According to OOD there will be no additional tags for WMU 90-94 this year. I personally have seen about the same number of deer the last few years in 90, even on public land, but maybe my experience is not typical. TC
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According to OOD there will be no additional tags for WMU 90-94 this year. I personally have seen about the same number of deer the last few years in 90, even on public land, but maybe my experience is not typical. TC
I am in 93a and there is an abundance of deer... As far as I have read there is no real data that even supports the decision to cut all the tags in area, just a pen pusher saying we had a harsh winter kill... BS
I only buy one tag because that is all I need for venison, but I think they dropped the ball on this one. Insurance company's will be busy this year.
I canot believe it ether I hunt 90 as well and we got lots of deer ,Dutch
.....we did have a harsh winter.Quote:
Originally Posted by crayfish
not down here in the south 90 Dutch
It was a cold winter. But I said winter kill which I don't see , the deer are everywhere down here.Quote:
Originally Posted by blasted_saber
It's not entirely a bad idea to limit the harvest once in a while.
We all want to see abundant wildlife and one way to ensure that, is to give the population a break sometimes.
Most people buy a single tag anyway, and poachers buy none.
MNR is not always perfect but if we question their every move, then we just become another "special interest" group who want things 100% their way at all times! As for myself, I respect MNR's decision and hope that this will translate into having more deer for 2015.
Actually no additional archery doe tags for WMUs 89 to 95. 100% reduction
No additional controlled hunt doe tags either.
When I asked OFAH, they could not get an explanation from the OMNR.
Aylmer District Stakeholders are involved somehow.
The OMNR is not forthcoming with empirical data to back up their decision.
Deer yards saved the deer from the winter in my area. Coyotes are not much of a factor once deer yard up.
A herd of 60 to 100 deer will kick any yote packs . Only the very weakest will be vulnerable.
These wildlife management units were not the worst hit by last winter as far snow.
I'm confused on this one. I hunt the rifle hunt in November in WMU 46 and applied for a tag in that. I hunt the controlled hunt in December in WMU 90b. If I fill my tag up north in November does this mean I cant buy a tag for the controlled hunt? What about bow tags for 90b?
You can apply to both hunts, however since there aren't any additional tags available, you are one and done.Quote:
Originally Posted by huntitall
If you use your tag up north, the only way you can hunt 90b controlled hunt is if you hunt in a group that has tags available.
The reason the MNR are not forthcoming with their data, is that there is none. When questioned , the responsible biologist in Aylmer admitted that there was no data of winter mortality in the southwest, but that his desision was based on a lower harvest the last couple of seasons, and from information received from COs that they haven't been seeing lots of deer. He said the reduction was a "precautionary" measure. Well, those of us who actually were out in the field this past winter can attest to the fact that there was no winter mortality in the south. Deer were seen basically all over the place. Vehicle deer collisions are routine. With respect to the lower harvest, I suspect that is largely due to the amount of standing corn for the past few years. I know in our area, we didn't see as many deer until the fields were harvested. That was mostly after the controlled hunts. One landowner said he found acre plots of area in his fields that were trampled down by deer. He has never seen so much crop damage. It is interesting that they cut tags to zero down in the southwest, yet in the northwest where winter mortality was severe, thousands of excess doe tags were allowed.....go figure !
Actually to hunt in a controlled hunt, every hunter participating must have a validation of his own, even if that hunter has used his deer tag already.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ont_Excal
Your observations make sense to you and they sure sound logical to me as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
However, on a larger scale, if MNR limits tags in one area, hunters from that region may flood to the area that has tags available, and introduce added pressure to that region's deer population.
The Ministry never really try to explain their logic or reasons to us hunters, and I suspect they never will anyway. To me it really is no big deal to limit the number of tags for a season or two, be it on deer or any other game animal.
They increased possession limits on Canada geese last year so maybe they want us to shoot more geese! ;)
I don't disagree with you. The problem we all should have is the MNR methodology. To totally eliminate excess tags in an area where there was arguably no winter mortality, yet issue thousands of tags in areas known to have high mortality rates is in my opinion, definitely not based on sound science.
same goes for us bow hunting ,if we us are tag well bow hunting then the only way we can hunt are controlled hunt is to hunt with a group that someone else has a tag .thy should keep the bow tags totally independent from the gun hunts .kind of sucks for us guys that bow hunt and then go north for the November gun hunt then want to hunt at home for the controlled hunt .we need a new system in place in Ontario Dutch
Thanks for the correction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkman
To hunt in a controlled hunt one must still apply to the draw.
