Hi guys, was just looking for some input on the above as I want to by a good overall rifle were I can shot both moose & deer 100-4/500+ yards with ease and knocking power. It will be my first time moose hunting and I prefer a rifle I can possibly use down the road for deer as well
Any info. will be appreciated...
Thx
You will hear quite a few options suggested on this site.
I think your main 2 to consider first are .270 and .308. Both fantastic, versatile calibers that won't let you down.
If you seriously want to get out to 500 yards then you are probably best with the .270 unless you get into loading your own ammo and then .308 will get out there also.
Sako is a fine, top end firearm. Wish I had one.
If you can only buy one rifle and it needs to do everything from varmint/predator to Moose,you're better to go with .270Win. There's a much wider choice of bullet weights and types for each different application.
I use a 300 win mag on all big game and I feel confident at those ranges although the opportunity rarely presents itself to shoot that far.
.308 or a .30-06 are both great all around calibres for moose and deer. If shots being in the 500+ yard range are a reality, the above calibres are capable but you might want to lean more towards a .300 Win mag for the extra horsepower. As already said, you're sure to get a bunch of opinions on this.
I will be in the market soon myself, I'm going for a 7mm mag.
Moose are large critters and although not particularly hard to kill, they take some time to expire as their nervous system doesn't always seem to know they are dead. 4 - 500 yards is quite a ways out there and whatever calibre you choose, make sure you are competent shooting at that distance. I personally use a .300 WSM for moose as we hunt clear cuts and a .308 W for deer. I could probably get a 30-06 and use it for everything but what's the fun in that? Cheers B525
30-06 will cover both here in ON. Many weight, and bullet types available at any store that carries ammo. 100, 200, 300yds, never thought of anything further here in ON. 400, 500yds do you plan on going out west? Then I would consider something else.
Another vote for the 270 win.
30-06 I think the heavier bullets make it a better choice for moose than the 270 but I also like the 270. 500 yards is prob pushing it with either through the shoulder of a big bull like others have said you might want to consider 300 win mag
30-06 has killed every game animal in Ontario for the last 100 years.
Many many options. All of those listed above are perfect rounds.
30.06 is a tried and tested round and will kill anything in North America (at many distances).
308 is a great round too, but I feel it lacks for long-range moose. Well I worry about it a bit. I still take a 308 to hunt camp with me and some days I grab that over the 30.06. Can't beat hunting with an m1a!!!
7mm mag is a great solid round with good ballistics. The 300 win mag will knock anything down at range. It is more $$ per round I found, that's why I sold mine.
The 270 is a great deer cartridge and the ballistics are very favourable. But I prefer a 30cal hole in big game, I wouldn't take it moose hunting, but I sure more than a few moose have been killed with it...personal preference I guess.
Really its it's up to you! Do you want one gun to do it all ? Or multiple?
Good luck.
30 aut 6. Best round out there. From what I understand it has the widest range of grains you can shoot.
Just bought an A7 in .308 myself for deer hunting. I have a .300 win mag for moose
If it was a one gun do all thing, 30/06 would get the nod.
Shot a yearling doe with my .300winmag before at 100 yards on the run, got front shoulder....... Not a pretty sight
I like my 270..,ammo is cheapish.. Available.. And you can get 100gr. -150gr
another vote for 30.06 here, perfect all around rifle... now if i was thinking of shooting moose over 500 yds i think i would as others said, step up to a .300 winmag, or a 7mm mag. but shooting what your comfortable shooting is a big consideration as well... a well placed shot from a lighter calibre will do better than a bad shot from a heavy calibre because you deleloped a flinch from the kick...
Im also going to put a vote in for good ol' reliable 30-06. Many freezers have been filled with this round.
I am amazed at all the ought six replies. Don't get it myself, given a choice between a .308 and an 30-06 the .308 always gets the nod. I don't see where gaining 100-150 fps is worth the added recoil, heavier firearm, shorter barrel life (not that it matters for hunting purposes) and longer bolt pull. The only benefit to the ought six is there are a few more bullet weights available. For me it does not matter though, I'd be feeding it 180grn for whatever the sights are on.
just a personal prefernce here, nothing agaisnt the .308... i dont mind the little extra recoil, just always bin a .06 fan, always will... at 500 yds with 180 G remington corlokt the differnce between .308 and 30.06 is only around a 100 ft-lbs difference and the .308 has a extra 5 inches of dropQuote:
Originally Posted by oaknut
300 or 30 06. 300 win would my preference but not everyone likes recoil. But I have a heavier gun and also have a 6.5 for smaller stuff
308, or 6.5 x 55. Both will do the trick!
