On another note....My mutt's first foray into the wild - Chase

Well, the weather forecast was not to promising early in the week, but ended up to looking like great conditions for the grouse opener on Saturday. I got permission to hit one of my grouse partners best covets, and had high hopes as I had six flushes opening day two years ago, and had four flushes last year, all in a bout an hour.

At NAHVDA training sessions I worried about Chase roaming out way to far...for my liking...members suggested that getting a dog to roam out was difficult, so that was a good thing. Well in the bush, for the first 15min, the dog did not go more then fifteen yards from me, even with a lot of encouragement. I went hmmmm...now I know what they meant! Luckily, his outgoing personality got him to range further out, then further, then further, now I'm a worry wart again!

He had a great search drive, and paid no attention to going through the thick stuff, or self entering the ponds we circled. He also listened well to my 'this way' command. I was getting pleased and bit more relaxed. I had an e-collar and beeper on him, so that gave ME some reassurance.

All was going well.....you know where this is going....until he trotted off behind me, and I heard
his beeper getting fainter, and fainter....then not at all!

I Pulled out my trusty whistle, and gave it a bunch of double blows....nothing. Did it again with a nick to the ecollar...nothing. Crap...first day out I loose my dog!!!! So Walk in the direction I heard the beeper fade off into and started calling and whistling again. Nothing. Then I heard a couple of faint howls, and thought maybe he ran over to a cottage with a dog. I walked back to the main trail also thinking he may have went back to the car. Got to the trail and started calling and whistling.....then from the other side of the trail, here comes the mutt! A few 'good boys', and I called it a day. I also noticed his ecollar battery was dead. I think he may have heard me previously but got confused due to echo's in the woods and rocky outcrops. We were out about an hour anyway. I had walked 3kms so he must have done about six.

Lessons learned - Charge anything electronic and have spare batteries, turn the beeper up so I can hear him more than forty yards, save some money and get a gps collar, Get out my 1000 page grouse book and see where these yo yo's are this time of year! I heard if you lay your jacket down where you parked your car, for a lost dog, good chance he'll be laying on it the next morning?? All good things take time!

Well, duck opener on Saturday, I'll leave Chase at home for this one, till he's more use to the boat.

D.

P.S - didn't get a flush or even heard a flush. Very unusual. First time being fully skunked!

scary when you lose the dog...........about 10 years ago I took my shepherd shed hunting,,,,,,,,,,me and my buddy split up to widen the search,,,my shepherd kept running few hundred yards between us,,,,,,then I called my buddy on radio,,,,,,,,,is dog with you NO,,,,AFTER 10 anxious minutes he showed up,,,,,,,,,,,

For grouse hunting, I'm not sure you need to that much equipment.

You do need to teach your dog to respect you and come when called or whistled in. I think that is step 1 basic and I wouldn't bother keeping a dog that I can't get to do that - not even for a pet.

When you're hunting grouse, if he gets more than 35 yards out (or out of sight) call him in or have him stop so you can catch up to him. He's not doing any good if he is just running the bush.

if you guys get worried about the dog being gone for half a hour come and run with my hounds .thy get on a trail and thy are gone .just have to wait them out as thy will be back sometime .I can hear them for a country mile mayby that makes a difference .anyways dogs are smarter then you think and given time thy will come back .just sit down have a coffee and a smoke mayby even a snooze if thy get on a real runner .but when you hear them coming back better have the gun ready ..man I love hunting with hounds .Dutch

It sounds like your pup took a deer or rabbit. I run a Garmin Astro and a bell in addition to an ecollar. The Garmin is good insurance and for most hunting I just need the bell.
Also remember that this is your pups first season and he is learning proper bird cover and how to work birds, let him run at this stage hacking on a pointer to stay within 35yards isn't good unless you want a pointing flusher.
As long as he is working good cover and going with you even out of sight and you can find him on point thats the goal.
Don't forget to check your e collar on your self every time you put it on your dog.

It sounds like you got some good cover have fun this season and good luck!!!!

Unfortunately you made a very big mistake on how you used that e-collar. Your dog was out of site and not responding so you gave a correction? What if he was locked on point when you corrected him? If he was he will now associate the action of pointing a bird with a correction, not good. One of the first things you need to train your dog to is to come on command. The whistle is an excellent tool and quite easy to train a dog to. I normally hunt my dog with a quality bell and an e-collar that is set to beep only when he locks up on point. Not sure which unit you run but that will give you a good read on where your dog is as you hunt. Also my understanding of NAVHDA trained dogs is that they will hunt fur as well. Your pup may have just been doing just that, running a rabbit and got corrected for it. Again how you use your e-collar needs to be reconsidered.
It sounds like you are a candidate for a Garmin Astro. I have the 320 but truthfully use it rarely now only in very large areas where we aren't too familiar with as my dog doesn't run fur and the beeper function on mt Dogtra 2500 T&B collar has a locate button and I can keep a good read on where he is working. If you do buy the Garmin be aware that it is not approved for use up here and if you do any online updates to it's firmware it will be rendered disabled and useless, so beware.

