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Well with the MNR more worried about caribou reintroduction rather then moose numbers we are stuck with no tags this season.Whats the chance i can make it 14 moose in 14 yrs with a calf only to shoot for? Any takers on a lil bet? Cheers all hope you have a great hunt stay warm stay safe and most of all enjoy your company and suck in the outdoors.
Good luck
And just a note; its not caribou re-introduction. They were never extirpated. They are however a species at risk.
Yes they will distroy the rest of the province's moose hunting for one area they want more moose killed...why not give out free tags to them areas and leave the rest alone..MNR continues to destroy our resources I am a trapper hunter and fisherman and I for one think they do far more bad then good...Hell i havent seen a warden in 13 hunting seasons in this area..Its sad.I have seen so many moose this yr but we are down 93% in tags when there count was only down 50 % and we know they did a poor count job.As I see moose every day while trapping the hwy culverts..had a bull and cow standing in my front lawn last friday when I put the kids on bus.Cheers hope to se yha in the bush.. sorry for the mnr whinning i just cant help myself seeing our dollars wasted...
Out west the moose and caribou all live in the same spots why do they think they wont co exsist in the same area here...Just like deer n moose i can look on one side of my 230 acres see a moose look on the other see a deer, or looking threw my bino's a cpl yrs ago watching a huge buck at 603 yrds and he mounts one of the 6 does he is with then out of nowhere comes walking a bull moose he walks right by them all.He then crossed a crk walked to the very limit of my 1500yrd range finder and jumped a cow at 900yrds with the deer a mere 200-300yrds away..seems they co exsist here just fine.Anyhow i am off to the bush, safe travels to all and the best of luck in your 2014 season.
As I understand its not that they cant co-exist, its that the hope is moose levels dropping will force wolves out of the area, thus aiding the caribou.
Anywho, the moose population in my area has been going up up UP. 50 years ago there was nary a moose around, now it seems theres more moose then deer around my parts. MNR has done a marvelous job here, at least.
Good luck on the moose hunt Steve
Yes there are more moose showing up in the Muskoka to North Bay area. We've had a few bad winters which can affect the deer but benefit the moose. Problem is that you need 50 guys for a tag. In the areas way up north and where the caribou roam along the north shore of Superior the MNR has totally dropped the ball! These are the areas where the local economies could use the cash input that higher game densities would bring. If this whole master plan to reduce the moose herd to decrease the wolf predation to allow the caribou to return plays out ... then to me it seems the entire plan is to reduce the wolf population ????DUH??? Why in the h#ll did they remove the wolf from the small game licence and create a wolf licence on its own??? and of course a 2 wolf limit???Quote:
Originally Posted by blasted_saber
Alberta announced last year a wolf cull of 6,000 per yr for the next 10 years. And they're trying to keep every moose/elk/caribou they can. AND the caribou will get instant help in the very first yr. How low will our caribou herd get before our goofy plan finally hits rock bottom. AND OF COURSE how many DECADES before the moose herd rebounds!
If your moose population in Muskoka went up it went up in spite of MNR involvement! Also the Muskoka moose really have no predators YET! those little 100lb Algonquin wolves usually prey on deer/beavers etc. It's only a matter of time before those big 180lb northern wolves migrate down to complete the cycle of life. THEN WHAT MNR will cull all the moose to get rid of the wolves! AGAIN
I think they want to keep the wolf numbers as high as they can for as long as they can while giving out as many moose tags as they can (basically a slow cull). The plan would keep moose numbers low for a few years while the wolves would starve themselves off and leave the area, resulting in a crash of the wolf population. This will give the caribou a few generations to increase exponentially in numbers... but we all know nature doesn't work like that. Essentially they're accomplishing next to nothing in the long run and everything will reach its balance again.
The dumbest thing about it all is, the moose numbers are going to go back up once they stop handing out tags or people realize the hunting is getting bad, and the wolf population is going to take an enormously huge swing upwards with it. When that happens, they're going to be facing the same problem with the caribou if not worse. I say let nature take its course on the caribou or remove the predators. I'm sure there are a few Americans south of the border that wouldn't mind coming up for a wolf hunt if they didn't have to pay $269.58 per wolf tag PLUS $118.11 for a small game licence.
RIGHT ON! Our grandsfathers knew the cure! Back then all predators from wolves to bears to hawks and owls were fair game 24/7!Quote:
Originally Posted by x_xeon_x
Some of the meat poles back then could hardly hold all the game. Rabbits/jackrabbits/pheasants all over the place! And most of these game populations flourished with minimal management! Then along came big brother gov't with their newly educated biologists and of course they seen the profits they could extract from increasing licence fees and having separate licences for everything that walks or flies.
Pretty sad! I've got a 2 yr old grandson that will just have to sit on my lap and hear about how good it used to be! Hey maybe by the time he's 40 the moose population might be huntable again.