Quote:
Originally Posted by oaknut
Really you are right. Not much of a difference, One guy in our camp uses an old Rem 740 .308. He shot bull and twin calves 3 years ago and cow and bull the next year. All one shot kills.
My doggin gun is a 742 .308 carbine for deer and moose. Use a Tikka .300winmag for moose and The Sako A7 .308 for deer.
we have shot lots of moose over the years..the farthest one was probably 100 yds...
I personally have shot moose and deer with my 30-06..and 270...but weight wise I perfer the 270 for carrying in the bush..
500+ yards is a big demand. I'd go .300 Win Mag or .338 Win Mag. I limit my shots to 300 yards due to my personal shooting limitations. The .280 Remington does everything I require; a .7mm-08, a .308 Win or .30-06 would be good too.
Thanks for all the replies gentlemen...so the 2nd part to this question. Has anyone shot at/killed a moose over the 400+ yard range, and what caliber were you using?
At that range, the chance of just wounding a moose increases too much , why take the risk of doing so .Quote:
Originally Posted by FISH-ON
Of the 30 plus moose I have killed , the longest shot I have ever taken was on or about 200 yards .
I'd recommend the .308, .270, or the 30-06. All are standard calibers, with decent bullets, and they will hit decently at those ranges.Quote:
Originally Posted by FISH-ON
Let's get into ranges for a second. There are a lot of very good shooters out there, but shooting effectively out past 300M becomes a different animal. Errors under 300 are compounded 2-4x out past that mark. If you want a rifle that gets out the the 4-500 range, that's one thing, most rifles will. It's not the rifle, but the shooter that makes it happen. I've been in this game for 20+ years, I even have some shooting trophies for my troubles, but I don't know if I'd be looking to take game out that far, unless I was hunting the open country out West.
My first moose I shot was 370+ yards. (We ranged it, Can't remember exact #)
A bull and two cows came running out into the large cut I was watching. They ran at least half the cut and I wasn't going to shoot unless they stopped completely and were broadside.
Well after making the loudest cow call I could the bull finally stopped and so did the two cows behind him. 300 winmag 180g, First shot made her wobbly and she started to move so I fired twice more. Turns out only the first shot connected, She was quartering away and got her threw liver, one lung and out the opposite front shoulder. I think it went 20 feet? I was laying prone on a large rock with the gun resting on a fallen log.
You can see the exit hole just below the gun. Tikka 300 win mag.
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...9111724-00.jpg
Need more than 1 gun ?
.300 win mag ABolt my clear cut gun
.308 BLR 200 yarder ? / deer gun
.260 rem mod 7 slight overlap with with 308 but a fun cartridge
.44 mag ruger semi 100 and under deer gun , love this little shooter
So I'd start with a 300 and build the collection.
Great shot Songdog
I like the odd balls so I would go with the 264 win mag or the 2506 .the latter may be a little small for moose but with a good shot both will put them down Dutch
30-06,308,270 and 30-30 if in thick brush and not shoot over 250 yards.
In southern ontario a .270 is more versatile because with light loads it can be used for small game. Small game has to be hunted with under .277 so the 270 pr 270wsm will do all
.300 short mag. very flat shooting. lethal to both animals at any range. I've had good success with hunting both deer and moose with them.. I use winchester ballistic silvertips.
With the utmost respect....if you are asking what calibre you should use, you shouldn't even be considering a shot at 4-500 yards.Quote:
Originally Posted by FISH-ON
A 4-500+ yard shot even for a very experienced shooter is one hell of a shot. The OP sounds like a new big game hunter and I am sure he does not yet realize the difficulty in a shot like that, hopefully this thread provides him with some good info.
