Just as many of us have said, no you shouldn't be doing this.
http://www.oodmag.com/fishing/qa-can...closed-season/
Printable View
Just as many of us have said, no you shouldn't be doing this.
http://www.oodmag.com/fishing/qa-can...closed-season/
Well there you have it.
Quote:
Q: Our twitter follower @JohnnyWieringa asks if he can take a photo of a fish that is accidentally caught out of season even if it’s released afterward?
A: No. Any fish that is caught when the season for that species of fish is closed must be immediately returned to the water. Keeping the fish out of the water to take a photograph, weigh or measure it is not necessary and may reduce the likelihood of survival for the fish. This long-standing rule applies whether the fish is caught during the closed season, is of a restricted size, or is caught by gear which is illegal for that species of fish.
Mark Robbins,
Provincial Enforcement Specialist,
Enforcement Branch, Ministry of Natural Resources - See more at: http://www.oodmag.com/fishing/qa-can....sBJagtmx.dpuf
Better watch those muskie pictures this year...
So, no pics of that big fish, that is over the slot size, even if that species is in season. That seems harsh. How do you know if it is in or out of the slot if you do not measure it?
They have to give the black and white answer so that people don't abuse the issue if they don't. I'll bet most officers will use a fair bit of discretion on this one.
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/i...SylO2Stb3e32QwYou use one of these.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
^^^Quote:
Originally Posted by redd foxx
This
We can take all the pictures we want as long as they're pictures of us releasing it. :rolleyes:;)
Can you get a smaller size of one of those , say for a 35cm. walleye? In the pic. one that large, would make it look tiny.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishfreek
So you can net a fish out of season? I thought the fastest way to release a fish was to cut the line!?Quote:
Originally Posted by fishfreek
People will find the smallest wee bones. :)
I had thought hopefully this debate was finally put to bed. There is absolutely no way the written, letter of the law can cover every single possible thing/situation/devil detail.
The MNR has stated their position, it means without delay. They even went so far as to say "any unnessary delay could cause unnecessary harm". When the written law says, fish we cannot legally posses (see possession written letter of the law) we must release without causing further harm.
If you catch a fish OOS, letter of the law says, no pics, no delay.
If you catch a fish thats in season, but you cannot legally posses, no pics/delay
If you catch a fish thats in season, but theres a slot and you need to measure it, to ascertain if you can legally posses it..Measure it, that is a "necessary" delay because its required by law.
Your wading into hot water if and when you land it, measure it, determine you cannot legally posses it, delay for a hero shot, release.
The key terms is anything that we cannot legally possess, we must release immediately, without delay.
If we unnecessarily delay for any reason, even pausing to answer a phone call, text a friend to say "Wow I just caught on 7pd LM" it's possible we are causing uneccessary harm.
Would/could I get charged if I have my 500mm lens on and I snap a shot from 600feet away of some guy landing an OOS Musky? I wouldn't but if I did....
Would/could I get charged holding a conservation license and I hook into a lunge? Well if I land it, delay for a hero shot, get a call from my X who starts in on me and I delay releasing it....I am in hot water.
Would/could I get charged if Im in a boat and the guy Im fishing with has a sport licence, lands a lunge, delays for a shot, and then releases?
Theres no law against taking pics, there are laws about what we can posses, and unnecessary delays.
Just wanted to come back to this momentarily.
/puts on photographer hat
As a "photographer" who takes pics of everything, not just outdoor lifestyles. There are only a few laws against me/anyone taking pics of anyone/anything. private property posted as no pics is one, nothing stopping me from standing 1 foot on the other side of the line and taking the same image. If I want to take an image of you, I can.
If I want to take an image of you in an embarrassing/compromising situation, I can. I can take pics of kids if I want. Just because I can, doesn't mean I do. When you have cameras in your hands, there are only a few things you can't take pictures of. There are laws about what you can do with images.
/Dons angler/hunter hat
there are dozens of grey areas in the various acts/regs. When I find myself in one of those areas I fall back on various underlying principles.
Respect our resources.
With respect to this specific topic. There's are (imo) still some greyish situations ( devil details). Do we really need to hash out every little one? :)
We now know the MNRs position. Unnessary delays can lead to unnessary harm.
respect our resources.
