent to take more ducks or drop an animal after dark(night hunt). Or the guy who legitimately forgets his licence on the kitchen table but heads out anyway.
Don't label a guy who makes a mistake a poacher.
Delmer, I'd consider a guy who takes one grouse over, or one laker over to be a poacher. If given the chance would that same guy take 2 over or 3 over? His actions are intentional when the opportunities are presented.
Over the years I spent in law enforcement,I met lots of poachers. Some were in it commercially that I helped nail their testicles to the wall every chance I got. Honestly,even though I haven't been in law enforcement for quite a long time and I'm now retired,I'd do it again,in a heart beat. I didn't feel the least bit sorry,either. Human compassion has it's limits. Other's I met,were family guys out of work,backs to the wall,families to feed (I mean like scratchin' dollars for groceries and the wolf was at the door) so,they'd jack light Deer or take more than their limit of fish. We knew who they were and why they did what they did. Blind eyes were turned,all the time. We also knew who the "players" were and who weren't. This is the one reason I always advise to never judge too harshly. Things are never "black and white".
trimmer seems to have the idea.
personally, i hate to hunt or fish (or do anything) with someone who is hellbent on making sure every "I" is dotted and "t" is crossed. but then again, i can't stand jerks who know what they are doing is wrong and continually do it. a bass falling into the fry pan during a icefish is one thing, shooting a deer in the spring or even tresspassing... not so much.
[QUOTE= Other's I met,were family guys out of work,backs to the wall,families to feed (I mean like scratchin' dollars for groceries and the wolf was at the door) so,they'd jack light Deer or take more than their limit of fish. We knew who they were and why they did what they did. Things are never "black and white".[/QUOTE]
And this of course is the other consideration in determining whether the individual is worth hunting/fishing with.
by reading the posts I would suggest you define poaching before asking this question
Never judge a book by its cover, or unless you've walked in their shoes. Good response Trimmer.
Most of us, have done something in our lives. Am I the same person I was 10 or 20 years ago? Would I hunt with someone that poached a WT on private property last year? Same guy, but it was 5-10 years ago, and he took responsibilty, and hasn't crosses the line since.
The Devil is always in the details.
That wasn't the best example I could give, was it. I was trying to make the point that even though the law may be broken, there are extremes between infractions. Your example of forgetting your license would have been a better choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by sawbill
My grandmother was a self admitted poacher and single mom. She never had a license but she had her own set of rules. If there was a deer in her yard and less than half a deer in her freezer and she could take the shot from her porch then she took it. She also required that everyone else was either in the house or away in town. I asked her once if she ever missed. With a big grin she responded " just once"
She stopped in her eighties when she lived alone and her eyesight started failing.
That about sums it up. And that situation is more common than many people think. I knew an old CO in the Ottawa Valley that used that philosophy and he was respected for his discretion. When I was much younger, things were always "Black and White".Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
Some the the best times in my life have been sitting around at the hunt camp laughing, telling stories and drinking with a bunch of guys, who over 35 yrs as a camp, have all been a poacher (by definition) at one time or the other. Most of the best stories are around the situations that caused the infraction :)
None of the 'crimes' were done intentionally and in the grander scheme of things...no harm no foul.
So to answer the OP's question YES !
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-zMiJ3bVnxk...himpanzees.jpg
Thanks, that's what I was trying to say but couldn't find the right worlds. If I wasn't hunting with few time poachers, I would have no one to hunt with.....Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
I would never hunt with anyone who I knew was going to break the law (hunting over a baited area for example). And I have no desire to hunt with any legend in their own mind TV personalities either for that matter.
My best friend of 29 years is a poacher, raised by a family of subsistence poachers.
They're great, down to earth people. But the dad became disabled in his 40s, the mom only ever had part time bus driving and para-med jobs and with 4 boys to feed... they did what they had to do.
As a result, my friend just looks at hunting whatever, whenever he needs to fill a freezer as totally acceptable.
I often invite him for a legal turkey hunt... but he always immediately makes a joke "What, there's a season for them?!" and that's as far as the invite goes. It sucks, I'd love to share a good hunt with my best friend... but I'm not interested in potentially risking my own licence as an accomplice to something foolish he may do.
If it was my own blood family poaching I wouldn't be hunting with them... I probably wouldn't report them though
Boils down to ethics.
Very few of us can say we'd starve if we didn't get a deer, grouse, duck...etc. There are a few out there who would.
For me, it's about the activity, less about the spoils, which means I can afford a licence, I can also make time during the legal season to go out. I set the example for my son, including the safe handling of guns, observing the laws of the land, etc. No one wants to spend their time looking over their shoulder because of past mis-deeds.
An older fellow who is now retired took me through my apprenticeships, and spent a bit of time "bending" the rules while hunting. He also took me hunting when I first stared out, and knew off the bat that I don't, nor would I ever go out with him if he did while I was there. We get along just fine.....and I enjoy my hunts on his properties because at least while I'm there, we're both legal.
Long time ago I hunted with a friend. We were both in the military at the time and his family was from a very rural area near Pugwash NS. There we no roads and the area was simply a collection of people the were dirt poor like you have never seen. Hunting my first two deer with him was 'bending' the rules at the time but I took the moral high ground since all that meat went in the freezer for his dad and the kids.
I think we all try to stay on the right side of the rules but I would say that there are times when we need to remember 'let he who has not sinned cast the first stone."
How easy is it when you are well north on a good morning with a full moon to forget to check the time. I have another friend that is upset to this day that he shot a deer about 1/2 before legal start time in that exact scenario.
We tend to have a connotation of the word 'poacher' as evil people that go out and blatantly break the rules. Fair to say they are a very small minority and I think we all would avoid those situations. Lets be clear, asking would you go hunting with a poacher is analogous to asking would you break the law, but there are grey areas IMO since we all like to think we are law abiding despite the fact we speed, run stop signs in remote areas and otherwise shave the edge of it.
Define poaching. Easy in regards to others. Tougher in regards to yourself.
That's a law that could be adjusted for the time of year but probably would make things too confusing. "1/2 hour before sunrise and 1/2 hour after sunset" just makes it easy to enforce. In reality, it's pretty hard to see on the outside edges of that 1/2 hour in early October when the sun rises and sets on a steeper angle. On the other hand, in late December you can see quite well outside that half hour when the angle of the sunrise/set makes for a longer dawn and dusk, even without snow on the ground. Latitude makes a difference as well, as you mentioned in your post.Quote:
Originally Posted by DGearyFTE