I bet in 40 yrs the caribou population will be stable and then they'll cull the caribou trying to save the moose!
It seems obvious that everything is cyclical even gov't decisions. HAH!
Do you think that the # of hunters now, as compared to the past might have something to do with it? In the past people who lived on the land, hunted to eat, only the very rich went to lodges to hunt for sport. In pictures from the past, I have seen a lot of poles with a dozen muskies\ sturgeon on them, how did that work out? P.S. I have been on a lake in the Kawarthas for 38 years, and the fishing has never been better.:goodstuff:
GOOD POINTS! But back in the day I think everyone hunted at one time or another. One thing that has changed game numbers is farming practices. Todays larger farms, better combines, bigger fields, chemicals, and the multitudes of hawks/owls and now coyotes has changed the small game landscape. Even down here in Niagara the MNR can't really get a good handle on deer numbers. WMU 89 goes from too many to too few ???? Our winters are mild so management techniques only dealing with harvests should be simple - you'd think! BUT the perfect management formulae still eludes them! The last meeting with the MNR they stated everything they do is from hunter surveys! DUH? OK so lets move north to where there's seemingly endless forest, more elusive animals, winter kill, larger predators (bears - wolves) get the picture? We might not be able to control winter kill BUT predators are controllable and are being protected. ????? and for what reason? We'll never be able to eliminate ALL the predators and we shouldn't BUT this path we're going down is all downhill. When deer/moose numbers go up so does hunter participation and licences. When predator #'s go up seems everything suffers.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
And yes I agree our fishing outlooks are going up! The slot sizing regulations are working great! BUT it's easy to manage a lake which is a controlled size. I remember fishing 30 yrs ago and you kept everything you caught and limits were hard to fill. Now the complaints are everyone's catching lots of fish and you can catch a limit but you have to leave lots behind. Sounds like a guy with millions in RRSP's. Complains about paying the tax. GOOD PROBLEM TO HAVE!
The type of big game management the province is using,now,despite the claims that hunter input is vital,rings pretty hollow when it's blatantly obvious that the system is geared to limiting harvest opportunities through skewed inventory surveys while rigging the system to keep revenues from license sales up. I realize this sounds pretty cynical,but,I believe that if the government was open,honest and honorable,the spring Bear hunt would have been re-instated,long ago,big game surveys would have much more far-reaching,accurate and complete,varmint/predator licensing would never have happened and exclusions zones for Wolves/Coyotes would have been cancelled once the scientific studies data by the students at U of T was published (vis-a-vis Wolf hybrids around Algonquin Park) which proved to be minimal and inconsequential,at best.
well said trimmer! I hunt often in those wolf closed townships around Algonquin Park. The tree huggers are trying so save those little vocal eastern wolves because they're numbers are going down. Logging has been pretty well stopped in the park and because of logging in those perimeter townships there is good game populations...hence the wolves are leaving the sanctuary of the park and following the deer/beavers. Here's where it gets better. As the moose population goes up it's just a matter of time before the big greys start showing up. When they do those eastern wolves will be in trouble! Just seen a documentary on the grey wolves that were re-introduced to Yellowstone Park. Seems the coyote population is taking a beating. Those wolves kill every coyote they can!Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
Oh well just waiting for the thanksgiving dinner tonight and just feel like debating.
We just got back from our WMU19 moose hunt we got 1 bull ... but our moose encounters - sightings/answers were pretty dismal.
If there's no one in the audience it doesn't matter how good the singer is!
Like everything else in this world, there are very few honest enough people to have the integrity to admit the failure of their ways and instigate another course of action right away.
MNR's plans for Caribou are ridiculous and the only people that I know who support them are employed by the MNR. Kill off the Moose to reduce the wolf population, LMAO.
BTW Madtrapper, good luck bro....
I have lots to say on the topic but the one thing that rings true is history repeats its self and this sounds a lot like kill off the Buffalo to kill off the natives - its was deplorable then and is now (and i am not comparing wildlife to human life).
If you want balance in a system you do what you can to balance the equation not try to unbalance the equation until you put one species at risk. Wolf tags aren't expensive but are limited at 2 this in its self limits the effect we as hunters can have in this area. I realize it is difficult to encourage predator hunting but MNR should be looking into it and lowering restrictions in the areas of concern...no tag requirements back to small game license only and no limit.
Wolves represent true wilderness to me and I would never want to put their numbers at risk but harvesting wolves directly is a good means of control and balancing a system. In terms of eastern wolves I hunt one of the few areas not far from the park where you may hunt them and have already picked up my tag...we are seeing a number of them every year and they are having an impact on the properties we hunt. I take a lot of joy in seeing them but not too many of them too close to camp - it may be selfish but I put myself in the equation as a competing predator even if I am only a part time resident in the bush.
I have lots more to say but in a nut shell that's my two cents...FB
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisherboy
Good post. It sure sounds reasonable to me.