Am I really showing respect to that OOS 55inch lunge I hoist out of the water so my friend can get quick snap and I can have my hero shot?
Well put. It's all about making sure that the fish will not be harmed and will be available for future legal angling opportunities.Quote:
Originally Posted by JBen
Question:
Who causes more harm to the fish?
a) the angler with a sport licence who catches an in season 55 inch ski and pauses for a quick pic and a text book release.
b) the angler with a conservation licence who catches an in season 55 inch ski and pauses for a quick pic and a text book release.
Not sure what your point is - but you missed option c) - the angler with NO license catches an in season 55 inch ski and pauses for a quick pic and a text book release.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy
And the answer is they are all the same - but the province does require licenses for fishing and the angler must have the proper license, the fish must be in season (and slot size if applicable) for the angler to have the privilege of taking a trophy photo.
Werner, for the first time, I agree with you 100%.Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
To answer your question though; my point was to show that the law (the cons. vs sport) was not created to protect fish from undue harm.
Back to guiding principles.
The MNR is not our enemy, they have more than once with respect to similiar issues/topics said something along the lines of.
"we encourage people experience/enjoy our resources"
Honestly, we can find all kinds of "wee bones" just under the surface if we want. Heres just one
Rivers with C/R but no kill. Letter of the law says "you cannot possess" and "immediately".
and on and on and on she goes. :)
Fair chase and guiding principles and another oft debated topic.
Can my friend/child come hunting with me? We all know the MNR has said yes, so long as they dont aid in the hunt.
/ques a pages long debate looking for the fine hairs/wee bones (what ever we want to call them)trying to define what would/wouldnt be "aiding in the hunt" in a COs eyes.
We know the guiding principles.
We now know the MNRs position on this one.
This is way over analyzed. Those TV guys would be out of business by now if the picture thing was enforced, especially with muskie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBen
well we need something to squable over till hunting season comes around and people can start complaining about pics of deer where you cant see the tag ;)
At the end of the day, if a person holds that fish long enough to take a photo and is charged....the judge will decide who was right and who was wrong under the circumstances. May not (or may) go the way the LEO has indicated. Sometimes I think the judges are a little more lenient than the officers. I think the judge gets paid the big bucks to determine what is the intent of the law and what was the intent of the person charged for breaking the law. May be 2 different things with surprising outcomes. It all boils down to what is reasonable under the circumstances.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redd foxx
Werner I got your whole point lad . Some just got anal which when you reacted in defense sidetracked it .
Here is a Simcoe whitey and pic and release .. Is it a legal fish or oos pic . Before Jan 1st or after March 15th . ? Only one other one here was there but I was the guy who caught fish and took pic . With the new GO PRO'S much of the gets grey . Not even Jben with his big lens from shore can get this pic to help get a charge . LOL
No disrespect intended JB .
IT WAS NOT Jben took the pic or was there, and in reality this is a legal fish ,, but I caught many fishing perch .. ling on Simcoe using that system . But it's true story and no need to rip and start spouting regs when anybody posts a pic .
Well said and Jben said it too . It's a grey area but keep it conscionable . Err on the right in case you feel guilty . God may forgive you but the letter of the law and a million mile lens may not . Just keep it clean and fast .
Here is a Simcoe whitey and pic and release .. Is it a legal fish or oos pic . Before Jan 1st or after March 15th . ? Only one other ON here was there but I was the guy who caught fish and took pic . With the new GO PRO'S much of the gets grey . Not even Jben with his big lens from shore can get this pic to help get an MNR charge . LOLAttachment 25725
If its SNAGGED I would recommend you cut the line.Quote:
Originally Posted by seabast
Oh my, my whole post got snagged .. Ah well . No worries ,, . Some will hang you . some will shoot you .. some will rat you out doing due diligence of the law .. over a pic . .. The law has been stated ,, been shown and proven in how a CO can interpret it if he wants too . I argue the point but in reality the " SPIRIT " of the Law makes sense and should be followed .. Just like Werner post . Some fished him out .. His iniatial point was to back out of bass nesting areas . yeah yeah yeah . He brought so called bass boats into the debate and baits . So what ,,? Werner may be my nemesis at times but he's not just that dumb .,,, personally I PREFER TO BATTLE Werner than have to cuddle some of you kids / LOL
THE Difference is some of us are real and we speak from the heart and experience . Yes we battle , but in reality we don't need YOU .. Were willing to share , but some of you clowns bring the worst out in us . Putting all the old bulls in one pen with one prime heifer excites you ? Don't be clowns ,, .
