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Do we need an early Primitive Muzzleloader Season in Ontario? This would be restricted to actual flintlock or percussion firearms.
It would seem to me that this would make for more opportunities for Ontario hunters and deal with some of the over population of deer issues in MWU which for safety reasons cannot consider a rifle season.
What are your thoughts?
yes second week of October for us southern guys Dutch
There is already a season for that in many areas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by C Broad Arrow
There are only few hunters that even take part on the present Muzzleloader season....and that already includes both primitive and in-lines. I can't see any benifit to driving a wedge between them and having a separate one for the 'primitives'.
Nothing says you can't use a muzzleloader in a shotgun only WMU.
Agree with your thoughts on that - it's already a pretty small group.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
I use my flintlock in Southern On during the controlled hunt.
What I would like to see is flintlocks be allowed during the archery season.
HA
I'd like to see a general muzzle loading season in all WMU's. In our area I think only WMU 59 has a black powder season.
As an archery hunter I would be totally against this ...Quote:
Originally Posted by huntaway
This archery guy would be ok with flinters in archery season.Quote:
Originally Posted by crayfish
Why against it??
Quote:
Originally Posted by crayfish
Don't know many that archery hunt that would welcome a gun in the woods with them, being that we are dressed head to toe in camouflage, safety factor mainly... Had a guy walking through the bush last season.... Shooting at squirrels in the trees, well I was in a tree stand.... Not exactly the same scenario but I was scared non the less...
Even with a ML season, you would still have that situation. are you suggesting a ML only season and nobody can use a gun even for small game???
Quote:
Originally Posted by crayfish
I think we have enough seasons for deer, maybe a little more streamlining to avoid confusion would be better. We already get numerous threads with people who are confused by the current deer regs, now lets add in even another season:)
Whenever there is an open gun season for deer or moose every hunter unless hunting waterfowl needs to have hunter orange on, including archery hunters.Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
Small game hunters do not require hunter orange when there is not an open gun season for deer or moose, but it is probably a good idea if hunting with a group.
There is always a chance of getting shot in the bush, but there is always a chance of being hit in the head by a meteor too.
I would not like to see flint lock considered in archery hunting seasons because with the limited sight distances where I hunt I would prefer that hunter orange be used during gun hunts, due to this it would force all archer hunters hunting with the combination flint lock / archery season to wear hunter orange for safety which may hurt the archery hunt.
There are gun hunts, there are muzzle loader hunter, there are shotgun hunts, there are archery hunts and there are combination firearm hunts, why not leave it this way.
You can hunt deer in most of the province for 3 full months without even a single day off, we have tons of options.
If we have too many deer bring in extra tags if need be.
When the ML season is on, archery is closed in my area.Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
With the brutal winter our deer herd just lived through I can't see the MNR looking to increase hunting pressure for a couple seasons. If they are cutting doe tags I can't see adding more days regardless of weapon used.
What they should do is open the opportunity with the November & December hunts. Not just get to pick one or the other. Let us hunt both. Work, health, family, weather, problems lead to unsuccessful hunts. So if you can't make it for the Nov hunt you still have Dec for backup. That way archery season isn't affected but gun hunters still get more opportunities!
Yep, good point. Right now if you apply to a November controlled hunt you can't do the December one which seems ridiculous to me.
I am all for a 5 day late season primitive muzzleloader season starting Boxing Day and going to New Years.
I would also like to see archery with crossbows closed mid December or earlier and not open until mid October.
Why would you want to restrict a season for a large group of hunters to accomodate a much smaller one?Quote:
Originally Posted by Monster29/66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monster29/66
Yea...why would you want to shorten ANY hunting season ?Quote:
Originally Posted by skeeter1
I figure the deer population is under enough harvesting pressure, that to gain an additional opportunity others need taken away. I personally believe late season bow hunting is the most effective given the need of the deer to feed and be close to the food source not permitting a Xbow for this brand of hunting and making the archer draw on late season pressured deer limits opportunities.
theres no restriction on any hunter, to not use any weapon available in any season other than self imposed restrictions. If you've got a doctors note for a medical issue. No problem, if you choose to use a Xbow for ease, I believe the season should be over.
now before the tissues come out, this is my opinion while you might not share it that's fine with me because I don't have to agree with yours.
long story short, love to see a late season ball and patch hunt I've used mine many times in the shot gun and mz hunt and know of some states that have a late esson hunt. They are really cool guns except when they don't fire !!!
the idea of the controlled hunt is to control the number of hunters in the bush well still taking as many deer as possible .having a gun hunt with primitive tools the second week of October .would give guys that do not bow hunt a chance at a early season hunt .why should bow hunters be the only ones allowed to hunt early in the fall .right now gun hunters must wait till the first week of November to get out and hunt this makes a real long wait thru summer and fall .bow hunters still can hunt the first week of October then have a week of primitive tools just to get more guys out and hopefully harvest more deer .this is more for the southern ont area that is in the controlled hunt areas .I think this could work for all involved DUTCH
We already have a muzzle loader hunt so maybe you can suggest one day, like the opening day for that hunt can be strictly primitive muzzle loader.
were we are in area 90 we have a shoot gun hunt that you may us a muzzle loader if you wish but no separate muzzle loader season .and the idea of a early gun season would be great DUTCH
I don't see the point for having a primitive ML season. With the idea of adding all these different seasons we would need one for traditional archers too.
Not to mention those of us that want to hunt with a spear....LOL....:)Quote:
Originally Posted by oaknut
And bring back pistol hunting
Last I checked deer didn't hide in tree tops.Quote:
Originally Posted by crayfish
Do like the bear. On the ground orange on. In a tree orange off. And bear see colour unlike deer.