A few clarifications LOL!

The ecollar was dead, so he did not get nicked while on point etc. He was never 'taught' hunt fur, to blood track, or track period (not needed, although he may have a natural desire to do so). I think the dips and valleys may have confused where I was exactly, so he may have been looking for me(?) until I walked over an outcrop and down to the trail. He does come back on the whistle, unwittingly proved that at navhda training (only been to two sessions). I use an ecollar and beeper with the hawk screech when on point, or taking a cr..p.

I will review the comeback on whistle command with him, and turn the beeper up, and keep him within a hundred yards. Tough in the covets I hunt, as the terrain is highly varied elevation wise, so he out of site a lot of the time.

Lots of things to work on though!

D.

Sorry, I was under the impression that he was a NAVHDA trained dog. A quality bell is very simple and useful. It is a relatively inoffensive sound compared to the beeping of an ecollar and makes your day more peaceful...LoL. I can't over emphasize the utility of a whistle trained dog. I think that your dog is actually rarely near 100 yds out just working thick cover just out of sight and hearing shot from you. 100 yds in thick cover is quite far. I trained my extremely stubborn,alpha,high prey drive Brittany to the whistle in no time at all. All it took was a pkg of cheap weiners to use as a reward and he was whistle broke, easiest command to teach I found.

Don - when he wonders away, give him a beep and hide from him. Let him start using his nose to find you, or - let him panic and watch him running around looking for you. Do this on all your walks, until you see him turning his head and checking on you. My Maxi keeps an eye on me all the time - he knows i "might get lost".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Grasu200

Don - when he wonders away, give him a beep and hide from him. Let him start using his nose to find you, or - let him panic and watch him running around looking for you. Do this on all your walks, until you see him turning his head and checking on you. My Maxi keeps an eye on me all the time - he knows i "might get lost".

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Great advice
That's how i trained my lab

'All it took was a pkg of cheap wieners to use as a reward and he was whistle broke, easiest command to teach I found'

Good idea! And if I get lost, we can fight over the scraps till daylight arrives!

'Don - when he wonders away, give him a beep and hide from him. Let him start using his nose to find you, or - let him panic and watch him running around looking for you. Do this on all your walks, until you see him turning his head and checking on you. My Maxi keeps an eye on me all the time - he knows i "might get lost".'

Another good idea!

terrym, this is my mutt I brought back from Boise, on my other threads. He does like to roam out naturally. I walked about fifty yards to the trail, and he was at least another thirty or so on the other side. I hear it's easier to reel them in, then get them to roam out. Only our first grouse hunt so we both have much to learn! He's seven months old.

Thanks,

Don.

I've found that when my dog "disappears disobediently", I am the only one worried ; the dog isn't lost and knows exactly where I am.:)
,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Last week I "lost" my dog . Kept beeping and heard nothing. Went back to the parking lot to wait. 1/2 hour later a guy approaches the parking lot with my dog on a leash. He thought the dog was lost; he said he had to hear that $%^& beeper for 1/2 hour. :)

The dog was mad as she was enjoying her no- permission given run.(At 13 1/2 years old it's not likely I am going to give her trouble.)LOL

Have you checked out those amazing gps collars. What a fantastic way to keep tabs on hunting dogs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trkyhntr21

It sounds like your pup took a deer or rabbit. I run a Garmin Astro and a bell in addition to an ecollar. The Garmin is good insurance and for most hunting I just need the bell.
Also remember that this is your pups first season and he is learning proper bird cover and how to work birds, let him run at this stage hacking on a pointer to stay within 35yards isn't good unless you want a pointing flusher.
As long as he is working good cover and going with you even out of sight and you can find him on point thats the goal.
Don't forget to check your e collar on your self every time you put it on your dog.

It sounds like you got some good cover have fun this season and good luck!!!!

---

x2


I agree it sounds like he took a deer or a rabbit. If your PP is bred right, and from your earlier posts it sounds like he is, you won't have to teach him to hunt fur he will do that on his own. If he is out hunting and a rabbit or deer gets up in front of him he is probably going to go with it. You just need to make the decision on what game you want him to hunt and what you want to break him of.


As far as using the ecollar when the dog is out of sight, we wouldn't get much training done in the woods if we didn't do that. The trick is to use a bell so you know what the dog is doing. A bell gives a constant read on a dog so you can tell if he is stopped or moving. With experience the bell can tell you if the dog is hunting, chasing a deer, or has stopped. If you hear that bell start to fade, it's time to get on him. Set a distance on your dog that you are comfortable with. If that distance is 100yds then when that dog gets to 60 yds you need to start handling him to get him to turn. If you wait until the dog is at the limit you won't get him turned in time and he will get out of the "pocket" (between 10 and 2). A beeper is good for finding a dog but not handling, a dog can travel quite a distance in 5 seconds.