Agree with you Brent. To the OP - if you are going with this - you should be looking at the fastest flattest shooting cartridge - with at least a 160 grain hunting bullet. Speed will lessen the effect of wind on your shot. Flat will lessen the need for accurate ranging - but at those ranges - you will need a range finder to get into the ball park with your holdover. Before you even think about a 500 yard shot, have a look at the trajectory and windage tables for those...and if they aren't available for a particular caliber at that range - well there's a reason for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by brent
FYI - most of the common calibers you'll be dealing with just under 2' of drop at 400 and just under 4' at 500. You can cut that by 1/3 by going to the heavy magnums. When you get into measuring drop in feet instead of inches - that's not something for beginners.
http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/...Ballistics.pdf
I would agree with you Skeeter on the 400 to 500 yards. That being said a lot of folks tend to think their quarry is a lot farther away than it actually is. I have seen this with several people over the years.I think a lot of these supposed 4-500 yard shots are likely 2-250 in reality.There are numerous choices that will do the job. 270 280 300 308 30-06.These are some of the more common or better known and easy to get ammo for all of them.As others have mentioned there are choices both smaller and larger. All that really matters is get what you are comfortable and confident with and make sure you zero it in as close as possible,ideally minimum of 4 inch groups or smaller even better at 100 yards. Over the years numerous people make the mistake of not shooting their guns from year to year or being happy hitting a large pie plate or similar target. To me that is not good enough or proper,but each to their own. Remember if your gun is off say 4 inches at 100 yards it will be off 12 inches at 300 and 20 inches at 500. Enough said,good luck and happy hunting.
If you are thinking of shooting at any range, you need to shoot a lot better than 4" at 100 yards. You better be a sub MOA shooter atleast if your thinking 500 yards at game.
kdp89 obviously missed the point i was trying to make!!!!! And i will respectfully disagree with him on the 4 inch group not being acceptable at any range. A 4 inch group at a 100 yards will harvest any and all deer and moose any one of us will ever shoot at at that 100 yard range. I simply stated 4 inches as a rough minimum goal to try to achieve.A lot of people would be quite happy to do that consistently at a 100 yards. I suspect i will get more flack for my thoughts on this but factor in age, old guns,open sights,lack of experience and i think a lot of people would agree a 4 inch group average would not be that far off in most hunting gangs or camps.If you know your gun and your own capabilities and can feel confident on a 50 yd, 100 yd ,250 yd or whatever the yardage is then you either make the shot or pass on it. Stay within your realms and do not tempt yourself in to "hail marys". I have heard different folks tell me they can shoot deer at 100 yd with buck shot, 150 yd with slugs, and 2-250 yd with muzzle loaders. While all of this might happen occasionally, I personally doubt it happens with any regularity and in most cases should not even be tried, imo. Now back to kdp89,if you want to talk sub m.o.a. I shoot dimes with my 17 rem. at 100 yd and have shot numerous coyotes out to 400 yd and as i said in my earlier post 4 in off at 100 yd becomes 16 in at 400 yd. Bottom line, the point i was trying to make was know your gun your capabilities,zero to the best of your ability and stay within those parameters. And to reiterate the point fyi most shots are actually closer than most people think, imo.
bushman - I think you misunderstood kdp89's post. He was making reference to 500 yard shots on game - in which case he is 100% right - you need to be a whole lot better than 4".
werner.reich. Maybe i did but i do not think so. He states you would have to be better than 4 in. group to shoot at any range,with that i disagree. Obviously the tightest group possible is the best and I agree 110% on 500 yd shots,for that matter even for shots half that far. How ever, would you agree or possibly even have witnessed 4 in groups by people and they are satisfied with that. As i said factor in age,older guns.open sights,experience or lack of it and i think you will find as many or more 4 in. groups as opposed to say 1-1/2 in. groups. A 4 in. group with slugs or open sighted rifles is plenty accurate at 100 yds. if that is the range most of your shots will be taken at. The right gun in the right hands with a good scope makes a 300 yd. shot on moose pretty much a given.I myself would not shoot at a moose at 500 yds.,too many things can go wrong and I have more respect than that for the animal. Not trying to turn this in to a pissing match but am curios as to how many other people have witnessed 4in. groups by say, open sighted rifles or shotgun with slugs or some one with poor eye sight or maybe a bit of a flinch.I have seen all of the above frequently over the years.
No argument over the 4" group being adequate for shorter (under 100 yards).Quote:
Originally Posted by bushman
Sorry bushman, I guess I wasn't clear. 4" is fine if your only shooting 100 yards. I was making my comment in reference to shooting 4-500 yards like Werner understood.
i can see where I was unclear. By "any range" I meant any substantial range. Such as 400 yards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
Yep,I agree completely. Long shots at 500M require tremendous knowledge and skill,not to mention very good equipment. My Rugers are set at 200M under carefully controlled conditions on a range. Would I still attempt a kill shot in the bush past that range,maybe,but,not likely because as someone already mentioned,there's too many variables.