There has been and will continue to be standing corn in the controlled hunts, so overall, harvest rates in the long term should be a pretty good indicator as to population. Racoons trample a lot of corn as well and there are tons of those around, and another forum member who I bought a scope off found evidence of six winter deaths in an area where he was shed hunting and refreshing his lanes. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with either side as no one really knows and I would rather lean on the side of caution after a winter like that (and I am in the South). One thing I do know is I have been seeing far fewer fawns and yearling than I normally see, maybe the winter kill wasn't that high but maybe the birth rate has suffered due to poor available nutrition over the hard winter. It is much easier to be an armchair critic (and I am guilty of it too) then to be the one who has to make the call.
I can understand an adjustment in tag allocation if it made any sense.
What troubles me is that it looks like they painted WMUs 89 - 95 with the same brush.
I don't for second think that all these WMUs had the same kind of winter impact.
They all have differing crop mix and changes in topography. Some are more snow bound than others.
The area I hunt has a lot of no-till farming practices in use so crop residue is left on top of the soil and provides animals with easy access until the deep snows come.
Raccoons do more damage than deer to standing corn. Most time when the corn stalk in laying down it's because a raccoon climbed up and it's weight took the stalk down. A deer would eat standing up and have no need to knock down the stalk.
This year in the southwest there will be a lot less corn. Spring conditions dictated a huge planting of soybeans, at least according to AG Canada.
The only way to know harvest rates is for a compulsory survey for all hunters.
I believe if you applied in a group and someone has a tag you can still hunt.
I'm on the fence as far as winter mortality as I found more dead deer this spring than I ever have (Norfolk County). However on the flip side I have seen more deer this spring and summer than I ever have. Mind you I also saw a lot more coyotes and they may have an impact on fawn mortality. But I agree it is better to be precautionary than too blase and have to limit all tags. TC
Please please PLEASE read and understand the regulations before you make general comments such as this one! :scream:Quote:
Originally Posted by gunter
Dear fellow hunters, I have written these words many times before, but I will repeat another thousand times if necessary:
I have hunted every season since 1984 in Ontario and I still read the Hunting Regulations Summary every year to make sure that I understand what I am doing when it comes to applying for tags, being out there with a bow or a rifle or a shotgun during various seasons and in various WMUs.
Of course the "Summary" is not the complete set of rules and there are always question marks, but YOU all need to read the regs as much as possible and try to be CLEAR about what you are doing as well. :thumbup:
\Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkman
You should jsut copy and paste your responses...............................you'll be doing it forever:):)
Personally I think its a good thing especially if it only lasts for a season or two. I spend a lot of time in the woods and driving gravel roads scouting and hunting and I found more dead deer this spring then any other year by far. I'm in 92. The turkey numbers were about half of what they were last year and while turkey hunting I wasn't busted by a single deer all season and that never happens,ever. I'm not seeing many deer out in the fields right now at dusk either,even in places where I normally see lots. While I would never claim to be around the whole area affected by the tag cuts I do cover a large area. I found another one yesterday while cutting lanes for a treestand. We had deep ,hard snow for over six weeks in a row and below average temps for that same period last year here. It was a severe winter and we have coyotes to spare. Three gun seasons with additional tags wouldn't do the deer any good this year is my opinion in my area. If the tag cuts will get the deer numbers back to where they were three years ago then I think its a good idea. Sometimes the guys who complain the loudest about tag and limit cuts are the ones complaining the loudest when the cuts aren't made and they don't get any deer,fish or whatever on their outings.
Goose smasher
My only real issue is the timing. The MNR is going to do what they want anyway. I would have liked to have known a couple months back, as this would have changed my applying for a doe tag up north.
Its different here in 90b, I tagged out with two big Toms in the first week of the spring hunt (one was pushing 24lbs), and saw plenty of hens and jakes. I also saw deer every time I went out, the one day it was 7 healthy does. I haven't found a single deer killed by the winter in our area either.....My trailcams at the salt licks are showing does with twins as well.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Goose smasher
The reason your not seeing many deer at night right now is because of there recent birthing of fawns....they stay secluded for the first bit and then you will start to see more and more by summers end.....there is still tons of deer in unit 90 and no extra tags at all doesn't make sense to me....
This is what i found on the regulations Party Hunting and it included the control hunt.
The hunter must have a control hunt validation tag for the area.
