Bill before Parliament to ban the use of e-collars

This will certainly interest quite a few folks....

On June 12, NDP MP Kennedy Stewart (Burnaby-Douglas) introduced Bill C-615, An Act to Amend the Criminal Code (Cruelty to Animals - Electric Shock Collars). This is a private members bill and stands very little chance of being enacted into law but the fact that it is now before Parliament ought to cause some concern....

LEGISinfo page for the bill at parl.gc.ca:
http://www.parl.gc.ca/LEGISInfo/Bill...billId=6661564

Full text of the bill:
http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublicati...6668908&File=4

The meat of the thing is to add the following to Section 445 of the Criminal Code, which governs causing unnecessary suffering to an animal, making anyone guilty of an offence who....
(f) uses an electric shock collar on a companion animal or, being the owner, permits an electric shock collar to be used on such an animal.

So I guess Electric fencing would be out as well. lol Don't these clowns have anything better to do.

I would not be too quick to say it will never pass. Look at Quebec, they have now been made illegal to use there, now a private member from BC brings forth a bill. It will get support from Quebec, and all the Liberals who are attempting to register firearms, they are of the similar mine set. Yes it may have a long road to having this passed but the fact is it has been presented as a bill is reason to be alarmed. Remember, we also have a marijuana supporting Liberal leader from Quebec, that lived in BC that will be making a pitch for prime minister. He has the bull ship to be elected by the same mentality of folks that elected Wynne.

I have reason to worry about my electric collars, firearms when we mention the word Trudeau.

Dick

This scares me. This is an easily misrepresented issue that will appeal to the general public and there is history to back it up internationally and in Canada. I can't remember the last time I had to correct my dog with the collar but he wears it everytime we go out mostly for the "on point" beeper function and location purposes.
Of course an idiot can abuse a dog with one but he can also do that with a stick or his boot. You can't legislate common sense or morality towards animals.

My dogs aren't companions there employees . They hunt & I give them room & board .

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Originally Posted by terrym

Of course an idiot can abuse a dog with one but he can also do that with a stick or his boot. You can't legislate common sense or morality towards animals.

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I have to apologize to you on this one, Terry, because I've pooh-poohed your warnings that this was just around the corner. You turned out to be right and I was wrong. Yes, you can save this post and remind me of it as often as you like. ;)

I'm quite surprised by this bill, as this is a non-issue as far as the public is concerned. And if we are to ban e-collars, what about citronella collars, prong collars, choke chains, head harnesses and so on? Some of these things can cause permanent injury if misused.

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Originally Posted by welsh

I have to apologize to you on this one, Terry, because I've pooh-poohed your warnings that this was just around the corner. You turned out to be right and I was wrong. Yes, you can save this post and remind me of it as often as you like. ;)

I'm quite surprised by this bill, as this is a non-issue as far as the public is concerned. And if we are to ban e-collars, what about citronella collars, prong collars, choke chains, head harnesses and so on? Some of these things can cause permanent injury if misused.

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Any number of things can cause injury if misused. If this bill passes, it's a problem as it will be a gateway to banning more things like the list suggested above. If used properly, they're useful training tools.

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Originally Posted by BurlyGirl

If used properly, they're useful training tools.

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This is the problem. Although there is no doubt that e-collars are often misused, banning them leaves us without a training tool that can be very useful in the right hands.

I've got a friend that uses invisible fencing around his yard to keep the dogs contained. When he installed it I asked if he'd tried it out on himself and he told me he wouldn't have put it on his dogs if he wouldn't put it on himself. Of course, when he said that I had to try it... It's not exactly what I'd refer to as a pleasant sensation, but not what I'd call painful either. And it lets his dogs have the run of his property without the worry of running off or getting hit by a car on the road. Seems like the opposite of cruel to me.