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...ing2009034.jpg
Only one man on earth other than me knows . Question is . Is it legal or not to take a pic ?
I think there are some words of wisdom in there.....keep up the fight BB !!Quote:
Originally Posted by 400bigbear
Great posts BB and nice fish.
My thoughts on the 'no pics of OOS fish' guideline is that the MNR is trying to prevent people intentionally targeting OOS fish - although they always cite the reasoning as 'doing less harm' to fish. The MNR's rationale of 'doing less harm' to the fish really muddies the water - and if it was a valid reason, then photographing of *any* fish being released *should* also be illegal.
While I support the no 'pics of OOS fish' guideline, no pics for 'out of slot limit fish' doesn't make a lot of sense and seems a bit misguided. I catch one 19 inch pickerel (in season) and the second one is twice that size, but I'm only allowed one - so I'm not allowed to take a picture of the second, larger one???
While the MNR's guidelines for 'pics of OOS fish' are what I always understood them to be, the application of this guidelines to 'out of slot fish' seems a bit odd.
Every fishing show I have ever seen talk about the fish they caught while it is still in the boat , and then eventually release it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FishinScuba
Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
Both of you guys are bang on. Most fishing hosts talk for 5 minutes and then say "Let's go ahead and release this fish". They show the fish being put in the lake, then the camera pans away and they say "there she goes right down to the bottom".
A friend of mine does camera work for Dave Mercer. They just got back from a shoot. I asked how the walleye were biting. Not fishing for walleye, then I asked pike? No. Crappie? No. The answer was BASS!
I said PARDON? Turns out they were in Quebec and season was open.
Just looked at some pics on FB on Dave's page and he said he just caught over 200 smallmouth in 2 days. Yep he was stateside on Erie. There's always a season open somewhere depends on how far you want to travel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy
Sigh
regarding the last few post starting to bring up tv personalities. In another thread on the same topic, I tried to explain why pics of OOS are besides something I personally won't do, shouldn't be posted here............
And why hopefully this "season" is resolved moving forwards.
Guiding principles
letter of law
OOD (and it's forums) should do more than talk the walk. The mere perception of encouraging/condoning something that either clearly contravene's or might suggest.... Do as I say per se doesn't cut it.
we all know the letter of the law about tagging animals to. We all know there are millions of UN tagged bucks out there. We all know those to...
i mean just look at the pic of the RCMP passing off a rifle..............
I was told first hand they were at La Reserve Beauchene (last week of May). My buddy got eaten alive shooting a couple scenes from shore...LOL.Quote:
Originally Posted by chris1395
Anyways, good discussion everyone. In the spirit of the law, in Ontario, leave those damn smallies alone!
Paddy Out
I dislike most of the MNR interpretations of 'immediate' with regard to photos - in that most of these photos involve lawful, in-season activities. My objection to photos of OOS fish are that some anglers out there that see OOS fish (bass in particular) as a C&R opportunity.Quote:
Originally Posted by JBen
I don't disagree however if a fish is caught that can' legally be kept....out of season, snagged, slot, no catch limit on a conservation license or over the limit.....what is the difference? It all boils down to common sense on the fisherperson's and LEO's behalf. (in my view!!)tQuote:
While the MNR's guidelines for 'pics of OOS fish' are what I always understood them to be, the application of this guidelines to 'out of slot fish' seems a bit odd.
I don't disagree however people who want to treat the issue as "black and white" can't have it both ways. If a person catches a fish that keeping it would be illegal and it must be thrown back immediately, should be treated equally no matter what...closed season, over limit, snagged, slot, etc.Quote:
While the MNR's guidelines for 'pics of OOS fish' are what I always understood them to be, the application of this guidelines to 'out of slot fish' seems a bit odd.