A 4" group at 100 yards with a rifle at a range of a rest is a going to be a whole lot bigger at 100 yards in the field, freehand while your heart is pounding. If we take on the responsibility of hunting with a high power rifle for big game we also have the responsiblity to be a good shot through practise. It has been my experience through communicating with others and from personal experience as well that there are too many out there that blow the dust off the old rifle and either don't try it out or just squeeze of a couple of rounds and are happy with that. One is too many in my eyes. I am taking from the OP that he wants a rifle that can perform as he wishes but not until after he has practised and has several years of experience before considering such extreme range shots.
kdp89- No problem and thank you. Misunderstandings happen frequently when you are texting or conversing on line instead of in person,happens all the time even with my wife and I LOL. And i agree with skeeter1 re 4 in. groups on the range becoming larger in the field. However a lot of people never go to a range,they check their guns off a tree or picnic table or over the hood of their vehicle,while not the best methods it is better than not checking them at all. If a 4 in. group is obtained with these methods it somewhat resembles shots in the field, ie,leaning off a tree,shooting sticks or a temporary rest of some sort. I know and have heard stories of people who can shoot very tight groups all day long at the range and miss a deer standing still at a 100 yds. I think its known as buck fever lol. It is very likely that most deer and moose,when averaged out overall are taken at ranges below a 100 yds.Of all the moose my friends and i have taken over the last 30 years 90-95% of them were less than a100 yds and none have been over 200 yds. To put 500 yds in perspective,think of shooting between 1/4 and a 1/3 of a mile.Now picture what a deer or moose would like standing there at that distance.
It would look the same as some of the ducks and geese that get shot at, at Luther Marsh LOL:):):)Quote:
Originally Posted by bushman
skeeter1-Never hunted LUTHER MARSH,skeeter but i assume you are saying the ducks and geese when being shot at likely resemble bumble bees and wasps,lol. Same as a deer at 500 yds resembles a dog and a moose at 500 yds resembles a deerQuote:
Originally Posted by skeeter1
308 180gr. in a Bolt - maybe XBolt or ABolt.
Ive never seen any animal too dead. I use a 300 win mag, and ive shot moose and bears with it. Never shot a deer but I know it would work just fine.
Dont be like most weekend warriors......SIGHT IN YOUR RIFLE!!!! and PRIOR to hunting! I hate listening to guys complain how they missed an animal and THEN went to sight there rifles after they went hunting...DUUHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
Know your rifle, and know your limitations. A 500 yard shot may not be out of the question, but then again, maybe it will.
Happy hunting.
Lol@500 yard shots.
I can never get enough entertainment with these comments and discussions by keyboard hunters. Most of you have no idea the time and skill required to execute an ethical 500yd shot. If you have never been to a 500yd range you definitely have no business shooting game at that distance. You need to be married to your rifle to even consider these shots - shoot it all year long, not just during the hunting season. Paper hunters are a dime a dozen, and Hail Marry shots are for the clinically insane. Stick to distances within YOUR skill....this means your FIELD experience.
Having said all that, purchase any rifle from 27 caliber to 30 caliber and you'll be fine for 99% of big game hunting areas in Ontario.
I agree with MickeyKnox. Even a 300 yard shot is long poke.
I really like the 300wsm for your project. Fast accurate flat
shooting and tons of power.
http://www.winchester.com/Products/r...s/default.aspx
Totally agree with you on that. I probably wouldn't shoot much past 100 - 150 yards. Stating that The last time I had to make a 100 yard shot was 25 years ago since then hunting near Ottawa my farthest has been 30 yards.
500 yard shot you really need to be a crack shot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MickeyKnox
See my earlier post. Most shooters have no idea just how far 500 yards is, nor are there many experienced enough shooters out there to actually shoot that range.Quote:
Originally Posted by MickeyKnox
kd89, kilocharlie and jaycee all said it first.
500 yard shots are absurd.
The “miss’ rate is extreme.
I’m guessing the “wounding” rate is extreme.
I’ve watched too many “hunters” on bench rests at the range that can barely hit anything at 200 yards.
It was Jack O’Connor who said the greatest shame was the marksmanship of the average American hunter.
Keep it under 100 yards.
Make it a hunt not a shoot.