I would look at a quality Sunkaze (Flewelling) Bell in any of the finishes.


http://www.gundogsupply.com/medium-nickel-bell.html


I believe Tim Tufts has them from time to time as well.


It always takes young dogs some time to get accustomed to the sound in the woods but they figure it out soon enough.


If this is his first season in the woods I would look at getting him into some woodcock. Young dogs have a a much higher chance of success on them than grouse. It will also let him know that you are hunting birds and he will start looking for them. If you continue to take him grouse hunting and only find rabbits and deer he will probably start hunting them especially since he is a versatile dog.


Before you start the hunt come up with a routine for taking him out of the truck in a controlled manner and make him do something like heel around the parking lot or whatever. You should be able to open the door of the crate and he doesn't come out until you give the command. The idea is to get inside his head, get him thinking about you as well as his training and set the tone of the hunt. He has a job to do, this isn't fun time, it's time focus and go to work.



My dogs always have a bell, e-collar and garmin on when I run them except during competition.

How old is this dog now?

He's seven months old.

All good food for thought!

D.

From the title of your thread I can only assume that your dog is less than a year old and that the 2014-2015 season will be his or she's first. If I could offer my opinion it would be:

Just allow the dog to have fun and let it get used to running in heavy bush with you out of sight. When most of us train our dogs it would be in some form of a low cut field with planted birds, allowing for he or she to see us at almost all times.

I run my dogs with a bell, e-collar and beeper. With time I have been able to recognize when my dog is working for scent or chasing rabbits, deer or what ever else they may choose. I gauge it by how much the bell is ringing

But if your dog is not recalling properly with the whistle then the next option would to be a light nick on he or she. I believe that this is the purpose of the collar. I also found that relaxing and letting the dog work within my boundaries allows us to both have a great time in the bush. Good luck with your season and remember to have fun

NAVHDA does use tracking for testing in both NA and UT. Blood tracking is not practiced with this organization

After my dog wrecking every cheap bell I bought I ended up buying one from Tim Tufts as recommended above. This thing will outlast the dog unless I lose it. Money well spent.

At 7 months I don't have many rules for a dog.

Don't run off
Come when called
no chasing off game.

Other than that I let them do whatever they want and just be a dog. There are no rules around birds at this age, they can bump, chase, rip em up, bark or do whatever I don't care. If they find a bird I do my best to kill it for them.

[QUOTE=Jakezilla;824251]x2


I agree it sounds like he took a deer or a rabbit. If your PP is bred right, and from your earlier posts it sounds like he is, you won't have to teach him to hunt fur he will do that on his own. If he is out hunting and a rabbit or deer gets up in front of him he is probably going to go with it. You just need to make the decision on what game you want him to hunt and what you want to break him of.


As far as using the ecollar when the dog is out of sight, we wouldn't get much training done in the woods if we didn't do that. The trick is to use a bell so you know what the dog is doing. A bell gives a constant read on a dog so you can tell if he is stopped or moving. With experience the bell can tell you if the dog is hunting, chasing a deer, or has stopped. If you hear that bell start to fade, it's time to get on him. Set a distance on your dog that you are comfortable with. If that distance is 100yds then when that dog gets to 60 yds you need to start handling him to get him to turn. If you wait until the dog is at the limit you won't get him turned in time and he will get out of the "pocket" (between 10 and 2). A beeper is good for finding a dog but not handling, a dog can travel quite a distance in 5 seconds.


I would look at a quality Sunkaze (Flewelling) Bell in any of the finishes.


http://www.gundogsupply.com/medium-nickel-bell.html


I believe Tim Tufts has them from time to time as well. " Quote Jakezilla

....................................

One of the best posts I've ever read on the use of the bell.

Hey Don, as stressful as it was , I wouldn't get over concerned unless it happens frequently .
Jasper ranged out a few times WAY to far.
I tried hiding yet he easily found me and showed no fear of being alone. What did help was a high quality bell in the thick stuff. Many times he was not as far off as I thought. And as painful as it was , more than a few times he was leashed and the hunt was immediately over. That one hit home with him and worked big time .
R

I think everyone has that "Oh, no, I lost the dog" moment in the first season. It's part of the learning process for the dog.

Last season, I actually did lose the dog. Shot a pheasant which fell in thick cover at the bottom of a little draw where I couldn't see. Sent the dog and she barged on in. I waited. And waited. Went and looked, no pheasant, no dog. I'd wingtipped it and she took off after the runner, which apparently went some distance into the woods. Whistled. Waited. Whistled. Waited. Whistled. Contemplated explaining to the kids I'd lost the dog ... whistled, yelled.

After some time I heard a mournful howl from about 200 yards behind me, back in the marsh. The dog was back there contemplating how she'd explain to the kids that she'd lost me, given the language barrier and all. I yelled, she howled, and she found her way back.

I'd like to tell you she brought back the bird, but no. It gave her the slip and she'd got lost trying to hunt it up. But I did learn that I don't really have to worry about losing my dog. If she gets lost she'll call for help.

Now that's a bonus! :)