I think the law should be interpreted from a more grey point of view myself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redd foxx
I personally do not agree with that idea , grey areas leave too many openings for misinterpretation which can lead to all sorts of problems .
A law as set out is just that , it's either legal or it isn't.
Slot fish argument, other person shooting argument. Simple answer don't kill or overly handle OOS fish. Nuff said. This should automatically apply to ANY fish planed to be released. FYI pike and musky peeps, no verticals or gill plate scale positioning: hook the scale on the net and subtract the net weight. This shouldn't be a brain buster boys and girls IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by JMatthews
Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
I agree, some anglers target bass during nesting. They are easy pickings and so are the eggs and fry when the bass is pulled off the nest.
[QUOTE=JBen;798224]Back to guiding principles.
Fair chase and guiding principles and another oft debated topic.
Can my friend/child come hunting with me? We all know the MNR has said yes, so long as they dont aid in the hunt.
Are you saying a non-hunting person can follow on a hunt? Like sit in your stand and such just as long as they don't assist?
Not jacking the thread but I'd love to know this one now that you mention it.
Thanks!
.Quote:
Quote:
FYI pike and musky peeps, no verticals or gill plate scale positioning: hook the scale on the net and subtract the net weight
I don't disagree with you on this but what's the difference between keeping a fish out to weigh, or measure it or to take a photo prior to being released. Bottom line is there is no difference. I don't see the big deal. Let's see the LEO use their discretion on this issue.
Grubz, yes anyone can accompany you, so long as they don't aid in the hunt. They can watch, observe, take pictures, etc.
lots of debates though trying to define, what a CO would define as "aiding". :)
Thanks JBen!Quote:
Originally Posted by JBen
Some of the less obvious no-no's in aiding a hunter you should not be doing without a license:Quote:
Originally Posted by JBen
- calling
- chasing (deer)
- recovering wounded game (I expect to see some sort of change in the future allowing a non-hunter with a dog on a leash trailing wounded game to be exempt).
Observing and photographing are okay though.
There is no question you should be allowed to take a picture of any fish at anytime... as long as it is taken in the boat and not in your kitchen.... Not everyone takes pics of fish for their facebook page or to show their friends how good a fisherman they think they are... they do it for themselves and for memories of fishing trips they took...
Some of the posts i read on here in my opinion are ridiculous... fishing is a "sport" and rules have to be followed in order to preserve species populations... but you word for word reg followers have to implement the common sense factor in the equation and remember its not all about tournaments and trophys for everyone... people are out just for the fun of it too and just to relax... if you catch one bass in your life... you should have a pic to remember no matter if your ice fishing or fishing in July... If your son or daughter catches their first bass on Scugog tomorrow even though your fishing for Pickerel... i have a hard time believing you dont let them hold it and just toss it back in...
Quote:
Originally Posted by I_cant_fish
The problem is that this leads to targeting of OOS fish. Lots of people catch and release, which can be fine, but at the same time it does cause trauma to the fish. This is why you cannot catch, take a picture and release outside of the fishing seasons, it has everything to do with people targeting fish out of season.
Agree 100% - C&R open all year. Maybe not a bad idea - but for some species which guard there nests & young, it could have a significant effect on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
I hope people remember there are two issues at play.
1) the legalities, guiding principles. What we do as private citizens, too each his own. Want to commit suicide? In my books knock yourself out, dont take anyone with you. Want to cheat a few tax rules? Knock yourself out. Want to do 130km, in a 100kph zone, knock yourself out....Want to delay releasing fish...Too each his own, the MNR has made their position known.
2) Post any such pics here?
Thomas Pigeon
Henry and Italo.
The guy who is in hot water now, because from pics it appears he might have subsituted a rack from one buck and mounted it to another
The list is long.
How would people, (those reading these different threads) react if, an OOS trophy ended up on the cover of OOD, OC, WS, Field and Stream, Wester or Eastern Fly, Fly Fusion, Greys, and many, many more. If I recall correctly Field and Stream was tarred and feathered for using a pic, of some stuffed (mounted) Coyotes surrounding a guy with a gun. The forums are an extension......
Just last winter someone posted pics of hard water Lakers he said were from haliburton. Then a couple sharp eyes recognised it as Lake Simcoe. The flames..........