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Originally Posted by BDH

I would not be too quick to say it will never pass. Look at Quebec, they have now been made illegal to use there, now a private member from BC brings forth a bill. It will get support from Quebec, and all the Liberals who are attempting to register firearms, they are of the similar mine set. Yes it may have a long road to having this passed but the fact is it has been presented as a bill is reason to be alarmed. Remember, we also have a marijuana supporting Liberal leader from Quebec, that lived in BC that will be making a pitch for prime minister. He has the bull ship to be elected by the same mentality of folks that elected Wynne.

I have reason to worry about my electric collars, firearms when we mention the word Trudeau.

Dick

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I couldn't,t agree with you more,scary yes !
John

The problem that exists is very few companies that make these products or pet store such as Pet Smart that sell these products offer no training. I just purchased a training collar for my Springer that has been trained with a Dogtra 3500 NCP by a pro trainer. I searched to be trained myself on the correct method and found no training seminars. Forum members did give advice on the Huntsmith seminar coming up in August but the cost is $400 and collar training is part of the course. I would prefer to go to a collar training seminar only because her other training has been established. My point is companies that sell these products or stores should offer one on one training on the proper use rather than a manual or low budget video. The correct training would eliminate the stigma associated with electronic collars and prevent such bills being even brought forward.

This is bad news. More rules imposed by an ignorant government.

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Originally Posted by yellow dog

The problem that exists is very few companies that make these products or pet store such as Pet Smart that sell these products offer no training. I just purchased a training collar for my Springer that has been trained with a Dogtra 3500 NCP by a pro trainer. I searched to be trained myself on the correct method and found no training seminars. Forum members did give advice on the Huntsmith seminar coming up in August but the cost is $400 and collar training is part of the course. I would prefer to go to a collar training seminar only because her other training has been established. My point is companies that sell these products or stores should offer one on one training on the proper use rather than a manual or low budget video. The correct training would eliminate the stigma associated with electronic collars and prevent such bills being even brought forward.

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YD not trying to pick a fight but if you properly understand the training your dog has been through then using an e-collar to reinforce that training should be a non-issue. If you don't understand the training methods that have been used on your dog then an e-collar training class probably isn't going to be much help. A good trainer should and will assist their clients with the proper application of an e-collar when the dog is ready for it. An e-collar is not used for training it is used to reinforce training.


The Huntsmith seminar that is coming up is the foundation level and it is more about dog behaviour than anything else. If you had questions about e-collars and their proper application they would certainly be answered.

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Originally Posted by welsh

This is the problem. Although there is no doubt that e-collars are often misused, banning them leaves us without a training tool that can be very useful in the right hands.

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There is the kicker "in the right hands ", how many out there actually abuse the use of the e collar, I have heard and seen too many dogs squealing or yowling in pain because their so called "trainers" abused the use of the collar.

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Originally Posted by Jakezilla

This is bad news. More rules imposed by an ignorant government.





YD not trying to pick a fight but if you properly understand the training your dog has been through then using an e-collar to reinforce that training should be a non-issue. If you don't understand the training methods that have been used on your dog then an e-collar training class probably isn't going to be much help. A good trainer should and will assist their clients with the proper application of an e-collar when the dog is ready for it. An e-collar is not used for training it is used to reinforce training.


The Huntsmith seminar that is coming up is the foundation level and it is more about dog behaviour than anything else. If you had questions about e-collars and their proper application they would certainly be answered.

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My Springer Elly has been trained by one of the best and yes i fully understand the training she has been through with or without an e-collar. My mentor Bird Dog Hall of Famer Ben Martin trained me on how to use the e-collar with Elly's present level of training (11 months old ).If you read the post in its entirety the focus was the lack of available e-collar trainers for the general public when purchasing these products and the stigma associated. My Springer only needs the collar for one possible correction and the rest of the time she is fully in tune with me...not bad for 11 month old pup. I would like to have one on one training with a qualified Dogtra trainer if available to go through all other benefits of the collar if problems should arise. But for some reason I can't seem to find anyone that does this sort of training.

Instead of a ban maybe they should instead be mandatory apparel for all sitting members of parliament.

If one was going to truly legislate common sense among the populace , we'd have no members in "parliament," or very few.

Sadly, animal abuse is not tool related, it's a behavior.

You won't find anyone because there is no one. The e-collar use is specific to what has been done in the yard training. The collar is only a beneficial tool if the foundation has been laid in the yard so I am not sure what "other benefits" you are talking about. Training is not done with an e-collar, training is done in the yard and then reinforced with the collar.

An e-collar seminar or e-collar training without a foundation in yard work is putting the cart before the horse.

Then her training is done...awesome.

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Originally Posted by yellow dog

Then her training is done...awesome.

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If your trainer has showed you how to reinforce her training with the collar there is nothing more you need to know.

Yup that's all she needed was one possible correction everything else was really good.

Thank you

I can always switch over to my Gamin Astro but it isn't legal up here. The problem is when the dog goes on point the audible signal tone is very quiet and the ecollar buzzer on the Dogtra is fabulous for locating a dog on point in thick cover. I see this as another incremental nail in the coffin from the anti everything agenda people.

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Originally Posted by terrym

I can always switch over to my Gamin Astro but it isn't legal up here. The problem is when the dog goes on point the audible signal tone is very quiet and the ecollar buzzer on the Dogtra is fabulous for locating a dog on point in thick cover. I see this as another incremental nail in the coffin from the anti everything agenda people.

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The Dogtra is a excellent product and the buzzer for locating is great.

Instead of wasting your time debating it on hear.Write your MP to defeat the bill and support the use of training collars.

So sick of hearing of hearing the word "BAN"



Go ahead and ban it, I'll still use it


This is getting ridiculous with "banning"

I got a idea, we put a choke collar on him and give so good old yanks to the neck , continuously of course via a good heel session. Then we try some stimulation , not electrocution on him . Know he can decide.

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Originally Posted by jaycee

There is the kicker "in the right hands ", how many out there actually abuse the use of the e collar....

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Many ... we've seen posts on this forum that amount to misuse of the collar. (No names, no pack drill.) I recently read of one survey of collar users in which not one respondent had read the manual that came with the unit, or could articulate how to properly use it. In that kind of environment, e-collars become an easy target. But the same is probably true of choke chains, prong collars, and so on.

The problem for e-collar users is that the collar has come to symbolize heavy-handed, punishment-based training methods.

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Originally Posted by terrym

The problem is when the dog goes on point the audible signal tone is very quiet and the ecollar buzzer on the Dogtra is fabulous for locating a dog on point in thick cover.

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Yer gonna have to buy yerself one a them close-workin' flushing dogs, Terry.... :)

Can't see it going anywhere, but good waste of time Mr. Stewart

I'd hate to speculate whether this will pass or not. Given the political climate, it may gain some traction.

They are a useful training aid. I've used them in the past ( sparingly). And recommend them for anyone with a high energy dog with a few habits that are hard to break.

If this does go through, as it has in QC, there will likely be two results. 1. People will continue to buy them in the US, and use them up here. 2. Manufacturers will come up with a different kind of collar, that either uses frequency as a point of discomfort for the dog, or possibly a scent dispenser that you might load with a mild form of pepper spray.

It will be interesting to watch.....after I write my MP and give him my opinion.

What I know about hunting dog training could fit on the head of a pin. I know that hunting with them,though,is a marvel to behold. This will be one of those things that catches everyone in a broad net,much like firearms legislation. Going into an election year,no party will ever be the one to appear to go against animal abuse legislation as this is being presented. With an all-party fast-track agreement,this can be put into effect by a stroke of the Governor General's pen. This has more "legs" than you'd think.

I agree.
When a member of the general public sees my dog with the e collar on , I just say, " It is a locator collar. Hear this. ............It's an old dog and can get lost. ........." Well, it is a locator collar. :)

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Originally Posted by Bluebulldog

Manufacturers will come up with a different kind of collar, that either uses frequency as a point of discomfort for the dog, or possibly a scent dispenser that you might load with a mild form of pepper spray.

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Already exists. Citronella collars, touted as a humane alternative to the e-collar, spray a mist of citronella oil in front of the dog's nose. Opponents of e-collars have touted citronella collars as being both more humane and more effective than the evil e-collar, but the claim that they are more effective suggests that they are actually less humane -- dogs respond to them more quickly because they find them more offensive. More recently, some veterinary organizations have come out against citronella collars, saying they should never be used. A dog has a sensitive sniffer and spraying a pungent oil into it is not exactly friendly.

Citronella collars are a perfect example of the nonsense that follows when we apply human standards to other animals.

yep. worrying about my dogs electric fence... that's what the guys at parliament are for.
what a joke

Its a touchy subject at best. This is the first dog I've trained using an e-collar,( had other dogs just trained without an e-collar) and both my wife and I had to meet with the certified trainer (who sold us the e-collar) and go through a very informative training experience..... which consisted of us holding the collar as the trainer took it through the different levels of stimulation. It has/is a very effective training aid. Once after a training session my wife and I and our beloved Brittany Spaniel stopped in at a "pet expo" at the local arena. It was advertised as "bring your dogs, cats and pets" so we pay our admission ( the ladies remark how cute and well behaved our Britt is) and in we go.......first vendor no prob, 2nd, 3rd, 4th vendor, watched some agility races no problem....turn to go to the next vendor who was very friendly selling dog treats......suddenly asks what kind of collar is that? an e-collar? Yes, I say, and explained that we had just come from training....thank her for the treat she gave our Britt and turn to the next vendor......then BAM two expo/humane society volunteers stop us ask if that's an e-collar and DEMAND that we either remove it or leave......the attitude on these two was just wow! I chuckled and said who are you again? Humane society volunteers answered one, again demanding that I remove it or leave.....so i said its a free country went to the next vendor was followed/approached again so after laughing at them again we left with out taking the collar off. I just didn't want to listen to those two little wanna be's anymore.

Too bad you didn't have your certified trainers business card so they could call him/her and be educated.

There are tons of resources online and in videos/books on proper collar conditioning. Lardy and Graham both have excellent material on the subject

Maybe we could get the OFAH to lobby on behalf of hunting dog owners against this proposed law.

Is the CKC doing anything about this I wonder?

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Originally Posted by terrym

Is the CKC doing anything about this I wonder?

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Yes , the CKC are likely supporting the bill..

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Originally Posted by BDH

Yes , the CKC are likely supporting the bill..

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I bet you're probably correct. It seems many CKC events do not permit the use of e-collars, or at least the few events I looked at didn't.

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Originally Posted by BDH

Yes , the CKC are likely supporting the bill..

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I am on the Retriever Council for CKC. I can guarantee we will be asked for input. There is no question that we would not support this private members bill.

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

I bet you're probably correct. It seems many CKC events do not permit the use of e-collars, or at least the few events I looked at didn't.

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Not allowing the use of e collars for individual events is very different from not supporting their use as a training tool.

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Originally Posted by Cass

There are tons of resources online and in videos/books on proper collar conditioning. Lardy and Graham both have excellent material on the subject

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I find the one on one training works best for me... but yes tons of resources online.

http://www.niagarathisweek.com/news-...out-e-collars/

Well argued. I didn't realize the bill had been introduced in B.C. too, and its waiting on a second reading. I'm afraid we'll have to deal with it sooner or later.

The problem is that the limited amount of research on e-collars suggests that dogs trained using e-collars experience higher stress, etc. There are a number of problems with those studies (which all seem to come from the UK), but they have the ring of authority, and this makes it difficult to convince people.

If they saw my dog jump up and down with glee every time I take his collar off the hook and power it up they may have a different outlook on how it affects dogs. But that won't happen. When the present government get's asked to implement a ban it will be a done deal. I predict 6 months 12 months tops before they are banned. At that point I will be a law breaking felon.

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Originally Posted by rossh

My dogs aren't companions there employees . They hunt & I give them room & board .

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LOL, as long as they're not companion animals you're ok :)

Quebec....e- collars

The bill to prohibit e collars has changed. It does NOT make it illegal to use but recommended various options.

Final word....Not Illegal.