A person may hunt moose, deer or black bear in a party even
if the person has previously attached his or her game seal to
a moose, deer or black bear. A person may also hunt elk in
a party with some restrictions in addition to the conditions
listed below - see page 53 for more information on Modified
Party Hunting for Elk. The term “Party Hunting” means two
or more persons hunting during an open season for moose,
elk, deer or black bear under all of the following conditions:
• Each person has a valid licence to hunt the big game
species being hunted.
• The total number of moose, elk, deer or black bear killed
by the party does not exceed the total number of game
seals held by the members of the party licensed to hunt
that species.
• The total number of moose, elk, deer or black bear of
a specified sex, age or type killed by the party does not
exceed the total number of game seals validated for that
sex, age, or type that are held by members of the party.
• All members of the party hunt together in the same
Wildlife Management Unit or portion thereof for which
the game seal is valid.
• Each member of the party hunts within five kilometres of
the person who holds the game seal that is valid for the
wildlife being hunted.
• Each member of the party must be able to reliably and
immediately communicate with other members of the
party.
• All members of the party, including the person who
holds the seal that is valid for the wildlife that the party
is hunting, actively participate in the hunt and hunt
co-operatively.
The person who kills the wildlife while hunting in a party
shall immediately notify all other members of the party that
the wildlife has been killed and the game seal holder shall
immediately affix the game seal to the wildlife in the manner
indicated in the instructions accompanying the game seal.
At this point, you and your party members at the kill site must
determine the category of animals that may still be hunted.
You must then make sure your other party members, who
did not come to the kill site, are informed. The hunter in your
party who killed the animal and the hunter who attached the
game seal may continue hunting provided other members of
your party possess valid, unused game seals for the wildlife
being hunted.
If you have questions about party hunting, the best time to
get answers is before the hunt begins. Contact a conservation
officer at the ministry office in the district in which you will
be hunting. A list of ministry offices and phone numbers is
found on page 88.
This is what i found on the regulations Party Hunting and it included the control hunt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkman
The hunter must have a control hunt validation tag for the area.
A person may hunt moose, deer or black bear in a party even
if the person has previously attached his or her game seal to
a moose, deer or black bear. A person may also hunt elk in
a party with some restrictions in addition to the conditions
listed below - see page 53 for more information on Modified
Party Hunting for Elk. The term “Party Hunting” means two
or more persons hunting during an open season for moose,
elk, deer or black bear under all of the following conditions:
• Each person has a valid licence to hunt the big game
species being hunted.
• The total number of moose, elk, deer or black bear killed
by the party does not exceed the total number of game
seals held by the members of the party licensed to hunt
that species.
• The total number of moose, elk, deer or black bear of
a specified sex, age or type killed by the party does not
exceed the total number of game seals validated for that
sex, age, or type that are held by members of the party.
• All members of the party hunt together in the same
Wildlife Management Unit or portion thereof for which
the game seal is valid.
• Each member of the party hunts within five kilometres of
the person who holds the game seal that is valid for the
wildlife being hunted.
• Each member of the party must be able to reliably and
immediately communicate with other members of the
party.
• All members of the party, including the person who
holds the seal that is valid for the wildlife that the party
is hunting, actively participate in the hunt and hunt
co-operatively.
The person who kills the wildlife while hunting in a party
shall immediately notify all other members of the party that
the wildlife has been killed and the game seal holder shall
immediately affix the game seal to the wildlife in the manner
indicated in the instructions accompanying the game seal.
At this point, you and your party members at the kill site must
determine the category of animals that may still be hunted.
You must then make sure your other party members, who
did not come to the kill site, are informed. The hunter in your
party who killed the animal and the hunter who attached the
game seal may continue hunting provided other members of
your party possess valid, unused game seals for the wildlife
being hunted.
If you have questions about party hunting, the best time to
get answers is before the hunt begins. Contact a conservation
officer at the ministry office in the district in which you will
be hunting. A list of ministry offices and phone numbers is
found on page 88.
I live and hunt in 92. I have seen more deer this year than I have ever seen before. It would appear the hard winter had zero effect on the population in my area. I had to brake to avoid hitting one this morning. It's not uncommon for me to see 10-20 deer in the fields on my drive home in the morning after working night shift. That being said 1 tag is enough for me.
THANK YOU.Quote:
Originally Posted by gunter
You have now answered your own question, but I will further clarify it for you at no extra charge. :)
There is a difference between regular party hunting and party hunting during CONTROLLED Hunts.
If you are party hunting during a CONTROLLED HUNT, then EVERY hunter in the group MUST have a CONTROLLED HUNT VALIDATION in order to legally participate in that group hunt.