Flintlocks are pretty limited in range as well. 50 yds is a long shot with them. I have shot them out to 100 but only off a very solid rest. Even then I was only capable of pie plate accuracy. My personal restriction is 50-75 yds with 50 being preferable and 75 off a good rest. As a hunting tool, a roundball runs out of steam pretty quickly which also reduces it's effective range.
HA
Quote:
Originally Posted by huntrfishr
Most area's that have a muzzle loader season do so because they do not allow centre fire rifles. The controlled hunts are like that but they also include shotguns. If I recall there is an early ML'er season way up North and West for moose. Westmeath area has a ML'er season for deer but they are few and far between.
HA
My area is bow only with no controlled hunt.. Would like to see them implement a muzzle loader hunt. I don't own one.. But I would buy one..
I don't get this, for the purposes of safety a gun is a gun is a gun, if it is an in-line muzzle loader or a flint lock it does not matter at all.
With a primitive season for a tiny little portion of the hunting population it does not make sense.
The idea behind the shotgun hunt was a reduced range firearm with less shots then rifle season, the muzzle loader is a similar situation. At this point the reduced range cannot even really be considered because sabot rounds in both are deadly well beyond any hunting range.
If you were to bring in a primitive season would you restrict it to iron sights only with flint lock and round ball? It just seems odd to me.
I would love to see rifles be allowed during controlled hunts with a limited magazine capacity (say 3 rounds like a shotgun) but only in pistol cartridges, bring back the 44-40, 45 LC and 44 Mag for deer hunting, maybe the 357 Mag as well, but I do not think that we should isolate this group from any other.
You can hunt with a flinter during the muzzle loader season, you can also use it during the general gun season. Depending on the area of southern Ontario that gives you 3 weeks to hunt with your flint lock.
I think Westmeath is in 59 which has a ML specific season in early Dec. There are actually quite few wmus that do. Bows are also allowed during ML seasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by huntaway
37, 60, 61, 62, 63A, 63B, 64A, 64B, 65, 66A, 67, 68A, 68B, 69B, 71, 72A, 73, 74A, 74B, 75
82A, 82B, 83A, 84
59 is unique in that it is the only wmu to allow dogs with MLs during a late season.
There are also a few wmus that have an early ML season (5,6,7,8,9,11,18 - maybe a few more).
There's already a designated M/L season for Deer in most southern WMU's,usually the first week of December,but,archery is included with it. Blaze orange is required,also,for every licensed hunter during that week,except for waterfowlers. This system is fair and seems to work well. There would be no justification to change it.
Well last I checked not all bow hunters sit in a tree.Quote:
Originally Posted by huntaway
I wouldn't change a thing in my WMU we hunt with bows early season, first week in Nov is a controlled shotgun/muzzeloader, we go back to bows until first week of Dec, hang them up for a week and go back for the late season.
As was said above it would only benefit a small %
Did not know flintlocks had a short range but still wouldn't welcome it during bow season
Agree with "not all bow hunters sit in a tree" - particularly in the late season cold weather where a ground blind keeps you out of the wind.Quote:
Originally Posted by crayfish
In all honesty, I could care less but if they were to implement a Primitive Firearm Season in my WMU, I would take advantage of it. As it is, I will use my flinter during the Controlled Hunt in Southern ON and during the second week of the regular gun season. That is if I haven't used my tag during the Archery Season. :scream::moose:
The arguement of there would be too few who would use it is probably what they said when they brought in Archery Seasons many moons ago. :silly:
HA
can you provide a link to that thread?Quote:
Originally Posted by huntaway
Even when they do. A guy on the ground shooting squirrels with a shotgun or .22 would give any camo'ed up hunter a reason to worry. In a tree or on the ground no one wants bullets or shot coming their way.Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
I did say probably. :thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by B Wilson
The bottom line is if they never create the season, no one will be hunting during it. You can use the "If you build it. They will come." euphemism.
If they are frightened of squirrel hunter's the same can be said of camofluaged bow hunters shooting towards the ground where the squirrel hunters are.
All good hunters are aware of their surroundings. Of their target and what is beyond. But the unexpected can happen. So l have the perfect solution. We'll carve out two weeks of the three month archery season for those who wish to pursue deer using their flinlocks.
HA
A bit off track but this concern re safety orange, fully camo dressed, bullets flying around in the woods sounds like we hunters are a bunch of clowns in the woods. I hunt in southern Ontario and the woods are full of farmers, nature walkers, pets or livestock any time of the year. Why should anyone have to worry about being shot?
:thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by tracker
HA
Um-m-m-m,don't think so. I can hear the yellin' and screamin',now.Quote:
Originally Posted by huntaway
I think most of the current ML seasons also allow bow hunting - so we shouldn't need to shut down bow during flintlock.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
If you really want this to work - get a flintlock manufacturer behind it. That's what pushed x-bow hunting to be allowed during bow seasons in many states - manufacturers pushing legislators.
There'd be a lot of flintlocks sold if you opened a oct 1-7 flintlock season.
Might be a bit hard on the deer though.
If we did get a primitive ML season, I think they'd have to make coonskin hats, buckskin jacket/pants and mocassins mandatory. That'll get the equipment manufacturers interested.
No it makes it sound like the guy shooting at the squirrel may not know there is a guy in a tree stand. No problem knowing where nature walkers are. Some of them are louder then a truck when they are walking around.Quote:
Originally Posted by tracker
As long as Archery stayed open and let's not forget that small game is open,also,you never know,it could grow legs if a company saw a healthy profit in it. Can you just imagine the cost of leather and coon skin? It would go through the roof.Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
X2....Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche